ZOS Claims to Use "Hard Data" for Balancing

xellink

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Actually more pew pew and less qq would make this game better. People that are at the lower end of the bell shaped curve in terms or performance or ability will always complain. What I guarantee is Rich shared with you the data and you blasted him. He won't be doing so again. If Gina said he pulled it today that is what it is. You are not entitled to a pull stamp. We as the customer really have only two choices stay or go.

Not entitled to ask a question? Yes the data was pulled yesterday. It is reasonable to ask how far back the data goes. Is it from 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 Year?

What is wrong with trying to understand data that has been presented to you?

That's exactly why I made the statements I made, about the graph presented lacking information. And some people attacked my statements, and refuse to acknowledge the blatant missing information. Saying "the data was pulled yesterday", and showing a graph that lacks date stamps again doesn't mean a damn thing. It just means that it was collected yesterday, but does NOT show when the data collected is reflecting upon. Nor how far back it goes. Which is why it's so important to supply date stamps.

Every attempt at data dredging is taking up Dev time, community managers time, etc. Unless a real unbiased review of the data is released which will require expert opinion and a lot of time, what you are going to receive is not going to add a lot of meaning. Like I said, in my own specialty/work, i know that there is a lot of common knowledge that the public has misintepreted. To make things worse, some of these people actually work in these fields! The result of data misintepretation is catastrophic. Any further release of data is equivalent to Romney releasing his taxes.

Demanding a date stamp is like forcing your wife to sign a pre-nup. Basically there is no trust between the two of you... whats the point in continuing the relationship? More data being released may not benefit ZOS. It may not even contribute to more fun in the game. Like I said before in an earlier post, I have seen this evolved into toxic competitive *** in another MMO.

But, so many people enjoy being spoon-fed things without asking questions. It's no wonder so many sit pretty with what was given to them. And honestly? I'm over it. Lol. Most people will accept what they want to accept, and simply swallow whatever is presented before them. And the small group of others? Well... Others will forever question what is given before them, and analyze it in-depth. They will cross-check said data, and try their best to make sense of it. I suppose that's the world we live in today, bruh.

All of us want (and want to ask for) more information. However, the attitude some forumers have when making demands deserve rebuke.

And information release is a privilege... not an entitlement. Anyone is welcome to make constructive comments and request for more information but make sure you are polite when you are doing so.

Most players are not competitive and just want to have fun. Having information that all armor are worn is good enough for most players. Also, you have just insulted most players here with your statement. Think before you talk. Lurk more.

Cronopoly

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SNIP good info

Would you or another on the staff be willing to share other statistics that the player base might think is not so transparent for the factual PVP situation (NA PC for example etc).

Myself and others have frankly been complaining about it a tad and a factual dialogue where we aren't toxic and blaming your team for this or that would be welcome as we get ready towards the next phase of the game (1Tam).

--- # of Deathblows in PVP by those speccing > 90% Stamina vs > 90% Magicka in the base stat pool allocation. 24Hr period. (Might not be worth the extra Select statement though).
--- # of Deathblows by Class.

--- Healing done in PVP by spell? percentage (period 24 hours)
--- Top casted abilities, including Item Procs (Top 25 or 50 - whatever makes sense)

--- Kill to Death ratio by:

• Armor (wearing 5 pieces)
• Class
• Stat pool (Stam/Mag)

In PVP we all want to compete. Therefore this type of request would be slanted in that vein. If not a priority to respond with hard data, or in this case if it would cause strife on the forums here, (not that it has ever occured ) an acknowledgement that your team looks at "this type" of query data would be really cool as a minimum.

smacx250

Thanks @ZOS_RichLambert for sharing that info. Even though I currently kinda have the "short end of the stick" so to speak with some of the game balance, I have the belief that ZOS is using the data it has (and no others do) to do the best it is able for the overall game. I realize that the "big picture" gameplay objectives may be obscure to observers, moving large things takes time, and that intermediate states can be difficult - I look forward to the things to come!

NoMoreChillies

thanks for sharing the data devs, it was a treat.
please ignore the haters and make a sticky with more data for all to see.

Armitas

@ZOS_RichLambert

How disparate was DK between heavy armor and light armor? I had suspected this because it's very difficult to survive in LA as a DK right now. Just curious by how much margin the dk's have made their way to HA.

Travestynox

It's always tough when the facts dont match up with your own experience...

Thanks to ZOS for coming out and showing this. Though, with this sort of response, I bet it's the last time they will.

