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[Video] Eric, Rich please watch. Magicka Templar is Broken.
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Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »
Every class has something cheesy about them. I rarely take advantage of MM as a templar in pvp bcz i don't slot rune and use support purge for the 10% Magicka regain. You had a tank build with a magplar. Tanks in pvp always come off cheesy.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.Noobplar1 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.PC EU0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Ye, i know. But if you tell this to NB or Sorc-healers they will tell you how exactly this heavy attack thing does not really work in the game. Especially if you want to keep it up 24/7. Maybe they should change it to 4 seconds with heavy attack and 2 seconds with resto light attack?
Healers in PvE are usually ight attacking in between, so this wouldn't be an issue but in PvP it should be a lot more difficult to keep this buff up.Noobplar0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »
Honestly this one specific change is what's needed. Having them passively have major mending was a terrible decision as far as balance goes.0 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And yet stamina gets stronger and stronger as you all fight among yourself to get Magplars nerfed4 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
Honestly this one specific change is what's needed. Having them passively have major mending was a terrible decision as far as balance goes.
I totally get get it. In return templars should get a passive in return. Also a buff to their rune and their cleansing ritual. The main benefit to extended ritual is the sacred ground passive. Without MM it would really make it a lesser choice over purge. As it is now I choose purge over extended ritual bcz of 10% Magicka regen passive.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You have to be careful when asking for nerfs to magplars, because it may directly affect stamplars. I know they are strong, but they are only useful now because they can cleanse and have access to major mending (which stam dks do too anyway). You take away their major mending and they are still playable, but probably at the bottom of the food chain.
They don't have hurricane, an execute passive, 15% reduction on ultimates, surprise attack, a 50 costing ultimate that takes 70% of your health, cloak, stamina DoTs, wings, the ability to get resources back from using an ultimate, and so on.
They have cleanse and major mending. So please be careful what nerfs you ask for.
Gear is probably your major factor here. As you said earlier, a templar in Reactive and Malubeth is almost unkillable. Boost that with vitality pots and wtf. This isn't the classes fault at all.3 -
SkylarkX✭✭✭✭A big part of pvp in ESO is counters, buffs and debuffs, e.g. major mending vs major defile..
#nerfgameplayNocturnal - Oceanic PvX Guild
Skylärk / Dunmer DK
Skylårk / Bosmer NB
Skylörd / Khajiit Sorcerer
Elizabeth Skylark / Breton Templar
PC/NA/AD0 -
LizardThixvim✭✭✭Nothing wrong with Templar just sets are broken, i died easily so i now put him in heavy armor, black rose set, and tried reactive and malubeth sets and i am now unkillable.
I went from squishy healer into full tank mode healer just by changing my armor from 5 light, 1 med, 1 heavy, to 5 heavy, 2 light now i am unkillable as i said, its the gear and heavy armor making templar godmode tank healers, not the class itself.
Stamina is super strong now, so i had to change my build to heavy armor to stop me getting 1 shot my them, which stamina is only getting stronger in one tamriel so x)0 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I still run with light armor and no sword and board but as Stamima gets even stronger I can see why some are running these cheesy builds as they have no choice , so who do I blame the player or Zos , well that's easy ZOS because Stamima and Magicka are so unbalanced ATM1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »
If you remove the staple of a class designed to have strong heals, you kinda open up the case for reparations, no? I won't even start about the level of trolly-ness in the thread itself, but what do templars have? Templars have strong heals. That is the class working as intended.
I'll tell you what; take away templar healing passives, replace them with mobility AND a spell/weapon damage buff, AND an execute that doesn't make us sitting ducks AND some class defining characteristic and we'll call it even.3 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Casts_Many_Heals wrote: »Nothing wrong with Templar just sets are broken, i died easily so i now put him in heavy armor, black rose set, and tried reactive and malubeth sets and i am now unkillable.
I went from squishy healer into full tank mode healer just by changing my armor from 5 light, 1 med, 1 heavy, to 5 heavy, 2 light now i am unkillable as i said, its the gear and heavy armor making templar godmode tank healers, not the class itself.
