Crown Store Imbalance, Replayability Concerns, & The Achievement System - An Open Letter

Ixtyr · September 2016

Pardon my long-windedness.

One Tamriel will complete the "casualification" (credit @Dominoid) of ESO. And that's a GREAT thing. But now it's time to focus on less on making ESO "playable" for the masses, and focus more on replayability. Allow me to explain.

Every major change that Zenimax has made to The Elder Scrolls Online in the past several years has largely been focused on redesigning and improving the game to cater to a wider audience, the same audience that left ESO in droves shortly after the PC launch in 2014. The Buy-To-Play business model conversion, the eventual launch of the Console clients, all of the great new DLC content, Veteran Rank removal, and now One Tamriel have finally brought ESO to a point where the masses can truly begin to enjoy this game on a day-to-day basis. I see this first-hand, every day, as the GM (and co-GM) of two different Trade Guilds, as an officer in a casual PvE community, and a fairly hardcore end-game PvE and PvP player - eight months ago, the North American PC megaserver felt deserted, and I struggled to find 2-3 new recruits for my guilds in a given week. I'm now being swarmed with dozens of new players on a seemingly-daily basis. This is an excellent sign for the health of the game. So for that, ZOS, I say, "kudos" - because many other MMOs in recent years have failed to see continued growth after two and a half months, let alone two and a half years.

But now that you've successfully begun to get new players to JOIN your game, I think it's about time that we address an issue that I believe has gone criminally unaddressed since Day One: lack of proper & diverse in-game incentives.

In most other games, certainly in other MMOs, the "Achievement" systems have been used as a means to incentivize players to continue playing the game continuously, perform tasks both normal and strange, and grind out various things on a regular basis. Achievements have always been a way to keep players interested between patch drops, or give players a reason to branch out of their comfort zones to unlock a cool thing (let's call it a "shiny") on their account.

But in ESO, the existing Achievement system has gone grossly underutilized, particularly with certain types of content. Let me offer some examples:

Daily/Solo -

There are so many opportunities to see the Achievement System improved for solo or daily-type content. Things like 100% Exploration and finding all Lorebooks could have far more tied to them than a simple Title - How about Costumes, or a nifty "Explorer's Hat", for a start? Or how about Master Angler - let Master Fishermen & Fisherwomen (not sure if actually a word) unlock the ability to SKIN Rare or Epic fish for a higher chance at Perfect Roe! The possibilities are endless, but I'll point to the "Collections" achievements to make my point: currently, if you collect every trophy from random mob drops in the entire game, you get. . .well, basically nothing. A dye color. Great, I guess - but I can only use 3 Dyes at a time, and have one Title active. Can't a citizen of Tamriel get a cute little minipet for their troubles? Seriously. . .it takes FOREVER to get all of those darned trophies.

PvE -

In the One Tamriel patch, ZOS has added an entirely new category in the Achievement window for "Veteran Dungeon" accomplishments. Ignoring the borderline-insulting fact that "Trials" achievements have been left as a sub-category under "Normal Dungeons", we've actually begun to see some slight progress here. The new Shadows of the Hist DLC, as well as the vMoL achievement, have given us cool cosmetic skins that are actually somewhat enticing to chase after. There's still a lot of room for improvement here, as I'd love to see new pets or costumes tied to some of these achievements (especially the "Complete All Achievements Associated With XYZ Dungeon" type things), and especially with some of the concerns related to all Trials & Dungeon loot being Bind-on-Pickup in Update 12, I fear that replayability of content, especially Veteran Trials, is being thrust further into jeopardy. But let me now move on to PvP.

PvP -

In PvP, there are very few "shinies" to be earned via in-game play. First, of course, there's the Title, Costume & Dye associated with Emperorship - which I think is perfectly adequate - but beyond that, there's really almost nothing to gain by regularly and continually playing in PvP. We get one new character title for every two AvA Ranks, and a new Dye color for every four. . .and that's it. Because of this lack of really any sense of meaningful progression, PvP in ESO has largely become "that thing you have to do to unlock Caltrops", after which time you leave and never go back. And that's a shame, especially with the new improvements of Capturable Towns & Districts and the addition of Dueling. I'm sorry, but a new dye color every few months is not much of an incentive to keep playing - that's just the honest truth.

And this brings us to The Crown Store.

Look. Unlike some, I actually like the Crown Store. Just look at my bank statements, the amount of money I've spent in there is just stupid. But I think we've reached a place that many players feared when it comes to in-game Cash Shops. Namely, there's a critical imbalance in how some content has been developed disproportionately for monetization at the expense of the in-game experience.

Case-in-point? Mounts.

