Why is it easier to get Flawless than it is to get a sharpened greatsword?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Another option, allow VMA weapons to be traded for one another. How amazaballs would that be? Someone hinted at it earlier.

Admittedly, they really helped the RNG nightmare with bind on group. The two places this does nothing is Monster Shoulders and VMA weapons. If you made them trade-able with one another, all of our problems would be solved. People would still have a carrot because a nice drop would still net you a little gold I am guessing, and people wouldnt want to rage quite the game over a damn staff.

I'd even be fine if you could trade in a Maelstrom weapon for a token, and it took 3-5 tokens for a weapon of your choice.

Missed that post earlier. They could do this and make the number a lot higher. I like the idea of deconstructing a VMA weapon to yield a "VMA Stone" (dont care what you call it). Even if the number was like 20-30 stones for a desired weapon, I would be fine with it.

I am all for a nice long grind to get what I want if there is a reasonable end in sight. The problem with the system we have is that there is no end. I have wanted exactly three things out of this place since DB launched. I am 0% closer to that goal. In other words, every second I have spent in VMA was a total wast of f'ing time. If there was a token system, I might not be at the finish line by now, but I would be closer and wouldnt want to burn things.

Recremen · August 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw this is what you've been training for Bear!

Just kill me now.

I got real excited about re-grinding this place for about 2 weeks. I say regrinding this because I already did it once to get precise in most things, back when precise was better in trials before they changed it. Now I am after sharpened. The only sharpened thing I have seen in grind 2.0 is sharpened Resto.

Hey guys look how awesome ZOS is. They are giving us a drop every run. BUT WAIT!!!! They tripled the size of the loot table. JK... Its far worse than it ever was. Can we please go back to November 2015? K thanks.

Give us the ability to change traits or give us a token system. For the love of god. Also, you think this is bad? How impossible is it going to be to get a monster shoulder in anything useful next patch. There will be more of them than weapons, and they still have a loot table that seems to be about 90% prosperous and training.

Edit: Also, while I encourage people to keep making these threads, they will never get a meaningful response from the Devs. They view RNG as the only carrot they have to lead us all. Shame, because they dont realize (or dont give a flying F)that there are people leaving this otherwise wonderful game over a broken loot system. The game itself should be the carrot...

It's such a shame they're still using what appears to be pure RNG as the only carrot. There are so many modified RNG systems that would keep the carrot but lose the stick. For instance, you can keep track of per-character loot payout and simply remove already-awarded items from the loot table until the whole table has been distributed, at which point it resets. Under this system, dual-wield weapons would of course need to be distributed two at a time, but that's ALREADY something that should be happening. Totes ridonculous that every other weapon type only needs one copy. There are some other ideas floating around my RNG thread.

Preventing double drops would solve the problem immediately. Even with DW, it doesnt matter too much. I run double axes at the moment on Stam DPS, because every dagger I have is charged or defending. No double drops would be fine with me as I want to run 1 Sharp Axe, 1 Sharp Dagger. On magic, I do not even run a VMA weapon because only one is superior to crafted, and that is sharpened Destro. I have precise Destros collecting dust ATM.

The only people this would really hurt is people wanting to run double Sharp staff, or double bow for example, or people trying to gear more than one toon. You could even take this one step further. No double drops per character. That way if you really did need 2 of something, you could: 1. Run it 96 times on a toon and start over, or 2. Start running on others toons once your first toon got it.

ANYTHING would be better than it is now. I have been playing since beta, and my main goal is trials. I am in a good group that does speedruns of VMOL, but I am close to my end with this game (and yes, it's over a Damn trait on a weapon). I can do a rotation perfectly, but my DPS is always going to be less than the guy next to me who had better RNG in a BS solo instance. It makes no sense, and I know many players, good f'ing players, that already saw through the nonsense and left.

@Recremen I really like your other thread, read it earlier today. It illustrates nicely just how bad RNG can be. What I really don't get is why they are so set on this in the first place? If you gave players a meaningful way to progress/improve their gear, none of this would be an issue. There would be a big enough "carrot" for everyone. You are telling me that an enchanter can change the enchant on a VMA weapon (thus making it useless), a woodworker or blacksmith can decon it or upgrade it, but noone in all of tamriel has the power to trade it or turn a charged dagger into a sharpened dagger? Where is the lore in that?

