Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Yeah, that's the build everyone is using. The problem is, DPS is "good" all around as in it's passable. It's just worse than what others can pull.

A 30-35k magblade dps is perfectly fine for veteran trials, and they're used all the time. Of course it's not comparable to stamina dps, because magicka and stamina are not comparable period. That's a balance issue, and isn't stopping people from doing trials anyway, particularly the groups who are almost entirely composed of magicka characters.

The best mage sorcerers are pulling near to 50k, the best stam sorcerers are just above 50k. Don't see that much of a balance issue on the highest play level. An average magicka sorcerer will be pulling 35-40k DPS and an average stamina sorcerer might be able to reach 42k. Rotations are hard for both classes. You can't say they aren't comparable because they are, but they are different. Stamina rotations are definitely very hard, magicka ones are easier (excluding sorc). Stamina has to be all melee whereas most magicka have range. In PvE the balance is okay, unlike in PvP.
They are comparable and both are welcome in trials. Especially now that the vMA dual wield will be nerfed, both will be pretty close.

I thought we were talking about magblades. For the sake of incorporating your comparison, there are plenty of magblades who are capable of the 35-40k range too, just as a magicka Sorc can. The rotation for a magblade isn't any easier than it is for any stamina character, with constant bar-swapping and buff management being a necessity. The point I was trying to make is that, despite stamina NBs being capable of pulling anywhere between 40-50k, which is usually quite a bit higher than what a magblade will pull, both have a place in trials. We seem to agree on that point.

Haven't seen enough parses of magicka night blades to be able to compare them to stamina NB... Both have very high ultimate regeneration. Mage blade does have a bit more utility than stamina NB IMO though, so I'd take a mageNB instead of stamNB anytime.

Xvorg wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Don't worry about it. With infinite range gap closers, everything is melee range.

Not everything is about pvp.

Then you should start using Impale on bosses

What do you mean?

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

There are several ways to play DPS Mageblade...

1- the melee range one (CW, lotus, soul harvest)
2- the ranged caster (the 3 first siph abilities)
3- the sap tank (mainly sap essence while permablocking)
4- the bomber (magicka deto + soul tether from invis)

All of them can be combined

That only PvP. And you said DPS mageblade yet you're talking about a sap tank. What?
I think that the term DPS isn't very accurate in PvP because you don't just do damage, you have to defend yourself, move around, etc. DPS is damage per second as you most likely know, and in PvE that's just what you do, you do as much damage per second as possible with the tank and healer taking care of the survivability.

And you didn't list PvE mageblades, its the same game remember?

Because I don't PvE. Nevertheless, you are right considering a saptank a non DPS class from a PvE perspective, but from a PvP perspective, running malucheese, black rose and any other set combo (3 wp + 2 torugs, VD....), is something to consider.

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Yeah, that's the build everyone is using. The problem is, DPS is "good" all around as in it's passable. It's just worse than what others can pull.

A 30-35k magblade dps is perfectly fine for veteran trials, and they're used all the time. Of course it's not comparable to stamina dps, because magicka and stamina are not comparable period. That's a balance issue, and isn't stopping people from doing trials anyway, particularly the groups who are almost entirely composed of magicka characters.

The best mage sorcerers are pulling near to 50k, the best stam sorcerers are just above 50k. Don't see that much of a balance issue on the highest play level. An average magicka sorcerer will be pulling 35-40k DPS and an average stamina sorcerer might be able to reach 42k. Rotations are hard for both classes. You can't say they aren't comparable because they are, but they are different. Stamina rotations are definitely very hard, magicka ones are easier (excluding sorc). Stamina has to be all melee whereas most magicka have range. In PvE the balance is okay, unlike in PvP.
They are comparable and both are welcome in trials. Especially now that the vMA dual wield will be nerfed, both will be pretty close.

How is a mags sorc rotation hard? Heavy attack force pulse untill frags proc with a wall of elements and a Liquid lightening thrown in, oh and curse if you use it.

Always thought sorc was one of the easiest rotations for a caster...

Have you seen how many people play sorc? Have you seen the number of people who can pull good DPS on a sorc? Yeah, magicka sorcerers are very hard to master, you can't afford to make mistakes. Its definetly the hardest magicka rotation. Templars its a face roll, nightblades too. MagDK starts to get a bit complex without buff times because you can afford to miss a DoT. Magicka sorcerers use curse. Which is why the rotation is a pain. Before the big sorcs (Yolo and Streak One) started using it, you just had to put your dots down and spam force pulse with the occasionnal frag. Curse requires a lot of attention. If you overwrite it you lose DPS and if you don't apply in time you also lose DPS. If you continuously apply it a little too late, you'd be better off without it as force pulse will pull more damage per cast. Thats the only reason the rotation is hard. You gotta apply 3 curses in 1 rotation which lasts 10.5 seconds. Now do that in a 10 minute fight. The rotation basically doesn't allow you to sleep through a fight (*cough*jab-jab-jab*cough*)

Lol magSorc rotation is easily half the difficulty of a magblade rotation. Not to mention about 10x easier to get the gear too. I've tried going back to my magSorc several times, and every time I give up on it because it's so boring compared to other magicka dps rotations. I realize this is simply my opinion, but just because I find it boring and others don't doesn't make it a difficult rotation.

