One Tamriel - a clean slate for open-world balancing

KenaPKK · August 2016

This is a fine line which ZOS must walk.

TG and DB delve bosses were embarrassing. Orsinium was where it's at. Everywhere should be like that.

BlackEar · August 2016

People are whining so much in this thread and throwing strawmen. Get over yourself.OP have some great points worth discussing whether you agree or not.

Also thank you for the video it was food for thought.
Remember your version of fun is not the same as someone else's.

dalodir · August 2016

Please increase difficulty. I didnt bother going back to the world to do the other alliances areas because it was so easy it made it boring. I dont find steamrolling through the content fun.

Dungeons are almost there. Although veteran could do with a tweak to make harder again.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

I dont consider myself Casual. Yet I would rather the difficulty not be increased.

And the reason for that is simply put: I do not equate frustration with fun.

It seems to be the new hotness for people to demand games be difficult after the mainstream success of darksouls, and people seem to want this type of difficulty to be absolutely *** everywhere. The sort of 'hit a wall then pass over it' kind of gameplay. What people dont seem to realize is the reason I play MMO's isn't for insane *** difficulty, it's for fun. And plenty of other people do too. It's nice to unplug and do something mindless for a while after work, I dont wanna be screaming at my monitor day in and day out or I will break down from stress. I do vet pledges day after day because I find the current dungeon difficulty fun. And the second that changes I'm going to leave. Thus is cause and effect.

As for One Tamriel Worldbosses, aside from making them giant meatsacks of health and damage you cannot make these guys tougher. Simply put, things like Syvarra, King Chief, Mad Ogre, are all -designed- with massive player mobs in mind. The old worldbosses are not. It's not a difficulty issue, it's a design one. And unless the design team dedicates hours to giving these dungeons mechanics there just isn't alot they can do without commiting the design fallacy of "MOAR NUMBERZ"

Edit: There's also the very real possibility that increasing worldboss and public dungeon difficulty will likely just reduce the demand for them drastically like what happened to Craglorn. Like it or not, outside of dungeons and trials and PVP, this game is pretty much a single player experience. And people like it that way. They tried forcing people to group up for Vet zones, Public dungeons....didn't work then, sure as *** not gonna work now.

TDLR. One. Y'got veteran trials which now drop gold items, and are by far the most challenging PVE content in the game. If that's not enough for you, consider whether or not the problem dont lie with you.

Two. In order for the bosses to not be meatsacks they need time to make them interesting mechanically, and the time isn't on the design teams side.

dalodir · August 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

schnooty wrote: »

I think so, too. I am not certain whether the bosses are easier, I am better, or Champion Points have really tipped the balance, but I don't fear the bosses like I used to. My magicka sorc was able to do all of the solo-able content in Lost City of the Na-Totambu at level 35. Now, I realize that this is not a world boss, but aren't these dungeons supposed to be HARD?

Later, I went into Razak's Wheel to get the skyshard, this time below level. I got the skyshard but the dungeon was so easy I decided to go back out and grab one of the quests. I ended up killing Major Carina and Spymaster Geta (twice), and I solo'ed Mzanchndalft because I got too close. I had never seen that flesh atronach before, so I accidentally triggered that one inspecting the body and had to kill it, and lady who was hiding there. I got the group achievement for that, but I am not sure if anyone else helped me. There was another person there in the room.

Bottom line is that, at least for a CP360 dual pet magicka sorc that just hit Level 40, this game is pretty easy. I am in Coldharbour now, five levels BELOW the monsters I am killing. It's so easy.

I really think the CP gives a huge boost to new toons. I am only 400 CP. But putting all those points into a fresh lvl 1 toon pretty has you 1 or 2 shotting everything. Which I get and understand and its nice to have everything account based like that. I would hate to grind for max CP on all my guys.

But I saw some hope in the new DLC world bosses. Its nice to run into group waiting for more people to take it down.Or seeing the poor soul who runs into the fight for the first time and just gets blasted and then the "Wanna join a group" pops up.

I do not want the game to be very challenging, but I would like to see a little more difficulty on somethings. I hated harvesters the first time I fought them, died so many times, now they are a pushover. Which is nice to feel that way when your character is maxed, I just don't want it my entire play through.

And this is why CP is a really bad idea. Better to just add more levels and higher level content. Also, if everything scales, why bother having levels at all?

But there is something you can do about CP... NOT USE THEM... novel idea I know, and it involves personal responsibility. For some people I know it's tough, I see it in gaming all the time... "please take xx out of the game because it is too tempting to use". If it's a CHOICE, then don't complain because you make the CHOICE to utilize something... and CP is completely all CHOICE. If you want something more difficult, then don't put points into CP.

