UltimaJoe777 wrote: »Now I've seen it all... Someone asking the DEVS to take something ENTIRELY PLAYER DRIVEN into their own hands. What's next, shall we have Wrobel tell us what builds we HAVE to run?
As for the TL;DR parts, just another one of those threads complaining about Stamina DPS builds...
ParaNostram wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »Now I've seen it all... Someone asking the DEVS to take something ENTIRELY PLAYER DRIVEN into their own hands. What's next, shall we have Wrobel tell us what builds we HAVE to run?
As for the TL;DR parts, just another one of those threads complaining about Stamina DPS builds...
Min maxers choose what is the most effective mechanically speaking. This isn't entirely player driven, this is people seeing what is most effective and doing it as one play style is rewarded by far above all others.
UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ParaNostram wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »Now I've seen it all... Someone asking the DEVS to take something ENTIRELY PLAYER DRIVEN into their own hands. What's next, shall we have Wrobel tell us what builds we HAVE to run?
As for the TL;DR parts, just another one of those threads complaining about Stamina DPS builds...
Min maxers choose what is the most effective mechanically speaking. This isn't entirely player driven, this is people seeing what is most effective and doing it as one play style is rewarded by far above all others.
I'd say we have different definitions of "rewarded" there. And yes, the meta IS entirely player driven as THEY are the ones that work with what's provided. If you want something provided then you're not asking for anything related to the meta, you're just asking for changes to the game the meta can either take or leave alone. No change is guaranteed to be picked up by the meta, especially when they find it useless.
ParaNostram wrote: »I just want to see more variety, that's all. I want this game to reflect one of the many aspects that have made TES games great, the ability to play however YOU want to play. However, in a competitive environment, playing anything other than the absolute best build will feel like playing with a handicap.
ParaNostram wrote: »All that PvP consists of these days are stamina burst builds it seems. The meta is get in, get a quick CC, and hope they don't have enough stamina to break CC before you burst them down. What does this mean? PvP fights become a matter of who has more stamina and who has more burst damage. It's no fun. It's especially no fun as it gives stamina users an inherent advantage. Sure, you can overcome it with sheer skill (inb4 "git gud" replies) but to play anything other than a stamina burst build feels like you're not living up to your potential.
So Stamina has some of if not the best damage as well as a larger resource pool for the most important mechanic in PvP, the CC break. Well, certainly there must be some down sides, right? Let's go down the list of things that matter most in PvP combat.
Damage - incredible burst potential, especially if you are a Nightblade.
CC - Not as much as magicka users here, but every class has an inherent CC ability so they can just use their magicka pools for these (looking at NB ambush fear surprise attack spammers, as if that takes any creativity or skill).
Damage Mitigation - Shuffle stackers, dodge rollers, you can cheese your way to victory, though I don't think it's very fon to due (get it? fondue? inb4 "South Park did it" comments).
Maneuverability - Dodge roll and sprint, 'nough said.
Healing - This is a point in the Magicka users favor, but a skilled Stamina user can easily keep themselves topped off with Vigor and Rally.
Field control - Class dependent, but magicka sorcs seem to be the game here so a very talented and aware magicka sorc will have this ONE advantage here.
Simply put, Stamina users are on top right now. So long as the easiest way to win fights is to jump in, CC, and burst them down, the meta will always favor damage burst worsening the problem and Stamina users will always have the easiest time surviving due to their ability to CC break.
There needs to be something done to shift up the meta or give magicka users a little bit of an edge if we want to keep the DPS burst race meta in PvP. Personally, I would love to see a return of tank builds for longer engagements but it just isn't viable, it's less viable than magicka builds and more skill intensive and you just can't DPS through anyone's heals.
Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »
Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »
Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »
90% of top tier players and streamers main a stamina build. I'm also being generous with that number. What does that mean?
90% of top tier players and streamers main a stamina build. I'm also being generous with that number. What does that mean?
It means guessing and math don't go together.
Sypher is currently on magica bomb blade as well as a mag sorc.
FengRush has been a stam sorc since before stam sorc was cool
King Richard was a magica sorc and switches between several different builds but was building out a bomb blade on his stream yesterday.
Those are just off the top checks. 33 is way short of 90.
ParaNostram wrote: »All that PvP consists of these days are stamina burst builds it seems. The meta is get in, get a quick CC, and hope they don't have enough stamina to break CC before you burst them down. What does this mean? PvP fights become a matter of who has more stamina and who has more burst damage. It's no fun. It's especially no fun as it gives stamina users an inherent advantage. Sure, you can overcome it with sheer skill (inb4 "git gud" replies) but to play anything other than a stamina burst build feels like you're not living up to your potential.
So Stamina has some of if not the best damage as well as a larger resource pool for the most important mechanic in PvP, the CC break. Well, certainly there must be some down sides, right? Let's go down the list of things that matter most in PvP combat.
Damage - incredible burst potential, especially if you are a Nightblade.
CC - Not as much as magicka users here, but every class has an inherent CC ability so they can just use their magicka pools for these (looking at NB ambush fear surprise attack spammers, as if that takes any creativity or skill).
Damage Mitigation - Shuffle stackers, dodge rollers, you can cheese your way to victory, though I don't think it's very fon to due (get it? fondue? inb4 "South Park did it" comments).
Maneuverability - Dodge roll and sprint, 'nough said.
Healing - This is a point in the Magicka users favor, but a skilled Stamina user can easily keep themselves topped off with Vigor and Rally.
Field control - Class dependent, but magicka sorcs seem to be the game here so a very talented and aware magicka sorc will have this ONE advantage here.
Simply put, Stamina users are on top right now. So long as the easiest way to win fights is to jump in, CC, and burst them down, the meta will always favor damage burst worsening the problem and Stamina users will always have the easiest time surviving due to their ability to CC break.
There needs to be something done to shift up the meta or give magicka users a little bit of an edge if we want to keep the DPS burst race meta in PvP. Personally, I would love to see a return of tank builds for longer engagements but it just isn't viable, it's less viable than magicka builds and more skill intensive and you just can't DPS through anyone's heals.
Shuffle stackers
90% of top tier players and streamers main a stamina build. I'm also being generous with that number. What does that mean?