I want to buy my craft bag outright!

NewBlacksmurf · August 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

There do need to be incentives to subscribe. Crafting bags are currently the largest one and are the main reason I keep my sub.

I completely disagree that a QoL improvement to the base game must only be accessible via a subscription.
There are a number of current incentives to subscribe but let's touch on what you and others are suggesting here.

If the main reason many are subscribing is for a crafting bag, would not it make better sense to sale the feature if there has to be real money tied to it outright In addition to if being offered with a sub.

See this is why I personally debate the mindsets that people must be enticed to keep subscribing. If the content has value and access to all added content is via a subscription then that alone meets the requirement. Content releases around every 90 days so if the content isn't valued enough for a subscription then that's a development issue.

A crafting bag, like a assistant banker or merchant is a very nice QoL feature that while 5k is a lot IMO, it's something I'd pay 2500-5k for.

If ZOS were to continue adding QoL features every 6 months as well as new content every 90 days, the two suffice as seperate real money decisions.

Now there are other discussions around ESO plus benefits that can be made but this one seeing how QoL things like motif, mounts, assistants and consumables do well in the crown store, and knowing everyone isn't going to sub or may sub here and there, the obvious long term decission is to offer it both as a sub and/or a crown purchase.

No reasons to take it off the sub but no reason not to charge for it outright either.

I will argue that if the Crafting bag ever stops being a subscription exclusive, it should be included in the base game rather than offered as a purchase, because that kind of QoL feature should be in the base game.

Alternatively, they could add more inventory and bank expansions both to the store and to the game via gold.

Personally, I like that the craft bags are an incentive to subscribe. I understand why you don't, but I think for every person like you, there are probably 3 who subscribed because of the bags, and that evens it out.

As for the subscription being worth it on its own because of the DLC access, I think it is when you start out, but I've subscribed since launch, with my crowns from the subscription, I have so far bought IC and Orsinium, any pets/costumes that I felt like buying and I still have 11,000 crowns left to buy the other DLCs whenever I get around to it. So without the crafting bags, I could stop subscribing tomorrow and still have the same access to the game I've had with a subscription, minus the crafting bag.

If they ever offer it as a crown store item, though, I will very likely just unsubscribe.

@AlnilamE
It's already in the base game tho.
ZOS just chose to lock it to a sub....this the whole issue I've had since PTS on this.

It's already a base game update but adding items requires a sub.

I hope you understood that I meant "available to all players whether they sub or not".

Weren't you just complaining about people being too literal in another thread I was reading? :-P

@AlnilamE

I didn't misinterpret you're meaning I was stating the fact per how ZOS lists this that its a base game patch feature in the literal sense.

I understand your intent as well but I'm being careful to use words that communicate exactly what I mean so there's no room for misinterpretation.

And No I didn't complain about people being too literal. Again....that's the whole problem of that conversation because no one wants to be held accountable for what they've previously answered a question lacking a time bound element to the discussion which as results leads to a PR nightmare.

I commented to communicate how people choose circumstancial and attach unwritten limits to time bound statements which often in context to that thread the OP and many others are saying they are wrong when evidence in context suggests otherwise.

So back on topic here....in context to what was written by ZOS, the feature is in fact a base game update where ZOS chose to make one part of the feature exclusive to a required subscription. You personally and I'm sure there are a number of others cite that your main reason of subscribing is for access to the crafting bag, however nowhere do any of you clarify why the next customer who also wants access shouldn't be able to buy it outright because you're both paying real money for it. It sounds like you're suggesting there's value in the sub that shouldn't be offered to non-subscribers but I'm careful to assume that the intent is a selfish mindset. And reading also suggests it's something else or other.

In context to what anyone who has subbed for this whether it be month to month or bundles of months, if you didn't subscribe prior and now do and if you did subscribe prior and continue to do so....neither offer any valid logic to why the feature is not for sale otherwise.

