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It's time to update Vigor
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
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Good luck doing it with a StamNB then, they are the only ones without any other proper heals.0 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Almost every class has a magica class skill that heals, heals and does damage, heals and cleanses, or a non class specific move that shields and heals and scales based on damage.
This is without mentioning the almost unbridled utility almost every magica class brings to the game.
And defining the imbalance of the game against one skill is the acme of foolishness. Magica classes have access to quite a few things stamina classes do not.
Vigor does not mitigate damage even in Cyrodil from multiple sources; vigor plus major mending plus major vitality plus rally with heavy armor defense mitigation and maybe a very close to being broken monster set can add another 30% healing.
Failing to mention the above is enough for some including me to believe your argument is not about balance at all, more something your using as a buzzword.2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vigor has absolutely zero to do with Stamina being powerful in PvP right now..
I completely disagree. The ability to get from near execute range to full HP by casting vigor and rolling twice is the primary reason why stamina builds are so powerful. Right now, they can easily negate any damage that does not kill them in 2 seconds, which allows them to stay continually on the offensive.
Without vigor, any pure damage focused stam build would be forced to retreat if he failed to kill his target fast. If that wouldn't make him less powerful then i don't know what would.
If someone is getting from execute range to full HP by casting Vigor and rolling twice, You're not using a Healing Debuff.
Right. Next time i am fighting a stamina NB, i'm just gonna keep dropping dragonknight standards on him everytime he cast vigor.
I'd hope you use the one available to you in the 1hd shield line that lasts for 10 seconds, Or maybe use Duroks Bane, or Maybe Cyrodiils Crest, or Maybe Lethal Arrow, Or Maybe Fasalla.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
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NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Vigor has absolutely zero to do with Stamina being powerful in PvP right now..
I completely disagree. The ability to get from near execute range to full HP by casting vigor and rolling twice is the primary reason why stamina builds are so powerful. Right now, they can easily negate any damage that does not kill them in 2 seconds, which allows them to stay continually on the offensive.
Without vigor, any pure damage focused stam build would be forced to retreat if he failed to kill his target fast. If that wouldn't make him less powerful then i don't know what would.
If someone is getting from execute range to full HP by casting Vigor and rolling twice, You're not using a Healing Debuff.
Right. Next time i am fighting a stamina NB, i'm just gonna keep dropping dragonknight standards on him everytime he cast vigor.
I'd hope you use the one available to you in the 1hd shield line that lasts for 10 seconds, Or maybe use Duroks Bane, or Maybe Cyrodiils Crest, or Maybe Lethal Arrow, Or Maybe Fasalla.
So every magicka class must run S&B on one bar with a stamina based debuff and resto on the back bar to heal? Or run stamina/tank sets like Cyrodiil's Crest, Durok's and Fasallas? And running bow on a mag DK will work out really well.
Your "solutions" are all require magicka players to be tanky with high stamina pools, while Vigor is available to any stam build of any kind.2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vigor has absolutely zero to do with Stamina being powerful in PvP right now..
I completely disagree. The ability to get from near execute range to full HP by casting vigor and rolling twice is the primary reason why stamina builds are so powerful. Right now, they can easily negate any damage that does not kill them in 2 seconds, which allows them to stay continually on the offensive.
Without vigor, any pure damage focused stam build would be forced to retreat if he failed to kill his target fast. If that wouldn't make him less powerful then i don't know what would.
If someone is getting from execute range to full HP by casting Vigor and rolling twice, You're not using a Healing Debuff.
Right. Next time i am fighting a stamina NB, i'm just gonna keep dropping dragonknight standards on him everytime he cast vigor.
I'd hope you use the one available to you in the 1hd shield line that lasts for 10 seconds, Or maybe use Duroks Bane, or Maybe Cyrodiils Crest, or Maybe Lethal Arrow, Or Maybe Fasalla.
So every magicka class must run S&B on one bar with a stamina based debuff and resto on the back bar to heal? Or run stamina/tank sets like Cyrodiil's Crest, Durok's and Fasallas? And running bow on a mag DK will work out really well.
