One Tamriel - a clean slate for open-world balancing

Dubhliam · August 2016

There are many threads opened in the past week, mostly by people that are concerned about overcrowding and server performance.

While I do expect some hiccups when OT goes live, I don't share the concerns of those people, server capabilities will remain the same, the same number of people will be handled, simply in different zone shards.
Currently there are 3 types of shards for each zone - AD, EP and DC, each of which can get another copy when it gets overcrowded.
After OT, there will be only one type of shard for each zone, where all alliances are present, and it also will be copied multiple times to accommodate as much players as needed.

Great, now that we have that covered, I'd like to point out on a problematic that bugs me for a long time in ESO:
Open world monster difficulty.

I am one of the players that played ESO when it was challenging, when you could not solo a world boss, let alone a Public dungeon Group event.
One Tamriel and battle leveling grants ZOS a clean slate for difficulty balance, and I would hate to see that opportunity wasted.

The current battle leveling might be too punishing for new players, so there would have to be some kind of an additional boost for players under level 10, but after that, I believe the player should learn and follow the basic game mechanics to progress in the world.
This means bashing casting monsters to prevent a dangerous spell, keeping out of red, dodge rolling or blocking heavy attacks, then using heavy attacks themselves to knock down a concussed enemy.
EDIT: oh yeah and break free, how did I forget about break free? (hello Primate Artorius)
These are some of the game mechanics that ALL players should know by heart, and use them daily while playing ESO.

Also, bump the difficulty of world bosses and Public dungeons.
Wrothgar is a masterpiece in terms of world monster difficulty, World boss difficulty and public dungeon difficulty, it should serve as an example.
Make every world boss worthy of the achievement tied to killing it.

Honestly, I would not mind bumping the world monster difficulty even higher than the current battle leveled equivalent, but I guess it is good enough.

The current game difficulty has a serious gap that tends to hit new people really hard once they reach lvl 50.
The experience of entering a veteran dungeon for the first time can be overwhelming.

One Tamriel and battle leveling should serve to smoothen the difficulty curve, and prepare new players for every endgame content.

Dubhliam · August 2016

Also, here is a wonderful video from the masters at Extra Credits talking about Balancing for skill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w&index=2&list=FL_bWm72vV3wRreKLEsOqwtQ
It might not apply to ESO 100% but it surely gives some perspective on which mistakes to avoid.

CasNation · August 2016

Oh thank god someone who understands how the phasing in this game works...

I, too, am a bit worried about overworld balance when OT hits. Since players gain skills as they level (and combat gets easier as a result) I am worried about a reverse difficulty curve. It shouldn't be impossible for new players, and easy for old ones. In the same breath, it shouldnt be easy for new players, and mind numbing boring for old ones. I am hoping ZOS does something to prevent this.

Lysette · August 2016

My idea is leave the starter-island as they are - when people come from those to the mainland, they have about level 6-8 and that can then be battle-leveled, it will be hard for them at times, but it is doable with some care and caution. At that time they have as well a bar full with abilities and can actually fight something what is not just a joke.

Dubhliam · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

My idea is leave the starter-island as they are - when people come from those to the mainland, they have about level 6-8 and that can then be battle-leveled, it will be hard for them at times, but it is doable with some care and caution. At that time they have as well a bar full with abilities and can actually fight something what is not just a joke.

That would be one way to do it, but then that is contrary to what they are trying to achieve.
ZOS is trying to make the whole of Tamriel available to all players as soon as they leave the Wailing Prison.

I believe a boost to players under level 10 would be a more practical solution.

Acharnor · August 2016

Man I think OT is going to be amazing. The game is going to open up and provide so much freedom. I always hated going to a new zone and finding out somehow a Riften mudcrab was level 40 and a StoneFalls Mud Crab was level 4. I know - small things, but so dumb.

Can't freaking wait.

Lysette · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

My idea is leave the starter-island as they are - when people come from those to the mainland, they have about level 6-8 and that can then be battle-leveled, it will be hard for them at times, but it is doable with some care and caution. At that time they have as well a bar full with abilities and can actually fight something what is not just a joke.

That would be one way to do it, but then that is contrary to what they are trying to achieve.
ZOS is trying to make the whole of Tamriel available to all players as soon as they leave the Wailing Prison.

I believe a boost to players under level 10 would be a more practical solution.

That is already happening - my stats are often higher than those from higher level players, because there is a boost of stats in place in DLC zones, when you are really low level - -the problem is more, that new players have a nearly empty ability bar - well they might have 2 class abilities slotted but nothing for their weapon due to lack of skill points or skill locked, if they skipped.

Just imagine you would have to kill a DLC mob with just having strife and teleport strike on your bar as a NB - you are basically screwed.

DenMoria · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

There are many threads opened in the past week, mostly by people that are concerned about overcrowding and server performance.

