Let's talk about guild stores

ThatAlaskanDude · August 2016

[Scroll to the bottom for a TL;DR]

So player made guilds are very unique and really beneficial when you want to make some gold. You can sell items in your guild store and players who desire a particular item could buy yours. The buyer gets the item there looking for and the seller gets the gold to do however they please with.

When you sell an item though you must pay a small fee to do so. When you set the desired price, 8% of it is taken from the price you set. 1% of the fee is the cost to list the item in the guild store and the 7% (if you are successful at selling the item) goes to your guild bank. This would give your guild a steady income of gold which could be used to preserve your stall. At least that would be the case.

Nowadays if you want to preserve your guilds stall a guild leader would most likely ask or demand weekly tax from their guild mates. The weekly price could range between 1k gold to 5k gold (maybe more) and if a guild mate didn't meet the weekly quota or refused to pay they would have their trade privileges removed or they would be removed from their guild.

Also as obvious as it is a guild is run by a guild leader. They choose how they can set guild roles and potentially have control over a players. While a guild leader could be fair and trustworthy there are also guild leaders that can be unruly and not so trustworthy. They can abuse their own guild mates and could ruin the player experience by the hundreds. This alone can keep them away from the game.

I feel the current system of guild stores and how it functions is very risky. You can be a part of a trading guild to sell your items but there is a likely chance you must pay a weekly fee to your guild. And there is no guarantee that the guild leader would allow you trade even if you did pay (I unfortunately know how that feels).

You could be paying for nothing while the guild leader sits on millions of gold donated by his guild mates, which could be taken out from the guild bank to keep for themselves. I'm not telling you anything we don't already know but this guild trade should be looked at and change.

[TL;DR]
Guild stores and trading guilds could ruin a players experience. Most trading guilds require their guild mates to make weekly gold contributions that may or may not be used to preserve a stall. This guild store system desperately needs to be looked at and changed.

FortheloveofKrist · August 2016

Not happening. The majority of players like the guild store system.

No need for another thread about it.

nine9six · August 2016

Guild Stores suck.

susmitds · August 2016

Guilds have no reason to stop you from trading. I am part of 3 trading guilds and never pay a single piece of gold, unless I feel like it.

Paneross · August 2016

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Not happening. The majority of players like the guild store system.

No need for another thread about it.

If you could poll the entire population and not just the forums, I gurantee you most people do not like it.

Danksta · August 2016

You do realize there are people with millions and millions of gold that could easily corner a certain market if we switched to an auction house, which is what I'm guessing you'd prefer, right?

NewBlacksmurf · August 2016

This is real life....everyone who wants to sale stuff doesn't have one central way of doing so.

There are a few options hat make sense and then there are better options by item.
This is similar
5 guild options to sale through whether it's all internal or internal and via a trader.

Problems with people that aren't a system problem:

1. People aren't aware of the market or price of items (global auction houses caused this and just not ever running a market of things)
2. Ppl join (trade guilds )where there are hundreds of ppl whose main intent is only to bid on a trader but where little to no effort is spent in obtaining marketable items that people want for a buyers market. If everyone wants to sale whose buying...
3. Too much focus is placed on traders. If you just want to sale stuff, stand in a zone chat and COd sale
4. Traders aren't the problem it's that anyone who wants something can get it or make (the market isn't large)
5. Auction house wouldn't resolve anything (see #4 and #1)

The reality is this....if people would focus on starting and organizing and building a real guild.
Not a PvP guild or a crafting guild, not a PvE guild or a this or that niche guild. If people would build a strong group of 400-500 weekly active players who all do different things who collectively list items to the growth of the guild, then you'd find yourself not ever going to traders at all and not trying to collect dues.

See the game is set up as a really open sandbox....with very few limitations and even more limitations will be removed in 60 days.

Suggestion:

50-100 ppl who PvE solo
50-100 ppl who run dungeons and trials
50-100 ppl who PvP
50-100 ppl who craft
50-100 ppl who do a mix of this and that
5 individuals who would be an officer in charge of 50-100 per each focus group above.