As for people wanting more difficulty... this is how YOU want to play, this is what YOU enjoy... but this game has to appeal to an extremely large population, so just because you enjoy something doesn't mean the vast majority enjoy it too. As you've no doubt seen over time, ZOS has had to reduce difficulty a lot more frequently than increase it. Their data mining information shows how many people successfully complete something (world boss, dungeon boss, etc), and how many fail (die) trying... if they see too many people dying, they will adjust the difficulty lower; they have even said as much. Not everyone likes a 'challenge', not everyone wants to keep running head-on into wall until they smash through it, some people just want to play the game for FUN with their limited time.

I like to build a character so i can conquor the next challenge. Earn the rewards which is usually something which makes my char even better. And then take on the next challenge.

Removing champion points i have worked to get or purposefully crippling my char in other ways in order to get a challenge is not the right solution in my opinion.

Personally i find the fun stops very quickly if your not faced with some sort of challenge.

Dubhliam · August 2016

@Doctordarkspawn
It is not my intention to make everybody's experience a big frustrating mess.

Nor are people here saying they want that.
We just want ZOS to stop insulting our intelligence with what they think is a good difficulty level:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSzX09QX-g&list=FL_bWm72vV3wRreKLEsOqwtQ&index=1
This video cannot in any way be compared to Dark Souls.
If you are a "core" gamer, and you are content with this difficulty of world monsters, I simply have no comment.

Note that we are talking only about world difficulty.
Group dungeons and Trials will get no changes with One Tamriel, since they are already scaled. So those won't get any harder.

This thread is about open world difficulty (world monsters and bosses, delves and pub(l)ic dungeons).
Those will get a change with battle leveling, and ZOS should take a closer look to how they approach difficulty.

The goal is not to "satisfy elite needs".
The difficulty should be balanced to a degree where ALL players will have to have a basic understanding of game mechanics.
This will in turn make grouping for dungeons a much less painful experience, and the Group Tool that ZOS spent countless hours on might actually be worth using.

Elsonso · August 2016

.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I dont consider myself Casual. Yet I would rather the difficulty not be increased.

And the reason for that is simply put: I do not equate frustration with fun.

It seems to be the new hotness for people to demand games be difficult after the mainstream success of darksouls, and people seem to want this type of difficulty to be absolutely *** everywhere. The sort of 'hit a wall then pass over it' kind of gameplay. What people dont seem to realize is the reason I play MMO's isn't for insane *** difficulty, it's for fun. And plenty of other people do too. It's nice to unplug and do something mindless for a while after work, I dont wanna be screaming at my monitor day in and day out or I will break down from stress. I do vet pledges day after day because I find the current dungeon difficulty fun. And the second that changes I'm going to leave. Thus is cause and effect.

As for One Tamriel Worldbosses, aside from making them giant meatsacks of health and damage you cannot make these guys tougher. Simply put, things like Syvarra, King Chief, Mad Ogre, are all -designed- with massive player mobs in mind. The old worldbosses are not. It's not a difficulty issue, it's a design one. And unless the design team dedicates hours to giving these dungeons mechanics there just isn't alot they can do without commiting the design fallacy of "MOAR NUMBERZ"

Edit: There's also the very real possibility that increasing worldboss and public dungeon difficulty will likely just reduce the demand for them drastically like what happened to Craglorn. Like it or not, outside of dungeons and trials and PVP, this game is pretty much a single player experience. And people like it that way. They tried forcing people to group up for Vet zones, Public dungeons....didn't work then, sure as *** not gonna work now.

TDLR. One. Y'got veteran trials which now drop gold items, and are by far the most challenging PVE content in the game. If that's not enough for you, consider whether or not the problem dont lie with you.

Two. In order for the bosses to not be meatsacks they need time to make them interesting mechanically, and the time isn't on the design teams side.

Raising the difficulty so that it is frustrating is not fun. However, dropping the difficulty so that everything is easy is not fun, either. It is pretty cool to walk to world knowing nothing can kill you, smiting your foes every step of the way, but this is such a hollow feeling. When death becomes a surprise, not because the monster was too strong, but because the player messed up during combat, the game starts to lose some of the fun with combat.

Interesting mechanics for the bosses are only interesting if they live long enough to use them.

Lysette · August 2016

I am still of the opinion that the game needs some kind of difficulty slider in PvE, so that people can adjust the difficulty after their personal preferences - Elloa had some quite good ideas presented in her "5 wishes" video - the difficulty settings discussed from 2:50 on. Have a look, there is more to it then just difficulty slider, I think she has some very good ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW_-fzJT8Xg

Dubhliam · August 2016

You gotta love @Elloa

I always found her to be a valiant defender of the casual gameplay, and if even she says this about difficulty:

[...]Zenimax [...] nerf the content to a point where it's a little bit ridiculous.

you know that it has to be reworked.