While I do expect some hiccups when OT goes live, I don't share the concerns of those people, server capabilities will remain the same, the same number of people will be handled, simply in different zone shards.
Currently there are 3 types of shards for each zone - AD, EP and DC, each of which can get another copy when it gets overcrowded.
After OT, there will be only one type of shard for each zone, where all alliances are present, and it also will be copied multiple times to accommodate as much players as needed.

Great, now that we have that covered, I'd like to point out on a problematic that bugs me for a long time in ESO:
Open world monster difficulty.

I am one of the players that played ESO when it was challenging, when you could not solo a world boss, let alone a Public dungeon Group event.
One Tamriel and battle leveling grants ZOS a clean slate for difficulty balance, and I would hate to see that opportunity wasted.

The current battle leveling might be too punishing for new players, so there would have to be some kind of an additional boost for players under level 10, but after that, I believe the player should learn and follow the basic game mechanics to progress in the world.
This means bashing casting monsters to prevent a dangerous spell, keeping out of red, dodge rolling or blocking heavy attacks, then using heavy attacks themselves to knock down a concussed enemy.
These are some of the game mechanics that ALL players should know by heart, and use them daily while playing ESO.

Also, bump the difficulty of world bosses and Public dungeons.
Wrothgar is a masterpiece in terms of world monster difficulty, World boss difficulty and public dungeon difficulty, it should serve as an example.
Make every world boss worthy of the achievement tied to killing it.

Honestly, I would not mind bumping the world monster difficulty even higher than the current battle leveled equivalent, but I guess it is good enough.

The current game difficulty has a serious gap that tends to hit new people really hard once they reach lvl 50.
The experience of entering a veteran dungeon for the first time can be overwhelming.

One Tamriel and battle leveling should serve to smoothen the difficulty curve, and prepare new players for every endgame content.

Basically you are saying. Get rid of all casuals and take all of the actual fun out of the game with the mob difficulty.

Oh well. I've been a subscriber since release, but, if they're really going to take all the actual "fun" out of the game for people who just want to play it and not be punished with the difficulty then ciao. I'm sure they don't need my $15 a month.

Dubhliam · August 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

There are many threads opened in the past week, mostly by people that are concerned about overcrowding and server performance.

While I do expect some hiccups when OT goes live, I don't share the concerns of those people, server capabilities will remain the same, the same number of people will be handled, simply in different zone shards.
Currently there are 3 types of shards for each zone - AD, EP and DC, each of which can get another copy when it gets overcrowded.
After OT, there will be only one type of shard for each zone, where all alliances are present, and it also will be copied multiple times to accommodate as much players as needed.

Great, now that we have that covered, I'd like to point out on a problematic that bugs me for a long time in ESO:
Open world monster difficulty.

I am one of the players that played ESO when it was challenging, when you could not solo a world boss, let alone a Public dungeon Group event.
One Tamriel and battle leveling grants ZOS a clean slate for difficulty balance, and I would hate to see that opportunity wasted.

The current battle leveling might be too punishing for new players, so there would have to be some kind of an additional boost for players under level 10, but after that, I believe the player should learn and follow the basic game mechanics to progress in the world.
This means bashing casting monsters to prevent a dangerous spell, keeping out of red, dodge rolling or blocking heavy attacks, then using heavy attacks themselves to knock down a concussed enemy.
These are some of the game mechanics that ALL players should know by heart, and use them daily while playing ESO.

Also, bump the difficulty of world bosses and Public dungeons.
Wrothgar is a masterpiece in terms of world monster difficulty, World boss difficulty and public dungeon difficulty, it should serve as an example.
Make every world boss worthy of the achievement tied to killing it.

Honestly, I would not mind bumping the world monster difficulty even higher than the current battle leveled equivalent, but I guess it is good enough.

The current game difficulty has a serious gap that tends to hit new people really hard once they reach lvl 50.
The experience of entering a veteran dungeon for the first time can be overwhelming.

One Tamriel and battle leveling should serve to smoothen the difficulty curve, and prepare new players for every endgame content.

Basically you are saying. Get rid of all casuals and take all of the actual fun out of the game with the mob difficulty.

Oh well. I've been a subscriber since release, but, if they're really going to take all the actual "fun" out of the game for people who just want to play it and not be punished with the difficulty then ciao. I'm sure they don't need my $15 a month.

It is people like you why "casual" is used as a derogatory term.

Learning the basic game mechanics has nothing to do with being casual.

DenMoria · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

There are many threads opened in the past week, mostly by people that are concerned about overcrowding and server performance.

While I do expect some hiccups when OT goes live, I don't share the concerns of those people, server capabilities will remain the same, the same number of people will be handled, simply in different zone shards.
Currently there are 3 types of shards for each zone - AD, EP and DC, each of which can get another copy when it gets overcrowded.
After OT, there will be only one type of shard for each zone, where all alliances are present, and it also will be copied multiple times to accommodate as much players as needed.

Great, now that we have that covered, I'd like to point out on a problematic that bugs me for a long time in ESO:
Open world monster difficulty.

