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Black Rose is OP
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ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Black Rose was a good set and was balanced when Imperial City came out. Its now over-performing with the changes to heavy Armour.
By balanced you mean "nobody was using the set" right? lol anything you could did with BR, you could did it better with any medium armor set, there was no point in using it.2 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭10/10 forum satire OPDaggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||0 -
manny254✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What is making this set feel strong is the game mechanics around it, and not the set it self. Stamina has been over buffed since last patch. For instance dawnbreaker is just too strong. I certainly found/find the skill to be fun, but it does too much for it's cost. I actually find that is so powerful that it becomes boring to use open world. I love my templar, but I personally feel that major mending + vigor over performs (I am not saying remove it, but it could be toned down a bit). Redguard is still too powerful imo on a class with major mending. This is essentially because it allows you to stack damage and sustain from stamina. People will now just say get a race change, but personally I would prefer to have ZoS balance the game. Not to mention there is no equivalently powerful magicka race.
For the black rose set the only change I would like to see is one of the stamina bonuses becoming max magicka. The set is supposed to be viable for both stam and magicka, but this kind of turns magicka users away. On another note I personally would like to see snares balanced, and shuffle completely replaced with something else. I would personally leave blur, but make a morph that costs stamina. This would make dodge a unique part of NB, and help make the classes feel more diverse.- Mojican10 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What is making this set feel strong is the game mechanics around it, and not the set it self. Stamina has been over buffed since last patch. For instance dawnbreaker is just too strong.
For the black rose set the only change I would like to see is one of the stamina bonuses becoming max magicka.
I was looking at that yesterday. Dawnbreaker had 3k more damage on the tooltip than meteor, which costs twice as much, and gives you a big sign to start blocking. Its my best low cost option for my mDK and I'd hate to see it go but yeah, it's really off balance in comparison.
I would love to see one of the stamina bonuses become magicka. I'm vested in it, but I'd still like to see it. I think that was the best option from the OP.Retired.
Nord mDK0 -
Ryuho✭✭✭✭What is making this set feel strong is the game mechanics around it, and not the set it self. Stamina has been over buffed since last patch. For instance dawnbreaker is just too strong. I certainly found/find the skill to be fun, but it does too much for it's cost. I actually find that is so powerful that it becomes boring to use open world. I love my templar, but I personally feel that major mending + vigor over performs (I am not saying remove it, but it could be toned down a bit). Redguard is still too powerful imo on a class with major mending. This is essentially because it allows you to stack damage and sustain from stamina. People will now just say get a race change, but personally I would prefer to have ZoS balance the game. Not to mention there is no equivalently powerful magicka race.
For the black rose set the only change I would like to see is one of the stamina bonuses becoming max magicka. The set is supposed to be viable for both stam and magicka, but this kind of turns magicka users away. On another note I personally would like to see snares balanced, and shuffle completely replaced with something else. I would personally leave blur, but make a morph that costs stamina. This would make dodge a unique part of NB, and help make the classes feel more diverse.
Yes agree. Change one of the stamina bonuses to magicka, so at least magicka tanks would be able to use this set. Is this set OP? Op maybe not, but really strong, and one of the best options for stamina tank dps. Also tank dps WTF!!! To be honest, I can't understand why tanks deal dmg in pvp, u are *** tnak u should just tank ppls not deal dmg.. Never thought I would say that but at least when perma blocking was around, tanks didn't deal any dmg, they were walking fortreses.. Now we have walking fortreses which deal insane dmg it's broken af..The Farron family team (EU)
sorcerer - Rubeus Farron AR31
templar - Selene Farron AR27
nightblade - Ryuho Farron AR25
stamplar - Nura Farron AR10
stamsorcerer - Kitty Farron AR14 (adopted member)
DK - Ryu Farron AR17
RETIRED
CU - next mmo0 -
Fasoo✭✭✭✭ANYONE THAT HAS BEEF WITH SRIBES HAS BEEF WITH ME
EDIT: In complete seriousness. Whether it be black Rose, heavy armor, a combination of both, etc. a good heavy armor stamina build can outperform even the highest dmg output Magicka builds, and it's not close. The very day I made my stamina sorcerer I was able to beat all Magicka builds with ease, not so much due to personal skill but more so due to how my gear was having me overperform. Anyone that thinks Magicka has enough damage/sustain to fight a black rose user is delusional. You have no argument to make. You are just plain wrong. If you think differently pm me @Faso and you can duel my Stam classes with a mag build.