There are many good points in that video, many of which reflect directly to One Tamriel.
Thank you for sharing this.

nimander99 · August 2016

I remember the first time I played through how challenging everything was, but guess what? The second time I played through (before changes) I face rolled PVE content... Because I knew the mechanics. Those of us who have been playing this game since its inception easily play through the PVE open world content because we know it so well.

As far as OT though, I'm very excited for it.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
It is not my intention to make everybody's experience a big frustrating mess.

Nor are people here saying they want that.
We just want ZOS to stop insulting our intelligence with what they think is a good difficulty level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSzX09QX-g&list=FL_bWm72vV3wRreKLEsOqwtQ&index=1
This video cannot in any way be compared to Dark Souls.
If you are a "core" gamer, and you are content with this difficulty of world monsters, I simply have no comment.

Note that we are talking only about world difficulty.
Group dungeons and Trials will get no changes with One Tamriel, since they are already scaled. So those won't get any harder.

This thread is about open world difficulty (world monsters and bosses, delves and pub(l)ic dungeons).
Those will get a change with battle leveling, and ZOS should take a closer look to how they approach difficulty.

The goal is not to "satisfy elite needs".
The difficulty should be balanced to a degree where ALL players will have to have a basic understanding of game mechanics.
This will in turn make grouping for dungeons a much less painful experience, and the Group Tool that ZOS spent countless hours on might actually be worth using.

If that's your stated goal, then quite frankly that's allready the case. I dont know of a person who can solo these bosses without a full understanding of incoming damage and how to mitigate it. Even DPS builds dont have that luxury unless the DPS they do is outstanding. And again, your not going to make these bosses mechanical teachers more than they allready are, unless you add mechanics or make them meat sacks.

What your arguing for is allready existant. I dont see what raising the difficulty of these bosses is going to do other than 'satisfy elite needs'. You said yourself "Isn't lost tomb supposed to be HARD?" And the simple answer is no, Dubby baby, it was not ment to be another *** dungeon. It was ment to be a step above questing, but a step below dungeons, and it -allready is-.

By the way. Let me give you a challenge, for your 'worldboss difficulty'.

Roll up a Nightblade on any faction, stamina, without vigor. Then go to Soulfire Plateau, near the start of the Auridon zone and see how well you do.

Some other notibles. Xal Nurz, the Atronoch in Stormhaven, I believe there's a storm atronoch in Reapers march, and plenty others who have multiple enemies in their worldbosses and are far more difficult than the standard fodder.

By the way. As for the 'so grouping for dungeons is less painfull'. I have seen vampire stage for healers with 10 K health try to do city of ash. I've seen DPS who I tell to get 20 K health laugh at me. Ignorance isn't going to be fixed by the design, trust me. Stupid is a stupid does and stupid is stubborn as hell.

PS. Please dont comment on the dark souls bit again if you cant comprehend why I made the comparison. I am not responsible for your reading comprehension.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I dont consider myself Casual. Yet I would rather the difficulty not be increased.

And the reason for that is simply put: I do not equate frustration with fun.

It seems to be the new hotness for people to demand games be difficult after the mainstream success of darksouls, and people seem to want this type of difficulty to be absolutely *** everywhere. The sort of 'hit a wall then pass over it' kind of gameplay. What people dont seem to realize is the reason I play MMO's isn't for insane *** difficulty, it's for fun. And plenty of other people do too. It's nice to unplug and do something mindless for a while after work, I dont wanna be screaming at my monitor day in and day out or I will break down from stress. I do vet pledges day after day because I find the current dungeon difficulty fun. And the second that changes I'm going to leave. Thus is cause and effect.

As for One Tamriel Worldbosses, aside from making them giant meatsacks of health and damage you cannot make these guys tougher. Simply put, things like Syvarra, King Chief, Mad Ogre, are all -designed- with massive player mobs in mind. The old worldbosses are not. It's not a difficulty issue, it's a design one. And unless the design team dedicates hours to giving these dungeons mechanics there just isn't alot they can do without commiting the design fallacy of "MOAR NUMBERZ"

Edit: There's also the very real possibility that increasing worldboss and public dungeon difficulty will likely just reduce the demand for them drastically like what happened to Craglorn. Like it or not, outside of dungeons and trials and PVP, this game is pretty much a single player experience. And people like it that way. They tried forcing people to group up for Vet zones, Public dungeons....didn't work then, sure as *** not gonna work now.

TDLR. One. Y'got veteran trials which now drop gold items, and are by far the most challenging PVE content in the game. If that's not enough for you, consider whether or not the problem dont lie with you.

Two. In order for the bosses to not be meatsacks they need time to make them interesting mechanically, and the time isn't on the design teams side.