Also you think this is bad, just wait until there are 540 possible monster shoulders to deal with.

Oh yes, sorry, that's what I meant by "per-character" loot payout tracking. That way you can still get duplicates "easily" across multiple characters in case you're looking to run more items. To be sure, the system I was proposing could stand for some more refinement to make it truly player and service-provider friendly, but I'm glad you think it's a step in the right direction! And I'm glad you liked my thread!

boldscot · August 2016

I just got a charged dagger, why Maelstrom? Why?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2016

boldscot wrote: »

I just got a charged dagger, why Maelstrom? Why?

That was my most recent drop. I wanted to cry...

sluice · August 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

boldscot wrote: »

I just got a charged dagger, why Maelstrom? Why?

That was my most recent drop. I wanted to cry...

I just got a Infused Greatsword...

My last 10 drops:
Mace & Shield
Lightning Staff - Nirnhoned
Maul - Defending
Lightning Staff - Precise
Sword & Shield
Maul - Powered
Mace & Shield
BattleAxe - Nirnhoned
Restoration Staff - Precise
Greatsword - Infused

Every time I see a 2H... I get so excited... and then disappointed.
At least, I guess I can say I'm lucky for getting 2H... 4 of them in 10 drops.

KingMagaw · August 2016

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

sluice · August 2016

@KingMagaw

You tell me what is more boring:

Spending 20 hours in PvP?
VS
Spending 20 hours in vMA?

But I understand your point, and we agree on the same point. Spending more time in making your build than playing it, is lame.. A lot are quitting because of it.

KingMagaw · August 2016

sluice wrote: »

@KingMagaw

You tell me what is more boring:

Spending 20 hours in PvP?
VS
Spending 20 hours in vMA?

But I understand your point, and we agree on the same point. Spending more time in making your build than playing it, is lame.. A lot are quitting because of it.

I agree with you totally mate. Spending 20 hours in vMA is a necessary evil to progress your build. This is behind a paywall also, either sub or buy Wrothgar.

But play 20 hours in PvP, on top of 2 years of PvP, same cyro, apart from the small towns which offer little to nothing, is also quite boring. So i am at a loss to be honest.

sluice · August 2016

@KingMagaw, yeah I'm so rarely in Cyro anymore.. I'm pretty much always in IC/Sewers.
I had high hopes for the villages.. but they are always empty or zerged down.

sluice · August 2016

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Recremen · August 2016

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

Strider_Roshin · August 2016

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

I don't believe it's OP, but that's due to the fact that defending grants you the same bonus to yourself. The issue I see has to do with the Precise, and Nirnhoned traits. Precise is pretty meh at the moment, but if they were to increase the bonus to 10% I believe that it would actually be worth slotting for PvE, and on a resto staff for guaranteed crit heals. Nirnhoned on the other hand really just doesn't have a place. If they were to increase the bonus to 25% however then it might actually be worth using since the raw damage increase would be large enough to compete with Sharpened, and in some situations it may actually be better.

sluice · August 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

I don't believe it's OP, but that's due to the fact that defending grants you the same bonus to yourself. The issue I see has to do with the Precise, and Nirnhoned traits. Precise is pretty meh at the moment, but if they were to increase the bonus to 10% I believe that it would actually be worth slotting for PvE, and on a resto staff for guaranteed crit heals. Nirnhoned on the other hand really just doesn't have a place. If they were to increase the bonus to 25% however then it might actually be worth using since the raw damage increase would be large enough to compete with Sharpened, and in some situations it may actually be better.

Well yeah, buffing Precise and Nirnhoned is probably easier in the sens that if you nerf Sharpened, you need to nerf Defensive and look into the overall resistance player have from different armor type and buffs.

But my point is Sharpened is OP compared to all other traits. There are no substitute to Sharpened for a damage dealer, unfortunately.

It would be at least interesting if Nirnhoned would be better than Sharpened in scenarios where you are fighting someone with low to medium resistance.

