The Developers say that hybrid builds are viable, any ideas?

Integral1900 · September 2016

This is a bit of a challenge to all the theory crafters out there

Obviously I'm not talking about something that can one shot a troll but how about a heavyweight pve stamina dragon knight with a huge load of armour, prismatic runes and a greatsword but with enough magic to make that side of the skill lines useful.

Couple of caveats, I like to pose a challenge after all, no pvp or undaunted abilities allowed

Oompuh · September 2016

You basically described a Tank (without the greatsword). Most Tanks in PvE uses all 3 skills. Magicka for Buffs, Taunts, and Utlity., Stamina for Blocks, Taunts, and Buffs. Health for.. well Health. When you stack in 1 resource, you get the most damage and biggest heals. The PvE Tank is the only "hybrid" build because damage does not matter

timidobserver · September 2016

They use viable and possible interchangeably.

Autolycus · September 2016

Hybrid builds are feasible and viable in pvp. They are even feasible for casual pve content, which includes dungeons and open-world events like WBs, dolmens, delves, etc. Some veteran dungeons can forgive hybrid setups too, assuming a moderately qualified player behind the character. Once consideration for trials begins, however, the hybrid theory falls way behind as it pertains to completion standards.

In most cases, at least given my own experience, veteran trials (not hardmode) can be done with a group that isn't "fully geared" (referring to BiS items and min/maxed stats). I've organized and led groups that are half-populated with characters who have never been before, or are wearing outdated gear or lesser quality, and in many cases these runs go fine simply because the other half of the group is fully-geared. But in an ideal trial setting, everyone is carrying their own weight. The time commitment and level of patience that is needed to accomplish a vet trial clear is substantially beyond that of any other pve content, the dps requirements are higher, group coordination and cohesion is an absolute must, and hybrid builds almost never offer the level of dps or utility that is necessary to meet the marks for completion, particularly for hardmode challenges.

I've been running a hybrid setup in pvp lately and it's performed exceptionally well for me. I'm enjoying every bit of it, and I can see the results of the build as they unfold; I'm getting many kills and few deaths, raking in a fair amount of AP and TV doing so, and have few, if any, complaints about the viability of the setup. However, taking this character to do even Gold Coast dailies is a night/day difference compared to my pve setups, for any role (and I do all three roles, fully-geared). The build itself is quite tanky but generates enough offensive power to do more than take a beating, but in pve it pales in comparison to that of a specialized setup.

Roechacca · September 2016

Willing to duel any Dev any time.

Pandorii · September 2016

Being a hybrid [dps] is quite painful, and I expect it will only get worse in Update 12.

The whole time I'm doing content (mostly solo, because I don't want to bring down the group with my gimped DPS), I'm thinking how much easier it would be if I went full stamina or full magicka on my dunmer DK.

It's not really fun to have to squeeze out every ounce of magicka to apply my dots consistently and maintain my stamina-based spammable and heal (vigor).

Then again, it's not really fun to be a magicka player either in a stamina meta.

If someone could convince me that being a hybrid [dps] has some benefit genuine benefits not available to non-hybrids, please share. My hope is fading, but I'm not giving up on it yet.

I run 5 pelinal + 2 leki + 1 kena + 3 willpower.

[Edit: My jewelry is actually Agility. Above is a typo.]

Beardimus · September 2016

Templar Tank healer's work just fine

yodased · September 2016

I think the timestamp of you post is indicative of the substance needed to be on to say a hybrid build is on the same level as a pure magic build and FORGET about a pure stamina build

jedtb16_ESO · September 2016

working on a stam/mag templar now.... i'll let you know how it goes.

for general pve it's fine tho

GrumpyDuckling · September 2016

When and where did the developers say that hybrid builds are viable? I'd like a source.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2016

There are several disadvantages to such builds, but there are also a few advantages that people rarely consider. I tend to do fairly well with mine.

Pros

1. Superior AOE to most stamina builds

2. Superior Single target damage to most magic builds

3. Shield-stacking, dodge-roll spamability, and burst healing from both resource pools.

4. Resource management potential

Cons

1. Less penetration

2. Lower Max resources

3. Having to split CP (particularly when it comes to critical damage)

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2016

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FriedEggSandwich · September 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Being a hybrid [dps] is quite painful, and I expect it will only get worse in Update 12.

The whole time I'm doing content (mostly solo, because I don't want to bring down the group with my gimped DPS), I'm thinking how much easier it would be if I went full stamina or full magicka on my dunmer DK.

It's not really fun to have to squeeze out every ounce of magicka to apply my dots consistently and maintain my stamina-based spammable and heal (vigor).

Then again, it's not really fun to be a magicka player either in a stamina meta.

If someone could convince me that being a hybrid [dps] has some benefit genuine benefits not available to non-hybrids, please share. My hope is fading, but I'm not giving up on it yet.

I run 5 pelinal + 2 leki + 1 kena + 3 willpower.

