Sorcerers can heal too!

Totalitarian · September 2016

RedFireDisco wrote: »

Major Mending is 30%.

That's the clincher right there.

Really, every healer will have access to Major Mending (which is actually 25%), but Templars have the easiest, and the longest lasting, way to get it, so a Templar should have 90%+ uptime on Major Mending in a stack-and-burn fight, which emcompasses nearly all normal mode trials, and most of vet mode dungeon boss fights, which can still be healed effectively by other classes.

In addition, the Templar Ritual, which grants said buff, also provides a heal, cleanse, and HOT (and damage depending on morph), which adds extra value.

A DK can settle with Igneous Shield for Major Mending, providing a rather small shield to their group too, but it's short lived compared to a Templar, which means several more recasts during a fight, which means less resources.

The two other classes need to use the Restoration Staff heavy attack for Major Mending

Also, through the Support skill line, all classes have access to a cleanse, but not nearly as cheap, or with as much utility as the Templar's Purify.

RedFireDisco · September 2016

Purge is so expensive.

FearlessOne_2014 · September 2016

Now I want to pull my Sorc out to heal dungeons. It'll be a change and a nice experience to play the class I've fell in love with day one of release. I abandoned my sorcs after TG after maining Sorcerer since release of 2014, mostly because I CBA to go through hard mode mode again like I did when sorcs was nearly useless before.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

Totalitarian wrote: »

The biggest advantage that a Templar has in terms of healing is not BOL (because that basically overheals everyone), rather it's very easy access to HOTs, major mending, and medium healing.

The HOT that Templars have comes from their Ritual of Retribution/Extended Ritual, which just helps with healing.

The bigger thing that it adds is Major Mending. Now, that doesn't help much with BOL, because even without that buff, it'll still heal your target to max, but Major Mending helps your other HOTs tick for more (IE Healing Springs and Regeneration)

Also, Templars have access to a great heal, Repentance, which heals for 4-6k per body purified, which is not the overheal that is BOL, in addition, Repentance is free. I won't touch on the stamina restore on it.

That's really the advantage that Templars have over other classes in terms of healing 4-man content. BOL is usually an expensive, too powerful for its own good, crutch that you generally don't need (other classes can use Healing Ward as a replacement).

In terms for 4-man content, so long as your stamina dps and tanks don't mind going without shards, the 4 classes can all handle healing perfectly well.

However, Templars are still the better healer due to the Restoring Light line, and they then become the better supports as you start examining group utility, because they can cheaply cleanse allies of harmful effects, and restore stamina to allies.

In the end, the biggest thing that the other 3 classes can't do is restore large amounts of stamina to team members; everything but shards and Repentance is either available to all classes, or has a replacement.

While I agree with most of the things you said, my repentance hits for 10-12k, depending on whether or not I have major mending up.

You talk about medium healing while not recognizing that everyone has access to the best medium heal in the game, mutagen. It heals for a good 20-30% more then extended ritual and has a burst heal if people get too low, I have seen that burst hit for 17k on my temp. And removes a negative effect.

Now stam, everyone has access to that too, 250 stam might not sounds like a lot and I agree it isn't but it is something. Especially with it giving it to up to 6 people at a time. Though it is difficult to get, if there is any one item that every healer ought to get, it is that staff.

Like I said I main a healer temp but I have healed with a sorc and have been healed as a dps and a tank by every class with no real issue.

Totalitarian · September 2016

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Totalitarian wrote: »

The biggest advantage that a Templar has in terms of healing is not BOL (because that basically overheals everyone), rather it's very easy access to HOTs, major mending, and medium healing.

The HOT that Templars have comes from their Ritual of Retribution/Extended Ritual, which just helps with healing.

The bigger thing that it adds is Major Mending. Now, that doesn't help much with BOL, because even without that buff, it'll still heal your target to max, but Major Mending helps your other HOTs tick for more (IE Healing Springs and Regeneration)

Also, Templars have access to a great heal, Repentance, which heals for 4-6k per body purified, which is not the overheal that is BOL, in addition, Repentance is free. I won't touch on the stamina restore on it.