Strider_Roshin · August 2016

sluice wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

I don't believe it's OP, but that's due to the fact that defending grants you the same bonus to yourself. The issue I see has to do with the Precise, and Nirnhoned traits. Precise is pretty meh at the moment, but if they were to increase the bonus to 10% I believe that it would actually be worth slotting for PvE, and on a resto staff for guaranteed crit heals. Nirnhoned on the other hand really just doesn't have a place. If they were to increase the bonus to 25% however then it might actually be worth using since the raw damage increase would be large enough to compete with Sharpened, and in some situations it may actually be better.

Well yeah, buffing Precise and Nirnhoned is probably easier in the sens that if you nerf Sharpened, you need to nerf Defensive and look into the overall resistance player have from different armor type and buffs.

But my point is Sharpened is OP compared to all other traits. There are no substitute to Sharpened for a damage dealer, unfortunately.

It would be at least interesting if Nirnhoned would be better than Sharpened in scenarios where you are fighting someone with low to medium resistance.

Agreed. It would be nice if it were like this:
Sharpened: Excels in PvP
Precise: Excels in PvE
Nirnhoned: Decent option for both

Unfortunately it's currently like this:
Sharpened: Always

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2016

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Recremen · August 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Oh I'm not doubting its superiority in PvE, I was talking strictly about Precise's potential in PvP. While I don't personally run into this situation, folks allegedly are able to do more with Precise than Sharpened in a variety of PvP scenarios, particularly due to the amount of Impenetrable that some opposing groups wear.

Strider_Roshin · August 2016

You know what would be a game changer? If they were to change precise so that it increases your crit damage rather than your crit chance.

Food for thought.

KingMagaw · August 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Since i don't work for Z0$, my interest will always lay with the player base. I totally agree with a token system and have played many games where i have enjoyed this mechanic. My view analysis was from the company perspective and to either raise or limit profits and i think we all know in business it is about raising profits. But smart business is about raising profits while maintaining and supporting solid client relationships - Z0$ does not do this, in forum posts or ESO live episodes, which are cringe worthy for me to watch or in support tickets by spamming me with auto responses for multiple replies i make. I dont make tickets anymore, pointless.

My point about boredom was this. Playing any content over and over again is repetitive and boring. I may get bored after 10 turns, you 20, someone else 100, but i think that fact remains. Cyro hasn't really changed since release, seeing the same terrain, same layouts, same strategies being applied, night after night, it has wore on me. PvP is the only liquid game play where fights can change from one to the other and it has been sorely neglected.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2016

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Oh I'm not doubting its superiority in PvE, I was talking strictly about Precise's potential in PvP. While I don't personally run into this situation, folks allegedly are able to do more with Precise than Sharpened in a variety of PvP scenarios, particularly due to the amount of Impenetrable that some opposing groups wear.

I am missing something. Why do people run precise in PVP? Other than a ganker build to one-shot lowbies, its hard to imagine it being viable. I would rather run defending than precise in PVE. You said it yourself, people stack impen, making crit not particularly desirable. I could see Nirn being a thing in PVP I suppose.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Since i don't work for Z0$, my interest will always lay with the player base. I totally agree with a token system and have played many games where i have enjoyed this mechanic. My view analysis was from the company perspective and to either raise or limit profits and i think we all know in business it is about raising profits. But smart business is about raising profits while maintaining and supporting solid client relationships - Z0$ does not do this, in forum posts or ESO live episodes, which are cringe worthy for me to watch or in support tickets by spamming me with auto responses for multiple replies i make. I dont make tickets anymore, pointless.

My point about boredom was this. Playing any content over and over again is repetitive and boring. I may get bored after 10 turns, you 20, someone else 100, but i think that fact remains. Cyro hasn't really changed since release, seeing the same terrain, same layouts, same strategies being applied, night after night, it has wore on me. PvP is the only liquid game play where fights can change from one to the other and it has been sorely neglected.

I dont disagree with any of that. If I came off has harsh, my bad. Talking about VMA get my bloodpressure moving. haha.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what would be a game changer? If they were to change precise so that it increases your crit damage rather than your crit chance.

Food for thought.

I like where your heads at, bud.