And to top it off, stam rotations are just as unforgiving. Yes, the potential damage is higher. But just as forgetting one skill in the rotation or forgetting to weave is liable to drop your magSorc dps by potentially thousands, the same is true for a stam dps. Make the mistake of clipping a dot or ani-cancelling flurry too earlier, and suddenly your dps is 2-5k lower (depending on how badly you mess up). Besides, the cream of the crop in stamina builds is simply having vMA weapons.. yes, that's where the real damage comes from. It's not because stam players have all become flawless masters of some super-complex rotation. It's the same thing for everything class, save for one extra dot in a stam DK rotation.

my first char was a sorc and I'm with Autolycus on this I find it boring and easy compared to a mageblade but as you say it's all down to different opinions.

My sorc is now just a crafting mule what a waste of gear and grinding but each to their own...

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Yeah, that's the build everyone is using. The problem is, DPS is "good" all around as in it's passable. It's just worse than what others can pull.

A 30-35k magblade dps is perfectly fine for veteran trials, and they're used all the time. Of course it's not comparable to stamina dps, because magicka and stamina are not comparable period. That's a balance issue, and isn't stopping people from doing trials anyway, particularly the groups who are almost entirely composed of magicka characters.

The best mage sorcerers are pulling near to 50k, the best stam sorcerers are just above 50k. Don't see that much of a balance issue on the highest play level. An average magicka sorcerer will be pulling 35-40k DPS and an average stamina sorcerer might be able to reach 42k. Rotations are hard for both classes. You can't say they aren't comparable because they are, but they are different. Stamina rotations are definitely very hard, magicka ones are easier (excluding sorc). Stamina has to be all melee whereas most magicka have range. In PvE the balance is okay, unlike in PvP.
They are comparable and both are welcome in trials. Especially now that the vMA dual wield will be nerfed, both will be pretty close.

How is a mags sorc rotation hard? Heavy attack force pulse untill frags proc with a wall of elements and a Liquid lightening thrown in, oh and curse if you use it.

Always thought sorc was one of the easiest rotations for a caster...

Have you seen how many people play sorc? Have you seen the number of people who can pull good DPS on a sorc? Yeah, magicka sorcerers are very hard to master, you can't afford to make mistakes. Its definetly the hardest magicka rotation. Templars its a face roll, nightblades too. MagDK starts to get a bit complex without buff times because you can afford to miss a DoT. Magicka sorcerers use curse. Which is why the rotation is a pain. Before the big sorcs (Yolo and Streak One) started using it, you just had to put your dots down and spam force pulse with the occasionnal frag. Curse requires a lot of attention. If you overwrite it you lose DPS and if you don't apply in time you also lose DPS. If you continuously apply it a little too late, you'd be better off without it as force pulse will pull more damage per cast. Thats the only reason the rotation is hard. You gotta apply 3 curses in 1 rotation which lasts 10.5 seconds. Now do that in a 10 minute fight. The rotation basically doesn't allow you to sleep through a fight (*cough*jab-jab-jab*cough*)

Lol magSorc rotation is easily half the difficulty of a magblade rotation. Not to mention about 10x easier to get the gear too. I've tried going back to my magSorc several times, and every time I give up on it because it's so boring compared to other magicka dps rotations. I realize this is simply my opinion, but just because I find it boring and others don't doesn't make it a difficult rotation.

And to top it off, stam rotations are just as unforgiving. Yes, the potential damage is higher. But just as forgetting one skill in the rotation or forgetting to weave is liable to drop your magSorc dps by potentially thousands, the same is true for a stam dps. Make the mistake of clipping a dot or ani-cancelling flurry too earlier, and suddenly your dps is 2-5k lower (depending on how badly you mess up). Besides, the cream of the crop in stamina builds is simply having vMA weapons.. yes, that's where the real damage comes from. It's not because stam players have all become flawless masters of some super-complex rotation. It's the same thing for everything class, save for one extra dot in a stam DK rotation.

Curse is harded to time than the whole mage blade rotation to me :') not that I can't time it, its just legit hard to see when its about to go off to reapply it straight away. Yeah i know stamina rotations especially stam DK are a nightmare at first. You can empower 2 extra DoTs though if you want. Noxious Breath can be empowered by vMA weapons but only on the target you used flurry on.
Mage blade rotation is easy in my opinion and funnily enough i stopped playing on it because i thought that it was boring lol. I mean, reapplying 3 dots and every 4 light weaves firing off a Assassins Will then refreshing the berserk buff was easy enough for me. But hey i guess its all opinions.