Since ESO launched in late March of 2014, we have never seen the addition of a single mount that can be attained via in-game play. You have your 3-4 basic horses from the Stables, and that's it. Mini-pets are almost as bad, with a mere 4-5 available via in-game play (Dwemer Spider, an Echalette, the Thieves Guild Jackal, the Imperial City Scamp & Hoarvor. . .and I think that's it) - but the lack of any additional in-game Mounts is just ridiculous. Every fiscal quarter, ZOS has released anywhere from 3-5+ new mounts into the Crown Store for purchase, and yet not one of them has been added to the game to be attained through any means.

I get it, revenue is important - but by not allowing for any way for a player to attain a "cool" or "alternative" mount in-game, even if it means you might need to grind and work at it for a bit, you're losing out on added playtime and a higher likelihood of subscription from a huge portion of the playerbase. There have been dozens of variants of Horses, Senches, Wolves, Guars, Bears, etc., added to the store - you're telling me that you can't add a simple re-skinned Wolf to a "Complete All Gold Coast Dailies 50 Times" achievement?

Or, more poignantly, you can't add that new "Alliance War Horse" mount from the PTS as a reward for PvP? Make that the reward for reaching AvA Rank 25, or 20, or 30, or whatever the heck you think is appropriate. Heck, if it was up to me, anyone who hits AvA Rank 50 should get a freakin' Chariot Mount - 64+ million AP is worth more than a Dye Color!

---

Look. I've been playing ESO non-stop since mid-Beta. With the exception of Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, I've basically accomplished everything this game has to offer: I've been Emperor, I've cleared vSO and vHRC and vAA progressions, I've done all of the PvE content, completed every quest in the base game and have all-but finished every DLC. I may very well be approaching the end of my in-game life cycle for ESO, but I still haven't quite had my fill yet. So I still login on a [mostly] nightly basis, looking for simple things to do to pass the time as I patiently await the story that will come with Clockwork City, The Spiral Skein & the like, and you know what? There's still plenty of those Achievements on the board that I haven't quite finished yet (I mean, heck, I still have some 40 million AP to go until AvA Rank 50) - and yet, I find myself struggling to see a reason to bother trying.

And I'm not alone in that - I get it, I'm a bit of a statistical outlier among the current playerbase. Most players aren't full-game completionist basket-cases like me! But for those less-total-completion-minded players, these sorts of incentives are even more important. Many of the players in one of my more casual-friendly social guilds are "one-trick ponies" - they stick to one type of content that they like, and that's it. They're questers, or small-group PvEers, or casual PvP players, and they stick to their thing and neglect much of the rest of the game. And I continue to watch them come and go - they pick up the game, play for 30-45 days, hit max level, finish their quests, get in a few PvP campaign weeks on Haderus, and then they're gone, having lost sight of any meaningful reason to replay anything they've already done once before. Why? Well, there's certainly more than one reason - but I think a big reason is the fact that they just don't have an incentive to try something new, or replay that dungeon they already cleared.

Give those players some carrots to work towards. Make some carrots harder to get than others, sure - vMoL, Emperorship, etc., these are all things that should remain difficult. But give players more of a reason to make an effort to chase those carrots. Give players a reason to replay your content more than once, content you've spent months dreaming up and developing. USE your Achievement System, and entice players to keep playing after their first few weeks, because the longer we play, the more likely we are to subscribe, to spend money, and to bring our friends into ESO to do the same exact thing.

Signed,
Ixy

Sallington · September 2016

Agreed on everything.

Also, Zos, crap RNG systems are NOT the same thing as replayability.

Oliviander · September 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Agreed on everything.

Also, Zos, crap RNG systems are NOT the same thing as replayability.

Great Statement - Great Comment

Elyu · September 2016

Ixtyr wrote: »

Or how about Master Angler - let Master Fishermen & Fisherwomen (not sure if actually a word) unlock the ability to SKIN Rare or Epic fish for a higher chance at Perfect Roe!

Agree.

PvE: Also agree, put trials achievements under their own tab, and have vet mode dungeons / trials reward 'permanent' account-wide benefits (skin / costume / pet / MOUNT etc)

PvP: ofc, agree again. I still play pvp beyond caltrops, but that's mainly because of WHO I play with (small group vs zerg gameplay) than being 1-shot by viper+velidreth stamblades.

Mounts: AGREE AGREE AGREE. Especially with the addition of the new alliance mounts + costume. These SHOULD NOT be in the crown store, they should be locked to pvp rank. Costume at whatever part-level of the alliance rank system sets you at max alliance war skill level (10). There should be multiple alliance mounts, at different pvp ranks. A slightly shiny one at pvp 20, a 'catch-the-eye' one at pvp 30, and 'turn heads' one at pvp 40, and an OTT banner+alliance design+dyable saddle tabards one at pvp 50.

