I've been exposed.....I really like the gear system, gear trading, relevant drops in dungeons etc, but I still think these two traits have little to add to the game. No I don't want BiS gear in two days, but something that would benefit us more. Heck even a visual trait that makes you glow purple would be more beneficial than training for me.

However, thanks for showing data and being transparent about what's going on. This is leadership that we need, data, not emotions (like my own). But hey, it was a funny video right?

I like eso

cjthibs wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe the RNG is seeded per players, and some players just get really bad RNG seeding.

No, it's not.
It's just that the negative reaction of working for something and being disappointed tends to stick with us.

Jep

and that's also the reason that people with less tensed expectations feel more lucky.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ZOS is all of this intended, in regards to loot distribution of traits?

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

OP - would it be possible for you to post your actual data, please? Just the traits - I'd be interested in doing some statistics to see what the true figures are - accounting for error.

He is just lying. There is no possible way that with 500 keys he got 80% training and prosperous, not even remotly close.

Very much so possible, and a lot more common than you would imagine. RNG in ESO is not exactly as friendly and generous as you'd imagine. Case and point, look at VMA. People with over 800 runs, and never seen an inferno staff. Though that's a different loot table all in of itself, the fact still remains that the current state that ZOS is using for RNG is garbage.

false again, no one with 800 ma runs have never seen dropped an inferno staff.

Lmao. Do you truly believe that? Do you really? Do you know how many people have quit ESO due to running VMA hundreds of times and not even seeing certain types of weapons...? Go do some digging around here on the forums, or just ask around.

Here's a tip, bruh. They ONLY made having a guaranteed drop on the final chest come around with the SotH DLC, while VMA has been out since the Wrothgar DLC. Even when they supposedly buffed the weapon drop rates in the chest to 50%, it actually felt quite more like 10%. As the amount of rings people got in the last chest was ridiculous. Robust Succession rings anybody?

DIgging around the forums will show me nothing but baseless claims from frustrated players like you. I've experience Rng myself, I got code trait distribution, and there is nothing that would make me incline to think that Zos is purposely tempering the trait drop chances. So come here with proof or GTFO

The only "proof" would be a developer response, giving us specifics. They have been asked several times to comment if the traits are in fact evenly distributed in the loot table, because most of us believe they are not. No it is not conclusive, but I am going to take silence on their part as confirmation of our suspicions. Otherwise, why not just say they are the same across the board to stop the debate in it's tracks.

What we are left with is using circumstantial evidence to draw conclusions. We have posts from streamers like deltia opening 250 keys and getting 200 (80% drop) of one of these two terrible traits, which is powerful evidence that there is a problem. As for VMA, I generally have a hard time believing anyone that says they have done 800 runs, but like it or not, there are people that have. Gilliam and StreakOne, two of the best DPS PC/NA, have VMA have horror stories. At last update, I think Gilliam was on 300+ runs without the dagger he is after, and Streak finally got a Sharp inferno a few days ago. He has also done hundreds and hundreds of runs. You dont learn to clear that place in 30 minutes without doing hundreds of runs.

I am glad you like to troll, but I see no rationale in defending a broken system.

You seriously thought Zos would rig trait distribution LMAO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

The drop rates are the same as on PTS and they are all equally weighted. Couple quick charts cause I know everyone loves them.

Undaunted Chest results since OneTamriel went live. (NA PC only for time)



...and seeing as @Deltia and his video was called out, here's exactly his breakdown over his 250 keys in the video.


Yeah RNG wasn't kind on the Divines or Training rolls for him, but he got a lot more impen and infused than normal.

Ooo graphs! I love graphs, nice stuff there Rich...

For reference in regards to Deltia's 250 keys and bad luck I believe the amount of Training and Divines traits he received works out to around 3 standard deviations if I did the math right. Which means that he got really unlucky...around 99.7% of time you would get better distribution that this. While 0.3% may seem like a small number in a game of potentially millions of players that is 1000s of players getting "unlucky" like this. On the other hand there are also players getting very "lucky" by receiving more Divine traits than others (and damn you all whoever you are).

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

The drop rates are the same as on PTS and they are all equally weighted. Couple quick charts cause I know everyone loves them.

Undaunted Chest results since OneTamriel went live. (NA PC only for time)



...and seeing as @Deltia and his video was called out, here's exactly his breakdown over his 250 keys in the video.


Yeah RNG wasn't kind on the Divines or Training rolls for him, but he got a lot more impen and infused than normal.

Thank you for coming in with real numbers. It's nice to know that the numbers for a big sample are equal. I am curious, not doubting, how many keys have been used since 1T dropped, it must be a huge number.

In the view of many, if not most of us, Prosperous and Training should drop 0% of the time for what is supposed to be endgame gear.

It would hurt a little less if we could remove 2 junk traits X 3 armor weights X 12 named pieces per non-DLC chest = 72 out of 288 chances to get a junk item.

@ZOS_RichLambert consider someone with only a few hours to play, at 6 keys per day that person could try for months without getting what they are playing for. I realize it's 6 keys per character, but people with full time work and/or families aren't going to farm much more than 6 keys a day. 1 out of 216 still hurts a lot but it's a step in the right direction.