#thisiswhywecanthavenicethings

Tornateoh

If you consider the builds people run for the 5-1-1, all armor types are use. Does this graph show how many of a certain armor type is currently equipped? How are these numbers found? They can't possibly mean anything alone unless compared to other data. If they have it, pull some data from 1.5 or 1.6 about armor types or any other era. How does it compare with those numbers and ratios? Another thing to also consider is that if approximately 1/3 (really rough ratios, just trying to get the point across) are running in heavy armor, does that mean 1/3 of the population plays a tank? Does this graph only track active players? Simply put, this data means nothing. I play this game day in and day out, I don't tally up all the players I see running certain builds, but I know damn well when I try to do the occasional dungeon, I can never find a tank. When I pvp, which is my primary gig, more than half the players I fight are tanks. If these numbers are true, if you think about it, it actually shows the imbalance of heavy armor even further. I'd like to see how many players are actively tanking in both pve and pvp. If that ratio doesn't even compare with this one, then that means there are a lot of DPS wearing heavy armor.

You got to learn how to read graphs, they are one of the most misleading sources of information there are. They show numbers that look important, but placed into the macro perspective of things, the numbers don't apply to what is actually being shown.

Please, we need more interaction from the dev team, get rid of ESO live and just simply talk to us without a script. You (meaning the company) ignore more than half of us if we don't say what you want to hear. The reality is criticism is hard to handle. The even bigger reality is most of the people giving the criticism are people who are *** and you don't want to hear it from them. More than anything, we want interaction and a voice and an opinion that it is actually considered when it comes to the game. I feel like your whole team has shelled themselves away because of all the *** that may have said poor things out of passion. It's because of that passion why some of the more experienced players still bother with this game. Years and years go by and promises that were made, were never delivered, but we still push on and try to cooperate with the game and the team, but most of the players I've talked to (both experienced and inexperienced, long term and short term, nice and mean) have said that they don't feel like anyone is listening. We wanted the justice system. That was a huge let down that we weren't getting it. Even so, players and streamers still played your game and stuck with you. It's getting hard to keep this up though, I personally want to move on from this game, but I haven't found another to catch my attention. Every time I log on now, I get bored within the hour, I can only watch streamers, but even that has to stop when half the time they complain about this bug and that bug and how ZOS isn't listening. They are trying to reach out and you need to reach back. I've been playing this game for about 2 years, and apparently I came in at the worst period of the game, and for me, my experiences have only gotten worse and worse as I go on. This is a long ass rant I needed to get off my chest. Thanks for reading if you actually did. I don't think I'll respond to replies unless they are actually constructive, rather than destructive. So think before you type because I don't want to have to do it for you.

TL;DR Please communicate with us. As unfriendly and ***-ish as some people can be, most of us just want the best for the game. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno I love this game, but I don't love this community. They just get more bitter and bitter and I think it's because they don't get enough love from you guys. Be real with us.

phaseadept

manny254 wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Actually more pew pew and less qq would make this game better. People that are at the lower end of the bell shaped curve in terms or performance or ability will always complain. What I guarantee is Rich shared with you the data and you blasted him. He won't be doing so again. If Gina said he pulled it today that is what it is. You are not entitled to a pull stamp. We as the customer really have only two choices stay or go.

Not entitled to ask a question? Yes the data was pulled yesterday. It is reasonable to ask how far back the data goes. Is it from 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 Year?

What is wrong with trying to understand data that has been presented to you?

So what you're saying is, you never ever want to see actual data from he developers unless it meets your personal standards?

Tornateoh

phaseadept wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Actually more pew pew and less qq would make this game better. People that are at the lower end of the bell shaped curve in terms or performance or ability will always complain. What I guarantee is Rich shared with you the data and you blasted him. He won't be doing so again. If Gina said he pulled it today that is what it is. You are not entitled to a pull stamp. We as the customer really have only two choices stay or go.

Not entitled to ask a question? Yes the data was pulled yesterday. It is reasonable to ask how far back the data goes. Is it from 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 Year?

What is wrong with trying to understand data that has been presented to you?

So what you're saying is, you never ever want to see actual data from he developers unless it meets your personal standards?

Where did you pull this question from? Nothing he said actually says anything you are asking, lmao. Please stop trying to put words into his mouth. He asked a relevant question, and got a relevant answer. You just asked a completely irrelevant question, not related to what he said at all. He said nothing about personal standards, nothing about never wanting to see data. If I gave you a random ass statistic, you would like to know the background of it and where it came from, it's the same thing. So hop off.