Have each group use chat 1-5 accordingly.

I'd suggest if you have trader concerns to work with an existing guild or start your own with this in mind

Rayya_Blackheart · August 2016

While I understand the OP, the guilds who are just running to make money for the guild leader, not that I've ever seen or heard of one, aren't the successful trade guilds.

Bouldercleave · August 2016

Actually the only thing that I would love is an add-on or something that I could do a better item search. I don't mind travelling to a guild kiosk, but to wander blindly looking for items that I need does get a tad frustrating.

ThePaleItalian · August 2016

See I have a few great trading guilds, which I donate too, they have a million dollar give away, which a friend of mine won, and weekly 50/50 drawings.

The funny thing is, you can go into the bank and look at logs and see who takes money out and in. The most I ever saw 1 of the 2 guild leaders take out was like 500K, and that is usually for a trader. I don't get the hate. Maybe people just think guild leaders are terrible people and thieves. But I personally have never run into an issue with people like that in my guilds.

Join a guild but research it. If they demand you to donate and you don't want too, then don't.

I am sitting on 500K gold, I throw about 10-20K a month in my main trading guild. I sell a ton of stuff and its easy. Honestly, its not very hard to make a lot of money in this game. It does't even take endless grinding. Just sell purples, set pieces. Don't even try to get top dollar, price it to sell. Trust me people buy everything.

I sold 200 Grand soul gems for 36K gold. I am still sitting on 600 more. There is money people. Just go get it.

silvereyes · August 2016

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Actually the only thing that I would love is an add-on or something that I could do a better item search. I don't mind travelling to a guild kiosk, but to wander blindly looking for items that I need does get a tad frustrating.

Awesome Guild Store. It will change your life.

LegacyDM · August 2016

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

See I have a few great trading guilds, which I donate too, they have a million dollar give away, which a friend of mine won, and weekly 50/50 drawings.

The funny thing is, you can go into the bank and look at logs and see who takes money out and in. The most I ever saw 1 of the 2 guild leaders take out was like 500K, and that is usually for a trader. I don't get the hate. Maybe people just think guild leaders are terrible people and thieves. But I personally have never run into an issue with people like that in my guilds.

Join a guild but research it. If they demand you to donate and you don't want too, then don't.

I am sitting on 500K gold, I throw about 10-20K a month in my main trading guild. I sell a ton of stuff and its easy. Honestly, its not very hard to make a lot of money in this game. It does't even take endless grinding. Just sell purples, set pieces. Don't even try to get top dollar, price it to sell. Trust me people buy everything.

I sold 200 Grand soul gems for 36K gold. I am still sitting on 600 more. There is money people. Just go get it.

How about the guild traders in rawlinka that are sitting on 230mill st any given time. If guild leaders wanted to they could walk away with a golden parachute...

silvereyes · August 2016

ThatAlaskanDude wrote: »

[TL;DR]
Guild stores and trading guilds could ruin a players experience. Most trading guilds require their guild mates to make weekly gold contributions that may or may not be used to preserve a stall. This guild store system desperately needs to be looked at and changed.

There is an active brainstorm going on over at the following post as to how to completely remove the blind bidding system from the game that is driving up kiosk prices (and by extension, making more fund raisers necessary):
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/287119/proposed-guild-trader-changes/p1

The OP is pretty wordy, so you might need to break it down to understand in full, but the general idea is to have way more traders available, and fixed bid pricing. There's also a passing nod to a "public option" PUG trader in every city that I mention in that thread, although that's something that could probably use a separate thread to delve into.

There is also an old, but still active thread about general things people would like to see changed about guilds.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list/p1

LegacyDM · August 2016

Look I get the devs wanted to mimick real life and a capitalistic free market system. however, what they've done is cave to a system that favors Wall Street elites. Guilds sitting on 230mill...sheesh...and if that's absolutely necessary to be competitive in the bidding process than zos needs to deflate, so smaller guilds can be competitive and not held hostage to the same monopolies ruling rawlinka.