ESO plus would continue to be unlimited
Buying it outright would conceivably have some limits placed but no one is arguing that they'd have issue with this who doesn't subscribe for the bag. It's only those who are subscribing. If you're subbing for unlimited access, why do you care if others buy outright for limited access. That in no way impacts your nor does it devalue anything that exists.

So then the discussion becomes what it was in the past and not what ZOS is doing but why do those subscribers feel entitled that non-subscribers should not be able to access the feature?

ZOS hasn't said anywhere that they value subscribers more than non-subscribers who buy outright. In logic, ZOS actions are more towards those who buy outright as seen from the many crown offerings compared to the few subscriber benefits offered.

It seems apparent that ZOS is seeking real money overall and not by circumstance placing a higher value on either paying customer but they are penalizing both subscribers and non-subscribers in limited opportunities to buy outright which is the point of discussion for this and many other offerings to come.

AlnilamE · August 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@AlnilamE

So back on topic here....in context to what was written by ZOS, the feature is in fact a base game update where ZOS chose to make one part of the feature exclusive to a required subscription. You personally and I'm sure there are a number of others cite that your main reason of subscribing is for access to the crafting bag, however nowhere do any of you clarify why the next customer who also wants access shouldn't be able to buy it outright because you're both paying real money for it. It sounds like you're suggesting there's value in the sub that shouldn't be offered to non-subscribers but I'm careful to assume that the intent is a selfish mindset. And reading also suggests it's something else or other.

In context to what anyone who has subbed for this whether it be month to month or bundles of months, if you didn't subscribe prior and now do and if you did subscribe prior and continue to do so....neither offer any valid logic to why the feature is not for sale otherwise.

ESO plus would continue to be unlimited
Buying it outright would conceivably have some limits placed but no one is arguing that they'd have issue with this who doesn't subscribe for the bag. It's only those who are subscribing. If you're subbing for unlimited access, why do you care if others buy outright for limited access. That in no way impacts your nor does it devalue anything that exists.

So then the discussion becomes what it was in the past and not what ZOS is doing but why do those subscribers feel entitled that non-subscribers should not be able to access the feature?

ZOS hasn't said anywhere that they value subscribers more than non-subscribers who buy outright. In logic, ZOS actions are more towards those who buy outright as seen from the many crown offerings compared to the few subscriber benefits offered.

It seems apparent that ZOS is seeking real money overall and not by circumstance placing a higher value on either paying customer but they are penalizing both subscribers and non-subscribers in limited opportunities to buy outright which is the point of discussion for this and many other offerings to come.

I think it's a bit tricky and it really depends on the details. If ZOS offered more inventory space both in game and via the crown store, like they've done before, that would be fine. Say, for example increase character space to 240 and bank space to 300.

But rather than having the crafting bag itself (limited or otherwise) be purchasable as a separate item, it would be better if they just made it available for free to everyone.

I think if they made the crating bag a crown store item, people would be pissed because it's functionality that's not available in game. They would also just buy it outright and stop subbing. Unless it was a very steep amount, like 10,000 crowns or something.

I think the big thing about the crafting bag being a sub item is that it made subbing worth it for many people. Even those of us who have subbed for a long time were starting to feel a bit Meh about it because we already have all the traits researched, have max CP characters and enough crowns to buy all the DLC and then some. So the crafting bag was a "Heck Yes!" for subbing, particularly after trying it out.

Could ZOS have come up with something different instead? They could have, for sure. Like make the banker and the merchant available to subscribers (while still having them for sale on the crown store). But by the time they announced the craft bags were being released, the banker and the merchant were already out and many subscribers had already bought them, so that ship had sailed.

I think at the end of the day, if you can come up with something that makes people want to subscribe without making non-subscribers feel left out, I think that would be a brilliant solution. But as it stands now, I think the crafting bag is a good incentive. Because unless you are buying all the collector editions, buying the DLCs separately is actually cheaper than subbing so far.

