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The Draugr Hulk set needs to be removed or completely reworked
arkansas_ESO
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These are my stats with 5 Black Rose, 5 Draugr Hulk, 1pc Selene, 1pc Tremor Scale. No Battle Spirit (so add 5k health for PVP), no War Horn, not in WW form, no potion buff. With 5 heavy and Black Rose, you can sustain perfectly well with 1.1k regen.
For comparison, these are my stats on my magic NB with 5pc Clever Alchemist, 5pc Necropotence, 3pc Willpower. No Battle Spirit buff, no War Horn, not a vampire, with a magic potion buff and Clever Alchemist procced. I only have 50k magic on my DW bar, with 45k on my resto bar.
Even with 1800 recovery, I myself struggling to maintain my resources in prolonged fights. Unlike my stam sorc, who can exchange all of his magicka for stamina with Dark Deal, I have no "trash stat" that I can exchange for more magicka. Even if given the option to trade stamina for magicka, I wouldn't do it, as that means I'd likely die the next time I got CCed.
Basically, what I'm getting at is this: the Draugr Hulk set drastically widens the gap between magicka and stamina. I'm using strong, short-duration buffs like Clever Alchemist and sacrificing both tankiness and sustain to get high stats on magic NB, and stamina is still able to get superior stats without sacrificing much of anything. I strongly, strongly urge ZOS to completely rework this set or remove it before One Tamriel launches, as it will only further imbalance the game.
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Grand Overlord 25/8/17
20
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arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Forgot to mention that neither screenshot has their weapon enchants procced, so you can add an extra 500 weapon/spell damage to each picture.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
ArtOfShred✭✭✭At the very least the pet requirement needs to be removed from Necropotence. Draugr Hulk is just objectively better at this point.7 -
Rjizzle09✭✭✭i agree about the pet removal its senseless really since the pet is squishy and doesnt di hardly any dpd.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm fine with the pet requirments, simply buff it to make it more appealing.
But Hulking Draugr either needs a liddle requirement, temporary limitation or a small nerf.Edited by Dracane on September 11, 2016 10:10AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There should be a Magic counterpart to this set.
Wrobel's Bane
(2 items) Adds X Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds X Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds X Max Magicka
(5 items) Wrobel's Bane
Adds X Max Magicka
*Same values as Hulking Draugr*
This new Magicka set would make sense since there are so many Stamina/Magicka variants to the new sets we got. A small nerf would be nice to Hulking Draugr/Wrobel's Bane as well, but that isn't the particular issue. Stamina being so over the top is the issue atm.
Necropotence is a separate issue. It should add 40% more pet damage dealt on top of its current benefits for the 5-piece.Edited by Vaoh on September 11, 2016 10:30AM15 -
juhasman✭✭✭✭What is most hilarious there is also set that gives 2x max hp 4% healing taken and 6k max hp also with no requirements , or set that gives max hp max magicka max stamina and 2,5k max hp/mag/stam again without any requirements. Seriously something needs to be changed here. About pic posted by @arkansas_ESO allowing people to reach so much max stamina will bring back redguards issue. They had adrenaline rush passive nerfed to lower their stam recovery in fight but with 52k+ stamina redguard will get almost 1,6k stamina each 5 sec which means ~630 regen. Also stamina have incredible set that gives 2k stamina and 300 regen when user have drink active similar set with hp and hp recovery for heavy armor users with food but there is no set with things like this for magicka users. I would change green pact set to give 3k magicka and 200 magicka regen when You have food active.Edited by juhasman on September 11, 2016 10:52AM0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
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Okay
why not.
Would be a reason to use maw of the infernal.Edited by Dracane on September 11, 2016 11:14AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos3 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭You did not give near enough information.
Plus Bound Armaments alone almost make s up for the difference you show which is class specific skill. Not to mention your stam sorc is Red Guard while your NB is a Dark Elf.
Which works well for the damage bonuses but you sacrifice max stats for the damage.