Jaronking · August 2016

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

The thing is for PVP sharpened is needed because of all the heavy armor builds going around now.Right now I run a nirn MA greatsword in PVP I hit hard but I'll hit so much harder if I was running sharpened.Sharp is needed right now for my part of the game.For PVE you can get away with running precise and nirn but PVP its not as forgiving.Nothing they do will make precise Useful for PVP because of how big impen is.I think if they revert the change to nirn or have it increase your spell and weapon damage not the dam damage of your weapon it will get a lot more use.I personally don't know a buff they can do other than. Revert the sharpened change that would work.

I will admit the day I get my sharpened 2H is the day I stop posting in these threads lol.

I agree with @Strider_Roshin

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

I don't believe it's OP, but that's due to the fact that defending grants you the same bonus to yourself. The issue I see has to do with the Precise, and Nirnhoned traits. Precise is pretty meh at the moment, but if they were to increase the bonus to 10% I believe that it would actually be worth slotting for PvE, and on a resto staff for guaranteed crit heals. Nirnhoned on the other hand really just doesn't have a place. If they were to increase the bonus to 25% however then it might actually be worth using since the raw damage increase would be large enough to compete with Sharpened, and in some situations it may actually be better.

Well yeah, buffing Precise and Nirnhoned is probably easier in the sens that if you nerf Sharpened, you need to nerf Defensive and look into the overall resistance player have from different armor type and buffs.

But my point is Sharpened is OP compared to all other traits. There are no substitute to Sharpened for a damage dealer, unfortunately.

It would be at least interesting if Nirnhoned would be better than Sharpened in scenarios where you are fighting someone with low to medium resistance.

Agreed. It would be nice if it were like this:
Sharpened: Excels in PvP
Precise: Excels in PvE
Nirnhoned: Decent option for both

Unfortunately it's currently like this:
Sharpened: Always

This is what they need to bring back.These 3 traits should have their place but right now they don't have it.

Also I don't know how many more I can do VMA that *** going make me quit the game with all the lag and bugs and than you finished and you get a charged weapon.I stop playing for 3 days after that.

Recremen · August 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Oh I'm not doubting its superiority in PvE, I was talking strictly about Precise's potential in PvP. While I don't personally run into this situation, folks allegedly are able to do more with Precise than Sharpened in a variety of PvP scenarios, particularly due to the amount of Impenetrable that some opposing groups wear.

I am missing something. Why do people run precise in PVP? Other than a ganker build to one-shot lowbies, its hard to imagine it being viable. I would rather run defending than precise in PVE. You said it yourself, people stack impen, making crit not particularly desirable. I could see Nirn being a thing in PVP I suppose.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Since i don't work for Z0$, my interest will always lay with the player base. I totally agree with a token system and have played many games where i have enjoyed this mechanic. My view analysis was from the company perspective and to either raise or limit profits and i think we all know in business it is about raising profits. But smart business is about raising profits while maintaining and supporting solid client relationships - Z0$ does not do this, in forum posts or ESO live episodes, which are cringe worthy for me to watch or in support tickets by spamming me with auto responses for multiple replies i make. I dont make tickets anymore, pointless.

My point about boredom was this. Playing any content over and over again is repetitive and boring. I may get bored after 10 turns, you 20, someone else 100, but i think that fact remains. Cyro hasn't really changed since release, seeing the same terrain, same layouts, same strategies being applied, night after night, it has wore on me. PvP is the only liquid game play where fights can change from one to the other and it has been sorely neglected.

I dont disagree with any of that. If I came off has harsh, my bad. Talking about VMA get my bloodpressure moving. haha.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what would be a game changer? If they were to change precise so that it increases your crit damage rather than your crit chance.

Food for thought.

I like where your heads at, bud.

Sorry, I've gotten my traits mixed up, Sharpened is the one that some people run in PvP. I was underthe impression that Precise was better for PvE but apparently I'm mistaken.

Jaronking · August 2016

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Oh I'm not doubting its superiority in PvE, I was talking strictly about Precise's potential in PvP. While I don't personally run into this situation, folks allegedly are able to do more with Precise than Sharpened in a variety of PvP scenarios, particularly due to the amount of Impenetrable that some opposing groups wear.

