A Healthy Wrobalance

Berenhir · September 2016

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Our goal is to make it more valuable to spend points in health instead of just going all magicka or stamina. The reason this is so powerful is you're getting to deal more damage and heal yourself for more by maxing offensive stats. The current design is still in progress, so l don't have concrete details for you right now.

I am really really curious how the combat team wants to make max health matter.
I hope they won't just remove the +5k health from battle spirit.

How do you think this will change the meta? Will stamina builds be on top because they can stack weapon damage as before? Or will they lose out due to their significantly reduced ressource pool? How will magicka builds be able to compete, regarding their damage primarily scales from a pool that has to be lowered to gain more health?

What are your suggestions?

Birdovic · September 2016

Hope its something like in my old thread (signature)

RAGUNAnoOne · September 2016

True stam will not have as much of an issue as healing is based off dual wield lifesteals and rally/vigor. but healing is primary a magic users role and if being able to heal means less damage and vice versa what about content like VMA which is balance solely around having to do both?

Nirnrotten · September 2016

Well we don't really have anything to go off of. Just the statement that they are indeed looking to rework the combat system and how people choose to allocate their resources.

My hope is that they somehow tie health in with mitigation/healing recieved. Stamina and Magicka is already offensive/utility so Health should be defensive/utility. I hope the system does more to balance the meta so we actually put points in all three stats. Builds are sooo easy to make when you just choose one stat or resource and stack it to win. I'm excited to see what ideas the devs come up with.

Valen_Byte · September 2016

Took them this long to realize that having your tooltip damage scale off of the resource pools was a bad idea.

Birdovic · September 2016

My hope is that they somehow tie health in with mitigation/healing recieved.

I hope this happens.

Phinix1 · September 2016

Berenhir wrote: »

How do you think this will change the meta?

Everyone gets out their wallet and re-rolls stamina Imperial.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't like this idea. Linking healing to health really makes no sense to me. Linking stamina to healing with Vigor and other abilities was already borderline, but you could create some way in your imagination that your own latent magic was interacting to enable these mechanics. But healing from health?

It's like saying Honey Badger makes the best healer because he's such a bad@#$. It just makes no sense.

Ch4mpTW · September 2016

At this point, I feel like the devs are just guessing. They're guessing, and doing whatever it is that sounds like it may be interesting. I feel there is little to no logic applied, and changes are being made off of what they think can sell more boxes. While also what sounds the most entertaining to them.

timidobserver · September 2016

My idea:
Stat Milestones. X points into a stat offers X benefit.

For example,
X points into health = X% crit damage.
X points into health = X% spell/weapon damage.
X points into health = Adds X% ultimate recovery per second.

Dredlord · September 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

My idea:
Stat Milestones. X points into a stat offers X benefit.

For example,
X points into health = X% crit damage.
X points into health = X% spell/weapon damage.
X points into health = Adds X% ultimate recovery per second.

Yeah, i mean a ridiculously terrible example ...

But something "like" that.

timidobserver · September 2016

Dredlord wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

My idea:
Stat Milestones. X points into a stat offers X benefit.

For example,
X points into health = X% crit damage.
X points into health = X% spell/weapon damage.
X points into health = Adds X% ultimate recovery per second.

Yeah, i mean a ridiculously terrible example ...

But something "like" that.

Yeh, they are just examples of how the system could work, I wouldn't put a lot of effort into analyzing the examples.

Grabmoore · September 2016

They really want me to play my argonian Templar with a burning shield build in PvP

Elsonso · September 2016

Berenhir wrote: »

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Our goal is to make it more valuable to spend points in health instead of just going all magicka or stamina. The reason this is so powerful is you're getting to deal more damage and heal yourself for more by maxing offensive stats. The current design is still in progress, so l don't have concrete details for you right now.

I am really really curious how the combat team wants to make max health matter.
I hope they won't just remove the +5k health from battle spirit.