IxskullzxI

Travestynox wrote: »

It's always tough when the facts dont match up with your own experience...

Thanks to ZOS for coming out and showing this. Though, with this sort of response, I bet it's the last time they will.

#thisiswhywecanthavenicethings

Lol you mean the one fact rich decided to pull out of all the rest? What about the rest? I would love to hear the reasoning behind all the changes in that list. Every patch the balance gets worse. One tamriel was a perfect opportunity to close the gap between magicka and stam, but they failed to do any such balance. There isn't a single change that has been made in this game that leads me to believe they use anything but their own bias when "balancing".

phaseadept

Tornateoh wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Actually more pew pew and less qq would make this game better. People that are at the lower end of the bell shaped curve in terms or performance or ability will always complain. What I guarantee is Rich shared with you the data and you blasted him. He won't be doing so again. If Gina said he pulled it today that is what it is. You are not entitled to a pull stamp. We as the customer really have only two choices stay or go.

Not entitled to ask a question? Yes the data was pulled yesterday. It is reasonable to ask how far back the data goes. Is it from 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 Year?

What is wrong with trying to understand data that has been presented to you?

So what you're saying is, you never ever want to see actual data from he developers unless it meets your personal standards?

Where did you pull this question from? Nothing he said actually says anything you are asking, lmao. Please stop trying to put words into his mouth. He asked a relevant question, and got a relevant answer. You just asked a completely irrelevant question, not related to what he said at all. He said nothing about personal standards, nothing about never wanting to see data. If I gave you a random ass statistic, you would like to know the background of it and where it came from, it's the same thing. So hop off.

No, if I get information from a notoriously secretive developer, I wouldn't complain about it. I'd engage in conversation like a normal person to get more info. . . Instead of acting like random internet troll and causing said developer to clam up again.

Wasted opportunity

Thelon

Thank you for your input, Rich

Iyas

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I probably shouldn't respond to such a post, but gotta jump in. We do use data and compare that to player feedback and our own experiences on live. Players always assume that what they see is what everyone is doing... that is a very dangerous assumption. Let's take a more detailed look at question #7... (even though its trolly)

"What hard data did you use when buffing heavy armor? If your data is reliable and / or your ability to interpret this data is satisfactory, why are HA sets like Black Rose so popular among damage dealers?"

Note: I'm only using NA PC data for a quick example... I don't have the time to wait for the report to parse all 180+ GB of data for all platforms.

Current armor bias of ALL players on NA PC:


Current armor bias of ONLY PVP players on NA PC


.. and now just for fun, here's the bias of all PVP players on NA PC with 501+ CP.


So in general, heavy isn't as popular as everyone thinks in PVP, especially at the higher end CP. The changes to heavy armor have swung things much closer to what I would call overall parity than ever before. There is still room for improvement however, especially when we start digging into things like class armor bias breakdowns. (i.e. - DK generally prefer heavy over all other armor types...etc)

Hey, could we get the same statistics for EU server? Pleeease

Khaos_Bane

Would it be possible to just have stats collected and shared with the community? Like some of these Diablo 3 stats

http://diablo.somepage.com/info/paragon-distribution

Stats For one Class

http://diablo.somepage.com/popular-2-0/demon-hunter

Tornateoh

phaseadept wrote: »

Tornateoh wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Actually more pew pew and less qq would make this game better. People that are at the lower end of the bell shaped curve in terms or performance or ability will always complain. What I guarantee is Rich shared with you the data and you blasted him. He won't be doing so again. If Gina said he pulled it today that is what it is. You are not entitled to a pull stamp. We as the customer really have only two choices stay or go.

Not entitled to ask a question? Yes the data was pulled yesterday. It is reasonable to ask how far back the data goes. Is it from 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 Year?

What is wrong with trying to understand data that has been presented to you?

So what you're saying is, you never ever want to see actual data from he developers unless it meets your personal standards?

Where did you pull this question from? Nothing he said actually says anything you are asking, lmao. Please stop trying to put words into his mouth. He asked a relevant question, and got a relevant answer. You just asked a completely irrelevant question, not related to what he said at all. He said nothing about personal standards, nothing about never wanting to see data. If I gave you a random ass statistic, you would like to know the background of it and where it came from, it's the same thing. So hop off.

No, if I get information from a notoriously secretive developer, I wouldn't complain about it. I'd engage in conversation like a normal person to get more info. . . Instead of acting like random internet troll and causing said developer to clam up again.