Your "solutions" are all require magicka players to be tanky with high stamina pools, while Vigor is available to any stam build of any kind.
Let's see; Templar and nightblade both have skill based healing debuffs; so that's half of the classes right there
Magicka dks generally build tanky so duroks or fasalla is a pretty good setup for them; or they can run 1hd shield like damn near everyone of them runs in pvp. If you want to use dw I recommend fasalla or duroks.
Sorcs are really the only class that has sort of an excuse about this... They can pick up a minor defile from poisons though.
in otherwords; there is multiple ways to pick up healing debuffs; you whining about not wanting to use them is hilariously stupid... Since personally I never ran without access to a healing debuffs and would run bow or 1hd shield if it meant stopping people from healing... Because that's how pvp works in this game; you run things that counter your opponents...
Edited by Xsorus on August 30, 2016 5:25AMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magicka dks generally build tanky so duroks or fasalla is a pretty good setup for them
If a mDK runs durok or fasalla, he will butcher whatever little damage he had left. At that point, it does not matter that the stam build is debuffed, as he will be able to outheal that mDK's damage despite of the debuff.
And really, fasalla is completely useless for this purpose, since the debuff only lasts 2 seconds after enemy damages you, and if he did, he is on a 1 sec ability CD and can't use a heal anyway - half of the debuff's duration is wasted. (and the 2nd second probably spent roll dodging or cloaking). Only thing fasalla is good for is zerg busting.Edited by Sharee on August 30, 2016 6:32AM1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magicka dks generally build tanky so duroks or fasalla is a pretty good setup for them
If a mDK runs durok or fasalla, he will butcher whatever little damage he had left. At that point, it does not matter that the stam build is debuffed, as he will be able to outheal that mDK's damage despite of the debuff.
And really, fasalla is completely useless for this purpose, since the debuff only lasts 2 seconds after enemy damages you, and if he did, he is on a 1 sec ability CD and can't use a heal anyway - half of the debuff's duration is wasted. (and the 2nd second probably spent roll dodging or cloaking). Only thing fasalla is good for is zerg busting.
Most of the damage he's going to get is going to be from his Jewelry Enchants. Now you can try running something like Julio and Sun set for some huge damage but you run into the very problem you're having...You can't kill squat that has a heal...Unless you decide to actually use the Reverb Bash. Its a route you can take if you choose to but you have two viable options there to deal with it.
As for Fasalla, Fasalla isn't good for Burst Heals in comparison something like Duroks or Reverb bash if the player knows to wait out the Heal. However Fasalla is extremely good for things like Vigor that you're complaining about because its a hot and its used to keep you up while you're fighting. Which means while they're fighting you make their maintenance healing less effective and they end up on the defensive more often. Personally I run Fasalla + 1hd Shield because players who can't heal through your damage are screwed.Edited by Xsorus on August 30, 2016 7:59AMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless you decide to actually use the Reverb Bash. Its a route you can take if you choose to but you have two viable options there to deal with it.
If you believe that using a costly stamina attack as a magicka DK (against an enemy running shuffle and rolling all the time) is a viable option, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭Omg your telling mag DKs what to do with a hybrid type style of play and it DOES NOT work in PVP anymore. ffs
Stop saying mDK is basically fine and all your wisdom tells us the whole world has been doing it wrong and your the only one playing them right. I bet you don't even play a mDK. There are those of us who don't want to play a tank mDK. ffs
Now back to the topic at hand.
Leave resolving vigor alone and make the other morph a mag one.
I swear dude if you come back with anything about mDK......just stop talking about them as if you are an expert cuz your not. So stop.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[
Magicka dks generally build tanky so duroks or fasalla is a pretty good setup for them; or they can run 1hd shield like damn near everyone of them runs in pvp. If you want to use dw I recommend fasalla or duroks.
Great, your mDK can put on a heal debuff. Go ahead and heal debuff me, I'll go AFK and get a sandwich, when I come back your DK might have me down to 50% health.