Raising the difficulty so that it is frustrating is not fun. However, dropping the difficulty so that everything is easy is not fun, either. It is pretty cool to walk to world knowing nothing can kill you, smiting your foes every step of the way, but this is such a hollow feeling. When death becomes a surprise, not because the monster was too strong, but because the player messed up during combat, the game starts to lose some of the fun with combat.

Interesting mechanics for the bosses are only interesting if they live long enough to use them.

Not actually sure what your arguing here. If your arguing the player needs to learn basic mechanics in order to be alive for the big stuff, I present to you one of the best tutorial dungeons in the game: Blackheart Haven.

It has a boss that sprays fire like *** crazy, forcing you to be situationally aware, it has a boss that must be interrupted otherwise it can and will oneshot players over 20 K health, and the final boss itself is the definition of working under drastically different circumstances, and for the rest of the players, playing with one member of the group down. And keep in mind. I've seen these mechanics *** over players who are above CP160, and have been playing the game since Beta. Hell. I've fallen to them. It's a nice dungeon to run through when your feelin' rusty.

But if your arguing against the meatsack health, I cannot agree with you more.

Hallothiel · August 2016

As a 'hard casual' (see previous discussions) I would like there to still be challenges. I know my game mechanics & crafting but dont min/max & even tho I am CP360+ I can't solo some of the bosses / dungeons that others apparently can with ease (Have tried. And died. Seriously, how do people do it?! Maybe I'm just rubbish....).

But that is good as when/if I do manage to do something & it was done by skill & not just panicky button-mashing luck, then it's a fab feeling & one I don't want to lose.

Dubhliam · August 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
It is not my intention to make everybody's experience a big frustrating mess.

Nor are people here saying they want that.
We just want ZOS to stop insulting our intelligence with what they think is a good difficulty level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSzX09QX-g&list=FL_bWm72vV3wRreKLEsOqwtQ&index=1
This video cannot in any way be compared to Dark Souls.
If you are a "core" gamer, and you are content with this difficulty of world monsters, I simply have no comment.

Note that we are talking only about world difficulty.
Group dungeons and Trials will get no changes with One Tamriel, since they are already scaled. So those won't get any harder.

This thread is about open world difficulty (world monsters and bosses, delves and pub(l)ic dungeons).
Those will get a change with battle leveling, and ZOS should take a closer look to how they approach difficulty.

The goal is not to "satisfy elite needs".
The difficulty should be balanced to a degree where ALL players will have to have a basic understanding of game mechanics.
This will in turn make grouping for dungeons a much less painful experience, and the Group Tool that ZOS spent countless hours on might actually be worth using.

If that's your stated goal, then quite frankly that's allready the case. I dont know of a person who can solo these bosses without a full understanding of incoming damage and how to mitigate it. Even DPS builds dont have that luxury unless the DPS they do is outstanding. And again, your not going to make these bosses mechanical teachers more than they allready are, unless you add mechanics or make them meat sacks.

What your arguing for is allready existant. I dont see what raising the difficulty of these bosses is going to do other than 'satisfy elite needs'. You said yourself "Isn't lost tomb supposed to be HARD?" And the simple answer is no, Dubby baby, it was not ment to be another *** dungeon. It was ment to be a step above questing, but a step below dungeons, and it -allready is-.

By the way. Let me give you a challenge, for your 'worldboss difficulty'.

Roll up a Nightblade on any faction, stamina, without vigor. Then go to Soulfire Plateau, near the start of the Auridon zone and see how well you do.

Some other notibles. Xal Nurz, the Atronoch in Stormhaven, I believe there's a storm atronoch in Reapers march, and plenty others who have multiple enemies in their worldbosses and are far more difficult than the standard fodder.

By the way. As for the 'so grouping for dungeons is less painfull'. I have seen vampire stage for healers with 10 K health try to do city of ash. I've seen DPS who I tell to get 20 K health laugh at me. Ignorance isn't going to be fixed by the design, trust me. Stupid is a stupid does and stupid is stubborn as hell.

PS. Please dont comment on the dark souls bit again if you cant comprehend why I made the comparison. I am not responsible for your reading comprehension.

That's already NOT the case.

Let me point out once again the Primate Artorius fight. A few days after DB came out, the forum became flooded with whine threads about that fight. All they needed to know to beat that guy was the break free mechanic.
There are also plenty of other examples I experienced first hand in dungeons when using the random dungeon finder. I only used it for two days after it came live, and did not bother with it again. Mainly because I did not want to lose time carrying three inexperienced players every day.
Any time I suggested those players what they should do, or how they can improve their damage, they got all agitated. I mean, why am I blaming them for failure if they had no issues playing the game so far?
Seriously? Just if you CAN kill world mobs by spamming Entropy, that does not mean you got it made.
An I'm not joking you. There was a player playing a damage dealer in a dungeon with Entropy being his go-to damage skill.
Not to mention heavy armor 25k health "damage dealers" - this was before the changes to Bracing and Wrath.