I am one of the players that played ESO when it was challenging, when you could not solo a world boss, let alone a Public dungeon Group event.
One Tamriel and battle leveling grants ZOS a clean slate for difficulty balance, and I would hate to see that opportunity wasted.

The current battle leveling might be too punishing for new players, so there would have to be some kind of an additional boost for players under level 10, but after that, I believe the player should learn and follow the basic game mechanics to progress in the world.
This means bashing casting monsters to prevent a dangerous spell, keeping out of red, dodge rolling or blocking heavy attacks, then using heavy attacks themselves to knock down a concussed enemy.
These are some of the game mechanics that ALL players should know by heart, and use them daily while playing ESO.

Also, bump the difficulty of world bosses and Public dungeons.
Wrothgar is a masterpiece in terms of world monster difficulty, World boss difficulty and public dungeon difficulty, it should serve as an example.
Make every world boss worthy of the achievement tied to killing it.

Honestly, I would not mind bumping the world monster difficulty even higher than the current battle leveled equivalent, but I guess it is good enough.

The current game difficulty has a serious gap that tends to hit new people really hard once they reach lvl 50.
The experience of entering a veteran dungeon for the first time can be overwhelming.

One Tamriel and battle leveling should serve to smoothen the difficulty curve, and prepare new players for every endgame content.

Basically you are saying. Get rid of all casuals and take all of the actual fun out of the game with the mob difficulty.

Oh well. I've been a subscriber since release, but, if they're really going to take all the actual "fun" out of the game for people who just want to play it and not be punished with the difficulty then ciao. I'm sure they don't need my $15 a month.

It is people like you why "casual" is used as a derogatory term.

Learning the basic game mechanics has nothing to do with being casual.

I know the basics and I am not a poor player, but I refuse to participate in the inane and unbalanced "group" activities and kowtow to the "build to the mold" mob that rules the game.

I play to enjoy, not to be punished.

ESO is just turning in to another pointless and worthless MMO that I will never play again.

It's a good thing that the genre is dieing.

Subscription cancelled today. I doubt I'll ever pick it up again.

Too bad. It had potential.

But, as I said. ZoS doesn't care in the least if the lose a subscriber, since, 99% of you are too cheap to subscribe in the first place.

Dubhliam · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

My idea is leave the starter-island as they are - when people come from those to the mainland, they have about level 6-8 and that can then be battle-leveled, it will be hard for them at times, but it is doable with some care and caution. At that time they have as well a bar full with abilities and can actually fight something what is not just a joke.

That would be one way to do it, but then that is contrary to what they are trying to achieve.
ZOS is trying to make the whole of Tamriel available to all players as soon as they leave the Wailing Prison.

I believe a boost to players under level 10 would be a more practical solution.

That is already happening - my stats are often higher than those from higher level players, because there is a boost of stats in place in DLC zones, when you are really low level - -the problem is more, that new players have a nearly empty ability bar - well they might have 2 class abilities slotted but nothing for their weapon due to lack of skill points or skill locked, if they skipped.

Just imagine you would have to kill a DLC mob with just having strife and teleport strike on your bar as a NB - you are basically screwed.

I don't have to imagine, I have entered Wrothgar with my newly made lvl 3 nightblade, no CPs invested.
I agree it is a bit much in terms of difficulty, that is why I am proposing an additional boost to players under level 10.

That being said, the first few levels are gained rather fast, as well as the skills themselves.
ZOS already made the first skill in every class tree have the most impact.
Every class can unlock one of two damaging abilities with their very first skill point. Some of those skills stay as the best spammable single target skills or executes for the rest of the game (Puncturing strikes, Assassin's Blade, Strife, Crystal Shard, Mage's Fury).
Also worth noting that Templars can unlock their Rushed Ceremony with the first skill point.

Dubhliam · August 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

There are many threads opened in the past week, mostly by people that are concerned about overcrowding and server performance.

While I do expect some hiccups when OT goes live, I don't share the concerns of those people, server capabilities will remain the same, the same number of people will be handled, simply in different zone shards.
Currently there are 3 types of shards for each zone - AD, EP and DC, each of which can get another copy when it gets overcrowded.
After OT, there will be only one type of shard for each zone, where all alliances are present, and it also will be copied multiple times to accommodate as much players as needed.

Great, now that we have that covered, I'd like to point out on a problematic that bugs me for a long time in ESO:
Open world monster difficulty.

I am one of the players that played ESO when it was challenging, when you could not solo a world boss, let alone a Public dungeon Group event.
One Tamriel and battle leveling grants ZOS a clean slate for difficulty balance, and I would hate to see that opportunity wasted.

The current battle leveling might be too punishing for new players, so there would have to be some kind of an additional boost for players under level 10, but after that, I believe the player should learn and follow the basic game mechanics to progress in the world.
This means bashing casting monsters to prevent a dangerous spell, keeping out of red, dodge rolling or blocking heavy attacks, then using heavy attacks themselves to knock down a concussed enemy.
These are some of the game mechanics that ALL players should know by heart, and use them daily while playing ESO.