I spam dark flare every night in Cyrodiil. High weapon damage + vigor/rally is enough for players who know what they are doing to still heal through lots of incoming damage. To say nothing that vigor users themselves have access to heal debuffs so it's not like that's a weakness that is supposed to balance it Vs. mutagen.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭What's imbalanced about having the best DPS and combat heal in the game on the same character?0 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭The whole idea of basing healing off of weapon or spell damage is flawed to begin with.4 -
Rage_Killin✭✭✭Ok sure, nerf rally, also please nerf BOL, healing ward, rally, and every other healing in the game. Vigor is fine. Healing is broken. You can get more than 130% healing in this game which in my opinion is just dumb.1 -
potirondb16_ESO✭✭✭Vigor is a prominent source of imbalance in this game. It's SUPER strong - it can easily out-heal incoming DPS from multiple characters on its own. Magicka-centric characters have nothing to compete with this and is a major reason magicka is underperforming and underrepresented in Cyrodiil.
ZOS, I hope you will consider this skill for the upcoming One Tamriel DLC - a decent option is to scale Vigor with health and cap it at the value of your lowest max resource pool to limit it's power for high weapon damage builds while also making it useful for magicka-centric characters.
I would love to have this healing utility available to my magicka toons, especially my magsorc, which feels incredibly gimped in self healing potential relative to other classes. I don't even care if it costs stamina - the cost is already very reasonable. Also, it would open up the playstyle for magicka by allowing less shield spamming.
TL;DR - reduce the overall effectiveness of Vigor and make it useful to magicka-centric players.
@Wrobel I'm holding on to hope that you guys plan to do something about the balance situation in One Tamriel.
Stamina have Vigor and Rally (vigor and rally can perform equally well as most magika heal and offer more HoT)
Magika have Resto and Shield (which are not offering as strong HoT but allow the magika users a critless environnement)
So overall both are performing as well IMO, magika user also have more dedicated class heal (Nightblade - Soul Havest and Swallow Soul/ Templar - Breath of life / Dragonknight - Ember Claw, Whip / Sorcerer - Increase Shielding capacity), then most Stamina build even if some have acces to major mending as well.
So overall it rely on the player capacity to adapt to that given condition.
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭The whole idea of basing healing off of weapon or spell damage is flawed to begin with.
Nevermind just healing, resource scaling in general since the removal of softcaps has been a disaster.Edited by Cathexis on August 30, 2016 9:34PMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
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Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless you decide to actually use the Reverb Bash. Its a route you can take if you choose to but you have two viable options there to deal with it.
If you believe that using a costly stamina attack as a magicka DK (against an enemy running shuffle and rolling all the time) is a viable option, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Its a bloody 10 second Healing Debuff, yes I think you should use ithttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »[
Magicka dks generally build tanky so duroks or fasalla is a pretty good setup for them; or they can run 1hd shield like damn near everyone of them runs in pvp. If you want to use dw I recommend fasalla or duroks.
Great, your mDK can put on a heal debuff. Go ahead and heal debuff me, I'll go AFK and get a sandwich, when I come back your DK might have me down to 50% health.
I spam dark flare every night in Cyrodiil. High weapon damage + vigor/rally is enough for players who know what they are doing to still heal through lots of incoming damage. To say nothing that vigor users themselves have access to heal debuffs so it's not like that's a weakness that is supposed to balance it Vs. mutagen.
Are you really trying to argue with me on this? At best you're going to heal for 4500 with Vigor, That's 2250 Heal over time with a heal debuff on ya....I'll give ya say 1250 on rally Extra....and i'm being generous there.... that's 3500 Heal you have to deal with....Are you telling me you can't outdamage that?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
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Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »[
Magicka dks generally build tanky so duroks or fasalla is a pretty good setup for them; or they can run 1hd shield like damn near everyone of them runs in pvp. If you want to use dw I recommend fasalla or duroks.
Great, your mDK can put on a heal debuff. Go ahead and heal debuff me, I'll go AFK and get a sandwich, when I come back your DK might have me down to 50% health.