In pve I believe a hybrid dps would have no advantages over a stacked resource dps. In pvp your advantage would be the element of surprise; opponents would be confused and maybe even taken off guard by your build. You might also potentially be more survivable as a hybrid too, and this would translate to pve also. Although a pve dps has no real need to be survivable.

Oakmontowls_ESO · September 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Being a hybrid [dps] is quite painful, and I expect it will only get worse in Update 12.

The whole time I'm doing content (mostly solo, because I don't want to bring down the group with my gimped DPS), I'm thinking how much easier it would be if I went full stamina or full magicka on my dunmer DK.

It's not really fun to have to squeeze out every ounce of magicka to apply my dots consistently and maintain my stamina-based spammable and heal (vigor).

Then again, it's not really fun to be a magicka player either in a stamina meta.

If someone could convince me that being a hybrid [dps] has some benefit genuine benefits not available to non-hybrids, please share. My hope is fading, but I'm not giving up on it yet.

I run 5 pelinal + 2 leki + 1 kena + 3 willpower.

I'd ditch the third willpower item for a leki's piece cause the spell damage from willpower is useless for you. Alternatively if you don't need the magika from the willpower set you can go agility.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2016

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

Being a hybrid [dps] is quite painful, and I expect it will only get worse in Update 12.

The whole time I'm doing content (mostly solo, because I don't want to bring down the group with my gimped DPS), I'm thinking how much easier it would be if I went full stamina or full magicka on my dunmer DK.

It's not really fun to have to squeeze out every ounce of magicka to apply my dots consistently and maintain my stamina-based spammable and heal (vigor).

Then again, it's not really fun to be a magicka player either in a stamina meta.

If someone could convince me that being a hybrid [dps] has some benefit genuine benefits not available to non-hybrids, please share. My hope is fading, but I'm not giving up on it yet.

I run 5 pelinal + 2 leki + 1 kena + 3 willpower.

I'd ditch the third willpower item for a leki's piece cause the spell damage from willpower is useless for you. Alternatively if you don't need the magika from the willpower set you can go agility.

yeah. Agility is the way to go. Willpower is useful as a two piece, but not as a 3 piece.

Pandorii · September 2016

Yea! All sorry about that. Of course, I run Agility (with weapon damage enchants). I've got about 4k weapon and spell damage buffed. I run tri-stat glyphs on my armor. My stamina pool is alright. My magicka pool not so good, even with inner light, structured entropy, and meteor slotted in my front bar (DW).

olsborg · September 2016

Im thinking that the word VIABLE and GOODis 2 very different things.

Skitttles · September 2016

Viable? Yes. Effective? No.

Mojmir · September 2016

Lol, vote to kick.

Waffennacht · September 2016

I don't run this in PvE really but my stats atm are:

30K magicka
23kish health
20k stam

2200 stam regen

Fully buffed I can just go over 4k weapon damage, un buffed sitting at just above 3k.

Surprisingly didn't lose much damage at all going from 30kish stam to 20k.

Im a sorc so this gives me an 8k hardened ward and plenty of magicka for something like rune prison

Vangy · September 2016

Hmm when you say hybrid, do u mean "dont stack all ur stats into 1 resource" , or do u mean "use lava whip as well as uppercut".

The latter just wont work.... In anything reasonably competitive. If you mean the former, then yes, most worthy PvP builds already are by that definition "hybrids". Ie: My stam DK runs 30k max stam, 32k health and 15k magicka. My magplar runs 32k health, 17k stam and 37k magicka.

I use stamina on my magplar for blocking and the occasional dodge roll while using magicka for offense/defense + mistform mobility. Does that make it a hybrid build? I dont know. But im sure as hell not going to stack 40k+ max mag and run with 9k stam cos that is gona be GGWP. One break free = no stam to do anything else. Same goes in reverse for my DK. The extra magicka on him really helps to keep up wings and volatile armour which are both ridiculously expensive for an average min-max stam toon to keep up 100%. But my stamDK can keep them up both forever cos of the extra magicka + regen I run.

Integral1900 · September 2016

How about a base of pelinals aptitude from the gold coast, the one that mirrors the highest damage from stam or mnagic, then partner it with a full dps set of some kind?

The devs talked about hybrids on one the streams from Pax, a couple of times the question came up and they seemed blasé, as if the idea that hybrid builds being an effective way to play was obvious. I would post a time stamp but the Pax feed was one of the most tedious things I've ever sat through and I cant face wading through it again, they have talked about it on their eso news before.

I just really like the idea of a true hybrid but every pve build I've seen or used just sucks damage wise, I just wanted a way to use some two handed abilities but still have a use for the class abilities which are still largely magical, or maybe even a destruction staff on the back bar

The reason I excluded pvp was because as a former long time customer service worker, too long as it turns out, I have chronic social anxiety and so while I can post things like this and even run vMSA, pvp is out of the question as it could quite literally give me a heart attack, or at least a rather scary murmur as happened in my case

me and the doctors had quite the conversation about it last time at the hospital. It turns out that the primitive part of the brain that feeds chronic anxiety can most definitely tell the difference between an npc and a human.

