ATTENTION ZOS: YOUR ANTI CHEAT SYSTEM HAS BANNED TWO OF THE MOST HONEST AND INVOLVED PLAYERS IN GAME

Kildayen · August 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_TristanK @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_DaryaK and whoever else @ZOS that reads these forums.

I just learned of a situation where two of the most honest players I know in this game got banned. I will not mention their name here. I will only speak of what I know.

I have been playing this game since beta. In that time I've met two people who, in my opinion, were different than every other player I have known. These two people LOVED to be unique with builds, using sets that were far from the norm, and nothing you would see on one of the YouTube fanboy pages. They did not follow builds. They created them. I've gotten so many incredible and unique build ideas from them. They did their best to not only learn the mechanics of how fights work in this game, but they spent endless hours conducting research and testing on how different pieces of gear worked in different situations. I just have to laugh at some of the ideas I have gotten from them. Crazy and unique.

These two players were also leaders in one of the end-game guilds I am in. In the "ABOUT US" section of this guild, rule number 3 says clearly "EXPLOITS AND MACROS = GUILD KICK". I cannot express enough how strict they are with this rule. The guild takes pride in not cheating. In doing things the right way. Accomplishing something great in this game means absolutely nothing if you cheated to get there. These two are always reporting bugs and broken things in the game, whether it be gear or quest related. They take the time to make this game a better place for everyone. Heck, I remember testing things out on the PTS a few DLCs ago and finding something broken. As soon as I mention it to one of these players, they insisted that I reported it right away.

The anti cheat system you have set up in this game has just taken these two players away from us. They were both banned on Thursday. They have reached out for help but have gotten nowhere. If this ban is not overturned, it is going to have a huge impact on a bunch of people in this game. These two players have invested so much of their time and gold testing things out, only to get punched in the gut with this ban. Let me make something very clear. THESE TWO PLAYERS ARE NOT CHEATERS! If two honest, integrity filled players can get banned for no good reason, why would I or anyone else want to invest any more time in this game? Why put another minute into a game where you can lose all of your progress for no good reason at all? You have put a big hurt on an active community in this game. We had many things planned this weekend, but now have no desire at all to complete them because of this situation. Two great people were taken from us for the wrong reasons and it has left an empty feeling within their family.

Please remedy this situation. Make it right for them and for us. Remove their ban and apologize for the aggravation it has caused. It should have never happened and it needs to be fixed NOW.

I leave you with a quote from another section of these boards. This is real. This is wrong. Please do the right thing.

I'd like to issue a warning to the ESO testing community due to recent events.

1. Do not test ANYTHING outside of the PTS server.
2. Do not put on, or interact with bugged content on the live server in any way shape or form. It does not matter anymore if you are putting it on to test. It doesn't matter if you stayed out of PvP, avoided leaderboard scores, or any other reasoning you might normally operate under. The new parameters for the exploit tracker are so broad that it will accidentally throw your name into the hat.
3. Do not believe that your record of bug finding will save you from a ban if you are caught testing the parameters of a glitch/bug/exploit on the live server. ZoS doesn't know who you are even if you found 40 crippling bugs over the last 3 years and gift-wrapped a report so they could fix it. They will not communicate with you and you won't have a chance to explain yourself.

There is a community of players, tinkerers, who have, over the last 3 years, painstakingly tested every conceivable aspect of this game. It is a hobby that comes at great personal cost, normally time and gold, but recently an even higher cost... their account.

Interacting with bugged content, even for testing purposes, is now grounds for a perma-ban with no chance of repeal. Exploiting no longer means using a bug to further your account goals. It now means simply interacting with a bug, regardless of its benefit to you.

I'd like to say thanks to the testing community and all the thankless hard work they do for ZoS. You really are the unsung heroes of ESO and it's sad you have to deal with this.

Do the right thing, ZOS. Fix this mess.

-Kildayen

Kildayen · August 2016

[snip]

There is no reason for me to stick up for anyone who has done anything wrong in this game. I get no gain from it at all. Anyone else who wishes to share their "Right..." kind of comments on this thread, [snip] do something else with your time.