If black rose Stam builds were a 10 on a 1-10 scale I'd rate Magicka Sorc a 6 , a magplar a 7, with the bottom feeder specs of mag DK and magblade at 4 or 5. The discrepancy is enormous. Arenas and BG's will never make it in the game in this state. This is a huge fundamental problem with eso. Any player can slap on black rose with blood spawn, with malubeth, with whatever they please, and even run vitality pots, and still outperform a Magicka build , Magicka builds simply cannot put enough damage on those types of builds.
Edited by Fasoo on August 9, 2016 1:42PM4 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭I've bought it yesterday to use on magplar or mdk or nb(still deciding), what's wrong with me?0
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Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If black rose Stam builds were a 10 on a 1-10 scale I'd rate Magicka Sorc a 6 , a magplar a 7, with the bottom feeder specs of mag DK and magblade at 4 or 5. The discrepancy is enormous. Arenas and BG's will never make it in the game in this state. This is a huge fundamental problem with eso. Any player can slap on black rose with blood spawn, with malubeth, with whatever they please, and even run vitality pots, and still outperform a Magicka build , Magicka builds simply cannot put enough damage on those types of builds.
I don't disagree with anything you just said, that is the way it feels in general between magicka and stamina. But I wonder why blackrose is specifically a problem. If I dueled you as a mDK the first difference would be our penetration. You would have 20% generic physical penetration from maul/mace along with sharpened I would have only a sharpened weapon. Which means my Black Rose has 0 armor and yours has most of it. If used a Destro staff I would only have penetration for Destro abilities rip DK. If I used light armor I would get a little penetration, 4884, but I would have to use active defenses such as shields which lower my dps.
...I think I'm starting to see the picture here. It's complex as heck and not immediately obvious but I see it now from imagining a duel with you. Taking Stam, which is already inherently broken, and giving it the passive defenses and healing of HA, with a straight stam dps set with bonus sustain would be monstrous.
I think the best course would be to change the stamina stat to magicka, at least one anyway. You guys might want to watch the wording though it's really confusing to see OP because the set is not unusual at face value. It's the gestalt effect that makes for an OP situation. When you hear OP you think nerf, and shifting stam to magicka isn't a nerf per say, but a change in direction.
Where would you place stamina build vs stamina build with BR?Edited by Armitas on August 9, 2016 2:14PMRetired.
Nord mDK2 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really don't think it's OP (even though I use it). I think magicka builds are just salty in general and think their focus should be directed at something other than Black Rose.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭I really don't think it's OP (even though I use it). I think magicka builds are just salty in general and think their focus should be directed at something other than Black Rose.
It doesn't matter what magic builds think. When a set becomes so good that it out weighs every other stamina set for PvP, that's when you know it's an issue. If you don't use it you are gimping yourself. That limits stamina builds down to yet another BIS item set.1 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Great every one is back at "nerf tanks" ............. Fine then nerf hundings rage, laws of Julionos, seducer, and all those wonderful DPS sets.....
Problem with Black Rose is that mostly people that are using it on PvP are tough like a tank but also doing dmg like DD and have resource managment and selfhealing like healer.
Then blame Wronel he is the one who thought tanks needed a DPS boost he's he one who made thses changes he's the one who made the game horrbily un-balanced
Thing is nothing is unbalanced when they are viable for everyone... Anyone can run heavy armor... Everyone can run heavy armor. That's the definition of balance.
Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.1 -
Fasoo✭✭✭✭If black rose Stam builds were a 10 on a 1-10 scale I'd rate Magicka Sorc a 6 , a magplar a 7, with the bottom feeder specs of mag DK and magblade at 4 or 5. The discrepancy is enormous. Arenas and BG's will never make it in the game in this state. This is a huge fundamental problem with eso. Any player can slap on black rose with blood spawn, with malubeth, with whatever they please, and even run vitality pots, and still outperform a Magicka build , Magicka builds simply cannot put enough damage on those types of builds.