That's really the advantage that Templars have over other classes in terms of healing 4-man content. BOL is usually an expensive, too powerful for its own good, crutch that you generally don't need (other classes can use Healing Ward as a replacement).

In terms for 4-man content, so long as your stamina dps and tanks don't mind going without shards, the 4 classes can all handle healing perfectly well.

However, Templars are still the better healer due to the Restoring Light line, and they then become the better supports as you start examining group utility, because they can cheaply cleanse allies of harmful effects, and restore stamina to allies.

In the end, the biggest thing that the other 3 classes can't do is restore large amounts of stamina to team members; everything but shards and Repentance is either available to all classes, or has a replacement.

While I agree with most of the things you said, my repentance hits for 10-12k, depending on whether or not I have major mending up.

You talk about medium healing while not recognizing that everyone has access to the best medium heal in the game, mutagen. It heals for a good 20-30% more then extended ritual and has a burst heal if people get too low, I have seen that burst hit for 17k on my temp. And removes a negative effect.

Now stam, everyone has access to that too, 250 stam might not sounds like a lot and I agree it isn't but it is something. Especially with it giving it to up to 6 people at a time. Though it is difficult to get, if there is any one item that every healer ought to get, it is that staff.

Like I said I main a healer temp but I have healed with a sorc and have been healed as a dps and a tank by every class with no real issue.

Okay, I probably gave a serious lowball on Repentance heals. I probably gave what the stamina return on it was

snakester320 · September 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

sorry but templars have better healing skills full stop how many of you so called greatest sorc healers heal runs with characters that dont have some sort of self heals?? not a big fan of sorcs healing and tanking cause the majority ive seen through PUGS has been less that impressive compared to a dedicated templar healer!! that said i have seen a few do great jobs but very VERY far and few between!!

every single sorc tank I have ever seen ever was a pet build, no taunt, and basically cheated to get into a group. Never seen one actually tank so much as a bone collossus without getting creamed.

This is what annoys me i like to get in as a dps do my job and get my reward 1 or 2 wipes on a boss etc yeah sure but ive seen wipes on trash even first 1/2 mobs wipe..ZOS made a big mistake with the classes ( cant wait for the abuse ill get over this ) making really only 4 classes gave it no variety dk tank templar heals and 2 dps classes !! there should have been 2 tank 2 healer and 4 dps classes giving ppl variety that way instead... i think the put a resto staff on a NB /sorc and call your self a healer is stupid !! This idea while ( dont get me wrong ) is fresh and a way to distance themselves from the common mmo format but also presented far more issues than expected they had to allow you to queue as any class which is abused all the time with NB and sorcs queueing as tanks/healers to get fast queues resulting in alot of failed groups more so than normal mmo format.. i play with my stamplar my fav class for the damn good self heal BUT i dont que as a healer because im not a healer nor should i have to heal becasue some jerk thinks he can heal with a sorc/nb with a staff and pet!!.. ive also had to resort to using heavy armour peices to have stay alive ( i dont like tank class in this game) other games tanks have better aoe aggro to pull and hold mobs while dps kills them... simple! then after that they put a 15min penalty timer does ZOS want ppl to get fustrated with the game and leave??? lmao

WillhelmBlack · September 2016

In a trial, my NB can pump out more HPS than any Templar. Don't let it get to you, find a guild and tell them you're a Sorc healer.

exeeter702 · September 2016

Let's not forget thst sometimes to push progression, a trial group would benedit a great deal to have a nb healer for the extra damage they would provide.

andreasranasen wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

RomansXXI wrote: »

I'm sick of being kicked from groups because I am a sorcerer healer. I have been able to out heal Templars any day and my build focuses on healing when needed and dps when not. I have completed many veteran dungeons and had not a single group member die on me. Please give us a chance before removing us cause we are not the healer designated class!

You've never out healed a competent templar..