Make it happen!

redspecter23 · September 2016

Once a game adds a real money store, you tend to see the end of in game acquired cosmetics. Mounts, pets and more go directly into the crown store as a means to generate revenue. Any cosmetic aspect tied to a game achievement probably has to go through rigorous marketing team meetings to make sure it won't cut into the bottom line. I'm not saying I agree with the practice. I see why they do it, but it comes at a cost to in game achievements which you've noted multiple times in your post.

Psilent · September 2016

Ixtyr wrote: »

Pardon my long-windedness.

One Tamriel will complete the "casualification" (credit @Dominoid) of ESO. And that's a GREAT thing. But now it's time to focus on less on making ESO "playable" for the masses, and focus more on replayability. Allow me to explain.

Every major change that Zenimax has made to The Elder Scrolls Online in the past several years has largely been focused on redesigning and improving the game to cater to a wider audience, the same audience that left ESO in droves shortly after the PC launch in 2014. The Buy-To-Play business model conversion, the eventual launch of the Console clients, all of the great new DLC content, Veteran Rank removal, and now One Tamriel have finally brought ESO to a point where the masses can truly begin to enjoy this game on a day-to-day basis. I see this first-hand, every day, as the GM (and co-GM) of two different Trade Guilds, as an officer in a casual PvE community, and a fairly hardcore end-game PvE and PvP player - eight months ago, the North American PC megaserver felt deserted, and I struggled to find 2-3 new recruits for my guilds in a given week. I'm now being swarmed with dozens of new players on a seemingly-daily basis. This is an excellent sign for the health of the game. So for that, ZOS, I say, "kudos" - because many other MMOs in recent years have failed to see continued growth after two and a half months, let alone two and a half years.

But now that you've successfully begun to get new players to JOIN your game, I think it's about time that we address an issue that I believe has gone criminally unaddressed since Day One: lack of proper & diverse in-game incentives.

In most other games, certainly in other MMOs, the "Achievement" systems have been used as a means to incentivize players to continue playing the game continuously, perform tasks both normal and strange, and grind out various things on a regular basis. Achievements have always been a way to keep players interested between patch drops, or give players a reason to branch out of their comfort zones to unlock a cool thing (let's call it a "shiny") on their account.

But in ESO, the existing Achievement system has gone grossly underutilized, particularly with certain types of content. Let me offer some examples:

Daily/Solo -

There are so many opportunities to see the Achievement System improved for solo or daily-type content. Things like 100% Exploration and finding all Lorebooks could have far more tied to them than a simple Title - How about Costumes, or a nifty "Explorer's Hat", for a start? Or how about Master Angler - let Master Fishermen & Fisherwomen (not sure if actually a word) unlock the ability to SKIN Rare or Epic fish for a higher chance at Perfect Roe! The possibilities are endless, but I'll point to the "Collections" achievements to make my point: currently, if you collect every trophy from random mob drops in the entire game, you get. . .well, basically nothing. A dye color. Great, I guess - but I can only use 3 Dyes at a time, and have one Title active. Can't a citizen of Tamriel get a cute little minipet for their troubles? Seriously. . .it takes FOREVER to get all of those darned trophies.

PvE -

In the One Tamriel patch, ZOS has added an entirely new category in the Achievement window for "Veteran Dungeon" accomplishments. Ignoring the borderline-insulting fact that "Trials" achievements have been left as a sub-category under "Normal Dungeons", we've actually begun to see some slight progress here. The new Shadows of the Hist DLC, as well as the vMoL achievement, have given us cool cosmetic skins that are actually somewhat enticing to chase after. There's still a lot of room for improvement here, as I'd love to see new pets or costumes tied to some of these achievements (especially the "Complete All Achievements Associated With XYZ Dungeon" type things), and especially with some of the concerns related to all Trials & Dungeon loot being Bind-on-Pickup in Update 12, I fear that replayability of content, especially Veteran Trials, is being thrust further into jeopardy. But let me now move on to PvP.

PvP -

In PvP, there are very few "shinies" to be earned via in-game play. First, of course, there's the Title, Costume & Dye associated with Emperorship - which I think is perfectly adequate - but beyond that, there's really almost nothing to gain by regularly and continually playing in PvP. We get one new character title for every two AvA Ranks, and a new Dye color for every four. . .and that's it. Because of this lack of really any sense of meaningful progression, PvP in ESO has largely become "that thing you have to do to unlock Caltrops", after which time you leave and never go back. And that's a shame, especially with the new improvements of Capturable Towns & Districts and the addition of Dueling. I'm sorry, but a new dye color every few months is not much of an incentive to keep playing - that's just the honest truth.