I spam dark flare every night in Cyrodiil. High weapon damage + vigor/rally is enough for players who know what they are doing to still heal through lots of incoming damage. To say nothing that vigor users themselves have access to heal debuffs so it's not like that's a weakness that is supposed to balance it Vs. mutagen.
Are you really trying to argue with me on this? At best you're going to heal for 4500 with Vigor, That's 2250 Heal over time with a heal debuff on ya....I'll give ya say 1250 on rally Extra....and i'm being generous there.... that's 3500 Heal you have to deal with....Are you telling me you can't outdamage that?
Wow, you are ssooooooo wrong. Vigor heals for much more than that. You can also use it inside an enemy negate bubble...2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless you decide to actually use the Reverb Bash. Its a route you can take if you choose to but you have two viable options there to deal with it.
If you believe that using a costly stamina attack as a magicka DK (against an enemy running shuffle and rolling all the time) is a viable option, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Its a bloody 10 second Healing Debuff, yes I think you should use it
It does not matter how long the debuff is, a magicka spec simply cannot afford using an expensive stamina attack that will on average miss 2 times out of 3 tries due to the target running shuffle and/or roll dodging.1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless you decide to actually use the Reverb Bash. Its a route you can take if you choose to but you have two viable options there to deal with it.
If you believe that using a costly stamina attack as a magicka DK (against an enemy running shuffle and rolling all the time) is a viable option, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Its a bloody 10 second Healing Debuff, yes I think you should use it
It does not matter how long the debuff is, a magicka spec simply cannot afford using an expensive stamina attack that will on average miss 2 times out of 3 tries due to the target running shuffle and/or roll dodging.
I assume you use CC break?
Use it after CC break on the target.
If you've build your character with the right CP you'll be fine; if not Pick up one of the sets I suggested..Or continue to complain that your Heavily Dot based DPS is having trouble killing Stam Users....You either build to counter what you're having trouble with or you can hope they just absolutely gut vigor.Joy_Division wrote: »[
Magicka dks generally build tanky so duroks or fasalla is a pretty good setup for them; or they can run 1hd shield like damn near everyone of them runs in pvp. If you want to use dw I recommend fasalla or duroks.
Great, your mDK can put on a heal debuff. Go ahead and heal debuff me, I'll go AFK and get a sandwich, when I come back your DK might have me down to 50% health.
I spam dark flare every night in Cyrodiil. High weapon damage + vigor/rally is enough for players who know what they are doing to still heal through lots of incoming damage. To say nothing that vigor users themselves have access to heal debuffs so it's not like that's a weakness that is supposed to balance it Vs. mutagen.
Are you really trying to argue with me on this? At best you're going to heal for 4500 with Vigor, That's 2250 Heal over time with a heal debuff on ya....I'll give ya say 1250 on rally Extra....and i'm being generous there.... that's 3500 Heal you have to deal with....Are you telling me you can't outdamage that?
Wow, you are ssooooooo wrong. Vigor heals for much more than that. You can also use it inside an enemy negate bubble...
I've yet to see Vigor Heal for more then 4500; And I generally run a Blackrose/Fury build so my Weapon Damage gets insane at certain points..I also don't know why you brought up Negate.....Did I Mention Negate?https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I assume you use CC break?
Use it after CC break on the target.
After i use CC break to get out of fear, i have other things to worry about than debuffing enemy healing, because i just ate an unblocked incap strike+SA+light attack during the fear before it was possible to CC break it.
If i am sitting at execute range HP or very close to it, with dots out of the wazoo ticking on me (2k+ heavy weapon bleed, 2k+ poison injection, probably 1k+ rearming trap...), i need to worry about getting my HP back, not gamble the next move on an offensive attack that will most likely be evaded anyway.You either build to counter what you're having trouble with or you can hope they just absolutely gut vigor.
There is no counter. Not with the way this game heavily favors stamina builds over magicka. Not while a stam build has heals so strong that you need a healing debuff to even have a chance of scratching them, while also having damage output that has you hang on for dear life for the majority of the (very short) encounter. And that's when you are wearing heavy - if you are wearing light, there is no fight to begin with.
That's just wrong.