Also, bump the difficulty of world bosses and Public dungeons.
Wrothgar is a masterpiece in terms of world monster difficulty, World boss difficulty and public dungeon difficulty, it should serve as an example.
Make every world boss worthy of the achievement tied to killing it.

Honestly, I would not mind bumping the world monster difficulty even higher than the current battle leveled equivalent, but I guess it is good enough.

The current game difficulty has a serious gap that tends to hit new people really hard once they reach lvl 50.
The experience of entering a veteran dungeon for the first time can be overwhelming.

One Tamriel and battle leveling should serve to smoothen the difficulty curve, and prepare new players for every endgame content.

Basically you are saying. Get rid of all casuals and take all of the actual fun out of the game with the mob difficulty.

Oh well. I've been a subscriber since release, but, if they're really going to take all the actual "fun" out of the game for people who just want to play it and not be punished with the difficulty then ciao. I'm sure they don't need my $15 a month.

It is people like you why "casual" is used as a derogatory term.

Learning the basic game mechanics has nothing to do with being casual.

I know the basics and I am not a poor player, but I refuse to participate in the inane and unbalanced "group" activities and kowtow to the "build to the mold" mob that rules the game.

I play to enjoy, not to be punished.

ESO is just turning in to another pointless and worthless MMO that I will never play again.

It's a good thing that the genre is dieing.

Subscription cancelled today. I doubt I'll ever pick it up again.

Too bad. It had potential.

But, as I said. ZoS doesn't care in the least if the lose a subscriber, since, 99% of you are too cheap to subscribe in the first place.

Once again, you are contributing to the generalization of casual and hardcore gamers.

Yes, I consider myself a hardcore gamer.
Does that mean I am cheap by default?
I have subscribed for months before the game was even B2P, followed by additional months once it was.
I have Imperial City bought, Orsinium bought, and Shadows of the Hist bought. I have played other DLCs while bing ESO+, but I refuse to support TG and DB by buying them since I believe these two DLCs are utter crap (apart from MoL).
I COULD buy them if I wanted to, since I have tons of Crowns spared from my subscriptions.

Now then, how would YOU like to break down your payment history?

As I said, the difficulty of the game should have nothing to do with someone being casual or not.
Arguing that you bring in more revenue than hard core gamers is childish and utterly untrue, since the majority of hardcore gamers own every single DLC the developers spit out.

Lysette · August 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

My idea is leave the starter-island as they are - when people come from those to the mainland, they have about level 6-8 and that can then be battle-leveled, it will be hard for them at times, but it is doable with some care and caution. At that time they have as well a bar full with abilities and can actually fight something what is not just a joke.

That would be one way to do it, but then that is contrary to what they are trying to achieve.
ZOS is trying to make the whole of Tamriel available to all players as soon as they leave the Wailing Prison.

I believe a boost to players under level 10 would be a more practical solution.

That is already happening - my stats are often higher than those from higher level players, because there is a boost of stats in place in DLC zones, when you are really low level - -the problem is more, that new players have a nearly empty ability bar - well they might have 2 class abilities slotted but nothing for their weapon due to lack of skill points or skill locked, if they skipped.

Just imagine you would have to kill a DLC mob with just having strife and teleport strike on your bar as a NB - you are basically screwed.

I don't have to imagine, I have entered Wrothgar with my newly made lvl 3 nightblade, no CPs invested.
I agree it is a bit much in terms of difficulty, that is why I am proposing an additional boost to players under level 10.

That being said, the first few levels are gained rather fast, as well as the skills themselves.
ZOS already made the first skill in every class tree have the most impact.
Every class can unlock one of two damaging abilities with their very first skill point. Some of those skills stay as the best spammable single target skills or executes for the rest of the game (Puncturing strikes, Assassin's Blade, Strife, Crystal Shard, Mage's Fury).
Also worth noting that Templars can unlock their Rushed Ceremony with the first skill point.

yes, that is why I said, once they are level 6-8 is is not a big problem anymore with some care and caution and then really fun to play - I really like the battle-leveled zones a lot. And because this came up above, I am a casual player myself - I progress slowly but constantly with my 12 characters - I actually think that battle-leveled is much more viable than normal zones for most players - newbies should have a boost though - maybe to weapon damage, because those do really not have much of an impact at all in a battle-leveled zone.

Dubhliam · August 2016

To @DenMoria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pL4AzGBAsU

ThePaleItalian · August 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

There are many threads opened in the past week, mostly by people that are concerned about overcrowding and server performance.

While I do expect some hiccups when OT goes live, I don't share the concerns of those people, server capabilities will remain the same, the same number of people will be handled, simply in different zone shards.
Currently there are 3 types of shards for each zone - AD, EP and DC, each of which can get another copy when it gets overcrowded.
After OT, there will be only one type of shard for each zone, where all alliances are present, and it also will be copied multiple times to accommodate as much players as needed.

Great, now that we have that covered, I'd like to point out on a problematic that bugs me for a long time in ESO:
Open world monster difficulty.