I am missing something. Why do people run precise in PVP? Other than a ganker build to one-shot lowbies, its hard to imagine it being viable. I would rather run defending than precise in PVE. You said it yourself, people stack impen, making crit not particularly desirable. I could see Nirn being a thing in PVP I suppose.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Since i don't work for Z0$, my interest will always lay with the player base. I totally agree with a token system and have played many games where i have enjoyed this mechanic. My view analysis was from the company perspective and to either raise or limit profits and i think we all know in business it is about raising profits. But smart business is about raising profits while maintaining and supporting solid client relationships - Z0$ does not do this, in forum posts or ESO live episodes, which are cringe worthy for me to watch or in support tickets by spamming me with auto responses for multiple replies i make. I dont make tickets anymore, pointless.

My point about boredom was this. Playing any content over and over again is repetitive and boring. I may get bored after 10 turns, you 20, someone else 100, but i think that fact remains. Cyro hasn't really changed since release, seeing the same terrain, same layouts, same strategies being applied, night after night, it has wore on me. PvP is the only liquid game play where fights can change from one to the other and it has been sorely neglected.

I dont disagree with any of that. If I came off has harsh, my bad. Talking about VMA get my bloodpressure moving. haha.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what would be a game changer? If they were to change precise so that it increases your crit damage rather than your crit chance.

Food for thought.

I like where your heads at, bud.

Sorry, I've gotten my traits mixed up, Sharpened is the one that some people run in PvP. I was underthe impression that Precise was better for PvE but apparently I'm mistaken.

Most people run or try to run sharpened in PVP.Not a lot of people run precise because their no point to.Your crit means nothing unless on a back bar for healing.Precise is second for PVE for DW one Sharpened one precise is good.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2016

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Oh I'm not doubting its superiority in PvE, I was talking strictly about Precise's potential in PvP. While I don't personally run into this situation, folks allegedly are able to do more with Precise than Sharpened in a variety of PvP scenarios, particularly due to the amount of Impenetrable that some opposing groups wear.

I am missing something. Why do people run precise in PVP? Other than a ganker build to one-shot lowbies, its hard to imagine it being viable. I would rather run defending than precise in PVE. You said it yourself, people stack impen, making crit not particularly desirable. I could see Nirn being a thing in PVP I suppose.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Since i don't work for Z0$, my interest will always lay with the player base. I totally agree with a token system and have played many games where i have enjoyed this mechanic. My view analysis was from the company perspective and to either raise or limit profits and i think we all know in business it is about raising profits. But smart business is about raising profits while maintaining and supporting solid client relationships - Z0$ does not do this, in forum posts or ESO live episodes, which are cringe worthy for me to watch or in support tickets by spamming me with auto responses for multiple replies i make. I dont make tickets anymore, pointless.

My point about boredom was this. Playing any content over and over again is repetitive and boring. I may get bored after 10 turns, you 20, someone else 100, but i think that fact remains. Cyro hasn't really changed since release, seeing the same terrain, same layouts, same strategies being applied, night after night, it has wore on me. PvP is the only liquid game play where fights can change from one to the other and it has been sorely neglected.

I dont disagree with any of that. If I came off has harsh, my bad. Talking about VMA get my bloodpressure moving. haha.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what would be a game changer? If they were to change precise so that it increases your crit damage rather than your crit chance.

Food for thought.

I like where your heads at, bud.

Sorry, I've gotten my traits mixed up, Sharpened is the one that some people run in PvP. I was underthe impression that Precise was better for PvE but apparently I'm mistaken.

For a long time, Precise was better in PVE if you had a proper warhorn rotation (i.e. they are being cast about every 10-15 seconds). Once they changed sharpened to a flat amount of penetration, this went out the window.

On paper, you can create scenarios (i.e. stacking a ton of debuffs) where a boss will essentially have zero armor. In that hypothetical scenario, precise or even nirn would outperform sharpened because the penetration is wasted at 0 armor. What I am suggesting, is that this is not realistic for even the best raid groups 100% of the time. The best DPS in the best raids still go sharpened if they can because they simply pull more total DPS throughout a 6-8 minute fight.