I admit Breath of Life is stronger than Twilight Matriarch in terms of raw numbers, but you can barely tell in PvE when your healing as a Sorcerer is still strong enough to do your job as a healer.

What do you mean breath is stronger? It only heals one at full and the other at half that value. Twilight hits both at full value. Unless you mean because of major mending. Even then. Maybe you mean cause it is a pet and can die.

True the one to get the half heal is probably getting less than what the Twilight gives but I was indeed referring to the first one to be healed in terms of figures.

With a properly set up sorc healer, you ought to have compareable numbers, IE on my temp without major mending, I get around 22k crits with the main heal of breath with being an argonian and 10% into blessed. On my sorc, who is a DPS without any points into blessed and being an high elf, it crits for around 20k. Thanks to having around 42k mana. Seems to me it would be easy to have the sorc hit for more, IE more into blessed or having the necropotence set. Really though, anything about like 18k is more then enough, as most DPS have l around that in health.

Indeed. Some people are just biased toward Healers though.

I just don't understand why someone would create a sorc simply to heal... Makes no sense. A Templar does a better job AND you get an entire skill line dedicated for healing lol. As a sorc healer you're missing out the true POWER of a sorc. Not hating.. But I think it's a downgrade

(I'm a magicka sorc)

It is this mentality that pollutes most people's minds in this game.

Templars are not the default healers in this game. If you think thst having a skill line dedicated to healing is evidence of that, then you truly do not understand the way in which this games skill class design is constructed at the very foundation.

Why the hell are sorcs given a powerful burst heal wit the tool tip clearly stating it is intended for the healing role? There are skills across each and every class, that are designed for each and every role in this game. The universal skill lines available to everyone help augment that role, some classes rely less on said skill lines where some have to lean more toward them. It is intentionally made that way.

This is not a discussion tuning of the classes, if templars are pushing more raw hps (they are not) than that is a seperate issue that is no different than a nb vs a sorc in terms of trial dps.

The point here is zos will continue to adust each class to fulfill each role. Sorc recently recieving a powerful healer ability and a change to negate to heal a group was not some random pvp, support, abstract utility skill addition. It was simply added because sorc under the healer role was lacking a few tools to help them be on par with the other options.

No trial group worth their *** is stacking 2 templars.

snakester320 · September 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

In a trial, my NB can pump out more HPS than any Templar. Don't let it get to you, find a guild and tell them you're a Sorc healer.

dps must be *** then.. or hps on yourself!!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

snakester320 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

sorry but templars have better healing skills full stop how many of you so called greatest sorc healers heal runs with characters that dont have some sort of self heals?? not a big fan of sorcs healing and tanking cause the majority ive seen through PUGS has been less that impressive compared to a dedicated templar healer!! that said i have seen a few do great jobs but very VERY far and few between!!

every single sorc tank I have ever seen ever was a pet build, no taunt, and basically cheated to get into a group. Never seen one actually tank so much as a bone collossus without getting creamed.

This is what annoys me i like to get in as a dps do my job and get my reward 1 or 2 wipes on a boss etc yeah sure but ive seen wipes on trash even first 1/2 mobs wipe..ZOS made a big mistake with the classes ( cant wait for the abuse ill get over this ) making really only 4 classes gave it no variety dk tank templar heals and 2 dps classes !! there should have been 2 tank 2 healer and 4 dps classes giving ppl variety that way instead... i think the put a resto staff on a NB /sorc and call your self a healer is stupid !! This idea while ( dont get me wrong ) is fresh and a way to distance themselves from the common mmo format but also presented far more issues than expected they had to allow you to queue as any class which is abused all the time with NB and sorcs queueing as tanks/healers to get fast queues resulting in alot of failed groups more so than normal mmo format.. i play with my stamplar my fav class for the damn good self heal BUT i dont que as a healer because im not a healer nor should i have to heal becasue some jerk thinks he can heal with a sorc/nb with a staff and pet!!.. ive also had to resort to using heavy armour peices to have stay alive ( i dont like tank class in this game) other games tanks have better aoe aggro to pull and hold mobs while dps kills them... simple! then after that they put a 15min penalty timer does ZOS want ppl to get fustrated with the game and leave??? lmao

What self heal on a stamplar? Vigor? That is available to everyone. Rally? That is also available to everyone. All heals that you have available to you as a Templar are magic and all worth nothing on a stam build.

