Heavy armor templars and heavy armor in general. A thread about balance in cyrodil.

attackjet · October 2016

Obviously a strong opinion oriented discussion, we need balance in this game, and I would love to hear what people have to say.

Heavy armor templars are too overpowered in cyrodil, and heavy armor in general. As a nightblade, it seems that these builds are just plain indestructible and do a lot of damage on top of the survivability. And on top of survivability and DPS, they have great sustain.

So why is this, zenimax? It almost seems as if you try to make metas. This definetly isn't the first time we've seen 2/3's of everyone in cyrodil running almost identical builds. And this takes out so much from the game, I want to be a stamina medium armor nightblade, but its just so week against heavy armor.

Also, why can you block from behind? Like seriously this is probably the dumbest mechanic ever.

Am I right? Am I wrong? Please let me know what you think.

Firerock2 · October 2016

Maybe I built my Templar tank wrong, but I can't do a lot of damage on mine if I build for survivability. I'd like to see some clips of these Templars in heavy armor that do a crap ton of dps and survive for so long.

hrothbern · October 2016

attackjet wrote: »

Obviously a strong opinion oriented discussion, we need balance in this game, and I would love to hear what people have to say.

Heavy armor templars are too overpowered in cyrodil, and heavy armor in general. As a nightblade, it seems that these builds are just plain indestructible and do a lot of damage on top of the survivability. And on top of survivability and DPS, they have great sustain.

So why is this, zenimax? It almost seems as if you try to make metas. This definetly isn't the first time we've seen 2/3's of everyone in cyrodil running almost identical builds. And this takes out so much from the game, I want to be a stamina medium armor nightblade, but its just so week against heavy armor.

Also, why can you block from behind? Like seriously this is probably the dumbest mechanic ever.

Am I right? Am I wrong? Please let me know what you think.

@attackjet
It does matter how many CP you have.
how many do you have ?

catalyst10e · October 2016

The reason given to us, as to why mag Sorc's shields were nerfed was because ZOS felt players should be expected to choose between being "tanky" and dealing damage. Claiming the shields allowed for both and needed a change. Yet here we see Templars able to tank and DPS in the exact same way.

I'm constantly seeing 2 man Templar teams or Templar and DK teams just wreck full groups because they can't be burst down. It's most of the heavy armor users that run Black rose + malubeth who get away with it.

attackjet · October 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

The reason given to us, as to why mag Sorc's shields were nerfed was because ZOS felt players should be expected to choose between being "tanky" and dealing damage. Claiming the shields allowed for both and needed a change. Yet here we see Templars able to tank and DPS in the exact same way.

I'm constantly seeing 2 man Templar teams or Templar and DK teams just wreck full groups because they can't be burst down. It's most of the heavy armor users that run Black rose + malubeth who get away with it.

So true. And guy up there I'm capped at 531.

Legitimately every one in cyrodil is a heavy armor templar or heavy armor build....
Its just getting annoying

Firerock2 · October 2016

Can I see some examples?

Dubhliam · October 2016

This is not to blame on Heavy Armor in general.

You should concentrate your hate on Black Rose.
It seriously needs some nerfs. In my opinion, it should definitely lose the damage bonus, and maybe even have the Constitution bonus reduced.

attackjet · October 2016

Firerock2 wrote: »

Can I see some examples?

Go to cyrodiil.

Firerock2 · October 2016

Yes, the constitution buff on black rose of 260 more regen is OP. It makes Templars unkillable gods that can decimate entire zergs. At least, that's what I hear. I still haven't seen any actual proof but I'll take the Magicka Nightblade's word for it, he seems like a reliable source.

attackjet wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Can I see some examples?

Go to cyrodiil.

I go there almost everyday and I see Templar tanks that can't kill anything. I laugh off their damage. I'm not saying the mythical and ever elusive Templar god does not exist, I just have yet to see it.

mr_wazzabi · October 2016

attackjet wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

The reason given to us, as to why mag Sorc's shields were nerfed was because ZOS felt players should be expected to choose between being "tanky" and dealing damage. Claiming the shields allowed for both and needed a change. Yet here we see Templars able to tank and DPS in the exact same way.