Wasted opportunity

Then you my friend, are not good at gathering information. Of course you shouldn't badger someone so much, but when we get something like a graph, that is severely under-labeled, I think it is warranted to ask questions like "How was this data obtained?" "What steps were used to create this information?". The graph seems really inaccurate to what most people believe it's showing. From what I gathered, it says 1/3 of the player base of NA is wearing heavy armor. Does that mean that 1/3 of the player base intends to tank? Or are they DPS? From my own experience, getting a tank in PvE isn't as easy as getting a DPS. So why are so many people wearing heavy armor? Does this graph show how many pieces equipped? If not, then does this mean that players are just running the 5-1-1 meaning that the armor would be split like this because all armor types are present on everyone? These are all valid questions to ask and they heavily affect the validity of the graph and what it actually means.

If it's showing what I think, then it's actually proving the point that DPS are wearing heavy armor for purposes other than tanking. And that is the main issue.

Thelon

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Would it be possible to just have stats collected and shared with the community? Like some of these Diablo 3 stats

http://diablo.somepage.com/info/paragon-distribution

Stats For one Class

http://diablo.somepage.com/popular-2-0/demon-hunter

sploosh

Tornateoh

I do want to thank @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_GinaBruno for presenting this data for us and interactions. We need more interactions from the team. I don't think this data is accurate to the argument, too many factors that aren't shown that affect these numbers, such as DPS, Healer, Tank ratios, but none the less, thank you for attempting to calm the fire. I hope you guys don't let the bad apples spoil the good from the community. I, at least, try my hardest to be respectful and pleasant. I think the people hiding behind their computer screens don't think those traits exist on the internet, but I do.

xellink

Tornateoh wrote: »

If it's showing what I think, then it's actually proving the point that DPS are wearing heavy armor for purposes other than tanking. And that is the main issue.

Why can't players wear heavy armor apart from tanking? People can play tank-DPS hybrids. The meta is shifting to more sustain damage with moderate HP instead of spike damage glass cannons.

Glass cannons have been in the meta since forever in ESO.

In most MMOs... as patches are implemented, players move towards more intelligent and flexible fights and less glass cannon builds. Glass cannon builds are ok but they should work as a team. They are 'specialised' after all.

haunted1994F

+

leepalmer95

xellink wrote: »

Tornateoh wrote: »

If it's showing what I think, then it's actually proving the point that DPS are wearing heavy armor for purposes other than tanking. And that is the main issue.

Why can't players wear heavy armor apart from tanking? People can play tank-DPS hybrids. The meta is shifting to more sustain damage with moderate HP instead of spike damage glass cannons.

Glass cannons have been in the meta since forever in ESO.

In most MMOs... as patches are implemented, players move towards more intelligent and flexible fights and less glass cannon builds. Glass cannon builds are ok but they should work as a team. They are 'specialised' after all.

Those glass cannons just throw on heavy armor and still hit just as hard.

Tornateoh

xellink wrote: »

Tornateoh wrote: »

If it's showing what I think, then it's actually proving the point that DPS are wearing heavy armor for purposes other than tanking. And that is the main issue.

Why can't players wear heavy armor apart from tanking? People can play tank-DPS hybrids. The meta is shifting to more sustain damage with moderate HP instead of spike damage glass cannons.

Glass cannons have been in the meta since forever in ESO.

In most MMOs... as patches are implemented, players move towards more intelligent and flexible fights and less glass cannon builds. Glass cannon builds are ok but they should work as a team. They are 'specialised' after all.

The reason to why there needs to be a line as to how much damage a tank can stack is because this is not a single player game. We are not all Dragonborn, we are not all Agent Bond, we are not all the Hitman, we aren't Batman or Superman or Spider-man or Iron man. A tank-DPS hybrid is more effective than a tank and a DPS in most content, not all. In pvp, it literally ruins the experience as everyone runs around with more than 25k+ health and still are able to kill people because of their dawnbreaker. The fine line between the roles is needed for balance purposes. Heavy armor is intended for tanking, not DPS. Medium and Light armor are intended for DPS, not tanking.

If you've seen the numbers I have, you would understand better, but you can run heavy armor as apposed to medium armor, and loses no damage stats, gain more resource sustain and more armor resistance and healing received.

How I would change the system is, renaming medium and light armor to fighter's and mage's armor and giving them the same resistances (basically make light armor default as medium armor resistance and boost heavy) and rough equivalents of the same passives, solely intended for DPS and sustain. I would rename heavy to Warrior's armor or Tank's armor and make it just that, for tanks. The tanks I've seen can do it all, heal, dps and tank with no resource issues or anything. They might as well be playing Skyrim, because I think they are the next Dragonborn.