I am one of the players that played ESO when it was challenging, when you could not solo a world boss, let alone a Public dungeon Group event.
One Tamriel and battle leveling grants ZOS a clean slate for difficulty balance, and I would hate to see that opportunity wasted.

The current battle leveling might be too punishing for new players, so there would have to be some kind of an additional boost for players under level 10, but after that, I believe the player should learn and follow the basic game mechanics to progress in the world.
This means bashing casting monsters to prevent a dangerous spell, keeping out of red, dodge rolling or blocking heavy attacks, then using heavy attacks themselves to knock down a concussed enemy.
These are some of the game mechanics that ALL players should know by heart, and use them daily while playing ESO.

Also, bump the difficulty of world bosses and Public dungeons.
Wrothgar is a masterpiece in terms of world monster difficulty, World boss difficulty and public dungeon difficulty, it should serve as an example.
Make every world boss worthy of the achievement tied to killing it.

Honestly, I would not mind bumping the world monster difficulty even higher than the current battle leveled equivalent, but I guess it is good enough.

The current game difficulty has a serious gap that tends to hit new people really hard once they reach lvl 50.
The experience of entering a veteran dungeon for the first time can be overwhelming.

One Tamriel and battle leveling should serve to smoothen the difficulty curve, and prepare new players for every endgame content.

Basically you are saying. Get rid of all casuals and take all of the actual fun out of the game with the mob difficulty.

Oh well. I've been a subscriber since release, but, if they're really going to take all the actual "fun" out of the game for people who just want to play it and not be punished with the difficulty then ciao. I'm sure they don't need my $15 a month.

It is people like you why "casual" is used as a derogatory term.

Learning the basic game mechanics has nothing to do with being casual.

I know the basics and I am not a poor player, but I refuse to participate in the inane and unbalanced "group" activities and kowtow to the "build to the mold" mob that rules the game.

I play to enjoy, not to be punished.

ESO is just turning in to another pointless and worthless MMO that I will never play again.

It's a good thing that the genre is dieing.

Subscription cancelled today. I doubt I'll ever pick it up again.

Too bad. It had potential.

But, as I said. ZoS doesn't care in the least if the lose a subscriber, since, 99% of you are too cheap to subscribe in the first place.

I am glad you left the game. Please don't come back and take your toxic attitude with you.I have been subbed since the start on PC and moved to PS4.

World bosses should be BOSSES. I am not saying that a max level gear player shouldn't be able to take them out in the lower levels, but when this game first started it was awesome to see 4 or 5 players taking a world boss on.

Having players face difficult bosses and mechanics makes them a better player down the road. You do want a challenge? You just want to face roll everything? then go play some single player game and turn the difficult to super easy.

Challenging players and teaching them mechanics makes them better players in the long run and helps with trials and dungeons.

I would rather get frustrated and learn things while playing instead of thinking how "easy" this game is and then get destroyed in higher level content. Wrothgar had it right, those world bosses were a blast and you felt like you earned something by beating those bosses.

Casuals is a term that gets thrown around way to much. What do you think a casual is? Hours played? Skill? Are they subbed? Please tell me, stop being an entitled player that thinks if the entire game does fit exactly what you want then its trash or pointless.

I hope this game continues to thrive and more and more players begin to play it. Thankfully you will not.

Cheers!!

Kendaric · August 2016

Quite frankly, I like the difficulty (or lack thereof) we currently have.
I've been around since the beta weekends and I remember how Doshia and Molag Bal were back then. I have no interest whatsoever to go back to that difficulty (or anything even closely resembling it).
If ZOS were to increase difficulty of world content, I can safely say I'd stop playing ESO. Dungeons and trials are a different thing, they can be hard as hell and I don't mind as I can ignore them.

Lysette · August 2016

It is basically like in that video posted - casual vs. core - I am casual player, but not because I want all totally easy, but because I do not have as much time as I used to have when I was still a student. I do not want the game to be simple, I like complex mechanics (would I otherwise be playing EVE since 2008?) and having to figure out how things work. Still, it should be enjoyable even for someone who has not that much time to play - but as well be interesting to play, and this is not given if it is just a walk in the park. Content should be doable and if you are caring for having decent gear, use good food and potions, it should be possible to do most of the soloable content on the first try, if you do not mess up and keep standing in red. I am not for an fps-like experience, where you die over and over again until you'll eventually make it - that is not an rpg-style like this. ESO should be playable like an RPG, not too easy but as well not too hard - at least not before becoming a veteran.

Elsonso · August 2016

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

World bosses should be BOSSES. I am not saying that a max level gear player shouldn't be able to take them out in the lower levels, but when this game first started it was awesome to see 4 or 5 players taking a world boss on.

Having players face difficult bosses and mechanics makes them a better player down the road. You do want a challenge? You just want to face roll everything? then go play some single player game and turn the difficult to super easy.