FortheloveofKrist · August 2016

Still not happening.

Wait...uh....

Nope. Not happening.

Milvan · August 2016

Guild vendor is actually a very nice feature and gives people a reason to guild up other than pve and pvp stuff.

JarlUlfric · August 2016

ThatAlaskanDude wrote: »

So player made guilds are very unique and really beneficial when you want to make some gold. You can sell items in your guild store and players who desire a particular item could buy yours. The buyer gets the item there looking for and the seller gets the gold to do however they please with.

When you sell an item though you must pay a small fee to do so. When you set the desired price, 8% of it is taken from the price you set. 1% of the fee is the cost to list the item in the guild store and the 7% (if you are successful at selling the item) goes to your guild bank. This would give your guild a steady income of gold which could be used to preserve your stall. At least that would be the case.

First off, only 3.5% of the 7% goes towards the guild bank, the other 3.5% goes into the void never to be seen again. They changed this sometime around July-August of 2015 IIRC.

ThatAlaskanDude wrote: »

...Nowadays if you want to preserve your guilds stall a guild leader would most likely ask or demand weekly tax from their guild mates. The weekly price could range between 1k gold to 5k gold (maybe more) and if a guild mate didn't meet the weekly quota or refused to pay they would have their trade privileges removed or they would be removed from their guild.

Guild Traders aren't cheap, rarely do the taxes that you rake in (most guilds it's only ~30% of the cost of the trader) actually cover for the entire amount. Guilds are basically forced to ask members to contribute towards guild stability. That is not a problem, we provide this service for you, you should pay your fair share.

ThatAlaskanDude wrote: »

Also as obvious as it is a guild is run by a guild leader. They choose how they can set guild roles and potentially have control over a players. While a guild leader could be fair and trustworthy there are also guild leaders that can be unruly and not so trustworthy. They can abuse their own guild mates and could ruin the player experience by the hundreds. This alone can keep them away from the game.

Guilds that are run by bad GM's rarely survive for a long time. Also if a GM is bad at their job members can just quit.

ThatAlaskanDude wrote: »

I feel the current system of guild stores and how it functions is very risky. You can be a part of a trading guild to sell your items but there is a likely chance you must pay a weekly fee to your guild. And there is no guarantee that the guild leader would allow you trade even if you did pay (I unfortunately know how that feels).

What the hell are you talking about here? Do the research before you join a guild, that way you aren't in a guild that you don't belong in. Also I highly doubt there are guilds where you pay taxes and you are forbidden from trading. That's literally the most stupid thing I've heard on this forum.

ThatAlaskanDude wrote: »

You could be paying for nothing while the guild leader sits on millions of gold donated by his guild mates, which could be taken out from the guild bank to keep for themselves. I'm not telling you anything we don't already know but this guild trade should be looked at and change.
[TL;DR]
Guild stores and trading guilds could ruin a players experience. Most trading guilds require their guild mates to make weekly gold contributions that may or may not be used to preserve a stall. This guild store system desperately needs to be looked at and changed.

Once again, Bad GM's don't exist for long, and at least in my experiences in this game, most of the GM's that I've come across have refused to even touch guild gold for anything remotely personal. Even if it was a majority of GM's I know have spent MILLIONS of their own gold on the guild, and if they're in that scenario, I think it might be warranted.

I also know several other GM's who spend 30,40,50 even 60 hours a week on managing their guild. For some it's a full-time job. So to cast this sort of doubt that Trade Guild GM's are greedy is really unfair.

I think you might have had a few bad experiences and you're casting every trade guild in a bad light.

A few poor experiences do not speak for the entire community. I suggest you go out and do some research and find a guild that will treat you fairly.

EllieBlue · August 2016

Ditto to Jarl Ulfric. Everything he said.