I'm not saying *** hybrid builds. Magicka and Stamina hybrids are something I'd like to see excel, but role hybrids should not perform better than the base role itself.

TL;DR Jacks of all Trades shouldn't be better than the master of the trade, but rather a lesser and less powerful version of the real deal.

Tornateoh

leepalmer95 wrote: »

xellink wrote: »

Tornateoh wrote: »

If it's showing what I think, then it's actually proving the point that DPS are wearing heavy armor for purposes other than tanking. And that is the main issue.

Why can't players wear heavy armor apart from tanking? People can play tank-DPS hybrids. The meta is shifting to more sustain damage with moderate HP instead of spike damage glass cannons.

Glass cannons have been in the meta since forever in ESO.

In most MMOs... as patches are implemented, players move towards more intelligent and flexible fights and less glass cannon builds. Glass cannon builds are ok but they should work as a team. They are 'specialised' after all.

Those glass cannons just throw on heavy armor and still hit just as hard.

Hey Lee! And glad you can see what I mean. I think they think that I'm saying ruin heavy armor, but rather I just want balance and heavy can be stronger, just not able to do everything like it can do right now.

phaseadept

Tornateoh wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

Tornateoh wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Actually more pew pew and less qq would make this game better. People that are at the lower end of the bell shaped curve in terms or performance or ability will always complain. What I guarantee is Rich shared with you the data and you blasted him. He won't be doing so again. If Gina said he pulled it today that is what it is. You are not entitled to a pull stamp. We as the customer really have only two choices stay or go.

Not entitled to ask a question? Yes the data was pulled yesterday. It is reasonable to ask how far back the data goes. Is it from 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 Year?

What is wrong with trying to understand data that has been presented to you?

So what you're saying is, you never ever want to see actual data from he developers unless it meets your personal standards?

Where did you pull this question from? Nothing he said actually says anything you are asking, lmao. Please stop trying to put words into his mouth. He asked a relevant question, and got a relevant answer. You just asked a completely irrelevant question, not related to what he said at all. He said nothing about personal standards, nothing about never wanting to see data. If I gave you a random ass statistic, you would like to know the background of it and where it came from, it's the same thing. So hop off.

No, if I get information from a notoriously secretive developer, I wouldn't complain about it. I'd engage in conversation like a normal person to get more info. . . Instead of acting like random internet troll and causing said developer to clam up again.

Wasted opportunity

Then you my friend, are not good at gathering information. Of course you shouldn't badger someone so much, but when we get something like a graph, that is severely under-labeled, I think it is warranted to ask questions like "How was this data obtained?" "What steps were used to create this information?". The graph seems really inaccurate to what most people believe it's showing. From what I gathered, it says 1/3 of the player base of NA is wearing heavy armor. Does that mean that 1/3 of the player base intends to tank? Or are they DPS? From my own experience, getting a tank in PvE isn't as easy as getting a DPS. So why are so many people wearing heavy armor? Does this graph show how many pieces equipped? If not, then does this mean that players are just running the 5-1-1 meaning that the armor would be split like this because all armor types are present on everyone? These are all valid questions to ask and they heavily affect the validity of the graph and what it actually means.

If it's showing what I think, then it's actually proving the point that DPS are wearing heavy armor for purposes other than tanking. And that is the main issue.

There are better ways of going about it that going aggro on any ZOS employees.

The follow up questions you asked, are a way better approach than the one originally taken.

Although I doubt by now there will ever be another response to this thread.

xellink

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Those glass cannons just throw on heavy armor and still hit just as hard.

I don't see you complaining when the Magicka glass cannons can heal as hard...

These guys throw on heavy armor (Specifically the black rose I presume, please be more specific or others will think you are condemning HA as a whole), they gain survivability as well as sustain and a suffer a minor drop in DPS. Its fair.

The majority of players are still not willing to drop DPS for HA as the metagame is still based on spike. But pure stam med armor DPS people are now complaining cause they cannot one shot each other anymore... This is good for the game. Spike damage has owned the metagame for too long.

Pure DPS roles should own the spike damage game but not the sustain game. HA doesn't have a lot in PVP apart from standing there and being ignored. Sustain is the only thing going for them, to survive and drag a fight till their opponent runs out of stam/magicka.

AClockworkLime

Berenhir wrote: »

Actually there is nearly nobody ever pvping. Its not like there were thousands of people roaming cyrodiil every day. Its more like some hundred. And half of them are there every day.