And this brings us to The Crown Store.

Look. Unlike some, I actually like the Crown Store. Just look at my bank statements, the amount of money I've spent in there is just stupid. But I think we've reached a place that many players feared when it comes to in-game Cash Shops. Namely, there's a critical imbalance in how some content has been developed disproportionately for monetization at the expense of the in-game experience.

Case-in-point? Mounts.

Since ESO launched in late March of 2014, we have never seen the addition of a single mount that can be attained via in-game play. You have your 3-4 basic horses from the Stables, and that's it. Mini-pets are almost as bad, with a mere 4-5 available via in-game play (Dwemer Spider, an Echalette, the Thieves Guild Jackal, the Imperial City Scamp & Hoarvor. . .and I think that's it) - but the lack of any additional in-game Mounts is just ridiculous. Every fiscal quarter, ZOS has released anywhere from 3-5+ new mounts into the Crown Store for purchase, and yet not one of them has been added to the game to be attained through any means.

I get it, revenue is important - but by not allowing for any way for a player to attain a "cool" or "alternative" mount in-game, even if it means you might need to grind and work at it for a bit, you're losing out on added playtime and a higher likelihood of subscription from a huge portion of the playerbase. There have been dozens of variants of Horses, Senches, Wolves, Guars, Bears, etc., added to the store - you're telling me that you can't add a simple re-skinned Wolf to a "Complete All Gold Coast Dailies 50 Times" achievement?

Or, more poignantly, you can't add that new "Alliance War Horse" mount from the PTS as a reward for PvP? Make that the reward for reaching AvA Rank 25, or 20, or 30, or whatever the heck you think is appropriate. Heck, if it was up to me, anyone who hits AvA Rank 50 should get a freakin' Chariot Mount - 64+ million AP is worth more than a Dye Color!

---

Look. I've been playing ESO non-stop since mid-Beta. With the exception of Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, I've basically accomplished everything this game has to offer: I've been Emperor, I've cleared vSO and vHRC and vAA progressions, I've done all of the PvE content, completed every quest in the base game and have all-but finished every DLC. I may very well be approaching the end of my in-game life cycle for ESO, but I still haven't quite had my fill yet. So I still login on a [mostly] nightly basis, looking for simple things to do to pass the time as I patiently await the story that will come with Clockwork City, The Spiral Skein & the like, and you know what? There's still plenty of those Achievements on the board that I haven't quite finished yet (I mean, heck, I still have some 40 million AP to go until AvA Rank 50) - and yet, I find myself struggling to see a reason to bother trying.

And I'm not alone in that - I get it, I'm a bit of a statistical outlier among the current playerbase. Most players aren't full-game completionist basket-cases like me! But for those less-total-completion-minded players, these sorts of incentives are even more important. Many of the players in one of my more casual-friendly social guilds are "one-trick ponies" - they stick to one type of content that they like, and that's it. They're questers, or small-group PvEers, or casual PvP players, and they stick to their thing and neglect much of the rest of the game. And I continue to watch them come and go - they pick up the game, play for 30-45 days, hit max level, finish their quests, get in a few PvP campaign weeks on Haderus, and then they're gone, having lost sight of any meaningful reason to replay anything they've already done once before. Why? Well, there's certainly more than one reason - but I think a big reason is the fact that they just don't have an incentive to try something new, or replay that dungeon they already cleared.

Give those players some carrots to work towards. Make some carrots harder to get than others, sure - vMoL, Emperorship, etc., these are all things that should remain difficult. But give players more of a reason to make an effort to chase those carrots. Give players a reason to replay your content more than once, content you've spent months dreaming up and developing. USE your Achievement System, and entice players to keep playing after their first few weeks, because the longer we play, the more likely we are to subscribe, to spend money, and to bring our friends into ESO to do the same exact thing.

Signed,
Ixy

Agree with this post 100%. I'm a rank 40 PvP player and have lost motivation to PvP; only login for raid nights now. I've started doing PvE Trials, but that lasted all of two weeks. Laughed when I saw no achievements or reward for doing hard modes in vAA, VSO, vHRM.

redspecter23 wrote: »

Once a game adds a real money store, you tend to see the end of in game acquired cosmetics. Mounts, pets and more go directly into the crown store as a means to generate revenue. Any cosmetic aspect tied to a game achievement probably has to go through rigorous marketing team meetings to make sure it won't cut into the bottom line. I'm not saying I agree with the practice. I see why they do it, but it comes at a cost to in game achievements which you've noted multiple times in your post.

Not true. WoW has an in game cash shop which sells mounts/pets, but still offer mounts as rewards through quests, rare drops, achievements, etc.