Beardimus · August 2016

Bottom line is, you are in some bad Guilds man. I'm in three, all have regular trading stalls, and allow bank access to members that have been active for a while. / are trusted. donation is optional. Check the sub forum and find another.

In real life what group would you join and pay cash too off the bat? You wouldn't. Join a free trader OR male your own guild if it really can't find one on your platform fella.

System works well right now, the mechanism is not the issue, you have just had hierachy / people issues

Beardimus · August 2016

And +1 to @JarlUlfric

Vangy · August 2016

As far as I know, most of my guild leaders sell themselves desperately trying to rally up enough gold to ensure their members have a guild trader spot in the popular places.... Like they literally sell things like mat farming time for gold. These poor guys are doing everything in their power to keep their guild running and you are casting everyone in the same bad light. Sure, there might be 1 or 2 bad people around, but most of the successful trading guilds have amazingly nice and dedicated leaders....

1. Guild stall bids are absurdly high. (esp the ones in rawlkha for example).
2. Guild leads often have to pump in money from their own pocket.
3. It stands to reason that if you want to be in one of those guilds who have traders in good locations, you should pull your own weight. Even traders in capital cities and high traffic areas only request you meet around 10-15k in sales per week. That is an absurdly easy amount to meet. No one demands you outright pay gold to guild unless you fail to meet the quota, you can make up for it with an outright donation.w

I kinda like the current system. Its easy to get invited to one of these major guilds but it requires a little bit of effort to stay in. Its well worth the effort and you should give it a shot before you jump the gun an say that these leaders are all dishonest. Get into one or 2 of them. I guarantee you will change your song in a few weeks time when you see how much effort is put into maintaining a trade guild....

forgottengd · August 2016

Vangy wrote: »

1. Guild stall bids are absurdly high. (esp the ones in rawlkha for example).
2. Guild leads often have to pump in money from their own pocket.
3. It stands to reason that if you want to be in one of those guilds who have traders in good locations, you should pull your own weight. Even traders in capital cities and high traffic areas only request you meet around 10-15k in sales per week. That is an absurdly easy amount to meet. No one demands you outright pay gold to guild unless you fail to meet the quota, you can make up for it with an outright donation.w

It's absolutely true. GM of PerfectHeroesTrade (PC EU) here. Nobody thinks how much time and money gms put into guild to be competitive. People think 25k sales per week is too much, and there is too much fee, this is not true.
Nobody thinks about my donations into guild (it's 500k 2 weeks ago only). This is amazing behavior.

Avenias · August 2016

Milvan wrote: »

Guild vendor is actually a very nice feature and gives people a reason to guild up other than pve and pvp stuff.

Thats the worst reason to find a guild. Infact its the most regressive reason to join a guild. So basically you are objecting a far superior system that has been accepted by the overwhelming majority of gamers around the world for all popular mmorpgs, and use guild invite as a reason to support a regressive system. Its a joke.

snakester320 · August 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Guilds have no reason to stop you from trading. I am part of 3 trading guilds and never pay a single piece of gold, unless I feel like it.

so that means they cant kick you for not paying??? hmmm .. i support a central AH and keep spamming these threads ill keep supporting till the bad system gets fixed for the better!!!

Suter1972 · August 2016

As a new player and a new member of guild with a great location for their guild store I actually don’t mind if the guild leader makes money from my sales. Im so low level that im selling small bits of cr*p that earn me a few hundred or less each time. It’s a big deal to me but its small change in the big scheme of things.

I think paying pocket change to be able to earn 80% of the goods value is fair. Ive read the guild rules for mine and it’s a hefty fee each week but so far Ive not been asked to pay or kicked out. If I did, I’d simply find a new guild that is more tolerate of new players, after all that guy sat on piles of gold was a new player once, scrimping around for 50g here and there. Who knows how big ‘my pile’ will be in a while, I could be another millionaire for all I know.