And seriously, if you argue that I should run a specific build, on a specific class, fight a specific boss, and if I have trouble, then that is an indicator the game is hard...
I don't know who is responsible for whose comprehension.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
It is not my intention to make everybody's experience a big frustrating mess.

Nor are people here saying they want that.
We just want ZOS to stop insulting our intelligence with what they think is a good difficulty level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSzX09QX-g&list=FL_bWm72vV3wRreKLEsOqwtQ&index=1
This video cannot in any way be compared to Dark Souls.
If you are a "core" gamer, and you are content with this difficulty of world monsters, I simply have no comment.

Note that we are talking only about world difficulty.
Group dungeons and Trials will get no changes with One Tamriel, since they are already scaled. So those won't get any harder.

This thread is about open world difficulty (world monsters and bosses, delves and pub(l)ic dungeons).
Those will get a change with battle leveling, and ZOS should take a closer look to how they approach difficulty.

The goal is not to "satisfy elite needs".
The difficulty should be balanced to a degree where ALL players will have to have a basic understanding of game mechanics.
This will in turn make grouping for dungeons a much less painful experience, and the Group Tool that ZOS spent countless hours on might actually be worth using.

If that's your stated goal, then quite frankly that's allready the case. I dont know of a person who can solo these bosses without a full understanding of incoming damage and how to mitigate it. Even DPS builds dont have that luxury unless the DPS they do is outstanding. And again, your not going to make these bosses mechanical teachers more than they allready are, unless you add mechanics or make them meat sacks.

What your arguing for is allready existant. I dont see what raising the difficulty of these bosses is going to do other than 'satisfy elite needs'. You said yourself "Isn't lost tomb supposed to be HARD?" And the simple answer is no, Dubby baby, it was not ment to be another *** dungeon. It was ment to be a step above questing, but a step below dungeons, and it -allready is-.

By the way. Let me give you a challenge, for your 'worldboss difficulty'.

Roll up a Nightblade on any faction, stamina, without vigor. Then go to Soulfire Plateau, near the start of the Auridon zone and see how well you do.

Some other notibles. Xal Nurz, the Atronoch in Stormhaven, I believe there's a storm atronoch in Reapers march, and plenty others who have multiple enemies in their worldbosses and are far more difficult than the standard fodder.

By the way. As for the 'so grouping for dungeons is less painfull'. I have seen vampire stage for healers with 10 K health try to do city of ash. I've seen DPS who I tell to get 20 K health laugh at me. Ignorance isn't going to be fixed by the design, trust me. Stupid is a stupid does and stupid is stubborn as hell.

PS. Please dont comment on the dark souls bit again if you cant comprehend why I made the comparison. I am not responsible for your reading comprehension. "Core" and 'Casual" are meaningless lables. The human expere

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
It is not my intention to make everybody's experience a big frustrating mess.

Nor are people here saying they want that.
We just want ZOS to stop insulting our intelligence with what they think is a good difficulty level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSzX09QX-g&list=FL_bWm72vV3wRreKLEsOqwtQ&index=1
This video cannot in any way be compared to Dark Souls.
If you are a "core" gamer, and you are content with this difficulty of world monsters, I simply have no comment.

Note that we are talking only about world difficulty.
Group dungeons and Trials will get no changes with One Tamriel, since they are already scaled. So those won't get any harder.

This thread is about open world difficulty (world monsters and bosses, delves and pub(l)ic dungeons).
Those will get a change with battle leveling, and ZOS should take a closer look to how they approach difficulty.

The goal is not to "satisfy elite needs".
The difficulty should be balanced to a degree where ALL players will have to have a basic understanding of game mechanics.
This will in turn make grouping for dungeons a much less painful experience, and the Group Tool that ZOS spent countless hours on might actually be worth using.

If that's your stated goal, then quite frankly that's allready the case. I dont know of a person who can solo these bosses without a full understanding of incoming damage and how to mitigate it. Even DPS builds dont have that luxury unless the DPS they do is outstanding. And again, your not going to make these bosses mechanical teachers more than they allready are, unless you add mechanics or make them meat sacks.

What your arguing for is allready existant. I dont see what raising the difficulty of these bosses is going to do other than 'satisfy elite needs'. You said yourself "Isn't lost tomb supposed to be HARD?" And the simple answer is no, Dubby baby, it was not ment to be another *** dungeon. It was ment to be a step above questing, but a step below dungeons, and it -allready is-.

By the way. Let me give you a challenge, for your 'worldboss difficulty'.

Roll up a Nightblade on any faction, stamina, without vigor. Then go to Soulfire Plateau, near the start of the Auridon zone and see how well you do.