I'm constantly seeing 2 man Templar teams or Templar and DK teams just wreck full groups because they can't be burst down. It's most of the heavy armor users that run Black rose + malubeth who get away with it.

So true. And guy up there I'm capped at 531.

Legitimately every one in cyrodil is a heavy armor templar or heavy armor build....
Its just getting annoying

Gonna try a heavy armour magicka nb. I'll let u know how it goes

Firerock2 · October 2016

These are some great examples guys! Keep it up, we'll get heavy armor nerfed in no time. Bring the TTK back to 1 second!

attackjet · October 2016

Firerock2 wrote: »

These are some great examples guys! Keep it up, we'll get heavy armor nerfed in no time. Bring the TTK back to 1 second!

What do you mean by examples? You want me to make a templar or find one and break down exactly how there build works with ability's, armor, pots and traits?

Sorry I don't have that much time. If you are not going to be productive in this discussion and simply be rude than just please leave

Firerock2 · October 2016

attackjet wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

These are some great examples guys! Keep it up, we'll get heavy armor nerfed in no time. Bring the TTK back to 1 second!

What do you mean by examples? You want me to make a templar or find one and break down exactly how there build works with ability's, armor, pots and traits?

Sorry I don't have that much time. If you are not going to be productive in this discussion and simply be rude than just please leave

Aye lads, I've seen it with me own eyes. It came in the middle o' the night and slaughtered everyone of us including the women and children. We did what we could but our blades bounced off him like they were sticks. Nothing could stand in its way; we all died that night!

I forgot to record it though so you'll just have to trust me that Heavy Armor Magicka Nightblades are OP and can kill entire zergs. NERF MAGNB!

BTW I am being productive, I'm criticizing you for not showing any evidence. I really want to see what you are talking about. I don't see how you can make a thread saying a class should be nerfed when you can't provide any reasonable proof that one class is outperforming all the others. You could just be bad at this game and angry because a Heavy Armor Templar killed you.

Sigtric · October 2016

I'm completely fine with this, having both a burst dps stamblade and a heavy Templar.

You want to kill everything and because you can't it's unfair.

My Templar can stand there solo, toe to toe vs 6 and last long enough to make them all really Salty, he can also get ganked in a split second. Depends on the skill of those trying to kill him + the situation.

On my NB I don't fuss with the obviously hard to kill targets. I'm not meant to kill them, I'm meant to take out other squishy damage dealers.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · October 2016

I think this is just the classic COD mentality that has plagued this game for a long time. People HATE tanks in PvP. If you can't burst something down and 360 no-scope, you get mad and ignore the other reasons why you died.

People seem to have no problem with NB's 2shotting people or proccing 3 different sets with a light attack but got forbid if someone builds for tankiness.

It was the same people that got bolt escape nerfed back in the day because they felt it was their talos-given right to either kill or be killed in every fight. It seems more frustrating to people to not be able to kill someone because they cant DPS, catch, or find them than it is to be two shot.

again, if this supertank highDPS templar exists, please enlighten us. Black rose + the spell penetration set maybe? Still seems like your magicka pool and damage would be low, and still not as tanky and no where near as deadly as the comparable stamina build wearing black rose malubeth and using vitality pots with vigor.

Minno · October 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I think this is just the classic COD mentality that has plagued this game for a long time. People HATE tanks in PvP. If you can burst something down, you get mad and ignore the other reasons why you died.

People seem to have no problem with NB's 2shotting people or proccing 3 different sets with a light attack but got forbid if someone builds for tankiness.

It was the same people that got bolt escape nerfed back in the day because they felt it was their talos-given right to either kill or be killed in every fight. It seems more frustrating to people to not be able to kill someone because they cant DPS, catch, or find them than it is to be two shot.

again, if this supertank highDPS templar exists, please enlighten us. Black rose + the spell penetration set maybe? Still seems like your magicka pool and damage would be low.