Ggrab · August 2016

I understand they don't want an AU system but the guild store could still use an upgrade for once the UI system of it is horrible (on console atleast)
And the whole bidding system for a spot is also a horrible system and not fair to the new players/new guild (it basically the rich get richer)

Again don't have to add AU system just rework the guild store system into something better

Asardes · August 2016

I've been a member of 5 guilds for a long time. 2 of them are top trading guilds in EU PC, EP and AD respectively. I've had no trouble and they haven't "ruined" anything for me. In fact I make on average about 10K a day just selling surplus materials, tempers, trait and style stones, runes, recipes and motifs that I already know as well as gear that I don't use. I have MM and set the price 1-2% lower than the average and have no problem selling dozens of items a day.

notimetocare · August 2016

Avenias wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Guild vendor is actually a very nice feature and gives people a reason to guild up other than pve and pvp stuff.

Thats the worst reason to find a guild. Infact its the most regressive reason to join a guild. So basically you are objecting a far superior system that has been accepted by the overwhelming majority of gamers around the world for all popular mmorpgs, and use guild invite as a reason to support a regressive system. Its a joke.

I'd actually disagree with that since you have access to five Guild. Trading guilds and crafting Guild are really part of the world that TES is.

xilfxlegion · August 2016

ThatAlaskanDude wrote: »

[Scroll to the bottom for a TL;DR]

So player made guilds are very unique and really beneficial when you want to make some gold. You can sell items in your guild store and players who desire a particular item could buy yours. The buyer gets the item there looking for and the seller gets the gold to do however they please with.

When you sell an item though you must pay a small fee to do so. When you set the desired price, 8% of it is taken from the price you set. 1% of the fee is the cost to list the item in the guild store and the 7% (if you are successful at selling the item) goes to your guild bank. This would give your guild a steady income of gold which could be used to preserve your stall. At least that would be the case.

Nowadays if you want to preserve your guilds stall a guild leader would most likely ask or demand weekly tax from their guild mates. The weekly price could range between 1k gold to 5k gold (maybe more) and if a guild mate didn't meet the weekly quota or refused to pay they would have their trade privileges removed or they would be removed from their guild.

Also as obvious as it is a guild is run by a guild leader. They choose how they can set guild roles and potentially have control over a players. While a guild leader could be fair and trustworthy there are also guild leaders that can be unruly and not so trustworthy. They can abuse their own guild mates and could ruin the player experience by the hundreds. This alone can keep them away from the game.

I feel the current system of guild stores and how it functions is very risky. You can be a part of a trading guild to sell your items but there is a likely chance you must pay a weekly fee to your guild. And there is no guarantee that the guild leader would allow you trade even if you did pay (I unfortunately know how that feels).

You could be paying for nothing while the guild leader sits on millions of gold donated by his guild mates, which could be taken out from the guild bank to keep for themselves. I'm not telling you anything we don't already know but this guild trade should be looked at and change.

[TL;DR]
Guild stores and trading guilds could ruin a players experience. Most trading guilds require their guild mates to make weekly gold contributions that may or may not be used to preserve a stall. This guild store system desperately needs to be looked at and changed.

then dont join a guild. problem solved. sit in area chat or type your items in area chat.

there are so many ways of making gold in this game and yet these stupid threads keep popping up.

xilfxlegion · August 2016

Paneross wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Not happening. The majority of players like the guild store system.

No need for another thread about it.

If you could poll the entire population and not just the forums, I gurantee you most people do not like it.

im sorry --- i dont recall you asking me in-game if i liked the guild system. it must be tiring asking every single person in the game their opinion.

you have absolutely no way of knowing what a majority of people like or dislike. your comment is invalid.

xilfxlegion · August 2016

Danksta wrote: »

You do realize there are people with millions and millions of gold that could easily corner a certain market if we switched to an auction house, which is what I'm guessing you'd prefer, right?

personally i think it is the people with millions and millions of gold that keep making these posts . what better way of actually manipulating the markets ?