Stamina is super strong now, so i had to change my build to heavy armor to stop me getting 1 shot my them, which stamina is only getting stronger in one tamriel so x)
He face tanks ~6 players with his buddy killing 4 of them for almost 4 minutes until the rest of EP players join in and kill them. Is this really that horrendous?0 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »Cherryblossom wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »Cherryblossom wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »"Mageplars OP, plz fix."
So, because someone is lame enough to run a zerg tanking build and do next to no damage to the X amount of players they are fighting; it's time to call for a nerf of ALL templars? People who only PvP always have the most ridiculous complaints lol.
You can see them fight 20 people at once with around 25k HP and not die while killing at least 5. It's broken how Templars can go from 5% HP to 100% HP without any sustain issues what so ever. Add Bats and Mist Form to it and you get a full on killing tank.
as long as people don't learn to CC on cooldown you can do such videos on all classes. he got CCed like 5 or 6 (?) times in a 2 minute fight. I'm not surprised he didn't need repentance...
Show such a video against good players and most people will agree, but this one is not a good example for anything...
I use Immovable pots, but I was CC'd enough times and I was rooted quite a lot to."Mageplars OP, plz fix."
So, because someone is lame enough to run a zerg tanking build and do next to no damage to the X amount of players they are fighting; it's time to call for a nerf of ALL templars? People who only PvP always have the most ridiculous complaints lol.
I have 33K magicka and 3000+ spell damage and I have 4 offensive skills not including ultimates, it's not a zerg tanking build it's just a general PvP set up for Templar. xD you're cracking me up. If I was lowest of the low I could have slotted Jesus Beam and killed a lot more people.
had you tried to use jesus beam you would of died instantly as it's a channel skill and you can interupt putting them off balance.
More importantly there were 3 of you fighting and for the majority of the fight you there wasn't more than 5 against you, as soon as you had about 10 people attacking you died. so you didn't tank a zerg, you didn't even survive more than 10 seconds, so whats your point.....
Dark Flare has a 1.7 second cast time, did I die casting it? No.
You literally sound like a Beam Basher not knowing you can cancel Radiant Destruction. 1 tick of it can hit for 10K +.
You weren't really being attacked that much, the statement stands, radiant is not usable amongst large groups, firstly as I said it's easily interupted, targeting in ESO is very special.
You've still not answered the simple question based on your video, in which you spend the majority of the time fighting a couple of people, as soon as you are attacked by an actual group you die in seconds! Your premise is that Templars are overpowered but your video shows they die pretty quickly when attacked by a large group!
I use radiant for those fleeing a fight, or dodge rolling NB.
We weren't being attacked by 2 people, I think you need to re watch the video. The video is highlighting almost infinite sustain and the strength of Major Mending. Do you know what actually killed me in the end? A Templar skill called Radiant Destruction in the back.
didn't say two people I believe for the majority it was 5 people against 3 of you, then as pointed out as soon as a group focused you, you died.
Your right though if two of you wear "Cheesey armour sets" you would survive longer, but you could do the same on Sorc, DK and NB. Healing is great but it doesn't really do much damage.
Different builds to focus and counter your healing are out there, they are also used.
I've watched a templar in one of what you call cheesey outfits walk away from a zerg fight to hide, only for me to kill him with my Gank NB build before he knew what was happening. I admit had he been prepared I would probably of moved away, as solo I couldn't burst through his healing and block, but I could say the same about Tanky DK and shield stacking Sorc.1 -
LizardThixvim✭✭✭Casts_Many_Heals wrote: »Nothing wrong with Templar just sets are broken, i died easily so i now put him in heavy armor, black rose set, and tried reactive and malubeth sets and i am now unkillable.
I went from squishy healer into full tank mode healer just by changing my armor from 5 light, 1 med, 1 heavy, to 5 heavy, 2 light now i am unkillable as i said, its the gear and heavy armor making templar godmode tank healers, not the class itself.