Stamplars are the perfect example of play how you want. You say zos made a big mistake. then go on to say you like playing stamina based Templar dps but you want templars to be the only healers? You make no sense.

Balticthunder · September 2016

RomansXXI wrote: »

I have completed many veteran dungeons and had not a single group member die on me.

Yeah, lol.

Asardes · September 2016

From my experience Templar healer is indeed needed if the DDs in a 4 man group are both stamina, especially if they are using a lot of steel tornado on trash - most stamina DDs run 2W/Bow combo. It's an expensive skill and sustain is a problem, especially because stamina is also used to dodge, break CC and block & interrupt (yes, everyone needs to do that, not just the tank). There is a balance between sustain and max damage - if you are increasing one you are decreasing the other. With support (repentance and shards from Templar) 1K regeneration or even slightly less is sufficient for most fights. Without Templar healer, you need to have about 1.5K regeneration to sustain.

Yesterday I ran gold - Darkshade Caverns - and silver - Vollenfell - with a sorcerer healer. The former only needs tank for the first two bosses (and the skippable alits) because the netch and the engine guardian don't aggro. So I was running, my offensive tanking setup, with mostly medium armor (my DD gear), 1H+S on 1st bar with tanking abilities and 2H on back bar with DD abilities and switched the 2H/Bow for the last part. I have around 1.1K stamina regen, but the extra strain from tanking and DD-ing meant that I was at ~10% stamina throughout, basically gasping. I also died a few times, because I couldn't dodge and block as efficiently. I was using blue CP150 health & stamina food. I had ran this content before in an identical setup with Templar healers and had no troubles. It would have been a different story even with the sorcerer healer had I ran blue health and stamina regen because I can reach the 1.5K target with that, although my DPS is lower because of lower max stamina.

In my tanking armor I have 1.6K stamina regeneration (2.6K with regeneration food and green dragon blood) and recoup trough heavy armor passives and heavy attacks, and I don't spend it DPS-ing. I block only about 30% of the time, so stamina has plenty of time to regenerate. I can stay at 100% even without shards. I ran just normal trials, but the amount of shards I got, combined with the passive regeneration from my gear meant that I could dump stamina trough vigor and heal the DDs around me. About 2/3 trough my 2nd trial I saw Trials Healer pop on screen. If both DDs are magicka, an off-healer, even a non Templar, can get the job done very well. I actually prefer magicka NB running funnel health, sap essence, and maybe refreshing path because those also do a lot of damage to enemies, being part of the normal rotation, and, being class abilities, don't even require a restoration staff. So you can basically have 3 fully optimized DDs blasting trough the content. High DPS helps shorten the fights, which means quicker, safer runs.

So can a sorcerer heal? The correct answer is: depends on group makeup. Even if it works it can result to sub-optimal DPS because the sustain trade-of. In stamina heavy groups it will be weaker than a templar, in magicka ones it's hard to beat NB.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

Asardes wrote: »

From my experience Templar healer is indeed needed if the DDs in a 4 man group are both stamina, especially if they are using a lot of steel tornado on trash - most stamina DDs run 2W/Bow combo. It's an expensive skill and sustain is a problem, especially because stamina is also used to dodge, break CC and block & interrupt (yes, everyone needs to do that, not just the tank). There is a balance between sustain and max damage - if you are increasing one you are decreasing the other. With support (repentance and shards from Templar) 1K regeneration or even slightly less is sufficient for most fights. Without Templar healer, you need to have about 1.5K regeneration to sustain.