[edited for flaming]

Nifty2g · August 2016

I will assume this has something to do with the latest game breaking bug

1. Do not test ANYTHING outside of the PTS server

2. Do not put on, or interact with bugged content on the live server in any way shape or form. It does not matter anymore if you are putting it on to test. It doesn't matter if you stayed out of PvP, avoided leaderboard scores, or any other reasoning you might normally operate under. The new parameters for the exploit tracker are so broad that it will accidentally throw your name into the hat.

Isn't this common practice though, if there is a game breaking bug happening, and chat all around game is going viral, you dont simply "put it on" to test it on the live server, when so many people already know about it. It must have been on for quite awhile for this persons account to be pinned for using the exploit. Maybe there is more to it?
I just don't understand putting it on to test it on a live server.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

I'm confused were they testing something on test center and got banned by auto system or some other thing ?

brandelwine · August 2016

I couldn't have said it better, Kildayen. I second that.

starkerealm · August 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm confused were they testing something on test center and got banned by auto system or some other thing ?

They were mucking around with an exploit... I think I can guess which one. Except they were using it on live, and got banned for it. In a shock to precisely no one.

EZgoin76 · August 2016

Are you really ignorant enough to think that, no matter how pure your intentions may be, people won't be condescending?

Now for the point of your thread. Posting here will change nothing. So... good luck.

starkerealm · August 2016

Kildayen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Right...

If you are being sarcastic, you take take your "right" and shove it right up your "rear".

There is no reason for me to stick up for anyone who has done anything wrong in this game. I get no gain from it at all. Anyone else who wishes to share their "Right..." kind of comments on this thread, get a life and do something else with your time. You aren't wanted in this thread.

Well, you've already gotten a couple awesomes for the original post, so it's certainly getting you something.

And, no, it's a simple issue; you're making a fairly grand claim with absolutely nothing to back it up. It's an uncited, "oh, no, a bad thing happened somewhere," without even enough information for us to judge for ourselves if the "bad thing that happened" was entirely justified.

If this was a false positive, then... okay, yeah, that's unfortunate, and it's something that should get reversed. But it honestly sounds, from your post, like your sparkling little angels were bringing exploits over to live, and regardless of their motivations, that is something you can get banned for. It's an incredibly stupid thing to do.

If I had a nickle for every time I've read, "this ban should be reversed, because I was just testing something out..." I could probably pay for my coffee today, with it.

Hempyre · August 2016

Ban caps exploit pls.

Seriously dude, *** obnoxious.

Americanfunguy · August 2016

Zos I know these people he spoke and their integrity and time they spent in this game is unparalleled to virtually anyone I've seen. These people found bugs and reported them for you, so this system has taken out two people that ASSISTED ZoS in finding and making changes. I urge you to reconsider the ban, they have done nothing wrong.

brandelwine · August 2016

If people get banned for putting on a bugged set then everyone who put on Reactive Plate or any number of sets should be banned. I have worn sets I had no clue were bugged until much later when someone told me it wasn't supposed to work like that. ZOS has not banned people for testing and reporting bugs on the live server in the past. This is a new position which I suspect has come about because of their inability to control the hackers/exploiters who use things like Cheat Engine. Anyways, I know this thread will continue to have trolls and those who sincerely don't know the state of things writing in. All I can say is, haters gonna hate. I know my guild and players want only the best for this game and they got banned for it. I will not be supporting this game (canceled my account and will not play it) until ZOS reinstates these accounts.Even if they do, I may not return. I'm seriously heartbroken right now and wonder if it is time to just cut ties for good.

Hagbard_OM · August 2016

Americanfunguy wrote: »

Zos I know these people he spoke and their integrity and time they spent in this game is unparalleled to virtually anyone I've seen. These people found bugs and reported them for you, so this system has taken out two people that ASSISTED ZoS in finding and making changes. I urge you to reconsider the ban, they have done nothing wrong.

Same. No intention of personal gain on the part of either player. Both put on the set for a test run after hearing rumors (no leaderboards, loot, or PvP), and these are both players who have a long history for bug hunting/reporting.

yodased · August 2016

Hagbard_OM wrote: »

Americanfunguy wrote: »

Zos I know these people he spoke and their integrity and time they spent in this game is unparalleled to virtually anyone I've seen. These people found bugs and reported them for you, so this system has taken out two people that ASSISTED ZoS in finding and making changes. I urge you to reconsider the ban, they have done nothing wrong.