I don't disagree with anything you just said, that is the way it feels in general between magicka and stamina. But I wonder why blackrose is specifically a problem. If I dueled you as a mDK the first difference would be our penetration. You would have 20% generic physical penetration from maul/mace along with sharpened I would have only a sharpened weapon. Which means my Black Rose has 0 armor and yours has most of it. If used a Destro staff I would only have penetration for Destro abilities rip DK. If I used light armor I would get a little penetration, 4884, but I would have to use active defenses such as shields which lower my dps.
...I think I'm starting to see the picture here. It's complex as heck and not immediately obvious but I see it now from imagining a duel with you. Taking Stam, which is already inherently broken, and giving it the passive defenses and healing of HA, with a straight stam dps set with bonus sustain would be monstrous.
I think the best course would be to change the stamina stat to magicka, at least one anyway. You guys might want to watch the wording though it's really confusing to see OP because the set is not unusual at face value. It's the gestalt effect that makes for an OP situation. When you hear OP you think nerf, and shifting stam to magicka isn't a nerf per say, but a change in direction.
Where would you place stamina build vs stamina build with BR?
Id say 8 to 10. Heavy really is essential. I think a medium armor Stam build still has similar dmg and can dodge too but a lot less defense and regen. And usually the way it works is heavy armor can get more Stam and more wp dmg just through the wrath passive and not having to build regen at all due to constitution. I use 600 regen on my Stam Sorc /Stamplar/StamNb
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arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Nerf every set over-performing in duels until there is many competitive options. The reason i agree with SRIBES is because in a 1v1 situation this set far exceeds any other heavy set.
People are mentioning this set got nerfed in DB dlc but fail to consider the constitution passive was buffed by well over what Black Rose was reduced by on DB (the reason for the nerf in the first place). Black Rose was a good set and was balanced when Imperial City came out. Its now over-performing with the changes to heavy Armour.
Reduce the bonus to constitution or reduce the weapon damage. Before, heavy Armour granted no increase to damage like it does now. The additional damage and constitution buffs to heavy Armour make Black Rose over the top compared to when it released in Imperial City dlc.
Thank you for stepping up. We need more competent players like you who know what is over-performing who also speak up about them for balance purposes. @SRIBES
As hyped as I am for battlegrounds and dueling, this game currently is being balanced around large group PVP, not small group or 1v1. Therefore, we shouldn't be nerfing something just because it overperforms in a 1v1.
Edited by arkansas_ESO on August 9, 2016 2:30PMＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/173 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really don't think it's OP (even though I use it). I think magicka builds are just salty in general and think their focus should be directed at something other than Black Rose.
It doesn't matter what magic builds think. When a set becomes so good that it out weighs every other stamina set for PvP, that's when you know it's an issue. If you don't use it you are gimping yourself. That limits stamina builds down to yet another BIS item set.
I just don't think it is the end-all be-all set for stamina users. There are plenty of other sets being put to use at a high level. Black Rose gives me a bonus of about 300 stam/magicka regen if you're being hit. Compared to something as standard as hundings, we're trading 150 weapon dmg for the chance to get 300 stam/magicka regen. Nothing about that makes it seem ridiculous. There always has to be a best set out there. I don't think Black Rose pulls away from other sets enough to warrant an adjustment, especially since it is armor only.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points2 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am not seeing a issue if black rose is indeed bis then get it. When the game first launched magic furnace, soul shine, warlock, seducer were the best you could run on a dk everyone ran it. Later it was martial knowledge now Julianos for the most spell damage. I see the broken part is that there is one good set and not 20. To me my operational definition of balance is easy to obtain and anyone can use it. From my perspective it is balanced. Out of all the armor sets in the game how come most of us only use a few?
Anyone can use heavy armor and anyone can use get or use black rose. It's defaults are health glyphs for each piece. Change them to suit your play style. I just think ppl don't like it because it doesn't fit into their personal build or play style and don't want others to run it. They don't want anyone having a semblance of an advantage over them, real or perceived.