The exclusion of undaunted was just because levelling it up is so unbearably tedious but hopefully this will be alleviated some with the extra stuff coming in update 12.

Cinbri · September 2016

Hybrids are as viable as templar healer who trying to heal veteran trial with Honor the Dead.

bebynnag · September 2016

i so want to have a hybrid character... but i cant get it right. there are sets in the game now that are designed for hybrids so finding the right combo should be easier.....

i did have some fun with a woodelf templar running alchemist on my back bar & pelinial on my front bar (arcane agility jewelry)
snipe (from stealth) followed by a RO usually took out those wrothgar trolls but he was useless in dungeons

so he went to the nether!

Rykmaar · September 2016

No. If by viable you mean kinda decent, then maybe, but in every other context no, they are not.

In PvP, you are at a disadvantage though not as extreme as the disadvantage you have in PvE. You can make it work in a group.

In actually difficult PvE content, you will never be let into a trial run or vet dungeon run that is reasonably difficult. You are at an extreme critical strike disadvantage. The current PvE dps meta is Crit based.

Furthermore, the one set that they made for hybrids, has resource bonuses in it, no offensive bonuses. This means that you have to pair it with an offensive set for effect, and that puts you at another disadvantage against a player that pairs two offensive sets in their build.

tl;dr ZoS is either lying to our faces when they say it's viable, or they have no clue how to play their game.

Baconlad · September 2016

JUST SO THAT EVERYONE KNOWS.....when using pelinals, which is an amazing set, you MUST only stack one or the other weapon or spell damage. Reason being, if you have 500 bonus to weapon damage, your true weapon damage is 500 and you true spell power is "0". The skills will scale off the false number of spell power being "500". If you put in 400 weapon power, and 100 spell power, the 100 spell power is wasted. As it goes to the true weapon power being 400 and you true spell power of 100. The false numbers on your tool tip will read 400 weapon damage and 400 spell damage....your skills will scale to the 400 spell power and 400 weapon power. So...when using pelinals, stack the damage increase that makes sense for your class, if a templar, stack weapon damage, due to 6%increase in weapon damage passives. If sorc, stack spell. If DK, stack weapon for the 5% minor brutalilty passive...make sense?

the_man_of_steal · September 2016

Integral1900 wrote: »

This is a bit of a challenge to all the theory crafters out there

Obviously I'm not talking about something that can one shot a troll but how about a heavyweight pve stamina dragon knight with a huge load of armour, prismatic runes and a greatsword but with enough magic to make that side of the skill lines useful.

Couple of caveats, I like to pose a challenge after all, no pvp or undaunted abilities allowed

The Devs are kind of right but they are speaking like a Sith would. Hybrid DPS is not really viable. However, hybrid utility is very possible and in some ways can be strong... I was a 160 cp high elf stamplar a few months ago and my honor the dead heal could still crit 8,000 heals plus give me great mag regen... Stam NBs often utilize mag skills such as shadow Image for 15% dmg debuff, concealed weapon for movement speed buffs, etc.

It's a sophist answer but they technically aren't lying.

Erock25 · September 2016

There was a hybrid templar werewolf using pelinal the other day in IC that was absolutely unkillable for me while he was in WW form. He was primarily stam based but had lots of magicka and his WW heal was ridiculous.

Waffennacht · September 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

There was a hybrid templar werewolf using pelinal the other day in IC that was absolutely unkillable for me while he was in WW form. He was primarily stam based but had lots of magicka and his WW heal was ridiculous.

@Gottbeard build probably. Yeah tis a good one.

My hybrid is coming along nicely.

Im looking for the 8k jab hitters and the 12k incap NBs. They seem to be the top of the food chain. I look for them to test. So far, I do give them a serious run for their money.

Found out Eternal Hunt can be used as a serious momentum changer against a gap closer. Roll backwards, they hit run, you counter with a hard CC. Keeps em from being able to go all out offense.

Found that 30k magicka gets you a ward big enough to completely negate a 6k surpise attack.

Combine these with dark conversion and you can actually heal back to full against a 6k swinging, spamming, SA NB.

I couldn't help but think, if I had my complete monster set and gold weapons... I would've won each of my matches.

Almost there...

I've tested oh so many sets and combos. A "hybrid" is very viable, just don't expect a 12k Frag AND a 3K vigor tick (unless you have the physique of an imperal

)

Silver_Strider · September 2016

Hybrid is probably most viable in PvP where all your resources are used much more often than in PvE content and that PvE is all memorization of a handful of mechanics and max damage.

I can't imagine going into a trial with a hybrid (that wasn't just a tank) though as that just doesn't seem wise at all, considering that trials are 90% dps checks, 10% mechanics

Joy_Division · September 2016

The devs are the same people who think training is a worthy trait for end-game reward gear and the templar Healing Ritual Spell is solid healing alternative to Breath of Life.