Agalloch · September 2016

Agreed on everything.

ZOS could inspire from GW2 ..where achievements rewards are better ( skins, gems ( like Eso crowns), xp ..gold find increase ,finding magic items increase, titles ..more incentive.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Achievement_rewards

Mettaricana · September 2016

Love this that was actually something I loved on tera online there were mounts and costume larrs unlocked via achievements I got a skeleton bone demonic armored horse called a death charger on tera it was awesome. Eso hey that same generic horse any 13 year old woth a credit card from mom can get

Rykmaar · September 2016

Well said.

I'm afraid we need to keep in mind that there could be a discrepancy between what the devs are doing/want and what the business people are doing/want. If they feel that they need to focus more on the cash shop to make money, the devs will do that.

However, one thing that ZOS needs to change are these quarterly or longer turnaround times for balance fixes. That is unacceptable for a lot of reasons. Furthermore, we've been complaining about some of the same bugs and glitches for ages without confirmation that they exist, or confirmation that they're being working on.

I think it's telling when glaring balance/bug/glitch issues persist in the game but they sure do spend time adding stuff to the cash shop.

Carbonised · September 2016

Scenario 1: Add new cosmetics to the game for free, obtainable through achievements

Scenario 2: Add new cosmestics to the crown shop for dollar$

Scenario 3: Add new cosmetics to the crown crates for even more dollar$$$

You pretty much only have to look at the latest interview given, where crown crates were introduced, to see where the incentives of this game are going.

"Cosmetics" in this case being endless pisspoor reskins of pets and mounts already in game.

Ixtyr · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Scenario 1: Add new cosmetics to the game for free, obtainable through achievements

Scenario 2: Add new cosmestics to the crown shop for dollar$

Scenario 3: Add new cosmetics to the crown crates for even more dollar$$$

You pretty much only have to look at the latest interview given, where crown crates were introduced, to see where the incentives of this game are going.

"Cosmetics" in this case being endless pisspoor reskins of pets and mounts already in game.

When they're cranking out as many of these cosmetics per quarter as they are, there's really no reason why we couldn't expect them to be able to do a somewhat balanced mixture of all three of those scenarios.

Garwulf · September 2016

Think you are being too logical. Only money drives the ZoS machine. Your pleasure in playing the game has been 'put out to pasture' and will soon be delivered to the knackers yard.

This game has now become as boring as Skyrim. A game that needed lots of addons just to keep it slightly interesting and a game I could never bother finishing as you became a God well before the game ended and therefore no incentive to continue. One Tamriel is the final step .

SlayerTheDragon · September 2016

@Ixtyr

Well done. Well said.

CasNation · September 2016

Excellent post. I have been worried about this sort of thing for some time. Having been around since beta myself, I remember a time when a maxed out speed horse meant something. You saw that the player had put the time and effort in to obtain the fastest mount in the game. Then the crown store came and mount became just another reskin.

I don't play WoW, but they seem to have gotten their cosmetic model right. Sure they sell mounts and stuff too, BUT they also have in game stuff you can earn/grind. In my opinion, the dromathra senche should have been the reward for vMoL hardmode. But instead it was a criminally overpriced reskin. They probably made way more money on it too. Disappointing all around.

Dagoth_Rac · September 2016

Psilent wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Once a game adds a real money store, you tend to see the end of in game acquired cosmetics. Mounts, pets and more go directly into the crown store as a means to generate revenue. Any cosmetic aspect tied to a game achievement probably has to go through rigorous marketing team meetings to make sure it won't cut into the bottom line. I'm not saying I agree with the practice. I see why they do it, but it comes at a cost to in game achievements which you've noted multiple times in your post.

Not true. WoW has an in game cash shop which sells mounts/pets, but still offer mounts as rewards through quests, rare drops, achievements, etc.

WoW is subscription required. So anyone who earns those in-game rewards paid for them, indirectly, by subscribing. ZOS is likely hesitant to add in-game rewards to a game that does not require a subscription.

Carbonised · September 2016

Ixtyr wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Scenario 1: Add new cosmetics to the game for free, obtainable through achievements

Scenario 2: Add new cosmestics to the crown shop for dollar$

Scenario 3: Add new cosmetics to the crown crates for even more dollar$$$

You pretty much only have to look at the latest interview given, where crown crates were introduced, to see where the incentives of this game are going.

"Cosmetics" in this case being endless pisspoor reskins of pets and mounts already in game.

When they're cranking out as many of these cosmetics per quarter as they are, there's really no reason why we couldn't expect them to be able to do a somewhat balanced mixture of all three of those scenarios.

Hey mate, I agree completely with you.