Stamina is super strong now, so i had to change my build to heavy armor to stop me getting 1 shot my them, which stamina is only getting stronger in one tamriel so x)
He face tanks ~6 players with his buddy killing 4 of them for almost 4 minutes until the rest of EP players join in and kill them. Is this really that horrendous?
i have seen more impressive tanking/ killing coming from a stam dk x) can we nerf stam dk now pls?
And it is horrendous, but it will be the gear they are wearing make them super tanky with 5 heavy armor, with 2 light, making him super tanky, and its obvious the players he fight against arent the most skilled (no offense if you are in that video) but all you need to do against these tanky healers, is focus dmg on them and they claim temp has so much dmg when they are tanky, but all they are doing is throwing blazing shield and stunning them while oils are being poured down x)Edited by LizardThixvim on October 4, 2016 1:39PM1 -
LizardThixvim✭✭✭These vids never reflect the true class, its the same with EVERY video on youtube, a skilled player killing people not so skilled as them, basically a skilled player killing some inexperienced ones, these vids never reflect the truth about a class just how good someone is compared to others around them x)1
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Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Will you please make a detailed list of your recommended templar nerfs so I can provide you the evidence that every one of those skills and abilities has already been repeatedly nerfed. Thanks.1 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Will you please make a detailed list of your recommended templar nerfs so I can provide you the evidence that every one of those skills and abilities has already been repeatedly nerfed. Thanks.
Empowering sweep hits like a truck needs nerfing0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Will you please make a detailed list of your recommended templar nerfs so I can provide you the evidence that every one of those skills and abilities has already been repeatedly nerfed. Thanks.
Empowering sweep hits like a truck needs nerfing
Yes, nerf empowering sweeps and crystal blast. Buff malubeth. I concur.1 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Will you please make a detailed list of your recommended templar nerfs so I can provide you the evidence that every one of those skills and abilities has already been repeatedly nerfed. Thanks.
Unstable core that needs nerfing while we are at it1 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »wearing Malubeth and Reactive
There are counters to these. I have fought guys running this set up to 2vX. You're assuming everyone is gonna sit there and let Malubeth proc, you can reset the situation to neutral if you take 2 steps back and roll dodge its a super easy way to break the beam if it hits my body. After it breaks-- you just re-engage to keep pressure on the Templar.
Reactive has a 100% chance to go off when the disabling effect hits you, once your opponent figures out this is being used, he just has to then smartly choose when to use his disabling skill on you. Which will probably be when you're in execute range and out of stamina.
All these sets do is train the more experienced player to bait and switch, smart players can figure this out quickly and still defeat Malu/Reactive users.
Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on October 4, 2016 2:41PM0 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Will you please make a detailed list of your recommended templar nerfs so I can provide you the evidence that every one of those skills and abilities has already been repeatedly nerfed. Thanks.
Sure.
Major Mending passive. (Never been nerfed).
Radiant Destruction (Recently over buffed).
Done.Edited by WillhelmBlack on October 4, 2016 3:29PMPC EU2 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Will you please make a detailed list of your recommended templar nerfs so I can provide you the evidence that every one of those skills and abilities has already been repeatedly nerfed. Thanks.
Sure.
Major Mending passive. (Never been nerfed).
Radiant Destruction (Recently over buffed).
Done.
radiant destruction did never got buffed....
it got nerfed with IC (bonus damage with full magicka reduced to 20%) and with orsinium-dlc (ticks now only every second instead of 0.5sec), but they changed CP (benefits radiant, bc it's considered a dot) and they fixed the bug which allowed you to dodge it.
But as i already said...magicka-DPS is balanced, if you nerf radiant you will have to buff templar-DPS somewhere else.
regarding the major-mending passive:
This Passive was like now (+25% (?) healing on everything) until 1.6, then they changed it into + 30% more healing on restoring light abilities. With one of the last patches they reverted it to major mending. This passive in it's current form is as old as TESO itself...Noobplar1 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Will you please make a detailed list of your recommended templar nerfs so I can provide you the evidence that every one of those skills and abilities has already been repeatedly nerfed. Thanks.
Sure.