As I have said before, I hung up my precise VMA Inferno staff for a sharpened crafted set, and I saw a noticeable increase. I will not say that our raid is perfect (far from it), but we are competitive (VMOL speedruns) and do a solid job with debuffs. None of our DPS run precise if they can help it as far as I know. Same holds true for some of the big name guilds as well as far as I know.

Theorycrafters might sit here and tell you that the math suggests Precise > sharpened in a perfect raid, and actual raiders will respond by saying the perfect raid is a myth.

Jaronking wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Oh I'm not doubting its superiority in PvE, I was talking strictly about Precise's potential in PvP. While I don't personally run into this situation, folks allegedly are able to do more with Precise than Sharpened in a variety of PvP scenarios, particularly due to the amount of Impenetrable that some opposing groups wear.

I am missing something. Why do people run precise in PVP? Other than a ganker build to one-shot lowbies, its hard to imagine it being viable. I would rather run defending than precise in PVE. You said it yourself, people stack impen, making crit not particularly desirable. I could see Nirn being a thing in PVP I suppose.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Since i don't work for Z0$, my interest will always lay with the player base. I totally agree with a token system and have played many games where i have enjoyed this mechanic. My view analysis was from the company perspective and to either raise or limit profits and i think we all know in business it is about raising profits. But smart business is about raising profits while maintaining and supporting solid client relationships - Z0$ does not do this, in forum posts or ESO live episodes, which are cringe worthy for me to watch or in support tickets by spamming me with auto responses for multiple replies i make. I dont make tickets anymore, pointless.

My point about boredom was this. Playing any content over and over again is repetitive and boring. I may get bored after 10 turns, you 20, someone else 100, but i think that fact remains. Cyro hasn't really changed since release, seeing the same terrain, same layouts, same strategies being applied, night after night, it has wore on me. PvP is the only liquid game play where fights can change from one to the other and it has been sorely neglected.

I dont disagree with any of that. If I came off has harsh, my bad. Talking about VMA get my bloodpressure moving. haha.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what would be a game changer? If they were to change precise so that it increases your crit damage rather than your crit chance.

Food for thought.

I like where your heads at, bud.

Sorry, I've gotten my traits mixed up, Sharpened is the one that some people run in PvP. I was underthe impression that Precise was better for PvE but apparently I'm mistaken.

Most people run or try to run sharpened in PVP.Not a lot of people run precise because their no point to.Your crit means nothing unless on a back bar for healing.Precise is second for PVE for DW one Sharpened one precise is good.

I think 2 sharpened is better. I currently run double Axe (one sharp one precise), because all my daggers are defending or charged. I recently tried going Sharp Axe and defending dagger (my crit actually goes up, but I lose the second bleed), and it's so close I honestly cant tell. If I go Precise Axe and Defending dagger, its a huge decrease.

I think there are more options to debuff for stamina than magic, so again, you might be able to get to a point where Sharp Axe +Precise Dagger out performs, Sharp Axe + Sharp Dagger, but I have not actually been in that raid. Haha.

Jaronking · August 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Oh I'm not doubting its superiority in PvE, I was talking strictly about Precise's potential in PvP. While I don't personally run into this situation, folks allegedly are able to do more with Precise than Sharpened in a variety of PvP scenarios, particularly due to the amount of Impenetrable that some opposing groups wear.

I am missing something. Why do people run precise in PVP? Other than a ganker build to one-shot lowbies, its hard to imagine it being viable. I would rather run defending than precise in PVE. You said it yourself, people stack impen, making crit not particularly desirable. I could see Nirn being a thing in PVP I suppose.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Since i don't work for Z0$, my interest will always lay with the player base. I totally agree with a token system and have played many games where i have enjoyed this mechanic. My view analysis was from the company perspective and to either raise or limit profits and i think we all know in business it is about raising profits. But smart business is about raising profits while maintaining and supporting solid client relationships - Z0$ does not do this, in forum posts or ESO live episodes, which are cringe worthy for me to watch or in support tickets by spamming me with auto responses for multiple replies i make. I dont make tickets anymore, pointless.

My point about boredom was this. Playing any content over and over again is repetitive and boring. I may get bored after 10 turns, you 20, someone else 100, but i think that fact remains. Cyro hasn't really changed since release, seeing the same terrain, same layouts, same strategies being applied, night after night, it has wore on me. PvP is the only liquid game play where fights can change from one to the other and it has been sorely neglected.