Fair enough, lol. It's definitely a subjective concept - at least as far as finding the rotation easier/harder - so I certainly won't argue against your preference or opinion. I agree that it can be difficult to get the timing right on Curse too. What I find most difficult about a magblade rotation, similar to a magDK, is that not everything falls into the same sequence over and over like it does in a stamina rotation. Rather, AW procs and the timing of Twisting Path often fall out-of-sync within the rotation of other dots, so it becomes a nuance that has to be accommodated. This is particularly noticeable on lengthy fights, and can lead to clipping dots or missing a proc entirely, and that's what I find to be most challenging about it. As with any rotation, someone who practices and has experience with it is far less likely to make these kinds of errors, and as such, the same is true for all builds to some extent.

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Yeah, that's the build everyone is using. The problem is, DPS is "good" all around as in it's passable. It's just worse than what others can pull.

A 30-35k magblade dps is perfectly fine for veteran trials, and they're used all the time. Of course it's not comparable to stamina dps, because magicka and stamina are not comparable period. That's a balance issue, and isn't stopping people from doing trials anyway, particularly the groups who are almost entirely composed of magicka characters.

The best mage sorcerers are pulling near to 50k, the best stam sorcerers are just above 50k. Don't see that much of a balance issue on the highest play level. An average magicka sorcerer will be pulling 35-40k DPS and an average stamina sorcerer might be able to reach 42k. Rotations are hard for both classes. You can't say they aren't comparable because they are, but they are different. Stamina rotations are definitely very hard, magicka ones are easier (excluding sorc). Stamina has to be all melee whereas most magicka have range. In PvE the balance is okay, unlike in PvP.
They are comparable and both are welcome in trials. Especially now that the vMA dual wield will be nerfed, both will be pretty close.

How is a mags sorc rotation hard? Heavy attack force pulse untill frags proc with a wall of elements and a Liquid lightening thrown in, oh and curse if you use it.

Always thought sorc was one of the easiest rotations for a caster...

Have you seen how many people play sorc? Have you seen the number of people who can pull good DPS on a sorc? Yeah, magicka sorcerers are very hard to master, you can't afford to make mistakes. Its definetly the hardest magicka rotation. Templars its a face roll, nightblades too. MagDK starts to get a bit complex without buff times because you can afford to miss a DoT. Magicka sorcerers use curse. Which is why the rotation is a pain. Before the big sorcs (Yolo and Streak One) started using it, you just had to put your dots down and spam force pulse with the occasionnal frag. Curse requires a lot of attention. If you overwrite it you lose DPS and if you don't apply in time you also lose DPS. If you continuously apply it a little too late, you'd be better off without it as force pulse will pull more damage per cast. Thats the only reason the rotation is hard. You gotta apply 3 curses in 1 rotation which lasts 10.5 seconds. Now do that in a 10 minute fight. The rotation basically doesn't allow you to sleep through a fight (*cough*jab-jab-jab*cough*)

Lol magSorc rotation is easily half the difficulty of a magblade rotation. Not to mention about 10x easier to get the gear too. I've tried going back to my magSorc several times, and every time I give up on it because it's so boring compared to other magicka dps rotations. I realize this is simply my opinion, but just because I find it boring and others don't doesn't make it a difficult rotation.

And to top it off, stam rotations are just as unforgiving. Yes, the potential damage is higher. But just as forgetting one skill in the rotation or forgetting to weave is liable to drop your magSorc dps by potentially thousands, the same is true for a stam dps. Make the mistake of clipping a dot or ani-cancelling flurry too earlier, and suddenly your dps is 2-5k lower (depending on how badly you mess up). Besides, the cream of the crop in stamina builds is simply having vMA weapons.. yes, that's where the real damage comes from. It's not because stam players have all become flawless masters of some super-complex rotation. It's the same thing for everything class, save for one extra dot in a stam DK rotation.

Curse is harded to time than the whole mage blade rotation to me :') not that I can't time it, its just legit hard to see when its about to go off to reapply it straight away. Yeah i know stamina rotations especially stam DK are a nightmare at first. You can empower 2 extra DoTs though if you want. Noxious Breath can be empowered by vMA weapons but only on the target you used flurry on.
Mage blade rotation is easy in my opinion and funnily enough i stopped playing on it because i thought that it was boring lol. I mean, reapplying 3 dots and every 4 light weaves firing off a Assassins Will then refreshing the berserk buff was easy enough for me. But hey i guess its all opinions.

Fair enough, lol. It's definitely a subjective concept - at least as far as finding the rotation easier/harder - so I certainly won't argue against your preference or opinion. I agree that it can be difficult to get the timing right on Curse too. What I find most difficult about a magblade rotation, similar to a magDK, is that not everything falls into the same sequence over and over like it does in a stamina rotation. Rather, AW procs and the timing of Twisting Path often fall out-of-sync within the rotation of other dots, so it becomes a nuance that has to be accommodated. This is particularly noticeable on lengthy fights, and can lead to clipping dots or missing a proc entirely, and that's what I find to be most challenging about it. As with any rotation, someone who practices and has experience with it is far less likely to make these kinds of errors, and as such, the same is true for all builds to some extent.

Yeah, Twisting Path is a pain... 11.5 seconds when all your other DoTs are 8 seconds? Pretty much why I stole Mashinate's build with Necropotence. Much easier to keep shades up than it is to struggle with Twisting Path, and probably why I found the Mageblade rotation easy.