You guys gave us in group loot sharing and 100% drop rate for helms in vet and it's made a world of difference. You clearly get the level of frustration your players were feeling. 100% rate for helms works out splendidly because there the chance of getting a desired piece is 1 in 24 or 1 in 6 for a friendly group run thanks to loot sharing. 1 out of 6 are odds that don't feel too bad. 1 out of 288 is something else entirely.

There are a lot of ways to cut that big ugly 288 down to size.

1.) A token or re-trait system is by far the best but the overhead to implement is pretty high
2.) Removing Training and Prosperous would drop it by 72 (1/216 odds)
3.) A pop-up when opening the chest to chose armor weight would cut it by 192 (1/96 odds)
4.) A pop-up when opening the chest to chose which dungeon we want a shoulder from would cut it by 264 (1/24 odds)

The latter 2 options preserve training and prosperous for those who, beyond all reason, want them and cut the odds down to a level that's less punishing.

Again, thanks for taking the time to post here, it is most appreciated!

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

The drop rates are the same as on PTS and they are all equally weighted. Couple quick charts cause I know everyone loves them.

Undaunted Chest results since OneTamriel went live. (NA PC only for time)



...and seeing as @Deltia and his video was called out, here's exactly his breakdown over his 250 keys in the video.


Yeah RNG wasn't kind on the Divines or Training rolls for him, but he got a lot more impen and infused than normal.

of course what you are failing to take into account is that no-one wants Training, Prosperous, Well-Fitted...so when you add up the percentages for all 3 of those you are closer to 40% of the items that can drop are just rubbish

SanTii.92 wrote: »

They already said that their plan is to make every trait useful.

I find it interesting that now raiders get 10000 gold a week for vet raids because of complaining about expensive potions, would love to see them having to run around in prosperous!

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stardark wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

They already said that their plan is to make every trait useful.

I find it interesting that now raiders get 10000 gold a week for vet raids because of complaining about expensive potions, would love to see them having to run around in prosperous!

Have you done an end game raid progression like VMOL? The gold sink is real. Spell and weapon pots are required to pull the DPS needed to complete these trials, and they are not cheap. What keeps most people afloat is that we would occasionally get shiny jewelry every 5 or 6 runs that we could sell for a 100k. They have removed that, and this is the replacement.

To put things in perspective, my potion bill roughly equals 5k an hour in end game. 10k a week just aint that much. I got far more from doing writs.

Oh I know, just making a 'be careful what you wish for' type of post. I couldn't be bothered to swap toons to craft potions last night and handing over 20k brought a tear to my eye, so I feel the pain.

Jaronking wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

The drop rates are the same as on PTS and they are all equally weighted. Couple quick charts cause I know everyone loves them.

Undaunted Chest results since OneTamriel went live. (NA PC only for time)



...and seeing as @Deltia and his video was called out, here's exactly his breakdown over his 250 keys in the video.


Yeah RNG wasn't kind on the Divines or Training rolls for him, but he got a lot more impen and infused than normal.

of course what you are failing to take into account is that no-one wants Training, Prosperous, Well-Fitted...so when you add up the percentages for all 3 of those you are closer to 40% of the items that can drop are just rubbish

I like well fitted

it suits you...figure hugging quality material

im wondering what exactly your basing that off.. did u check actual character data as he opened chests?

Also, if its 'really' roughly 12.5% per trait chance, why am I (and pretty much everyone I've talked to) getting about 50% training/prosp not just from the chests, but ALL dungeon loot. (And about 50% of the rest are impen, sturdy and reinforced, with the other traits sitting in the last 25%)

I think rich, your either fudging the data to support your tables (IE: cherry picking) or are simply mistaken.

And yes, prosp and training both need a redesign (IE Prosp should actually BENEFIT you: MUCH more gold, MORE xp, NO armor damage, etc) and training should boost skill line xp AS WELL as xp. -I think those changes might encourage more people to use them(And I honestly wouldn't feel like I was being kicked in the teeth more than half the time when I check what i just got after seeing 'that' item im hunting for drop.... just to see the dreaded 'trait' listed.)

I am not exaggerating in the least when I say, one tameril is prob what kills ESO. I know I am not ever getting another ESO+ or buying crowns if I don't see SOME effort on your part (@ZoS) to 'fix' this mess. (I would be ok with a damn rollback and toss this silly patch into recycle bin and hit 'empty' -IE: you fubared MASSIVELY on this one, go back and try again and PLEASE for the love of the internet, actually LISTEN to feedback from MORE than just the 'epic elites' who, at this point, are prob bored of your game and never give you any money anyways.)

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

The drop rates are the same as on PTS and they are all equally weighted. Couple quick charts cause I know everyone loves them.

Undaunted Chest results since OneTamriel went live. (NA PC only for time)



...and seeing as @Deltia and his video was called out, here's exactly his breakdown over his 250 keys in the video.


Yeah RNG wasn't kind on the Divines or Training rolls for him, but he got a lot more impen and infused than normal.

Thank you for this