I just don't think there is any chance at all they'll do that, as long as the bottom line is all about the moneyz.

The amount of time they use on expanding their crown store shows where their priorities lie plain and clear to see. The introduction of crown crates (which will just be the beginning of adding even more microtransactions to their store) shows this even further.

Give it half a year and we'll have unbind tokens in the store, they have already confirmed crate/gamble exclusive cosmetics, and I am quite sure this is just the beginning.

Pretty much the only chance we have to give them feedback (that they will listen to) is to not buy from their lousy gamble crates and not make them rich from crown store cosmestics that should have been in the game for free. Let us support them via ESO +, and at the same time make it clear that we expect them to make the game worthwhile that subscription without having to spend a fortune in their store for rewards and cosmetics.

Psilent · September 2016

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Once a game adds a real money store, you tend to see the end of in game acquired cosmetics. Mounts, pets and more go directly into the crown store as a means to generate revenue. Any cosmetic aspect tied to a game achievement probably has to go through rigorous marketing team meetings to make sure it won't cut into the bottom line. I'm not saying I agree with the practice. I see why they do it, but it comes at a cost to in game achievements which you've noted multiple times in your post.

Not true. WoW has an in game cash shop which sells mounts/pets, but still offer mounts as rewards through quests, rare drops, achievements, etc.

WoW is subscription required. So anyone who earns those in-game rewards paid for them, indirectly, by subscribing. ZOS is likely hesitant to add in-game rewards to a game that does not require a subscription.

I get that, but new content requires you to either buy the DLC or have a subscription.

Rykmaar · September 2016

I think ESO can be summed up in rather succintly. I don't make this statement lightly -- I'm a die hard Elder Scrolls fan and have been since my childhood. It is my favorite fantasy IP and always will be. I want this game to be good. I want the PvP and PvE to be engaging and I want there to be something to strive for. Unfortunately, there isn't. There's little to strive for aside from titles and achievements. With that, here's my take:

PvP doesn't have structured content or a reward structure that provides unique rewards based on skill. PvE doesn't have content that forces players into a progression ladder that rewards the gradual accumulation of power. Dat cash shop though. That's well developed. It'll have seasons too, and a gambling aspect to it. PvP doesn't even have seasons, but the cash shop sure will!

Ghost-Shot · September 2016

At the very least there should be a version of each mount type that can be bought at the stables but I would love to see more unique mounts as achievements or boss drops. The dro-mathra senche should have been a rare drop in MoL.

Trublz · September 2016

You my friend...
Hit the nail on the head
Are right on the money
Pinned the tail on the donkey
Are spot on
Hit a bulls eye
Got a bingo
Pu your finger on it
Home run
Touchdown
Goal
Have won the discussion!

Ixtyr · September 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

At the very least there should be a version of each mount type that can be bought at the stables but I would love to see more unique mounts as achievements or boss drops. The dro-mathra senche should have been a rare drop in MoL.

Right. My point with mounts is that if they add 24 new mounts to the game in a year, go ahead and monetize 20 of them - but add at least a FEW of the cool ones to tasks we need to do in game. Keep us playing during those lulls between patches. It's just healthier for the game that way.

Rykmaar wrote: »

I think ESO can be summed up in rather succintly. I don't make this statement lightly -- I'm a die hard Elder Scrolls fan and have been since my childhood. It is my favorite fantasy IP and always will be. I want this game to be good. I want the PvP and PvE to be engaging and I want there to be something to strive for. Unfortunately, there isn't. There's little to strive for aside from titles and achievements. With that, here's my take:

PvP doesn't have structured content or a reward structure that provides unique rewards based on skill. PvE doesn't have content that forces players into a progression ladder that rewards the gradual accumulation of power. Dat cash shop though. That's well developed. It'll have seasons too, and a gambling aspect to it. PvP doesn't even have seasons, but the cash shop sure will!

The lack of seasonality in PvE and especially PvP really bothers me. There's literally no real tangible incentive to play regularly built into the game for most players. And that just sucks. If every quarter, the top 10% of players in terms of AP gain got some sort of Mount or Pet or something to add to their House, PvP would be so much more popular. People want stuff they can SHOW OFF! Make a lot of that stuff tied to the Cash Shop so you can make money, sure, but not ALL of it.

Minno · September 2016

Good post. Sometimes replay value could mean more money spent in cash shop (if done right and not done to make the player become "addicted" to the RNG).

Here's some ideas:
- scale dolmens to increase difficulty based on RNG. If the named boss drops, be prepared for a mini-trial fight. Gear and loot to scale as well. Introduce similar mechanics to the random portal events. Introduce a questlines that explains a way to find these areas or ways to beat the bosses.
- offer mechanics, skill lines, quests to players that focus entirely on trade or crafting. With player housing coming, it might make sense to award those that value a domesticated lifestyle (play the market, control resource farms, etc ). Could be cool to see those players affect the pve/pvp worlds.