Black rose had two max stam bonuses while Clever Alchmist has no max magica bonuses.
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juhasman✭✭✭✭You did not give near enough information.
Plus Bound Armaments alone almost make s up for the difference you show which is class specific skill. Not to mention your stam sorc is Red Guard while your NB is a Dark Elf.
Which works well for the damage bonuses but you sacrifice max stats for the damage.
Black rose had two max stam bonuses while Clever Alchmist has no max magica bonuses.
Nb have Magicka Flood passive that is equal to Bound Armanents , magicka users have inner light that gives 7% more magicka and meteor that gives 2% more magicka thx for mages guild passives , necropotence gives 4k magicka draugh king 3k stamina so I think differences You described are covered.0 -
Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭I have no problem with sets of this type. It's the Viper, Eternal Hunt, Velidreth type set combo's...You don't hear of any combo set's like that for Magicka at all.
I think lost in all the unbalance talk is that for PVP, nothing on the table currently, or in 1 Tamriel, will matter at all between Stamina and Magicka builds, if PVP (CCbreak, Dodge Roll, Sprint, and Block) all synergize with the Stamina pool "only".
/wave jedimind trick "We'll look into balance the next patch after you purchase "1Tam".
Edited by Cronopoly on September 11, 2016 11:35AM0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find it amusing that once you equip a staff, you lose 5000 [!] magicka.
The whole itemization/weapon system in this game is a joke.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You did not give near enough information.
Plus Bound Armaments alone almost make s up for the difference you show which is class specific skill. Not to mention your stam sorc is Red Guard while your NB is a Dark Elf.
Which works well for the damage bonuses but you sacrifice max stats for the damage.
Black rose had two max stam bonuses while Clever Alchmist has no max magica bonuses.
My stats as a high elf:
Again, no Battle Spirit or Warhorn, magic pot+Clever Alchemist procced. I forgot to mention in my original post that I'm running 5 light, 1 heavy, 1 medium on my magic NB to max out the Undaunted bonuses, while I'm only running 5 heavy/2 medium on my stam sorc. I'm also running Inner Light on my DW bar, and Meteor on my resto bar.
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Grand Overlord 25/8/171 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Both of these numbers seem equally ridiculous to me.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.8 -
exiledtyrant✭✭✭The thing I don't like about the starting example is that it uses the class and race combo with the highest potential stamina and compares it against a race and class combo that does not have the highest potential magicka. If you are going to compare one extreme I think you need to include the other. For that to work you have compare Stamina Sorc Redguard vs Magicka Sorc High Elf. I went ahead and did that and got different results from the OP.
I used two templates . One redguard stamina sorc and one magicka sorc highl elf. Both 300 cp ( 100 red, 100 green, 100 blue). Both had all relevant passives for stamina or magicka. Both had their armor glyphed for health so i didn't have to farm 1 set of hulk and 1 set of necropotence with the same traits. Both used food. Both have only 1 5 piece set, with the rest of the pieces being unrelated sets to leave extra bonuses out.
Redguard
Equipment:
5 piece draugr Hulk
1 piece heavy helm
1 piece light shoulders
3 piece stamina jewelry
1 two handed mace
Passives:
Conditioning 10% stam
Unduanted mettle 6% stam
Bound Armaments 8% stam
Mundus:
Shadow
Food:
Crown Store food
Glyphs:
All Health
CP:
300 (100 red, 100 green, 100 blue)
Total Stam:
37684
High Elf
Equipment:
5 piece necropotence
1 piece heavy helm
1 piece light chest
3 piece magicka jewelry
1 piece medium legs
Passives:
Gift of Magnus 10% magnus
Undaunted mettle 6% magicka
Bound Aegis 8% magicka
Magicka Controller ( inner light and comet) 4% magicka
Necropotence ( from active pet)
Inner light 5% magicka
Mundus:
none
Food:
Crown Store food
Glyphs:
All Health
CP:
300 (100 red, 100 green, 100 blue)
Total Magicka:
40698
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So when set up with for max stamina and max magicka you can see there is still around a 3k gap in magicka's favor. Even adding a 1 piece monster, 5 piece bonus, and resource glyphs the gap should still be maintained. From where I'm sitting it doesn't look like hulk has overstepped magicka yet. Could necropotence get its pet requirement removed? Probably. Is Hulk injecting some type of power gap that magicka needs compensation for? Not to me.