I dont disagree with any of that. If I came off has harsh, my bad. Talking about VMA get my bloodpressure moving. haha.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what would be a game changer? If they were to change precise so that it increases your crit damage rather than your crit chance.

Food for thought.

I like where your heads at, bud.

Sorry, I've gotten my traits mixed up, Sharpened is the one that some people run in PvP. I was underthe impression that Precise was better for PvE but apparently I'm mistaken.

For a long time, Precise was better in PVE if you had a proper warhorn rotation (i.e. they are being cast about every 10-15 seconds). Once they changed sharpened to a flat amount of penetration, this went out the window.

On paper, you can create scenarios (i.e. stacking a ton of debuffs) where a boss will essentially have zero armor. In that hypothetical scenario, precise or even nirn would outperform sharpened because the penetration is wasted at 0 armor. What I am suggesting, is that this is not realistic for even the best raid groups 100% of the time. The best DPS in the best raids still go sharpened if they can because they simply pull more total DPS throughout a 6-8 minute fight.

As I have said before, I hung up my precise VMA Inferno staff for a sharpened crafted set, and I saw a noticeable increase. I will not say that our raid is perfect (far from it), but we are competitive (VMOL speedruns) and do a solid job with debuffs. None of our DPS run precise if they can help it as far as I know. Same holds true for some of the big name guilds as well as far as I know.

Theorycrafters might sit here and tell you that the math suggests Precise > sharpened in a perfect raid, and actual raiders will respond by saying the perfect raid is a myth.

Jaronking wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Back to topic... of the eternal vMA grind...

Another solution, and isn't this also part of the problem (indirectly) : The Sharpened trait.

Wouldn't it be such a problem (the fetching of Maelstrom Sharpened gear) if sharpened wasn't this OP, or if other traits such as Nirnhoned and Precise were good.

I'm curious about hearing your opinion on this:
@Strider_Roshin, @Oreyn_Bearclaw, @Recremen, @Jaronking

Sharpened isn't OP, I feel, it's just tuned for a certain, very popular playstyle. Crit is great in PvE, but not strictly as important in PvP, depending on what kinds of fights you're trying to get into. And obviously it's also going to depend on the rest of your gear makeup, the stats you've chosen to focus, etc. Sharpened just lets you focus crit, which is useful for a variety of playstyles and a little less niche than the other two traits.

@Recremen This is where we disagree (it's okay, we can still be friends). Sharpened is 100% OP right now. We have 9 traits on a weapons, and one of them is the best damage at EVERYTHING. There is no balance whatsoever. It used to be that precise was a little better in a proper raid, which i really liked btw, but its just not true anymore. My precise Inferno staff is collecting dust because my crafted staff in sharpened is better. It pulls more DPS, and my testing ground is real life trials with proper buffs.

On paper, you can create scenarios that suggest precise is better with a list of debuffs a half a page long, but in reality, you cant keep these up enough for precise to win out in an 8 minute fight. Sharpened is ALWAYS better if your goal is to do damage.

@sluice You are not wrong. Whether you buff Nirn and Precise or nerf Sharpened, it really doesnt matter. This would certainly be less of an issue if there was some meaningful choices amoung traits. That being said, it would still be an issue. We have this ludicrous trait system that is ruining the game. We need a way to change traits. I am not saying you should be able to do it instantly and without effort, but make it possible. A rare mat, an expensive vendor, a 20 day research time, whatever, just do something to make it possible with a fair amount of resources/time.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Items that require such skill to get shouldn't have such horrible RNG. Can we get a token system already?

We desperately need a token system. One of the reasons I stopped grinding for gear was because of the RNG nightmare. Grinding for gear IS NOT FUN. Getting the gear you deserve and heading straight to Cyrodiil IS FUN.

RNG is a time sink is ESO, purposely. If you got your gear easy'ish, headed to PvP, you would probably to bored in a short amount of time, as Cyro is the same boring campaign since 2 years. Fighting players is fun, doing the same rinse and repeat to castles tends to bore me anyway.