Major Mending passive. (Never been nerfed).
Radiant Destruction (Recently over buffed).
Done.
False. Cleansing ritual (formerly purifying ritual) and channelled focus each used to give a flat 30% healing increase as a passive. It was nerfed and changed to major mending which is 25%. Most people don't realize this, but prior to the thieves guild (could have been IC or Orsinium, it's been a while) update, the 30% increase on healing from purifying ritual and the 30% increase from channeled focused used to stack. So we are now at a net nerf of 58.3% of total healing output (60% down to 25%). This is not accounting for the nerf to breath of life.
Radiant has actually been nerfed as well. Radiant opression used to receive a 40% damage increase based on the magic a player has (100% magic would equal 40% extra damage). It was then nerfed by making it dodgeable. No one used it during that time period, in pvp. Hell, I swear i was one of about 8 templars left on console during that time period. The only buff that radiant recently received, is that it is now undodgeable.
Class dismissed.Edited by Ron_Burgundy_79 on October 4, 2016 3:43PM3 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
Honestly this one specific change is what's needed. Having them passively have major mending was a terrible decision as far as balance goes.
I totally get get it. In return templars should get a passive in return. Also a buff to their rune and their cleansing ritual. The main benefit to extended ritual is the sacred ground passive. Without MM it would really make it a lesser choice over purge. As it is now I choose purge over extended ritual bcz of 10% Magicka regen passive.
I think swapping major mending for minor would be the appropriate change. I do however think Templars should get a little more regen in its place though.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »
So the healer-class is not supposed to get THE healing passive? maybe change it to another skill or so, but removing it completely is not really an option.
No, you get major Mending from a fully charged Resto heavy attack, restoration staffs are what healers use, makes sense. Someone with all the cheese gear and getting major Mending is ridiculous, you've seen the healing on a Stam DK right? It's exactly the same.
Will you please make a detailed list of your recommended templar nerfs so I can provide you the evidence that every one of those skills and abilities has already been repeatedly nerfed. Thanks.
Sure.
Major Mending passive. (Never been nerfed).
Radiant Destruction (Recently over buffed).
Done.
This.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Was that a pocket healer in the video?
The guy was spraying heals on you and hardly getting targeted (plus he kept transmutation on you for the entire fight.)
I dont know if they had fassalla on, but they all targeted you instead of just keeping you CC/resource drain. Even if your health bar started to drain towards the end, that healer was still up.
Good fight but the EP there pugged out and the synergy of the group outplayed them. Hardly a reason for a nerf
. Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't see anything broken here... I don't see any issues at all. This is what happens when decent players with decent gear go up against players with lesser experience and lesser gear. The build itself is clearly designed to outpace other opponents at the cost of raw damage potential. I'm completely guessing here, but I'd wager it's a heavy armor Kagrenac's setup with Willpower? Looks like Malu and maybe Torugs too. You probably sit somewhere between 3-3.5k SD and are built predominantly as a magicka tank. Could be using transmutation instead. I might be off, but I don't think by much.
This kind of build strategy works for every class. It doesn't matter if stamina or magicka, doing this kind of quazi-tank setup is practically the meta for pvp nowadays... placing focus on heavy armor for the passive benefits and sustain while selecting sets that cater to a dps is common practice now (as if the sheer volume of players running BR and Reactive isn't an indicator). I don't see this as broken. I see this as someone who knows how to build their character against others that don't know how to counter it.
Towards the end of the video, the OP is focused down and outnumbered (yay for Jesus Beam, but that's not the reason OP died, it was just icing on the cake. A single Jesus Beam would not take down someone in this build, it's being outnumbered 15:1 that does that). I have a "similar" setup on my hybrid pvp sorc that uses 5 Pelinels heavy with supplementary damage and mitigation sets. The result is a final build with only 3.4k WD/SD (not accounting for Wrath) but has exceedingly high physical, spell, and crit resistances. It's difficult to take down, and is designed to outlast, not destroy. Completely different in form, but quite similar in function.Edited by Autolycus on October 4, 2016 8:36PM0