Basically ZOS needs to see how the player interacts with their game and give many angles on how to play. Gives us reasons to roll new characters instead of entirely dmg focused endeavors.

Rykmaar · September 2016

Ixtyr wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

At the very least there should be a version of each mount type that can be bought at the stables but I would love to see more unique mounts as achievements or boss drops. The dro-mathra senche should have been a rare drop in MoL.

Right. My point with mounts is that if they add 24 new mounts to the game in a year, go ahead and monetize 20 of them - but add at least a FEW of the cool ones to tasks we need to do in game. Keep us playing during those lulls between patches. It's just healthier for the game that way.

Rykmaar wrote: »

I think ESO can be summed up in rather succintly. I don't make this statement lightly -- I'm a die hard Elder Scrolls fan and have been since my childhood. It is my favorite fantasy IP and always will be. I want this game to be good. I want the PvP and PvE to be engaging and I want there to be something to strive for. Unfortunately, there isn't. There's little to strive for aside from titles and achievements. With that, here's my take:

PvP doesn't have structured content or a reward structure that provides unique rewards based on skill. PvE doesn't have content that forces players into a progression ladder that rewards the gradual accumulation of power. Dat cash shop though. That's well developed. It'll have seasons too, and a gambling aspect to it. PvP doesn't even have seasons, but the cash shop sure will!

The lack of seasonality in PvE and especially PvP really bothers me. There's literally no real tangible incentive to play regularly built into the game for most players. And that just sucks. If every quarter, the top 10% of players in terms of AP gain got some sort of Mount or Pet or something to add to their House, PvP would be so much more popular. People want stuff they can SHOW OFF! Make a lot of that stuff tied to the Cash Shop so you can make money, sure, but not ALL of it.

It's the biggest problem in this game, the lack of progression is. I get into this debate with people in game all the time who tell me there's "loads" of content in the game. Yes, there's a lot in the game, but all of that stuff is moot if its all gifted up front with no incentive to progress, no overarching goal to strive for. This game rewards grinding for grinding's sake (whether its AP in Cyrodiil or monster helms in PvE).

In two weeks, after 1T comes out, everyone is going to have the sets they wanted golded out and will be faced with nothing to do or work towards.

It makes me sad, because this is my favorite IP, but ZoS is making this a largely social game built around a cash shop with some things to do to occupy your time.

Ixtyr · September 2016

Rykmaar wrote: »

In two weeks, after 1T comes out, everyone is going to have the sets they wanted golded out and will be faced with nothing to do or work towards.

One Tamriel is supposed to be something that gives everyone a real reason to go to all of the zones in the game again after questing in them. But they're missing the opportunity with what's currently on the PTS. Once people farm the *** out of the few gear sets they may or may not care about in a few days, they'll be deserted again in a few weeks. Rewarding running dailies regularly or adding rare drops for cosmetics would actually keep a lot more players interested for FAR longer.

Sallington · September 2016

Just take the flaming bird mount from the whats-its-name dungeon in WoW BC as an example. That sure as hell kept people running that raid.

We need more mounts, pets, titles, and dyes from:

Achievements
Trial clears
Vet Dungeon final bosses
Dolmens
World Bosses
AvA Ranks
Holiday Events

I'm sure there's more. Achievements would be a big one. There are so many achievements in ESO, so many opportunities to add more, yet 95% of them only reward points that do absolutely nothing for your character.

EDIT: Side thought: It would be great if they added random, "roaming' dolmen events throughout the world. Maybe a couple a day, every few hours. Have some giant new dolmen being created, scaled for like 40-50 people to close it. Something big enough where people from different zones would rush over to help close it. The game needs something like this. Some type of giant world events.

Rykmaar · September 2016

Ixtyr wrote: »

Rykmaar wrote: »

In two weeks, after 1T comes out, everyone is going to have the sets they wanted golded out and will be faced with nothing to do or work towards.

One Tamriel is supposed to be something that gives everyone a real reason to go to all of the zones in the game again after questing in them. But they're missing the opportunity with what's currently on the PTS. Once people farm the *** out of the few gear sets they may or may not care about in a few days, they'll be deserted again in a few weeks. Rewarding running dailies regularly or adding rare drops for cosmetics would actually keep a lot more players interested for FAR longer.

Yeah, that's one idea for sure.

I applaud them for trying to spur interest in zones. The issue with this is that there is nothing that you will be doing in those zones post release that doesn't come down to farming/grinding for gear sets you want. Once that is done, we're back at square one.