Yesterday I ran gold - Darkshade Caverns - and silver - Vollenfell - with a sorcerer healer. The former only needs tank for the first two bosses (and the skippable alits) because the netch and the engine guardian don't aggro. So I was running, my offensive tanking setup, with mostly medium armor (my DD gear), 1H+S on 1st bar with tanking abilities and 2H on back bar with DD abilities and switched the 2H/Bow for the last part. I have around 1.1K stamina regen, but the extra strain from tanking and DD-ing meant that I was at ~10% stamina throughout, basically gasping. I also died a few times, because I couldn't dodge and block as efficiently. I was using blue CP150 health & stamina food. I had ran this content before in an identical setup with Templar healers and had no troubles. It would have been a different story even with the sorcerer healer had I ran blue health and stamina regen because I can reach the 1.5K target with that, although my DPS is lower because of lower max stamina.

In my tanking armor I have 1.6K stamina regeneration (2.6K with regeneration food and green dragon blood) and recoup trough heavy armor passives and heavy attacks, and I don't spend it DPS-ing. I block only about 30% of the time, so stamina has plenty of time to regenerate. I can stay at 100% even without shards. I ran just normal trials, but the amount of shards I got, combined with the passive regeneration from my gear meant that I could dump stamina trough vigor and heal the DDs around me. About 2/3 trough my 2nd trial I saw Trials Healer pop on screen. If both DDs are magicka, an off-healer, even a non Templar, can get the job done very well. I actually prefer magicka NB running funnel health, sap essence, and maybe refreshing path because those also do a lot of damage to enemies, being part of the normal rotation, and, being class abilities, don't even require a restoration staff. So you can basically have 3 fully optimized DDs blasting trough the content. High DPS helps shorten the fights, which means quicker, safer runs.

So can a sorcerer heal? The correct answer is: depends on group makeup. Even if it works it can result to sub-optimal DPS because the sustain trade-of. In stamina heavy groups it will be weaker than a templar, in magicka ones it's hard to beat NB.

If you are a stam dk tank and can't get by with less then 1k regen, you are doing something wrong. I run with less then 700 stam regen and 30k stam. I can do igneous 4 times before I am out of magic and that means I get around 6k stam back from that. With only 15% in block cost reduction from CP, then 17.5% is BCR from my armor and only 2 cost reduction enchants on my jewels. With the S/B passives, My block cost then around 600 every half second. I do run 1.3k mana regen, for more igneous and chains and talons. With an ultimate or two every boss, I hardly ever run out of stam. Stam regen is simply a non-issue and a garbage stat on a tank. So I am simply self sustaining. Your build would not be able to self sustain through the last boss in vDSA in a burn strat.

You should NEVER use green dragons blood on a tank, it is bad and you ought to feel bad for using it. Coagulated blood is much better but even that is unessential. Vigor is a better heal and draconic armor will give you the passives that are important to have going, IE the extra 12% healing.

It sounds like you want a tank/dps hybrid that can't do either to the max potential.

You say it depends on the group comp? I say it depends if the group is good at the role that they have chosen.

And on the engine guardian fight, you don't need to dps. It is the tanks job to keep the adds off of the dps and healer. Like in every other fight.

Asardes · September 2016

You're mixing things. I said I ran out of stamina in a specific scenario, which is tanking and DPS-ing at the same time. Which means that first I can't use all my magicka for ingenous, because I have to replenish my spiked armor and also cast talons from the same 10K pool, and on the other that I have to block and then attack, which drains stamina rather quickly.

I have no problems with sustain if I run as a full tank - I get all the aggro, I have block cost mitigation from jewelry, as well as the passives from heavy armor, and massive regeneration from set bonuses - or as full DD - where I have to block far less because the tank has the aggro. True, I'm more min-maxxed as a tank, and that's just due to the racial passives (Nord), since I'm full stamina build, and I have 147 CPs in Ritual. In DD gear, fully buffed (rally+ingenous), I have 4K weapon damage on (2H bar), 38.5K stamina and 1.1K stamina regeneration. Health is around 18.5K. I've run all veteran dungeons, except the new ones, both as full tand tank and as full DD, for speed runs. I've ran also all of these full length as hybrid with even better result (fastest run in Darkshade was 13 minutes, with all bosses killed), except VICP, where I changed to full tank at the abomination boss. But as I said, this hybrid build is a bit more demanding on the support side, namely the shard & repentance. But on the other side 2H has better sustain than 2W, because skills are a bit cheaper, and there is also a passive that increases your regeneration after you kill an enemy. So I guess 2W needs a little bit more regeneration/support than 2H. I haven't specced it yet, but I will do it in a few months, after I recuperate the SP from research.