I think so, too. I am not certain whether the bosses are easier, I am better, or Champion Points have really tipped the balance, but I don't fear the bosses like I used to. My magicka sorc was able to do all of the solo-able content in Lost City of the Na-Totambu at level 35. Now, I realize that this is not a world boss, but aren't these dungeons supposed to be HARD?

Later, I went into Razak's Wheel to get the skyshard, this time below level. I got the skyshard but the dungeon was so easy I decided to go back out and grab one of the quests. I ended up killing Major Carina and Spymaster Geta (twice), and I solo'ed Mzanchndalft because I got too close. I had never seen that flesh atronach before, so I accidentally triggered that one inspecting the body and had to kill it, and lady who was hiding there. I got the group achievement for that, but I am not sure if anyone else helped me. There was another person there in the room.

Bottom line is that, at least for a CP360 dual pet magicka sorc that just hit Level 40, this game is pretty easy. I am in Coldharbour now, five levels BELOW the monsters I am killing. It's so easy.

ThePaleItalian · August 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

World bosses should be BOSSES. I am not saying that a max level gear player shouldn't be able to take them out in the lower levels, but when this game first started it was awesome to see 4 or 5 players taking a world boss on.

Having players face difficult bosses and mechanics makes them a better player down the road. You do want a challenge? You just want to face roll everything? then go play some single player game and turn the difficult to super easy.

I think so, too. I am not certain whether the bosses are easier, I am better, or Champion Points have really tipped the balance, but I don't fear the bosses like I used to. My magicka sorc was able to do all of the solo-able content in Lost City of the Na-Totambu at level 35. Now, I realize that this is not a world boss, but aren't these dungeons supposed to be HARD?

Later, I went into Razak's Wheel to get the skyshard, this time below level. I got the skyshard but the dungeon was so easy I decided to go back out and grab one of the quests. I ended up killing Major Carina and Spymaster Geta (twice), and I solo'ed Mzanchndalft because I got too close. I had never seen that flesh atronach before, so I accidentally triggered that one inspecting the body and had to kill it, and lady who was hiding there. I got the group achievement for that, but I am not sure if anyone else helped me. There was another person there in the room.

Bottom line is that, at least for a CP360 dual pet magicka sorc that just hit Level 40, this game is pretty easy. I am in Coldharbour now, five levels BELOW the monsters I am killing. It's so easy.

I really think the CP gives a huge boost to new toons. I am only 400 CP. But putting all those points into a fresh lvl 1 toon pretty has you 1 or 2 shotting everything. Which I get and understand and its nice to have everything account based like that. I would hate to grind for max CP on all my guys.

But I saw some hope in the new DLC world bosses. Its nice to run into group waiting for more people to take it down.Or seeing the poor soul who runs into the fight for the first time and just gets blasted and then the "Wanna join a group" pops up.

I do not want the game to be very challenging, but I would like to see a little more difficulty on somethings. I hated harvesters the first time I fought them, died so many times, now they are a pushover. Which is nice to feel that way when your character is maxed, I just don't want it my entire play through.

oddavi · August 2016

they should introduce a difficulty slider.
separate it in three tiers, increase difficulty/gold/xp for each superior tier
there was already three versions of each zones anyway so they could adapt them

Ghost-Shot · August 2016

Kendaric wrote: »

Quite frankly, I like the difficulty (or lack thereof) we currently have.
I've been around since the beta weekends and I remember how Doshia and Molag Bal were back then. I have no interest whatsoever to go back to that difficulty (or anything even closely resembling it).
If ZOS were to increase difficulty of world content, I can safely say I'd stop playing ESO. Dungeons and trials are a different thing, they can be hard as hell and I don't mind as I can ignore them.

Bye Felicia

schnooty · August 2016

[/quote]

I think so, too. I am not certain whether the bosses are easier, I am better, or Champion Points have really tipped the balance, but I don't fear the bosses like I used to. My magicka sorc was able to do all of the solo-able content in Lost City of the Na-Totambu at level 35. Now, I realize that this is not a world boss, but aren't these dungeons supposed to be HARD?

Later, I went into Razak's Wheel to get the skyshard, this time below level. I got the skyshard but the dungeon was so easy I decided to go back out and grab one of the quests. I ended up killing Major Carina and Spymaster Geta (twice), and I solo'ed Mzanchndalft because I got too close. I had never seen that flesh atronach before, so I accidentally triggered that one inspecting the body and had to kill it, and lady who was hiding there. I got the group achievement for that, but I am not sure if anyone else helped me. There was another person there in the room.

Bottom line is that, at least for a CP360 dual pet magicka sorc that just hit Level 40, this game is pretty easy. I am in Coldharbour now, five levels BELOW the monsters I am killing. It's so easy.

[/quote]

I really think the CP gives a huge boost to new toons. I am only 400 CP. But putting all those points into a fresh lvl 1 toon pretty has you 1 or 2 shotting everything. Which I get and understand and its nice to have everything account based like that. I would hate to grind for max CP on all my guys.