And again, if it's not behind a sub anymore, it should just be put in the game for free for everyone, not put in the crown store.

NewBlacksmurf · August 2016

@AlnilamE

I strongly feel that for console at least ZOS should've from day

-not had any sub or ESO plus.
-should've had "season passes"
-kept the crown store
-kept seperate DLC prices BUT kept them truly seperate until purchased

This basic format affords them to then address features in base game patches differently as well as addressing customers feedback on patch update sizes, etc.

Doing so now offers more options for base game updates and DLC but honestly crafting bags and costume dyes should be accessible with ESO plus or with purchased DLC regardless of if any of this was done as mentioned above.

In the end, the sub or buying DLC should grant these features.

idk · August 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@AlnilamE

I strongly feel that for console at least ZOS should've from day

-not had any sub or ESO plus.
-should've had "season passes"
-kept the crown store
-kept seperate DLC prices BUT kept them truly seperate until purchased

This basic format affords them to then address features in base game patches differently as well as addressing customers feedback on patch update sizes, etc.

Doing so now offers more options for base game updates and DLC but honestly crafting bags and costume dyes should be accessible with ESO plus or with purchased DLC regardless of if any of this was done as mentioned above.

In the end, the sub or buying DLC should grant these features.

@NewBlacksmurf

Having two different revenue models for PC and console would not make sense and that would be the fiirst and probably only reason Zos needed to avoid season passes.

As I've explained to you previously, subcribers are a more regular revenue source. Additionally, some of those who don to subscribe never buy a DLC. May do not buy all of the DLCs. This makes the subscribed even more attractive to the business side of Zos.

As such, it was a great business decision that Zos made the crafting bag exclusive to ESO+. I guarantee that they loved the idea and guarantee we will not see this change. Zos has said as much.

QUEZ420 · August 2016

In all honesty if they priced it roughly 10k crowns I would definitely buy it, n I don't sub now that I'm on console. I subbed my whole yr on pc before the character console transfer so my stripped senche mount is a boss jus sayin lol.

NewBlacksmurf · August 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@AlnilamE

I strongly feel that for console at least ZOS should've from day

-not had any sub or ESO plus.
-should've had "season passes"
-kept the crown store
-kept seperate DLC prices BUT kept them truly seperate until purchased

This basic format affords them to then address features in base game patches differently as well as addressing customers feedback on patch update sizes, etc.

Doing so now offers more options for base game updates and DLC but honestly crafting bags and costume dyes should be accessible with ESO plus or with purchased DLC regardless of if any of this was done as mentioned above.

In the end, the sub or buying DLC should grant these features.

@NewBlacksmurf

Having two different revenue models for PC and console would not make sense and that would be the fiirst and probably only reason Zos needed to avoid season passes.

As I've explained to you previously, subcribers are a more regular revenue source. Additionally, some of those who don to subscribe never buy a DLC. May do not buy all of the DLCs. This makes the subscribed even more attractive to the business side of Zos.

As such, it was a great business decision that Zos made the crafting bag exclusive to ESO+. I guarantee that they loved the idea and guarantee we will not see this change. Zos has said as much.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

The Xbox one version still differs so the logic is due to the reality
PC and PS4 have the same options but not Xbox one.

As far as the crafting bag, I disagree that it was a great business decission at all this the many threads.
Also please don't make guarantee comments for things which you have absolutely no involvement in.

Everyone whose made statements about ZOS and how they decide to do one thing and later change has been proven wrong again and again.

idk · August 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@AlnilamE

I strongly feel that for console at least ZOS should've from day

-not had any sub or ESO plus.
-should've had "season passes"
-kept the crown store
-kept seperate DLC prices BUT kept them truly seperate until purchased

This basic format affords them to then address features in base game patches differently as well as addressing customers feedback on patch update sizes, etc.

Doing so now offers more options for base game updates and DLC but honestly crafting bags and costume dyes should be accessible with ESO plus or with purchased DLC regardless of if any of this was done as mentioned above.