Indeed, I rarely use green dragon blood, just on a few boss fights, both as as an emergency burst heal, for lack of a better skill, and for the added regeneration. I mostly use vigor as heal, if the health drops a bit and the healer doesn't replenish it immediately, but that uses stamina. If I'm low health and out of stamina (ex. healer is down or resing someone else) and I had to just roll around from AoE I might not have enough stamina to heal at that moment. I might also be in potion cool down which excludes that option as well. I like to have as many options as possible. Maybe I'm overly cautious because I had the no death achievement slip from my hands a couple of times in some dungeons before I eventually got it.

Stamina regeneration may be a "junk stat" on a tank that has great support and doesn't do anything else, but I go mostly whith PuGs where I have to compensate for the lack of DPS. I'm also pretty bored of tanking - been doing that for 8 months each day - and want to switch roles from time to time. And I want to do that just by pushing a button (I have alpha gear add on). I've not even tried to wear my tank armor in Cyrodiil. There I go with bow and maul. I would be pretty much useless as a tank in PvP since I mostly run solo or in small groups.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

Okay, I see a big difference, I have 15k magic. Tanks need all 3 pools, so why would you not run tristat food?

You say massive regeneration but the only stat that you need regen on is magic. Sure there are health regen tanks but they sacrifice a lot for that.

My armor is all about producing ultimate, the meta currently, IE bloodspawn, tavas and dragonguard( dragon is only on my back bar, as I have a defending master sword on my taunt bar). So I have ultimate all the time and thanks to being dk, I get more resources back while making everyone near me better at there role, thanks to warhorn.

I use vigor a lot, for the reasons you gave and because it ticks crits for almost 4k for 5 secs on my and generates ultimate from healing other people. That 4k is with only 29 CP into blessed and around the same into precise strikes. I ought to move more into them.

I also have all speed runs and no deaths. It only takes a couple of good dps and a good healer to do that. Like I said, the group has to be good at the role they have chosen. No half measures.

You say dodge roll around aoe, the only time you need to do that is one hits attacks, otherwise igneous shields is more then enough. Shields then move.

A better skill to use then green dragons blood is igneous weapons. I realize that most dps use a self buff of some sort but a lot of the time, healers do not. The skill gives you stam back and a guarantee of major sorcery and major brutality.

Though I would like to point out, you being successful with a completely different build then me is part of the greatness of the game. Play the way that you find most successful.

Averya_Teira · September 2016

They just need to remove the stamina regen on shards.

Problem fixed for everyone and bad stamina users can get the own ressource...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

They just need to remove the stamina regen on shards.

Problem fixed for everyone and bad stamina users can get the own ressource...

But then repentance would be even more important. More important then it is already.

Averya_Teira · September 2016

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

They just need to remove the stamina regen on shards.

Problem fixed for everyone and bad stamina users can get the own ressource...

But then repentance would be even more important. More important then it is already.

Well remove it too ? Or make it really really really less effective. Give it a minute or two cooldown, I don't know. Make it an ultimate, so no one ever uses it again lol...

ragespell · September 2016

andreasranasen wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would create a sorc healer. There's Templars for that job.

It's like taking a Porche and turning it into a Prius...

// Magicka Sorc

wrong....with matriarch we can very well take templar role as healer.

Problem are subpar wannabe dps tank that are stamina starving...in that case only a templar in party is a must

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

They just need to remove the stamina regen on shards.

Problem fixed for everyone and bad stamina users can get the own ressource...

But then repentance would be even more important. More important then it is already.