How do you think this will change the meta? Will stamina builds be on top because they can stack weapon damage as before? Or will they lose out due to their significantly reduced ressource pool? How will magicka builds be able to compete, regarding their damage primarily scales from a pool that has to be lowered to gain more health?

What are your suggestions?

My thought, from the way he worded it, is that they will split healing and damage dealing, so healing will come from the Health attribute. People who max offsensive stats, Magicka and Stamina, won't see as much healing.

altemriel · September 2016

Berenhir wrote: »

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Our goal is to make it more valuable to spend points in health instead of just going all magicka or stamina. The reason this is so powerful is you're getting to deal more damage and heal yourself for more by maxing offensive stats. The current design is still in progress, so l don't have concrete details for you right now.

I am really really curious how the combat team wants to make max health matter.
I hope they won't just remove the +5k health from battle spirit.

How do you think this will change the meta? Will stamina builds be on top because they can stack weapon damage as before? Or will they lose out due to their significantly reduced ressource pool? How will magicka builds be able to compete, regarding their damage primarily scales from a pool that has to be lowered to gain more health?

What are your suggestions?

I just hope they do not plan to fix the magicka builds by nerfing stamina builds

hrothbern · September 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Our goal is to make it more valuable to spend points in health instead of just going all magicka or stamina. The reason this is so powerful is you're getting to deal more damage and heal yourself for more by maxing offensive stats. The current design is still in progress, so l don't have concrete details for you right now.

I am really really curious how the combat team wants to make max health matter.
I hope they won't just remove the +5k health from battle spirit.

How do you think this will change the meta? Will stamina builds be on top because they can stack weapon damage as before? Or will they lose out due to their significantly reduced ressource pool? How will magicka builds be able to compete, regarding their damage primarily scales from a pool that has to be lowered to gain more health?

What are your suggestions?

My thought, from the way he worded it, is that they will split healing and damage dealing, so healing will come from the Health attribute. People who max offsensive stats, Magicka and Stamina, won't see as much healing.

+1
There is however not that much manoeuvring room anymore when big side effects in PVE raids are to be avoided.

Speculating the how:
~> Healers should output more or less the same heals, but self heals should weaken with a low health pool.

There is "Healing Done" and "Healing Taken/received".

Perhaps Healing done is untouched, still governed by SD-Mag or WD-Sta. Securing Healing output in raids.
and Healing Taken/Received becomes influenced by the size of the Health pool.

Tanks in raids with enough health pool are not affected.
Meta stacked DD's in raids or PVP will get less heal if their health pool is small.

Anti_Virus · September 2016

I beleive stam builds are about to get Wrobeled.

Mojmir · September 2016

nothing good will come of this,I smell nerf too something and buff to the wrong thing.

Phinix1 · September 2016

@Wrobel I think a much better way to balance this would be to continue to tweak class stamina morphs and weapon abilities to have inherent healing components.

There are already limitations on magicka builds having an advantage in healing for stacking their offensive pool (magicka). For example, unless you are a Templar you are stuck using a Resto staff, which means you can't run destro/Sword and Board and will be more vulnerable in general.

So too does stamina need 2H, but they can grind out Vigor which is class/weapon independent.

Stamina heals scale off stamina. Magicka heals scale off magicka.

The goal IMO should be bringing the two in line, not completely reinventing the wheel with (to me) a somewhat counter-intuitive health-as-healing mechanic that requires everything to be re-balanced from the ground up.

More armor set healing components would also be something I would consider before changing resource pool scaling calculations.

I do like the idea of meeting certain thresholds of scaling instead of it being totally uncapped. Sort of like a "tiered soft cap."

In that scenario some benefits to having a certain level of health could be nice, but not at the expense of healers having tiny resource pools in order to stack big heals.

It would have to be easy enough to get decent benefits from the health buffs without having to give up too much of the benefits of large resource pools, which are used to scale things like shields and other class utility skills as well.