Left is the Redguard template. Right is the High Elf template.
If all are brethren
How could my hands not tremble
As breath fled my prey?
What blinds my vision?
My hands are tools; it must be
The haze of blossoms
-Salous the Penitent2 -
exiledtyrant wrote: »The thing I don't like about the starting example is that it uses the class and race combo with the highest potential stamina and compares it against a race and class combo that does not have the highest potential magicka. If you are going to compare one extreme I think you need to include the other. For that to work you have compare Stamina Sorc Redguard vs Magicka Sorc High Elf. I went ahead and did that and got different results from the OP.
I used two templates . One redguard stamina sorc and one magicka sorc highl elf. Both 300 cp ( 100 red, 100 green, 100 blue). Both had all relevant passives for stamina or magicka. Both had their armor glyphed for health so i didn't have to farm 1 set of hulk and 1 set of necropotence with the same traits. Both used food. Both have only 1 5 piece set, with the rest of the pieces being unrelated sets to leave extra bonuses out.
Redguard
Equipment:
5 piece draugr Hulk
1 piece heavy helm
1 piece light shoulders
3 piece stamina jewelry
1 two handed mace
Passives:
Conditioning 10% stam
Unduanted mettle 6% stam
Bound Armaments 8% stam
Mundus:
Shadow
Food:
Crown Store food
Glyphs:
All Health
CP:
300 (100 red, 100 green, 100 blue)
Total Stam:
37684
High Elf
Equipment:
5 piece necropotence
1 piece heavy helm
1 piece light chest
3 piece magicka jewelry
1 piece medium legs
Passives:
Gift of Magnus 10% magnus
Undaunted mettle 6% magicka
Bound Aegis 8% magicka
Magicka Controller ( inner light and comet) 4% magicka
Necropotence ( from active pet)
Inner light 5% magicka
Mundus:
none
Food:
Crown Store food
Glyphs:
All Health
CP:
300 (100 red, 100 green, 100 blue)
Total Magicka:
40698
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So when set up with for max stamina and max magicka you can see there is still around a 3k gap in magicka's favor. Even adding a 1 piece monster, 5 piece bonus, and resource glyphs the gap should still be maintained. From where I'm sitting it doesn't look like hulk has overstepped magicka yet. Could necropotence get its pet requirement removed? Probably. Is Hulk injecting some type of power gap that magicka needs compensation for? Not to me.
Left is the Redguard template. Right is the High Elf template.
Correct. The issue here is that in order to only get 3k above the max stam. The magicka sorc's front bar has 2 skill slots and back bar will have 3 if it doesnt have inner light. 5 skills! On the other hand the stam toon gets 8 which would allow him to slot the 4 do it all 2h skills (execute, gap closer, dmg spammable, heal/buff). So the sorc sacrificed everything to get barely above the stam toon to the point that its not even a viable build. It would at least be comparable if they removed the pet restriction.Edited by rxw003b14_ESO on September 12, 2016 12:16AM8 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭The OP's nightblade is not the best magicka stacker in the entire game. He miss 1% magicka : dunmer has 9% (altmer has 10%), and both sorc and NB have +8% (NB is passive when sorc is a double slot).
The main problem is that with one of the greatest pvp set (black rose) + this new set (who require nothing special), he has the same stat AND potential with his stamsorc than with his magblade with two "proc" set (33% upime for clever alchemist, shadow required for necropotence). Magicka need some work and special action when stamina have everything passively.