Shh, don't tell them that. Or that they're "hardcore PVPers" because most of the regulars just sit around waiting to gank those lowbies/undergeared players who come in because they're all but forced to in order to get select skills or a few extra skill points that they need or want. Oh, and then to mock them for being there, because that makes them even more "hardcore" for recognizing them, even though they remain oblivious to just how sad and pathetic they themselves are.

phaseadept

Heavy armor is intended for tanking, not DPS. Medium and Light armor are intended for DPS, not tanking.

^^ says who?

Just because other MMOs tend to follow this strategy doesn't mean this one has to. . . Do you remember when everyone was in a dress because heavy armor was useless?

xellink

Tornateoh wrote: »

xellink wrote: »

Tornateoh wrote: »

If it's showing what I think, then it's actually proving the point that DPS are wearing heavy armor for purposes other than tanking. And that is the main issue.

Why can't players wear heavy armor apart from tanking? People can play tank-DPS hybrids. The meta is shifting to more sustain damage with moderate HP instead of spike damage glass cannons.

Glass cannons have been in the meta since forever in ESO.

In most MMOs... as patches are implemented, players move towards more intelligent and flexible fights and less glass cannon builds. Glass cannon builds are ok but they should work as a team. They are 'specialised' after all.

If you've seen the numbers I have, you would understand better, but you can run heavy armor as apposed to medium armor, and loses no damage stats, gain more resource sustain and more armor resistance and healing received.

I'm not saying *** hybrid builds. Magicka and Stamina hybrids are something I'd like to see excel, but role hybrids should not perform better than the base role itself.

Dont' be silly. The damage output from that one single HA, and please I insist on saying Black Rose instead of HA....

...is slightly less than the best DPS med armor sets you have out there. That is fair... In exchange, for wearing medium armor, you gain mobility, which is very important in a vast map compared to that in an arena. There is always a trade off.

Your argument should be that the trade-off is not enough, rather than they are performing the same... Until you recognise that trade off, i don't think we can engage in any meaningful discussion in balance.

Joy_Division

I can't believe the amount of people who argue with data that does not coincide with their presumptions.

Has it ever occurred to you people that the heavy armor Black Rose set is worn pretty much by just some diehards who PvP every night and are obsessive compulsive about squeezing every last drop of efficiency from their builds? And that those people are vastly outnumbered by folks, who even if they have 531 CPs and PvP a lot, have stuck with their old build due to laziness/not enough mats or money/have not been keeping up with the meta/found something similarly effective (i.e. wearing flanking armor in a group)/ or, like myself, still wear 5 light because I was not impressed with Black Rose as a magicka DPS choice.

@ZOS_RichLambert did not doctor the data in a secret conspiracy so Wrobel can keep using an OP set when he leaves work and logs onto his stam toon at night. The fact of the matter is that many many many people in this game do not keep track of every bug, armor set, patch change and build their characters according to ZoS's general guild-lines: magicka should wear 5 lights, stam DPS 5 medium, tanks 5 heavy and go on from their. I would not be surprised if ZoS data showed only a slight decrease in magicka specs because no matter how ineffective I personally think these builds are, I still see a lot of flame reach spammers, crushing shock sorcs, and, amazingly, mDKs; plus, anyone that heals has to play magicka.

That being said, there is no doubt in my mind just because ZoS's hard data would indicate otherwise, PvP is dominated by stam 2h builds because the small minority of people of people who do study this game, play every night, and are very skill wear Black Rose and are disproportionately powerfully.

As I said, I don;t think ZoS interprets their data correctly. Sure, there is an even amount of folks playing light, medium, and heavy, but I do not interpret this as the armor set being balanced, I interpret it as many people who are playing are wither unaware of what is strong or for various reasons have not gotten around to creating a whole new gear set.

xellink

phaseadept wrote: »

Just because other MMOs tend to follow this strategy doesn't mean this one has to. . . Do you remember when everyone was in a dress because heavy armor was useless?

In other MMOs, tanks play pressure while DPS plays spike.

Waffennacht

I was lookin at the stats.

I now wish to see PvP only with 501+ CP

Also just curious why 501 still and not 531 or higher (the up coming CP limit)

I realize I'm not gonna get more info sadly oh well.

But that last bit, the All PvP players 501 (this means PvP only and PvE that stop in for items - like my main dorc that now goes in to buy stuff) i have a feeling that the 501 + PvP only will have a stronger leaning in the armors. Just guessin