Same. No intention of personal gain on the part of either player. Both put on the set for a test run after hearing rumors (no leaderboards, loot, or PvP), and these are both players who have a long history for bug hunting/reporting.

Why would they need to further confirm? There were PLENTY of video evidence already out there, it was known full well and good this was bugged.

You understand your logic is being clouded by your emotion right?

Put broken set on knowing full well its broken, whether to test or not, is wrong.

If you don't know its broken and you get banned, thats complete b.s., but no matter the reason, ends don't justify means.

Daemons_Bane · August 2016

Probably getting flogged for making this comment, but I guess a lot of us has had this thought anyway.. Just because they seem honest and fair, to the people who claim to know them, does not equal them being so..

kevlarto_ESO · August 2016

Problem is people that cheat also lie about cheating, if they are as honest as you say all they need to do is appeal the ban, if ZOS finds no wrong doing they will be back, there are still way to many cheaters in this game, in my opinion ZOS is still to soft on cheaters and need to ban more, and perma ban needs to mean perma, I see cheaters everyday in pvp, and I am sick of seeing cheaters.

Nifty2g · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

Hagbard_OM wrote: »

Americanfunguy wrote: »

Zos I know these people he spoke and their integrity and time they spent in this game is unparalleled to virtually anyone I've seen. These people found bugs and reported them for you, so this system has taken out two people that ASSISTED ZoS in finding and making changes. I urge you to reconsider the ban, they have done nothing wrong.

Same. No intention of personal gain on the part of either player. Both put on the set for a test run after hearing rumors (no leaderboards, loot, or PvP), and these are both players who have a long history for bug hunting/reporting.

Why would they need to further confirm? There were PLENTY of video evidence already out there, it was known full well and good this was bugged.

You understand your logic is being clouded by your emotion right?

Put broken set on knowing full well its broken, whether to test or not, is wrong.

If you don't know its broken and you get banned, thats complete b.s., but no matter the reason, ends don't justify means.

I tend to agree with this, from that post it seems they exploited it, to put it on and test it on a live server and do a dungeon run, that means they exploited. How is a cheat detection meant to see who is and who isnt just putting a set on to see what its like and run around with it, I see where they are coming from. But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

hrothbern · August 2016

1. Do not test ANYTHING outside of the PTS server.

If you would for example want to test the current status of Malubeth still having weird heal ticks....

You cannot do that on PTS, because PTS is not updated with the last Malubeth patch made on live.
And apparently you run a risk when testing it on live

That is a deadlock !

Which ZOS could unlock by keeping PTS updated with live patches

Junkogen · August 2016

Why not send this to ZOS through in-game feedback? What is the point of posting it here with no details? What type of feedback are you looking for?

Daemons_Bane · August 2016

But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

Because that way you can claim that you did it to help the game work out it's bugs

starkerealm · August 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

In theory? To see if the issue made off of PTS and onto the live build.

In practice? Unless you're an employee on an official QA account, you should never do this.

Nifty2g · August 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

Because that way you can claim that you did it to help the game work out it's bugs

Do you really believe this when there was a thread on the forums, everyone talking about it on Live server and multiple reports.
I personally do not see how putting the set on after all this was happening and then claim it to be testing purposes. I would have just left it alone, even hearing about this bug then going out and buying all the pieces to put it on and test it out?
I might be missing something, but it seems like he got pinned for exploiting and ZOS isn't at fault like everyone is saying so

Do you want an anti cheat system or what, why do you all keep telling them to turn it down so people can get away with it

And to everyone, you guys do realise this was a game breaking bug... 100k weapon damage for equipping a set, there is a difference between this and something like malubeth

starkerealm · August 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

Because that way you can claim that you did it to help the game work out it's bugs

Operative word there is: "claim."

Nifty2g · August 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

In theory? To see if the issue made off of PTS and onto the live build.

In practice? Unless you're an employee on an official QA account, you should never do this.