The burst meta can't complain, zos literally added ways to potential negate impen, negate armor, and zap your healing. You just have to grind in pve first

Sigtric · October 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I think this is just the classic COD mentality that has plagued this game for a long time. People HATE tanks in PvP. If you can't burst something down and 360 no-scope, you get mad and ignore the other reasons why you died.

People seem to have no problem with NB's 2shotting people or proccing 3 different sets with a light attack but got forbid if someone builds for tankiness.

It was the same people that got bolt escape nerfed back in the day because they felt it was their talos-given right to either kill or be killed in every fight. It seems more frustrating to people to not be able to kill someone because they cant DPS, catch, or find them than it is to be two shot.

again, if this supertank highDPS templar exists, please enlighten us. Black rose + the spell penetration set maybe? Still seems like your magicka pool and damage would be low, and still not as tanky and no where near as deadly as the comparable stamina build wearing black rose malubeth and using vitality pots with vigor.

QFT

This is exactly it

SublimeSparo · October 2016

I want to be a light armour wearing mage but it's just too weak against a medoum armour nb's burst.
Also why does fear even work at all let alone through block? nb's are not scary.
9/10's of nb are running viper velidreth etc so to avoid being instagibbed people resort to heavy armour

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

PVP will never be ballanced. Your attempts to try are futile.

akredon_ESO · October 2016

I have been running around with maxed out befoul and reverb bash and poisons. lets just say them templar tanks aint so tanky with out their heals....

Cazic · October 2016

I dunno. I've played heavy armor before and after they updated it, switched between med and heavy a coiple times on my DK.

Heavy can make someone seem pretty indestructible but the damage output is definitely not there compared to a medium armor stam build.

MalakithAlamahdi · October 2016

They are fine, i died to a sorc yesterday that did 6.5k rapid strikes against me, i didn't really feel like the god people think it makes you. Black rose doesn't turn you into a god, and heavy armor doesn't either. Your damage is also a lot lower in HA, weather you claim it isn't or not.

Lutallo · October 2016

Just because you can't immediately burst down someone with a cheesy 4k weapon damage NB build, doesn't mean they need nerfing.

Please direct me toward this build that is "plain indestructible and do a lot of damage on top of the survivability. And on top of survivability and DPS, they have great sustain".

All heavy armour templars I see hit like wet noodles and can't sustain. They have no spell penetration and without the light armour passives they have no regen. Plus, magplars can't sustain stamina either. Even if they have black rose, they will have 0 magicka and spell damage buffs so they will do almost no damage.

SublimeSparo · October 2016

akredon_ESO wrote: »

I have been running around with maxed out befoul and reverb bash and poisons. lets just say them templar tanks aint so tanky with out their heals....

Unfortunately it's really hard to press whatever button extended ritual is on, removing said debuffs, applying a hot and granting major mending, as well as snaring you.

ArchMikem · October 2016

And here I am with a Light Armor Templar...

KingYogi415 · October 2016

The only people who complain about the meta are bad players.

Learn to use fear or root!

SnubbS · October 2016

Heavy Armor is the problem -- not blackrose. Heavy needs a nerf in the worst kind of way -- and I main a Heavy Armor StamDK.

Waseem · October 2016

its not heavy armor fault
people must start using elemental drain/pierce armor/mark target skills
and wear alkosh/sunderflame/nightmother
and use defile/maim/resistance debuffs
and use crusher infused enchant
and war horn rotation
in order to kill some tanks who output crazy damage in cyrodiil
people must L2P

Cazic · October 2016

SnubbS wrote: »

Heavy Armor is the problem -- not blackrose. Heavy needs a nerf in the worst kind of way -- and I main a Heavy Armor StamDK.

Why?

I run as HA stam DK with black rose and it's awesome, but it's not OP. Its powerful, but not anymore than it should be. Someone with enough skill and dps can counter it.

WillhelmBlack · October 2016

I have a 10 page thread on it. 90% don't have a problem with Templars having everything.

jrgray93 · October 2016

I take it I killed you?