You want to have extreme damage output? Fine.
You want to have extemely effective healing? Fine.
You want to have extremely effective damage avoidance/mitigation? Fine.
But all three at once? Broken.
And when it comes to removing one of the three to restore some semblance of balance, removing the healing makes the most sense. Stamina builds should be dangerous damage dealers. They should be slippery. But they definitely shouldn't be able to heal any damage to themselves as fast as they do now.Edited by Sharee on August 31, 2016 7:46AM4 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I assume you use CC break?
Use it after CC break on the target.
After i use CC break to get out of fear, i have other things to worry about than debuffing enemy healing, because i just ate an unblocked incap strike+SA+light attack during the fear before it was possible to CC break it.
If i am sitting at execute range HP or very close to it, with dots out of the wazoo ticking on me (2k+ heavy weapon bleed, 2k+ poison injection, probably 1k+ rearming trap...), i need to worry about getting my HP back, not gamble the next move on an offensive attack that will most likely be evaded anyway.You either build to counter what you're having trouble with or you can hope they just absolutely gut vigor.
There is no counter. Not with the way this game heavily favors stamina builds over magicka. Not while a stam build has heals so strong that you need a healing debuff to even have a chance of scratching them, while also having damage output that has you hang on for dear life for the majority of the (very short) encounter. And that's when you are wearing heavy - if you are wearing light, there is no fight to begin with.
That's just wrong.
You want to have extreme damage output? Fine.
You want to have extemely effective healing? Fine.
You want to have extremely effective damage avoidance/mitigation? Fine.
But all three at once? Broken.
Don't use it every single time you get out of CC break, You should know when to use it..If you're being put on the defensive constantly you're probably going to lose the fight. The reason you're going on the defensive so much is because the damage you're applying is not putting him on the defensive..Why? Because he's out healing your damage and you don't run a Heal Debuff. Slap Duroks or Fasalla on and go out and try it out and let me know how you do; or Use Reverb Bash..I don't care which one you use but if you're going to fight in this game you need a Heal debuff...This counts towards Stamina Builds as well..You think I stand a damn chance vs a Magicka Templar without a Healing Debuff? I'll get bloody destroyed.
I personally wouldn't wear light armor unless you're a Sorc/Nightblade....and maybe templar depending on how ya build.
And again...you need a Healing Debuff in this game if you wanna fight anyone remotely good...Probably less needed against pug baddieshttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't use it every single time you get out of CC break, You should know when to use it.
Tell that NB to not use his mega-nuke-combo on me every single time he fears, then i will have time to attempt fancy things like a stamina attack after some CC breaks.If you're being put on the defensive constantly you're probably going to lose the fight. The reason you're going on the defensive so much is because the damage you're applying is not putting him on the defensive..Why? Because he's out healing your damage and you don't run a Heal Debuff.
No. The reason is that his own damage output is so insanely high that i simply have no time to put him on defensive. I could put him on defensive if i managed to survive his alpha strike, applied some DOTS, have them reduce his HP slowly, and wear him down. That's how it was possible to fight extreme damage stam builds before vigor was a thing. Vigor makes that impossible now.Slap Duroks or Fasalla on and go out and try it out and let me know how you do
I dont have to try it out, i am using fasalla regularly in situations where the set is useful. In a 1v1 against a stam build it is not useful because wearing it guts your damage so much that vigor outheals it even when debuffed.; or Use Reverb Bash..I don't care which one you use but if you're going to fight in this game you need a Heal debuff...This counts towards Stamina Builds as well..
Well that's the problem you see, you shouldn't have to need a healing debuff when fighting a primary DPS spec.You think I stand a damn chance vs a Magicka Templar without a Healing Debuff? I'll get bloody destroyed.
Funny that you mention it. Fights against magicka templars last about 10 times as long as those against stam builds, and the winner or loser is usually decided by who makes a mistake. That's without a healing debuff.
Edited by Sharee on August 31, 2016 8:08AM0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't use it every single time you get out of CC break, You should know when to use it.