Some other notibles. Xal Nurz, the Atronoch in Stormhaven, I believe there's a storm atronoch in Reapers march, and plenty others who have multiple enemies in their worldbosses and are far more difficult than the standard fodder.

By the way. As for the 'so grouping for dungeons is less painfull'. I have seen vampire stage for healers with 10 K health try to do city of ash. I've seen DPS who I tell to get 20 K health laugh at me. Ignorance isn't going to be fixed by the design, trust me. Stupid is a stupid does and stupid is stubborn as hell.

PS. Please dont comment on the dark souls bit again if you cant comprehend why I made the comparison. I am not responsible for your reading comprehension.

That's already NOT the case.

Let me point out once again the Primate Artorius fight. A few days after DB came out, the forum became flooded with whine threads about that fight. All they needed to know to beat that guy was the break free mechanic.
There are also plenty of other examples I experienced first hand in dungeons when using the random dungeon finder. I only used it for two days after it came live, and did not bother with it again. Mainly because I did not want to lose time carrying three inexperienced players every day.
Any time I suggested those players what they should do, or how they can improve their damage, they got all agitated. I mean, why am I blaming them for failure if they had no issues playing the game so far?
Seriously? Just if you CAN kill world mobs by spamming Entropy, that does not mean you got it made.
An I'm not joking you. There was a player playing a damage dealer in a dungeon with Entropy being his go-to damage skill.
Not to mention heavy armor 25k health "damage dealers" - this was before the changes to Bracing and Wrath.

And seriously, if you argue that I should run a specific build, on a specific class, fight a specific boss, and if I have trouble, then that is an indicator the game is hard...
I don't know who is responsible for whose comprehension.

Attempting to tank the content to teach players who will never learn, and who will leave the game after being chewed out time after time for not willing to learn, will not solve your issue. We all get bad groups.

"Kill world boss mobs spamming entropy." Go try that in Soulfire Plateau in Vet Auridon and see how well -that- works out for you.

I suggested you run one of the harder worldbosses with a common squishy build in the hopes you would realize you are one of the few people who hate these bosses enough to change them, but you wont do that. With the changes to Stam lately, half the playerbase isn't even that survivable without a healers help, but does that come into your mind -at all- when you suggest this sort of thing? No. You see the game through a very narrow lense, and that lense isn't what we need game design based around. You seem keen on changing the game based on a few friggin morons. LIKE IT OR NOT, whether it's the hardcore audience or mouthbreathing idiots, changing the game specifically for a minority has only a damaging impact.

Learn the lesson of the MMO. We all get bad groups. They exist. They will leave the game and be replaced by new ones. It's called churn, and it happens on a daily basis. Your not special, I have stories of people running optimized builds that died because they suck. I know guys who were decried for not running best in slot gear who still dominated.

So instead of fiddling with the worldboss difficulty, something I think maybe a quarter of the playerbase does outside of DLC's, why dont you focus on actuall issues? Like the design philosophy we've been on for ages with ESO, the DPS race and -nothing else-? Why dont you propose changes that will actually -help- this game instead of trying to give yourself a challenge, or trying to educate players who will be gone in a matter of days?

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

This entire thread is inane. There are real problems in this game, like pidgeonholing for trials, like the DPS race design, like the content that -really- needs updated like Craglorn and VMA. Yet this thread focuses on something like worldbosses because of idiots who play the game for a week or more then get frustraited and leave.

This is like the CDC releasing a statement saying the worst way to catch a fatal disease is a plane, and people clamoring for the abolishment of american airlines.

Elsonso · August 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is like the CDC releasing a statement saying the worst way to catch a fatal disease is a plane, and people clamoring for the abolishment of american airlines.

At least wait until I get back from my trip next month!

Gulkrim-mur · August 2016

If you want casual play some other garbage.

mmos never have anything casual about them thats not what the real player base wants. Its pvp and boss raids no one wantd to conquer the game with one hand.

If thats what you really wany stay away from dlc zones dungeons and cyrodiil. Like what do you expect out of a mmo is there really any casual one to play?

They are always build and gear dependent crafting and hard to earn rare items. Hard bosses to fight that require teams or being super powerful to get.

Honestly the only casual point of a mmo is when you bust urself and hit end game with the op equipment thats when they become casual at least for the most part.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

DrInsanity666 wrote: »

If you want casual play some other garbage.

mmos never have anything casual about them thats not what the real player base wants. Its pvp and boss raids no one wantd to conquer the game with one hand.

If thats what you really wany stay away from dlc zones dungeons and cyrodiil. Like what do you expect out of a mmo is there really any casual one to play?

They are always build and gear dependent crafting and hard to earn rare items. Hard bosses to fight that require teams or being super powerful to get.

Honestly the only casual point of a mmo is when you bust urself and hit end game with the op equipment thats when they become casual at least for the most part.