On an other hand, Draugr Hulk will probably be good only for stamsorc, and especially with imperial, redguard, bosmer or orsimer stamsorc, and especially in pvp. In pve, it's 3778 stamina versus 367 weapon damage (more or less the same thing apart for light/heavy attack, and with bound armament the weapon damage are better) and 2k stamina versus 6% critical (crit win), so hunding is still better.0 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As long as there are no soft caps. we will always have sets that are weak or op in different hands , with different builds.Perfect imbalance is impossible without soft capsEdited by Ankael07 on September 12, 2016 12:27AMIf you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.0 -
IxSTALKERxI✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you actually compare damage tooltips while mixing and matching different stamina sets you'll see that draugr is some what balanced with the other stamina options.
Draugr won't be the end all be all of stamina builds. Alchemist / automations has higher damage output than any combo that includes draugr. Spriggan ends up around the same as automations to.
Whilst I do agree magicka is getting the short end of the stick - nerfing 1 set isn't going to change anything lol.NA | PC | Aldmeri DominionLaser Eyes AR 26 Arcanist | Stalker V AR 41 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 31 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 31 Sorc | Nigel the Great of BlackwaterFormer Emperor x11 campaign cyclesVenatus Officer | RIP RÁGE | YouTube Channel1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »You did not give near enough information.
Plus Bound Armaments alone almost make s up for the difference you show which is class specific skill. Not to mention your stam sorc is Red Guard while your NB is a Dark Elf.
Which works well for the damage bonuses but you sacrifice max stats for the damage.
Black rose had two max stam bonuses while Clever Alchmist has no max magica bonuses.
My stats as a high elf:
Again, no Battle Spirit or Warhorn, magic pot+Clever Alchemist procced. I forgot to mention in my original post that I'm running 5 light, 1 heavy, 1 medium on my magic NB to max out the Undaunted bonuses, while I'm only running 5 heavy/2 medium on my stam sorc. I'm also running Inner Light on my DW bar, and Meteor on my resto bar.
You have 2K mag recovery, which is enough sustain compared to your redguard which has to sacrifice a skill slot to sustain stamina.Edited by Anti_Virus on September 12, 2016 3:29PMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »You did not give near enough information.
Plus Bound Armaments alone almost make s up for the difference you show which is class specific skill. Not to mention your stam sorc is Red Guard while your NB is a Dark Elf.
Which works well for the damage bonuses but you sacrifice max stats for the damage.
Black rose had two max stam bonuses while Clever Alchmist has no max magica bonuses.
My stats as a high elf:
Again, no Battle Spirit or Warhorn, magic pot+Clever Alchemist procced. I forgot to mention in my original post that I'm running 5 light, 1 heavy, 1 medium on my magic NB to max out the Undaunted bonuses, while I'm only running 5 heavy/2 medium on my stam sorc. I'm also running Inner Light on my DW bar, and Meteor on my resto bar.
You have 2K mag recovery, which is enough sustain compared to your redguard which has to sacrifice a skill slot to sustain stamina.
His stamina redguard has 5 heavy with Black Rose, so 600 free mag/stam regen. And he is a reguard, so adrenaline rush give him 3% of his max stam each 5 second when he attacks, giving him an additional 627 stam regen.
His real stam regen in combat is equivalent to 1194 + 600 + 627 = 2421.1 -
problem is hulking drugar is basically the new every stam build set, necro is magica sorc only1 -
i agree with the removal or complete ovrhaul. if not they may as well remove magica completely and just make everything in the game cost+scale with stamina
lol 2 years ago, who would have thought they would overshoot stam buffing by a marathon? 0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
problem is hulking drugar is basically the new every stam build set, necro is magica sorc only
Necro work on sorc but also on NB (summon shadow), and with a 4k max magicka for each pet some set like Maw may be useful.
Hulk give less overall damage than hunding on everything except perhaps redguard/imperial sorcerer.0