Tell that NB to not use his mega-nuke-combo on me every single time he fears, then i will have time to attempt fancy things like a stamina attack after some CC breaks.If you're being put on the defensive constantly you're probably going to lose the fight. The reason you're going on the defensive so much is because the damage you're applying is not putting him on the defensive..Why? Because he's out healing your damage and you don't run a Heal Debuff.
No. The reason is that his own damage output is so insanely high that i simply have no time to put him on defensive. I could put him on defensive if i managed to survive his alpha strike, applied some DOTS, have them reduce his HP slowly, and wear him down. That's how it was possible to fight extreme damage stam builds before vigor was a thing. Vigor makes that impossible now.Slap Duroks or Fasalla on and go out and try it out and let me know how you do
I dont have to try it out, i am using fasalla regularly in situations where the set is useful. In a 1v1 against a stam build it is not useful because wearing it guts your damage so much that vigor outheals it even when debuffed.; or Use Reverb Bash..I don't care which one you use but if you're going to fight in this game you need a Heal debuff...This counts towards Stamina Builds as well..
Well that's the problem you see, you shouldn't have to need a healing debuff when fighting a primary DPS spec.You think I stand a damn chance vs a Magicka Templar without a Healing Debuff? I'll get bloody destroyed.
Funny that you mention it. Fights against magicka templars last about 10 times as long as those against stam builds, and the winner or loser is usually decided by who makes a mistake. That's without a healing debuff.
1. If you're having trouble with burst from NBs during fear I recommend Reactive. You'll of course need to use Reverb Bash to make up for not having Duroks/Fasalla but It'll save your ass a lot during those burst phases.
2. Vigor has existed for a very long time and it wasn't a issue before...So clearly its not vigor that's doing it. If Vigor was gutted right now pretty much Magicka Builds would swing back to be insanely OP and stamina builds being nothing but Bow Spamming. Anyway what are you currently running on your Magicka DK as a setup? Gear and such....
3. Clearly you're having trouble with heals; Clearly your damage isn't working..Clearly you should pickup a Heal Debuff.
4. Huh....Every class in this game can heal and has the capability to pickup a heal, I have zero idea why you think you wouldn't need a Heal Debuff. You're trying to go by past ideals of "Well this game has Healers and this game has DPS and they don't have Heals" when you know damn well this game doesn't work like this.
5. I imagine a Magicka DK has a better time with Magicka Templar; it is not fun as a Stamina User fighting them though. Its a bit better if you're wearing Full Heavy but its god awful in Medium Armor and relying on Dodge Rolling...*** can instant kill you easily if you're not careful
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. If you're having trouble with burst from NBs during fear I recommend Reactive. You'll of course need to use Reverb Bash to make up for not having Duroks/Fasalla but It'll save your ass a lot during those burst phases.
I'm repeating myself by now, but you leave me no choice. Reactive armor is a stamina set. It gives max stamina, it gives bloody stamina regen. Wearing that will gut my magicka DK's damage so much that i can reverb bash till the cows come home, i'm not gonna outdamage vigor, not on an enemy who is evading most of the attacks directed at him, be it through roll dodge, shuffle, or cloak.
And this is not armchair theory either, i have a full set of gold reactive armor sitting in the bank. I tried. It does not work.3. Vigor has existed for a very long time and it wasn't a issue before...So clearly its not vigor that's doing it. If Vigor was gutted right now pretty much Magicka Builds would swing back to be insanely OP and stamina builds being nothing but Bow Spamming.
I was playing a stamina NB at release, where i not only didn't have vigor, i didn't have any stamina morphs of class skills either. And you know what, the class was fun to play (except when fighting at-that-time overpowered magicka DK's, of course, but that wasn't a stamina weakness)3. Clearly you're having trouble with heals; Clearly your damage isn't working..Clearly you should pickup a Heal Debuff.
No i am not having trouble with heals, i am having trouble with a DPS spec healing himself just as effectively as an effin healer would.4. Huh....Every class in this game can heal and has the capability to pickup a heal, I have zero idea why you think you wouldn't need a Heal Debuff. You're trying to go by past ideals of "Well this game has Healers and this game has DPS and they don't have Heals" when you know damn well this game doesn't work like this.