...Nobody is talking about casual versus core. The only reason I came up is the OP couldn't figure out why comparisons were being made to specific intellectual property.

And uh. MMO's have necer been casual? Wat? Everquest might not have been, but considering people tell me every day they leave world of warcraft because their five year old son can tank mithic raids (And that's not a joke btw, I have seen that happen) It's either been that way for a while or it's got that way real damn fast and it sells apparently.

Dubhliam · August 2016

@Doctordarkspawn
I know in which context you mentioned Dark Souls, but it has no place here.
It simply cannot be compared to ESO.

By the way, I think you seriously overestimate my wishes.
Take some time to look at the video just below the first post.

Making the world monsters slightly harder won't benefit ME.
I got nothing to gain from it, since I have already cleared all zones, did all quests, explored all there is to explore.
And I won't be revisiting old zones.
The only benefit I might get is maybe I might start using the Grouping Tool again.

The game balance should be revisited for the benefit of new players, and the general health of the population.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
I know in which context you mentioned Dark Souls, but it has no place here.
It simply cannot be compared to ESO.

By the way, I think you seriously overestimate my wishes.
Take some time to look at the video just below the first post.

Making the world monsters slightly harder won't benefit ME.
I got nothing to gain from it, since I have already cleared all zones, did all quests, explored all there is to explore.
And I won't be revisiting old zones.
The only benefit I might get is maybe I might start using the Grouping Tool again.

The game balance should be revisited for the benefit of new players, and the general health of the population.

I have stated my points and I stand by them. What you want will drive people away from the content like it drove people away from Craglorn. It does not solve the original issue. It does not make the game better. And I have no wish to repeat myself more than I allready have.

Dubhliam · August 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
I know in which context you mentioned Dark Souls, but it has no place here.
It simply cannot be compared to ESO.

By the way, I think you seriously overestimate my wishes.
Take some time to look at the video just below the first post.

Making the world monsters slightly harder won't benefit ME.
I got nothing to gain from it, since I have already cleared all zones, did all quests, explored all there is to explore.
And I won't be revisiting old zones.
The only benefit I might get is maybe I might start using the Grouping Tool again.

The game balance should be revisited for the benefit of new players, and the general health of the population.

I have stated my points and I stand by them. What you want will drive people away from the content like it drove people away from Craglorn. It does not solve the original issue. It does not make the game better. And I have no wish to repeat myself more than I allready have.

But I obviously should repeat myself again and again.
How can you compare normal zones to Craglorn? (finally you made a measurable comparison which clearly shows you overreact)
Craglorn was obviously designed as a group zone.
If you believe that is what I propose, and other people want, then I can only reassure you that you are mistaken.
There is a world of difficulty between Craglorn monsters and what we currently have in starter zones.

By the way, good thing you mentioned Craglorn.
It is a great indication of how big of a spike in difficulty it was when it came out. The only reason (some) people were driven away from Craglorn is because they were not even remotely prepared for it.
Guess why?

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
I know in which context you mentioned Dark Souls, but it has no place here.
It simply cannot be compared to ESO.

By the way, I think you seriously overestimate my wishes.
Take some time to look at the video just below the first post.

Making the world monsters slightly harder won't benefit ME.
I got nothing to gain from it, since I have already cleared all zones, did all quests, explored all there is to explore.
And I won't be revisiting old zones.
The only benefit I might get is maybe I might start using the Grouping Tool again.

The game balance should be revisited for the benefit of new players, and the general health of the population.

I have stated my points and I stand by them. What you want will drive people away from the content like it drove people away from Craglorn. It does not solve the original issue. It does not make the game better. And I have no wish to repeat myself more than I allready have.

But I obviously should repeat myself again and again.
How can you compare normal zones to Craglorn? (finally you made a measurable comparison which clearly shows you overreact)
Craglorn was obviously designed as a group zone.
If you believe that is what I propose, and other people want, then I can only reassure you that you are mistaken.
There is a world of difficulty between Craglorn monsters and what we currently have in starter zones.

By the way, good thing you mentioned Craglorn.
It is a great indication of how big of a spike in difficulty it was when it came out. The only reason (some) people were driven away from Craglorn is because they were not even remotely prepared for it.
Guess why?

I'll continue to debate you if only because I'm bored.

I wont bother outlining the comparisons, you either dont understand or dont care. Instead, I will state my point in very clear terms. And if you cant understand this, there really is no hope for you.

Increasing Worldboss difficulty will eliminate the few reasons to do them. There allready is not a reason to do them by and large. Soulgems, gear, poisons, which you can get from questing and probably faster. Now you must group for them, and they dont give rewards nearly close to what the time and effort is worth. You can make these things mechanic teachers all you want, but if you need the holy trinity to do them, guess who's going to be doing all the learning? THE TANK. And precisely no one else.