In the end, the sub or buying DLC should grant these features.

@NewBlacksmurf

Having two different revenue models for PC and console would not make sense and that would be the fiirst and probably only reason Zos needed to avoid season passes.

As I've explained to you previously, subcribers are a more regular revenue source. Additionally, some of those who don to subscribe never buy a DLC. May do not buy all of the DLCs. This makes the subscribed even more attractive to the business side of Zos.

As such, it was a great business decision that Zos made the crafting bag exclusive to ESO+. I guarantee that they loved the idea and guarantee we will not see this change. Zos has said as much.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

The Xbox one version still differs so the logic is due to the reality
PC and PS4 have the same options but not Xbox one.

As far as the crafting bag, I disagree that it was a great business decission at all this the many threads.
Also please don't make guarantee comments for things which you have absolutely no involvement in.

Everyone whose made statements about ZOS and how they decide to do one thing and later change has been proven wrong again and again.

@NewBlacksmurf

I guarantee Zos has already stated the crafting bags will remain exclusive to a ESO+. They stated it loud and clear.

I also guarantee anything that successfully encourages subscription is good for the business and I know personally that players have returned to subscribing as a direct result of the crafting bag being added to ESO+.

It's the only reason for many of us to subscribe. So, you may have an oppinion that you do not like the business decision, but that does not change that is is and was a good business decision by Zos.

NewBlacksmurf · August 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@AlnilamE

I strongly feel that for console at least ZOS should've from day

-not had any sub or ESO plus.
-should've had "season passes"
-kept the crown store
-kept seperate DLC prices BUT kept them truly seperate until purchased

This basic format affords them to then address features in base game patches differently as well as addressing customers feedback on patch update sizes, etc.

Doing so now offers more options for base game updates and DLC but honestly crafting bags and costume dyes should be accessible with ESO plus or with purchased DLC regardless of if any of this was done as mentioned above.

In the end, the sub or buying DLC should grant these features.

@NewBlacksmurf

Having two different revenue models for PC and console would not make sense and that would be the fiirst and probably only reason Zos needed to avoid season passes.

As I've explained to you previously, subcribers are a more regular revenue source. Additionally, some of those who don to subscribe never buy a DLC. May do not buy all of the DLCs. This makes the subscribed even more attractive to the business side of Zos.

As such, it was a great business decision that Zos made the crafting bag exclusive to ESO+. I guarantee that they loved the idea and guarantee we will not see this change. Zos has said as much.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

The Xbox one version still differs so the logic is due to the reality
PC and PS4 have the same options but not Xbox one.

As far as the crafting bag, I disagree that it was a great business decission at all this the many threads.
Also please don't make guarantee comments for things which you have absolutely no involvement in.

Everyone whose made statements about ZOS and how they decide to do one thing and later change has been proven wrong again and again.

@NewBlacksmurf

I guarantee Zos has already stated the crafting bags will remain exclusive to a ESO+. They stated it loud and clear.

I also guarantee anything that successfully encourages subscription is good for the business and I know personally that players have returned to subscribing as a direct result of the crafting bag being added to ESO+.

It's the only reason for many of us to subscribe. So, you may have an oppinion that you do not like the business decision, but that does not change that is is and was a good business decision by Zos.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

That's 100% opinionated and completely assumed and unfounded by you.

If it was a good business decision, then you wouldn't see so many anti-threads for it back when it was announced as well as new threads even today.

While the game is good, ZOS has yet to make any "good" business decisions after release.
Everything they do regarding real
Money business decisions has been met with mixed anti-threads across the net.

While everyone isn't going to be happy with everything is often thrown around, it's a video game....so there are very simple real money opportunities but this company always finds a much more abrasive way of doing things.

In your personal opinion, do you really believe that having this unlimited with ESO plus or limited via some purchase whether it's crowns or DLC based is not a better decission?