ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Those numbers were pulled yesterday. I saw it happen.

But that still raises the question as to how accurate do you think that really is. There's so many other factors as to why those graphs may look the way they do. Let's be honest as a hardcore ps4 player with plenty of experience in pve and pvp I too see what everyone else sees. Heck, I'm running 5 heavy on my magicka templar in pvp myself. The truth is Gina, a lot of your community are truly still figuring the game out, they have no idea what the right builds are, the correct races. There's no template for them to go off of. People pick a race and class and some just do it for the role playing. Hard data should only be used as reference and not hard facts. For instance I could go get a bunch of friends to run absurd off the wall builds for trials and you guys could pull that data later and the numbers would be slightly altered.. What I'm getting at is hard data can be easily manipulated if it gets down to it. This is coming from someone who spends all their time actually playing the game and not sitting on the forums. Just finally got bored enough to put my two cents in.

Eh.. if you actually pvp a fair bit.... those numbers seem about right.

You do honestly see the full gambit of builds and gear sets up nowadays.

What those numbers mean is what's dubious. Not that I'm saying I know what they mean, or that much can be interpreted from them.

The question would be what setups are effective in pvp. Those numbers don't really reveal that. I'm not sure what would.. maybe what's the breakdown of KDR by armor type and by class? What's the breakdown of builds and gear with the highest AP per hour? What's the breakdown of damage done in cyro? etc.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I probably shouldn't respond to such a post, but gotta jump in. We do use data and compare that to player feedback and our own experiences on live. Players always assume that what they see is what everyone is doing... that is a very dangerous assumption. Let's take a more detailed look at question #7... (even though its trolly)

"What hard data did you use when buffing heavy armor? If your data is reliable and / or your ability to interpret this data is satisfactory, why are HA sets like Black Rose so popular among damage dealers?"

Note: I'm only using NA PC data for a quick example... I don't have the time to wait for the report to parse all 180+ GB of data for all platforms.

Current armor bias of ALL players on NA PC:


Current armor bias of ONLY PVP players on NA PC


.. and now just for fun, here's the bias of all PVP players on NA PC with 501+ CP.


So in general, heavy isn't as popular as everyone thinks in PVP, especially at the higher end CP. The changes to heavy armor have swung things much closer to what I would call overall parity than ever before. There is still room for improvement however, especially when we start digging into things like class armor bias breakdowns. (i.e. - DK generally prefer heavy over all other armor types...etc)

Amazing. Any chance we can get access to more of these things? e.g. how many is Stamina versus Magicka? How many Sorcs/Templars/DKs/Nightblades?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Those numbers were pulled yesterday. I saw it happen.

Rich is a Jedi. He just made you think you saw it.

The repetitive cycle I've seen throughout so called balance changes is that you try to make something more balanced for pvp reasons and it has an adverse effect on that abilities pve performance and vice versa. I feel like it needs to be evaluated differently, like pve and pvp need to have separate changes. Would it be so hard to make balance changes to classes and abilities for one area of the game without impacting the other side? Like I understand it would take a lot of work, but something like while in pvp area this list of abilities operate differently than they do in pve and that only happens in a pvp area like battle spirit and other pvp buffs etc. do. I feel like if something like this could be done you could begin balancing each side of the game more accurately and not risk opening as many can of worms. I just have so many random thoughts and ideas as to changes that could lead to a better overall eso experience for everyone, but who am I right?

I only PvP and the whole argument of everyone using Heavy Armor is complete BS. Yes there is a percentage of players, but does are the experience players. The rest are still running medium and light. Just cause you duel everyday and the rest of "Elite Duelist" are wearing heavy doesnt mean the entire community is doing it too. ZoS employees give you some facts and you guys get angry at it.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jazbay_Grape wrote: »

Well, I can see why they rarely bother to respond to some of you people. He gives you the data, and you essentially suggest that he is a liar or is otherwise being misleading.

Maybe it's because that's the way the community that doesn't believe in Casu-El has been treated for over two years.

Has nothing to do with that, its the internet mentality.
And not all think its all that bad as some people make it sound.

Its because there is a power shift from the two dominant armor types to HA. I know everyone used to say HA was useless once soft caps were removed. As we get closer to balance, a lot of people who have invested in LA and MA are getting bitter and salty about it.

My point is... make a balanced build and stick to it... don't chase the flavor of the month... (advice for casuals who want to save some gold)

Its the same thing as saying oil is 'expensive'. People are bitter when things change and do not go in their favor.

That said, this is a fair society, not a democracy. Balance caters to the minority... not majority. Majority of players are going to *** about it.

JD2013 wrote: »

"ZOS doesn't use data!"

"Here's some figures."

"They could be from any time!"

"He pulled them yesterday"

"Y u lie to us ZOS???"

Honestly. Even when faced with data the people who shout loudest won't believe it just because it's not what they want to hear. Quite ludicrous. It's little wonder that the devs are replying to less and less.

Yes, simply because an open forum is just not the best place to get full on valid helpful feedback. It's too flooded with negative criticism and relevant feedback is easily and quickly overlooked. It's why I rarely bother commenting, but for that small chance anything I have to say is noticed and could help why not right?

@ZOS_RichLambert, many thanks for the data and for engaging with the thread. So many of us really love these kinds of stats! I'm sure you guys pull lots of numbers like that on a regular basis - would you consider making a section on the forums to post all the non business sensitive data? Why not? It helps your community more than the odd secrecy you usually employ. You're pulling the numbers anyway so why not let us in on the fun?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So more PvP players with 501+ CP wear light armor than medium armor? Wow, I totally get it now. That explains why stamina get buffed every patch while magicka gets nothing. They need to keep making op medium armor sets until more people wear it.

It would be nice, instead of nitpicking what people like Lambert and Gina are saying, to actually engage in constructive conversation. They're here, in this thread, even against their better judgement to respond to a couple "trolling" attempts.

Can we please make this productive?

The reason people think everyone is stam build is because stam have the highest burst and that's what often kills you. The reason you think tanks are everywhere is because they never die and that's an encounter you remember over the dozens of other people you killed. You never notice the light armor support healing you in the background or behind enemy lines. It's all just confirmation bias.