Your trying to bail out a boat with a bucket. A futile effort that really only exists to make you feel better in the face of an unsolveable issue.

As for Craglorn.

Yes. Craglorn was designed as a group zone. That. Is. Why. It. Failed. The people who do group content usually do them in short bursts, not an entire zone. Questing with a group is notoriously bothersome because there's allways going to be that one guy who takes the time to read every quest letter to letter, pixel to pixel, and allways gonna be that one guy who wants to just get on with it. That's why Craglorn failed. Not because of it's difficulty, but because it had no lasting use to the questers, or the dungeoneers. People went in, got what they came for (AKA, nirnhoned stuff, quest XP's, achievements) and never set foot in it again because why the ***, would you go through that pain a second time, for gold you could get doing the thief farm?

Sausage · August 2016

Request system, player can put Requests and other players help and get reward when doing so. I hope they dont make some damn scaling system, if theres 3 guy its scaled to 3 guy, if 1 guy its scaled to 1 guy, thats just boring. The game is alot more interesting if theres easy, hard and nearly-impossible content. My system is way better even better if Guild Mates helps you, the reward is even better, so they would encourage guild mates to help each other.

Lysette · August 2016

From a low level perspective the DLC zone battle-level-scaling feels quite well balanced to me, it is neither too easy nor too hard - given that I have about 1/3 of my skill points in non-combat skills and a hybrid build - it feels right to me like that.

Dubhliam · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

From a low level perspective the DLC zone battle-level-scaling feels quite well balanced to me, it is neither too easy nor too hard - given that I have about 1/3 of my skill points in non-combat skills and a hybrid build - it feels right to me like that.

Yeah, the scaled zones seem to be more balanced than the regular zones.
I would only hope that even normal monsters would have basic mechanics that should be followed.
For example, look at the video above: the lion is hitting with a basic attack most of the time, but when it hits with a heavy attack, it barely does higher damage.
I believe players should be taught early to block or dodge heavy attacks, and interrupt channels.
Not to mention break free from stuns.
Primate Artorius was a valuable (albeit frustrating) experience for new players that did not know about the break free mechanic.

ScardyFox · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

It is people like you why "casual" is used as a derogatory term.

Learning the basic game mechanics has nothing to do with being casual.

Succinct and highly apt.

BlackguardBob · August 2016

Kendaric wrote: »

Quite frankly, I like the difficulty (or lack thereof) we currently have.
I've been around since the beta weekends and I remember how Doshia and Molag Bal were back then. I have no interest whatsoever to go back to that difficulty (or anything even closely resembling it).
If ZOS were to increase difficulty of world content, I can safely say I'd stop playing ESO. Dungeons and trials are a different thing, they can be hard as hell and I don't mind as I can ignore them.

... and Gutstripper!

Well said, fella. I 100% agree with you and so apparently does ZoS since they implemented the changes to where they are at now.

[directing my remarks elsewhere]
Some people have become so good at this game that they seek a greater challenge where no greater challenge exists. They have beaten the game but instead of moving on they advocate that the entire game should be rebalanced so that it becomes even more difficult than it currently is for their own personal satisfaction with little to no regard for the majority of players who are not that way inclined.

ESO cannot and never will appeal to everybody at once. It has to appeal to most of the players most of the time. That's the best ZoS can hope for and some players should learn that and not preach to us about learning game mechanics like this was some kind of serious thing going on.

Kendaric · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

From a low level perspective the DLC zone battle-level-scaling feels quite well balanced to me, it is neither too easy nor too hard - given that I have about 1/3 of my skill points in non-combat skills and a hybrid build - it feels right to me like that.

Yeah, the scaled zones seem to be more balanced than the regular zones.
I would only hope that even normal monsters would have basic mechanics that should be followed.
For example, look at the video above: the lion is hitting with a basic attack most of the time, but when it hits with a heavy attack, it barely does higher damage.
I believe players should be taught early to block or dodge heavy attacks, and interrupt channels.
Not to mention break free from stuns.
Primate Artorius was a valuable (albeit frustrating) experience for new players that did not know about the break free mechanic.

The video with the lion is a bad example, though. Lions are the easiest mobs in Hews Bane aside from Skeevers and we know nothing about the player's equipment & CP.
Players are taught to use block/dodge & interrupt. I die pretty easily when I don't block/dodge, sure, not from a single enemy (unless it's an elite/boss) but groups force me to block/dodge attacks or take a lot of damage.

The main culprits here are CP available to low level characters and the lack of softcaps.

snakester320 · August 2016

my issue is there so called mega server has issues at best even with the different pacts/starting zones .. are they going to remove the pacts alltogether? Allow you to start from where ever you want ? group more players together in zones and watch the game become even more unplayable in there so called buggy mega server!!