But I saw some hope in the new DLC world bosses. Its nice to run into group waiting for more people to take it down.Or seeing the poor soul who runs into the fight for the first time and just gets blasted and then the "Wanna join a group" pops up.

I do not want the game to be very challenging, but I would like to see a little more difficulty on somethings. I hated harvesters the first time I fought them, died so many times, now they are a pushover. Which is nice to feel that way when your character is maxed, I just don't want it my entire play through. [/quote]

And this is why CP is a really bad idea. Better to just add more levels and higher level content. Also, if everything scales, why bother having levels at all?

ADarklore · August 2016

schnooty wrote: »

I think so, too. I am not certain whether the bosses are easier, I am better, or Champion Points have really tipped the balance, but I don't fear the bosses like I used to. My magicka sorc was able to do all of the solo-able content in Lost City of the Na-Totambu at level 35. Now, I realize that this is not a world boss, but aren't these dungeons supposed to be HARD?

Later, I went into Razak's Wheel to get the skyshard, this time below level. I got the skyshard but the dungeon was so easy I decided to go back out and grab one of the quests. I ended up killing Major Carina and Spymaster Geta (twice), and I solo'ed Mzanchndalft because I got too close. I had never seen that flesh atronach before, so I accidentally triggered that one inspecting the body and had to kill it, and lady who was hiding there. I got the group achievement for that, but I am not sure if anyone else helped me. There was another person there in the room.

Bottom line is that, at least for a CP360 dual pet magicka sorc that just hit Level 40, this game is pretty easy. I am in Coldharbour now, five levels BELOW the monsters I am killing. It's so easy.

I really think the CP gives a huge boost to new toons. I am only 400 CP. But putting all those points into a fresh lvl 1 toon pretty has you 1 or 2 shotting everything. Which I get and understand and its nice to have everything account based like that. I would hate to grind for max CP on all my guys.

But I saw some hope in the new DLC world bosses. Its nice to run into group waiting for more people to take it down.Or seeing the poor soul who runs into the fight for the first time and just gets blasted and then the "Wanna join a group" pops up.

I do not want the game to be very challenging, but I would like to see a little more difficulty on somethings. I hated harvesters the first time I fought them, died so many times, now they are a pushover. Which is nice to feel that way when your character is maxed, I just don't want it my entire play through.

And this is why CP is a really bad idea. Better to just add more levels and higher level content. Also, if everything scales, why bother having levels at all?

But there is something you can do about CP... NOT USE THEM... novel idea I know, and it involves personal responsibility. For some people I know it's tough, I see it in gaming all the time... "please take xx out of the game because it is too tempting to use". If it's a CHOICE, then don't complain because you make the CHOICE to utilize something... and CP is completely all CHOICE. If you want something more difficult, then don't put points into CP.

As for people wanting more difficulty... this is how YOU want to play, this is what YOU enjoy... but this game has to appeal to an extremely large population, so just because you enjoy something doesn't mean the vast majority enjoy it too. As you've no doubt seen over time, ZOS has had to reduce difficulty a lot more frequently than increase it. Their data mining information shows how many people successfully complete something (world boss, dungeon boss, etc), and how many fail (die) trying... if they see too many people dying, they will adjust the difficulty lower; they have even said as much. Not everyone likes a 'challenge', not everyone wants to keep running head-on into wall until they smash through it, some people just want to play the game for FUN with their limited time.

mlstevens42_ESO · August 2016

This is not a matter of whether I believe the game is to easy or to hard.

One has to ask this ...by whose standard are we asking the difficulty to be set? By the elite players for who almost every thing in this game and many others is so easy they almost fall asleep doing them...or for those that just want to live in a different world or time...

Not every one is looking for a huge challenge. Many just want to chill.

Regardless of how I might feel about the matter all of them are potential customers for zos. If they wish to keep the majority of their customers they will have to do what is best for the majority.

Cazic · August 2016

Totally agree. Open world mobs are way too easy right now. Make this part of the game.mkre challenging with OT!

Lysette · August 2016

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

This is not a matter of whether I believe the game is to easy or to hard.

One has to ask this ...by whose standard are we asking the difficulty to be set? By the elite players for who almost every thing in this game and many others is so easy they almost fall asleep doing them...or for those that just want to live in a different world or time...

Not every one is looking for a huge challenge. Many just want to chill.

Regardless of how I might feel about the matter all of them are potential customers for zos. If they wish to keep the majority of their customers they will have to do what is best for the majority.

It is meant to be an RPG - and an RPG is never really challenging - it has some difficulty, but not too much, because combat is not the main focus of an RPG - it is there, but it is just a spice to the main menu, which is story-driven content, exploration of a rich game world and role playing a character in it. It is not meant to be like an fps game, where challenging content is key.

Cazic · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

This is not a matter of whether I believe the game is to easy or to hard.

One has to ask this ...by whose standard are we asking the difficulty to be set? By the elite players for who almost every thing in this game and many others is so easy they almost fall asleep doing them...or for those that just want to live in a different world or time...