2 people took the little part of my post without reading the full thing? I am agreeing with this, but that is not the point. It had already been reported, it seems this person heard about it, read a forum post, went and bought the gear, and then put it on to try it out.
Now, why do that on Live instead of PTS when it's already been reported and gone viral when ZOS knew full well about it

starkerealm · August 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

Because that way you can claim that you did it to help the game work out it's bugs

Do you really believe this when there was a thread on the forums, everyone talking about it on Live server and multiple reports.
I personally do not see how putting the set on after all this was happening and then claim it to be testing purposes. I would have just left it alone, even hearing about this bug then going out and buying all the pieces to put it on and test it out?
I might be missing something, but it seems like he got pinned for exploiting and ZOS isn't at fault like everyone is saying so

Do you want an anti cheat system or what, why do you all keep telling them to turn it down so people can get away with it

And to everyone, you guys do realise this was a game breaking bug... 100k weapon damage for equipping a set, there is a difference between this and something like malubeth

Yeah, derping around with this on live is just stupid. The numbers were so far out of range, you had to know it'd set off alarms.

mb10 · August 2016

cant they speak for themselves?

who is it anyway?

yodased · August 2016

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/284771/wrongfully-banned#latest

Taia · August 2016

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/4xe3wp/a_sincere_apology_to_legendary_mage_the_eso/

Might want to read this post before going on a witch hunt. It can be a hard lesson but not everyone is as honest as you might think they are.

Daemons_Bane · August 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

Because that way you can claim that you did it to help the game work out it's bugs

Do you really believe this when there was a thread on the forums, everyone talking about it on Live server and multiple reports.
I personally do not see how putting the set on after all this was happening and then claim it to be testing purposes. I would have just left it alone, even hearing about this bug then going out and buying all the pieces to put it on and test it out?
I might be missing something, but it seems like he got pinned for exploiting and ZOS isn't at fault like everyone is saying so

Do you want an anti cheat system or what, why do you all keep telling them to turn it down so people can get away with it

And to everyone, you guys do realise this was a game breaking bug... 100k weapon damage for equipping a set, there is a difference between this and something like malubeth

Just to be clear

I am not on the side of the banned people.. I think that they simply got caught red handed.. My comment was meant as to imply that they would say they tested stuff, as an excuse to just use the items for which they got banned

starkerealm · August 2016

Taia wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/4xe3wp/a_sincere_apology_to_legendary_mage_the_eso/

Might want to read this post before going on a witch hunt. It can be a hard lesson but not everyone is as honest as you might think they are.

I'm conflicted, you got me to read a redit post, but it's actually a very good reminder about naming and shaming.

Nifty2g · August 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

But why do it on Live when the PTS is there?

Because that way you can claim that you did it to help the game work out it's bugs

Do you really believe this when there was a thread on the forums, everyone talking about it on Live server and multiple reports.
I personally do not see how putting the set on after all this was happening and then claim it to be testing purposes. I would have just left it alone, even hearing about this bug then going out and buying all the pieces to put it on and test it out?
I might be missing something, but it seems like he got pinned for exploiting and ZOS isn't at fault like everyone is saying so

Do you want an anti cheat system or what, why do you all keep telling them to turn it down so people can get away with it

And to everyone, you guys do realise this was a game breaking bug... 100k weapon damage for equipping a set, there is a difference between this and something like malubeth

Just to be clear I am not on the side of the banned people.. I think that they simply got caught red handed.. My comment was meant as to imply that they would say they tested stuff, as an excuse to just use the items for which they got banned

I mean the person was just testing it, and what not maybe wanted to see what it was like etc, but as the OP is saying that the person sends in bug reports and stuff like that since launch etc, sounds like this person thought they were invincible :P

Rayya_Blackheart · August 2016

Well. They were able to test the validity of the cheat engine, so I guess you've got that going.

Yeah, it's frustrating but the system is AI. It has no idea who you are or who I am, just that if X parameters are met then it kicks.

As soon as I found out the set was bugged it came right out of my guild store listing and into my bank until fixed. Never once did it cross my mind to put the damn thing on nor would I make a profit off of someone else trying to exploit it. Especially knowing how testy the cheat detector has been.

I digress, if these people were as innocent as stated here (again, I don't know them from Adam) then it will be resolved accordingly when it can be addressed. Until then, patience.