RNG is purely here to sink your time. If you got your Maelstorms, how many would buy Wrothgar to have, how many would keep subbing after they got the content?, fewer than now.

ESO by design will constantly buff these DLC areas to keep people sub or keep people interested. By interested i mean, having to play Maelstorm to get items for an end game build, or vDSA. If you added the time you spent to make a build and how much time you spent playing said build i believe time spent making is more, which in my eyes, it shouldn't be.

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Oh I'm not doubting its superiority in PvE, I was talking strictly about Precise's potential in PvP. While I don't personally run into this situation, folks allegedly are able to do more with Precise than Sharpened in a variety of PvP scenarios, particularly due to the amount of Impenetrable that some opposing groups wear.

I am missing something. Why do people run precise in PVP? Other than a ganker build to one-shot lowbies, its hard to imagine it being viable. I would rather run defending than precise in PVE. You said it yourself, people stack impen, making crit not particularly desirable. I could see Nirn being a thing in PVP I suppose.

KingMagaw wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@KingMagaw I understand where you are coming from, and of course they do this to artificially extend content. What myself and others are suggesting is that there are better ways to do this. A token system would work, maybe better. If you told me tomorrow that 50 runs would get me a sharp dagger, I would run it at least 150 more times as there are 3 weapons I need. As it stand right now, I will probably run it once most weeks to get on the boards, but no way I am running it that many times.

Token Systems are not about instant gratification. They are about ensuring that with enough effort, you eventually get what you are after.

As for your statements about that both PVP and the arena are boring, well, maybe you are playing the wrong game? Not trying to be an ass or anything, but most of us want to spend 95% of our time in a desired end game content. For me, it's trials. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each. I also work 50 hours a week. I dont have a lot of other time. I usually get to spend 4-5 hours on Saturday to do other things in game like run dungeons or whatever. Feeling like I have to run VMA every chance I get for a random chance to bump my DPS by 5% is extremely frustrating. It doesnt make me want to play more, it makes me contemplate leaving the game that I have played for nearly 2.5 years.

Since i don't work for Z0$, my interest will always lay with the player base. I totally agree with a token system and have played many games where i have enjoyed this mechanic. My view analysis was from the company perspective and to either raise or limit profits and i think we all know in business it is about raising profits. But smart business is about raising profits while maintaining and supporting solid client relationships - Z0$ does not do this, in forum posts or ESO live episodes, which are cringe worthy for me to watch or in support tickets by spamming me with auto responses for multiple replies i make. I dont make tickets anymore, pointless.

My point about boredom was this. Playing any content over and over again is repetitive and boring. I may get bored after 10 turns, you 20, someone else 100, but i think that fact remains. Cyro hasn't really changed since release, seeing the same terrain, same layouts, same strategies being applied, night after night, it has wore on me. PvP is the only liquid game play where fights can change from one to the other and it has been sorely neglected.

I dont disagree with any of that. If I came off has harsh, my bad. Talking about VMA get my bloodpressure moving. haha.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what would be a game changer? If they were to change precise so that it increases your crit damage rather than your crit chance.

Food for thought.

I like where your heads at, bud.

Sorry, I've gotten my traits mixed up, Sharpened is the one that some people run in PvP. I was underthe impression that Precise was better for PvE but apparently I'm mistaken.

Most people run or try to run sharpened in PVP.Not a lot of people run precise because their no point to.Your crit means nothing unless on a back bar for healing.Precise is second for PVE for DW one Sharpened one precise is good.

I think 2 sharpened is better. I currently run double Axe (one sharp one precise), because all my daggers are defending or charged. I recently tried going Sharp Axe and defending dagger (my crit actually goes up, but I lose the second bleed), and it's so close I honestly cant tell. If I go Precise Axe and Defending dagger, its a huge decrease.

I think there are more options to debuff for stamina than magic, so again, you might be able to get to a point where Sharp Axe +Precise Dagger out performs, Sharp Axe + Sharp Dagger, but I have not actually been in that raid. Haha.

Well I won't be able to prove that my MA RNG is trash and I rally do trials still working on my way to vet trials.So I'll have to take your word on it.

Iduyenn · August 2016

How about a similar system like the future daily key loot chests?

Just let spawn multiple chests for multiple weapon setups.