Not every one is looking for a huge challenge. Many just want to chill.

Regardless of how I might feel about the matter all of them are potential customers for zos. If they wish to keep the majority of their customers they will have to do what is best for the majority.

It is meant to be an RPG - and an RPG is never really challenging - it has some difficulty, but not too much, because combat is not the main focus of an RPG - it is there, but it is just a spice to the main menu, which is story-driven content, exploration of a rich game world and role playing a character in it. It is not meant to be like an fps game, where challenging content is key.

For me it's not even all about the challenge. Its about feeling like enemies, beasts or monsters in the game have realistic power and toughness for what or who they are.

It doesn't always need to be challenging, but it needs to feel genuine. If I choose to go attack a giant mammoth that is at least 20 times my size, it should pose some threat. Or if I choose to attack 5+ bandits at s time, I should feel as if I'm outnumbered.

Those are just two quick examples of situations where the game really falls flat right now. With zone level restrictions being removed, ZOS really does have an opportunity to improve in this area.

mlstevens42_ESO · August 2016

I know it is an rpg...Challenge though is based more on the individual player.

A challenge for me would kill many...for example I can run the orsinium public dungeons alone kill the group boss alone. World bosses (save last few dlc's) and dolmans alone. Even though I do not consider myself fantastic by any stretch. Should then everything be scaled to my level of play?

For some the four mans can be done with three sometimes even vet dungeons done this way. Should it be scaled then to their expertise when some can not even do them with four and on normal?

Some have no issues with vet maelstrom arena have it on farm mode.....others well......

What I am saying is for some even the most challenging things in the game are fairly easy.

Not everyone can play the game in the same way. Further even if some can they may not want to. So that has to be weighed against the desires of some for more challenge.

Dubhliam · August 2016

While I cannot say what would be the most comfortable level to bump the difficulty to, what I can say is that the game is currently too easy.

So much easy that people don't have a clue about basic game mechanics.
Remember Primate Artorius?
There were sooooo many whine threads opened on the forum shortly after DB came live, simply because people had no idea they should break free from a stun effect.

Seriously, people.
If you can play the game without utilizing the most basic game mechanics, something should be changed.

Someone mentioned Doshia. People are always quick to point out that one fight.
Yes, Doshia was hard.
It was a giant spike in difficulty, and obviously not balanced. ZOS fixed that. It wasn't intended for one single boss to be three times as hard as anything else the player experienced up until that point.

The whole point with balancing difficulty is to smoothen the progress/difficulty curve.
Today we still have large spiked in difficulty when new players enter group dungeons and hit a brick wall.

One way ZOS could incentivise players to become better in combat is to add bonus quest objectives that grant set item rewards.
Just like TG and DB storylines have.
This gives the developers room to make rather easy content, but provide the players with a "reality check" where they can evaluate the true strength of their build and skill, without blocking them from progress.

Totalitarian · August 2016

IMO, ZOS has done a good job at creating both hard and easy content as of late.

We have normal Maelstrom Arena, and vet mode, and while vet mode is horrifically stressful at first, normal mode is easy. It caters to both skilled and less skilled players.

Same goes with the revamped trials, or the new dungeons in Shadows of the Hist. The normal modes provide relatively easy, straightforward gameplay, while the veteran versions cater to better players.

Of course, this has caused a sizable discrepancy in difficulty between the two modes.

Lysette · August 2016

Cazic wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

This is not a matter of whether I believe the game is to easy or to hard.

One has to ask this ...by whose standard are we asking the difficulty to be set? By the elite players for who almost every thing in this game and many others is so easy they almost fall asleep doing them...or for those that just want to live in a different world or time...

Not every one is looking for a huge challenge. Many just want to chill.

Regardless of how I might feel about the matter all of them are potential customers for zos. If they wish to keep the majority of their customers they will have to do what is best for the majority.

It is meant to be an RPG - and an RPG is never really challenging - it has some difficulty, but not too much, because combat is not the main focus of an RPG - it is there, but it is just a spice to the main menu, which is story-driven content, exploration of a rich game world and role playing a character in it. It is not meant to be like an fps game, where challenging content is key.

For me it's not even all about the challenge. Its about feeling like enemies, beasts or monsters in the game have realistic power and toughness for what or who they are.

It doesn't always need to be challenging, but it needs to feel genuine. If I choose to go attack a giant mammoth that is at least 20 times my size, it should pose some threat. Or if I choose to attack 5+ bandits at s time, I should feel as if I'm outnumbered.

Those are just two quick examples of situations where the game really falls flat right now. With zone level restrictions being removed, ZOS really does have an opportunity to improve in this area.

Yes, I always found that ESO has far too many AoE effects, which take away from an "outnnumbered" feeling and are basically counter-productive, because if those would be much less, people would ask a friend to help them more often. Well and these world bosses, creatures which are like 20 stories taller than you are - pretty much ridiculous to even think to fight them - but this is how fantasy games are - they are not meant to be realistic, because the fight would be over in an instant if they would.