Well remove it too ? Or make it really really really less effective. Give it a minute or two cooldown, I don't know. Make it an ultimate, so no one ever uses it again lol...

How about making a skill outside of templars that does something similar. Like a synergy on a blood alter morph that gives stam back.

Asardes · September 2016

I run 5 Willow's Path - I crafted it before TG came out so there was no Tava's Favor around then and now I don't see the point of spending my materials making something that's just marginally better - 2 Bloodspawn, 2 Alessia's Bulwark, all pieces with tri-glyphs, 4 divines, 4 infused, defending trait and crushing enchantment on weapon, 3 robust endurance jewelry with cost mitigation.

Unbuffed (buffed with CP150 blue health & stamina food) stats are 13.5K Magicka | 19.8 (26.5) K Health | 27.4 (32.5) K stamina. Ideally I should run Atronach mundus - I have about 1.1K magicka regen and 1.2 stamina regen with it - but usually keep the Serpent because I don't like running back and forth to Shadowfen to change it each time I go PvP or want to run as DD; I still have about 800 magicka regeneration with that.

My DD gear is the classical 5 Hundin's Rage and 3 Night Mother's gaze with stamina enchants, 3 robust agility with weapon damage enchants, sharpened on both weapons and also weapon damage enchant.

Unbuffed (buffed with CP150 blue health & stamina food) stats are 10K Magicka | 12.3K (18.5K) Health | 32.5 (38.5) K Stamina, 3.3K (4K) weapon damage (rally+ingenous), 1.1K stamina regeneration, with Serpent mundus. Once I forgot the Atronach and was absolutely horrible

What I love about this build is that I can push the button and change it, even mid dungeon.

Tan9oSuccka · September 2016

Sorcerers can heal. I think as a utility/support in most cases, or normal runs.

As many have stated before, Templars do it best from "their house". Shards and Repentance are quite useful to a group.

I find I have to use more potions to accommodate most hybrid Sorcerer Healer builds.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

Asardes wrote: »

I run 5 Willow's Path - I crafted it before TG came out so there was no Tava's Favor around then and now I don't see the point of spending my materials making something that's just marginally better - 2 Bloodspawn, 2 Alessia's Bulwark, all pieces with tri-glyphs, 4 divines, 4 infused, defending trait and crushing enchantment on weapon, 3 robust endurance jewelry with cost mitigation.

What I love about this build is that I can push the button and change it, even mid dungeon.

just two things, one, tavas is NOT "marginally better", it is better then willows path in every way, simply because of the ulti gen, more warhorns = faster completes, better tanking from the more resources you get back from it. you can not really argue with that, in my setup i can almost hit a warhorn before the last one ends, like only 10 secs of down time, think about it, i can get a warhorn before my potion timer ends, if i even need to use pots. that is just plain better.

second, i don't do that, i have alts if want to DPS, both magic(manasorc) and stam(stamblade-i pvp on this one). and i have a healer. i do one role on each and set them up to min/max that one role. i understand that if you don't have the time to do that, your way is good and like i said before, you being successful with a completely different build than me is part of the greatness of the game. Play the way that you find most successful.

xblackroxe wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

They just need to remove the stamina regen on shards.

Problem fixed for everyone and bad stamina users can get the own ressource...

But then repentance would be even more important. More important then it is already.

Well remove it too ? Or make it really really really less effective. Give it a minute or two cooldown, I don't know. Make it an ultimate, so no one ever uses it again lol...

How about making a skill outside of templars that does something similar. Like a synergy on a blood alter morph that gives stam back.

Or maybe just accept the fact that templars are the best healers and QQ about it on forums.

oh i accept that templar are the best but that doesn't make the other classes worthless. if someone finds that they enjoy healing on a sorc or NB or DK, more power to them, as long as they take it seriously and play to the strengths of their classes, everything is great.

BalticBlues · September 2016

I heal with a Templar for more than 2 years now.
I also heal with a Sorc for 6 months now.
Being able to pick a Templer or Sorc healer,
I always prefer the Sorc.