Lack of endgame progression.

They really need to take a page out of other MMOs with trials and organize them into steps. They need to encourage people to do vet. Next we need new trials that really require you use gear obtained in previous trials.

rhapsodious · September 2016

It'd be nice to get a reward for reaching X Achievement points. My main has over 18000, which is no easy feat, but I'm not rewarded for it beyond getting to see a big number on my account. As in, yes, I obviously got rewards from some of the individual achievements, but cumulatively there's no reward.

Also would like a memento or something for Eidetic Memory. I've read 2850+ lorebooks, damn it! I want a shiny! Hunting those down is actually pretty fun, even with an addon.

I like hunting down achievements for my own sake, but to be rewarded more would help, too. A lot of people don't bother with a lot of the more obscure achievements because there's no incentive. It's already been mentioned here, but Craglorn Trials Conqueror awards 50 points. That's it. Like, what?

Sallington · September 2016

Rykmaar wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Rykmaar wrote: »

In two weeks, after 1T comes out, everyone is going to have the sets they wanted golded out and will be faced with nothing to do or work towards.

One Tamriel is supposed to be something that gives everyone a real reason to go to all of the zones in the game again after questing in them. But they're missing the opportunity with what's currently on the PTS. Once people farm the *** out of the few gear sets they may or may not care about in a few days, they'll be deserted again in a few weeks. Rewarding running dailies regularly or adding rare drops for cosmetics would actually keep a lot more players interested for FAR longer.

Yeah, that's one idea for sure.

I applaud them for trying to spur interest in zones. The issue with this is that there is nothing that you will be doing in those zones post release that doesn't come down to farming/grinding for gear sets you want. Once that is done, we're back at square one.

Lack of endgame progression.

They really need to take a page out of other MMOs with trials and organize them into steps. They need to encourage people to do vet. Next we need new trials that really require you use gear obtained in previous trials.

I 100% agree that Trials need to be on a more tiered system than they are now. There should be an obvious progression through the different trails, and I think the BoP sets from each should get progressively stronger. There's the problem with those sets being too strong in PvP, so just give them very strong PvE set bonuses.

Rykmaar · September 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Rykmaar wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Rykmaar wrote: »

In two weeks, after 1T comes out, everyone is going to have the sets they wanted golded out and will be faced with nothing to do or work towards.

One Tamriel is supposed to be something that gives everyone a real reason to go to all of the zones in the game again after questing in them. But they're missing the opportunity with what's currently on the PTS. Once people farm the *** out of the few gear sets they may or may not care about in a few days, they'll be deserted again in a few weeks. Rewarding running dailies regularly or adding rare drops for cosmetics would actually keep a lot more players interested for FAR longer.

Yeah, that's one idea for sure.

I applaud them for trying to spur interest in zones. The issue with this is that there is nothing that you will be doing in those zones post release that doesn't come down to farming/grinding for gear sets you want. Once that is done, we're back at square one.

Lack of endgame progression.

They really need to take a page out of other MMOs with trials and organize them into steps. They need to encourage people to do vet. Next we need new trials that really require you use gear obtained in previous trials.

I 100% agree that Trials need to be on a more tiered system than they are now. There should be an obvious progression through the different trails, and I think the BoP sets from each should get progressively stronger. There's the problem with those sets being too strong in PvP, so just give them very strong PvE set bonuses.

Yep agreed.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2016

Don't worry the next phase in this money driven MMO will include at some point , great ingame rewards for questing but only available for subscribers . Non subscribers will get old base loot tables . That's what Swtor and other games have done to say they added more ingame achievements . I dislike being persimistic but everything has happened in same progression , including loot boxes as these other MMOs .

Rykmaar · September 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Don't worry the next phase in this money driven MMO will include at some point , great ingame rewards for questing but only available for subscribers . Non subscribers will get old base loot tables . That's what Swtor and other games have done to say they added more ingame achievements . I dislike being persimistic but everything has happened in same progression , including loot boxes as these other MMOs .

It's amazing, tbh. Every one of these new MMOs fails at the same thing that WoW succeeds at, giving players a reason to play and something to strive for. ESO is no different. You might hate WoW, you might hate Blizzard, but they create tiered PvE and PvP content that gives players of either focus something to do. ESO does none of that. (their cash shop has seasons though)

I've been with ESO since beta and it has, in recent months, started to feel like they've pivoted to cash grab mode. Maybe their concurrent players aren't as high as some believe, maybe the belt has been tightened at ZoS, but either way, this game is lacking now and I'm afraid it's going to be it's doom.

What a disgraceful thing for such a rich and vibrant IP.