The problem isn't that all classes have heals. Stam specs have rally, and i have no problem with that. The problem is that a non-healer is capable of healing himself from near-death to full in a timeframe that should only be reserved for a dedicated healer.
Once again, extreme damage, extreme damage avoidance/mitigation, and extreme healing should not all be on the same class/spec. Currently, thanks to vigor, stam builds have all three, which makes them overpowered compared to magicka builds.
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Berenhir✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. If you're having trouble with burst from NBs during fear I recommend Reactive. You'll of course need to use Reverb Bash to make up for not having Duroks/Fasalla but It'll save your ass a lot during those burst phases.
I'm repeating myself by now, but you leave me no choice. Reactive armor is a stamina set. It gives max stamina, it gives bloody stamina regen. Wearing that will gut my magicka DK's damage so much that i can reverb bash till the cows come home, i'm not gonna outdamage vigor, not on an enemy who is evading most of the attacks directed at him, be it through roll dodge, shuffle, or cloak.
And this is not armchair theory either, i have a full set of gold reactive armor sitting in the bank. I tried. It does not work.3. Vigor has existed for a very long time and it wasn't a issue before...So clearly its not vigor that's doing it. If Vigor was gutted right now pretty much Magicka Builds would swing back to be insanely OP and stamina builds being nothing but Bow Spamming.
I was playing a stamina NB at release, where i not only didn't have vigor, i didn't have any stamina morphs of class skills either. And you know what, the class was fun to play (except when fighting at-that-time overpowered magicka DK's, of course, but that wasn't a stamina weakness)3. Clearly you're having trouble with heals; Clearly your damage isn't working..Clearly you should pickup a Heal Debuff.
No i am not having trouble with heals, i am having trouble with a DPS spec healing himself just as effectively as an effin healer would.4. Huh....Every class in this game can heal and has the capability to pickup a heal, I have zero idea why you think you wouldn't need a Heal Debuff. You're trying to go by past ideals of "Well this game has Healers and this game has DPS and they don't have Heals" when you know damn well this game doesn't work like this.
The problem isn't that all classes have heals. Stam specs have rally, and i have no problem with that. The problem is that a non-healer is capable of healing himself from near-death to full in a timeframe that should only be reserved for a dedicated healer.
Once again, extreme damage, extreme damage avoidance/mitigation, and extreme healing should not all be on the same class/spec. Currently, thanks to vigor, stam builds have all three, which makes them overpowered compared to magicka builds.
This.
But the stamina specs just don't get it with their 2 seconds god mode roll that they use to animation cancel their healing.
I would love to see those sweet tears if they made dodge roll an ability that would have to be put on your bar. No animation cancelling god mode anymore.
If I had a dedicated key for shields or cloak that I could use to animation cancel my skills giving me for example major expedition on my resto staff things would look different.PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. If you're having trouble with burst from NBs during fear I recommend Reactive. You'll of course need to use Reverb Bash to make up for not having Duroks/Fasalla but It'll save your ass a lot during those burst phases.
I'm repeating myself by now, but you leave me no choice. Reactive armor is a stamina set. It gives max stamina, it gives bloody stamina regen. Wearing that will gut my magicka DK's damage so much that i can reverb bash till the cows come home, i'm not gonna outdamage vigor, not on an enemy who is evading most of the attacks directed at him, be it through roll dodge, shuffle, or cloak.
And this is not armchair theory either, i have a full set of gold reactive armor sitting in the bank. I tried. It does not work.3. Vigor has existed for a very long time and it wasn't a issue before...So clearly its not vigor that's doing it. If Vigor was gutted right now pretty much Magicka Builds would swing back to be insanely OP and stamina builds being nothing but Bow Spamming.
I was playing a stamina NB at release, where i not only didn't have vigor, i didn't have any stamina morphs of class skills either. And you know what, the class was fun to play (except when fighting at-that-time overpowered magicka DK's, of course, but that wasn't a stamina weakness)3. Clearly you're having trouble with heals; Clearly your damage isn't working..Clearly you should pickup a Heal Debuff.