Even though the Templar can give more resources,
only new players need resources, not max CP players.
In endgame situations, damage is more important.
Regarding damage, a Sorc is better.

Templar gameplay also is extremely slow and static.
Sorc gameplay is much faster and more flexible.
Speed and flexibility are also keys for endgame situations.

Therefore, I would say it this way:
The Templar is a better healer for standard dungeons and newbies.
The Sorc is a better healer for endgame territory with max CP players.

xblackroxe · September 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

I heal with a Templar for more than 2 years now.
I also heal with a Sorc for 6 months now.
Being able to pick a Templer or Sorc healer,
I always prefer the Sorc.

Even though the Templar can give more resources,
only new players need resources, not max CP players.
In endgame situations, damage is more important.
Regarding damage, a Sorc is much better.

Templar gameplay also is extremely slow and static.
Sorc gameplay is much faster and more flexible.
Speed and flexibility are also keys for endgame situations.

Therefore, I would say it this way:
The Templar is a better healer for regular dungeons and newbies.
The Sorc is a better healer for endgame territory with max CP players.

May you elaborate what endgame territory for you means?

BalticBlues · September 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

May you elaborate what endgame territory for you means?

Probably what it means for you, like Trials and the 4 vet dungeons since IC. vWGT is a classic where a Templar sucks compared to a Sorc: Having to close the portals at the Planar Inhibitor level can be a pain with a slow Templar and its limited damage, but it is easy with a fast and more deadly Sorc. Endgame means that players need to handle complex mechanics and DPS tests and this is more difficult for slow Templars than for fast Sorcs. Another example is the new vCoS where the Spider silk is slowing down players. With a Templar, this level can be a pain, with a Sorc there is not much to worry about. Where mechanics and speed are key, which is the case for almost all endgame gameplay since IC, in my opinion a fast and flexible Sorc is better to handle than a slow and inflexible Templar.

ZOS_JohanaB · September 2016

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Asardes · September 2016

Well, in order to proc Tava's Favor you have to run evasion, meaning you have a 20% chance of not being hit, on each hit. If you evade you gain 9 ultimate over 6 seconds (bonus identical to minor heroism). Which is fine, because some things (ex. bosses in the new dungeons, Manticora) hit really hard, and take a big chunk of your health even while you are blocking. The problem is that when you combine a set that procs on avoiding hits with one that procs on being hit, like Bloodspawn or Scourge Harvester, you actually reduce the latter's overall effectiveness, because you are getting hit on average 20% less than you would without the evasion needed to proc Tava's. Bloodspawn gives you 15 ultimate right away, with a 6 second resistance boost and another 6 seconds cooldown - which is not that important, since I'm right at the cap anyway if healer is using combat prayer and gives me minor ward & protection. So in the end you trade 20% of a 6% chance of gaining 15 ultimate on each hit for a 20% of gaining 9 ultimate on each hit. The actual ultimate gain may depend on scenario.

In practice, with my current setup, I can blow the horn every 45-50s , but gain ultimate from other sources as well, which are more reliable: heavy attacks, light attacks, heroic slash, mountain's blessing passive (ingenous weapons, ingenous shields). In practice I blow the horn at longer intervals, because most boss fights have phases, and using other ults, like magma shell, are more opportune in certain fights where the group takes huge damage from AoEs. I've seen videos and other sources claiming similar utlimate refill times for Tava's Favor + Bloodspawn combination. That's why I say it's "marginally better". If I were to craft Tava's Favor I would probably combine it with something else, in order to bring more utility to the group. Ex. Ebon Armory (more health), Roar of Alkosh (resistance debuff), Akaviri Dragonguard (ultimate cost reduction).

Balticthunder · September 2016

Hmm, by the way, is someone still leveling full DD or tank for PVE lately - judging by healer posts on these boards everyone and his wife is healer lol

Maybe thats why people struggle in dungeones, when they cant beat bosses due to low damage output. Or when they are waiting for hours in queue, because no real DD around.

Rage_Killin · September 2016

Sorcs can heal. Templars do it better