No i am not having trouble with heals, i am having trouble with a DPS spec healing himself just as effectively as an effin healer would.4. Huh....Every class in this game can heal and has the capability to pickup a heal, I have zero idea why you think you wouldn't need a Heal Debuff. You're trying to go by past ideals of "Well this game has Healers and this game has DPS and they don't have Heals" when you know damn well this game doesn't work like this.
The problem isn't that all classes have heals. Stam specs have rally, and i have no problem with that. The problem is that a non-healer is capable of healing himself from near-death to full in a timeframe that should only be reserved for a dedicated healer.
Once again, extreme damage, extreme damage avoidance/mitigation, and extreme healing should not all be on the same class/spec. Currently, thanks to vigor, stam builds have all three, which makes them overpowered compared to magicka builds.
1. Stamina and stamina recovery are not useless to a magicka DK; yes you will take a hit on damage but it might help you during those burst phases if you're having trouble. You're clearly having trouble with it this patch so that's one option you have. Or you can continue to maintain your current status of not killing them and dying.
2. Game is a lot different from launch and isn't comparable; if you think stamina would be viable without vigor go take your nightblade and run around without it and try it out. In fact make a video of it.
3. No, you're having trouble with heals... Every single dps setup in this game can run massive heals. There is no such thing as a dps class in this game that doesn't run heals... You probably run a restro on your back bar for you guessed it... Heals... And vigor in no way compares to an actual dedicated healer.... But complaining that stamina users have heals when magicka has heals and have ran heals since the beginning of the game is silly. Now you can choose to not run a healing debuff... But I personally did not find that successful
4. Magicka Templar/sorcs/magicka nb can achieve all three of those things you just listed. Should we nerf them as well?https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unless you decide to actually use the Reverb Bash. Its a route you can take if you choose to but you have two viable options there to deal with it.
If you believe that using a costly stamina attack as a magicka DK (against an enemy running shuffle and rolling all the time) is a viable option, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Its a bloody 10 second Healing Debuff, yes I think you should use it
It does not matter how long the debuff is, a magicka spec simply cannot afford using an expensive stamina attack that will on average miss 2 times out of 3 tries due to the target running shuffle and/or roll dodging.
I assume you use CC break?
Use it after CC break on the target.
If you've build your character with the right CP you'll be fine; if not Pick up one of the sets I suggested..Or continue to complain that your Heavily Dot based DPS is having trouble killing Stam Users....You either build to counter what you're having trouble with or you can hope they just absolutely gut vigor.Joy_Division wrote: »[
Magicka dks generally build tanky so duroks or fasalla is a pretty good setup for them; or they can run 1hd shield like damn near everyone of them runs in pvp. If you want to use dw I recommend fasalla or duroks.
Great, your mDK can put on a heal debuff. Go ahead and heal debuff me, I'll go AFK and get a sandwich, when I come back your DK might have me down to 50% health.
I spam dark flare every night in Cyrodiil. High weapon damage + vigor/rally is enough for players who know what they are doing to still heal through lots of incoming damage. To say nothing that vigor users themselves have access to heal debuffs so it's not like that's a weakness that is supposed to balance it Vs. mutagen.
Are you really trying to argue with me on this? At best you're going to heal for 4500 with Vigor, That's 2250 Heal over time with a heal debuff on ya....I'll give ya say 1250 on rally Extra....and i'm being generous there.... that's 3500 Heal you have to deal with....Are you telling me you can't outdamage that?
Wow, you are ssooooooo wrong. Vigor heals for much more than that. You can also use it inside an enemy negate bubble...
I've yet to see Vigor Heal for more then 4500; And I generally run a Blackrose/Fury build so my Weapon Damage gets insane at certain points..I also don't know why you brought up Negate.....Did I Mention Negate?
At best 4500? Thats per tic every .5 seconds right? Also I mentioned how it works inside a Negate bubble just to point out yet another bonus stam gets over everything else. The skill is OP and thats why so many like it.0