I just tanked SO, HR, and AA last night did not use black rose you will get your you know what pushed in using five inpen black rose. I know this because I bought a set and was foolish enough to try it. The constitution passive does not offset the damage mitigation of other HA armor sets. I bring this into my post as I believe the maelstrom weapons, weapon damage enchants on jewelry, 40 k Stam, new weapon damage glyphs and agility jewelry have a much bigger impact on damage and the overall meta than heavy armor or black rose specifically.Edited by DHale on August 9, 2016 2:54PMSorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.5 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭
What do you mean for the chance to get back stats? It's guaranteed, on top of this you get weapon damage and you become tanky. I think you are biased towards the set, my good friends that use the set even admit it's OP. @Fasoo can confirmI really don't think it's OP (even though I use it). I think magicka builds are just salty in general and think their focus should be directed at something other than Black Rose.
It doesn't matter what magic builds think. When a set becomes so good that it out weighs every other stamina set for PvP, that's when you know it's an issue. If you don't use it you are gimping yourself. That limits stamina builds down to yet another BIS item set.
I just don't think it is the end-all be-all set for stamina users. There are plenty of other sets being put to use at a high level. Black Rose gives me a bonus of about 300 stam/magicka regen if you're being hit. Compared to something as standard as hundings, we're trading 150 weapon dmg for the chance to get 300 stam/magicka regen. Nothing about that makes it seem ridiculous. There always has to be a best set out there. I don't think Black Rose pulls away from other sets enough to warrant an adjustment, especially since it is armor only.
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Fasoo✭✭✭✭
What do you mean for the chance to get back stats? It's guaranteed, on top of this you get weapon damage and you become tanky. I think you are biased towards the set, my good friends that use the set even admit it's OP. @Fasoo can confirmI really don't think it's OP (even though I use it). I think magicka builds are just salty in general and think their focus should be directed at something other than Black Rose.
It doesn't matter what magic builds think. When a set becomes so good that it out weighs every other stamina set for PvP, that's when you know it's an issue. If you don't use it you are gimping yourself. That limits stamina builds down to yet another BIS item set.
I just don't think it is the end-all be-all set for stamina users. There are plenty of other sets being put to use at a high level. Black Rose gives me a bonus of about 300 stam/magicka regen if you're being hit. Compared to something as standard as hundings, we're trading 150 weapon dmg for the chance to get 300 stam/magicka regen. Nothing about that makes it seem ridiculous. There always has to be a best set out there. I don't think Black Rose pulls away from other sets enough to warrant an adjustment, especially since it is armor only.
yeah I use it to stay competitive, but it is completely overpowered imo. it gives too much. I can kill any magicka build with it on my stam sorc and I am brand new to stam sorc and really stam in general. it is wear black rose or u r gimping yourself. it does take skill to use as the resources do have to be carefully managed but man does it overperform once you have a basic understanding of how to use your class with the set.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
What do you mean for the chance to get back stats? It's guaranteed, on top of this you get weapon damage and you become tanky. I think you are biased towards the set, my good friends that use the set even admit it's OP. @Fasoo can confirmI really don't think it's OP (even though I use it). I think magicka builds are just salty in general and think their focus should be directed at something other than Black Rose.
It doesn't matter what magic builds think. When a set becomes so good that it out weighs every other stamina set for PvP, that's when you know it's an issue. If you don't use it you are gimping yourself. That limits stamina builds down to yet another BIS item set.
I just don't think it is the end-all be-all set for stamina users. There are plenty of other sets being put to use at a high level. Black Rose gives me a bonus of about 300 stam/magicka regen if you're being hit. Compared to something as standard as hundings, we're trading 150 weapon dmg for the chance to get 300 stam/magicka regen. Nothing about that makes it seem ridiculous. There always has to be a best set out there. I don't think Black Rose pulls away from other sets enough to warrant an adjustment, especially since it is armor only.
What I mean by chance to get back stam/magicka regen is that you aren't always taking damage. That's a tradeoff that makes that potential 300 stam/magicka regen worse than straight up regen like amberplasm. What your friend thinks about Black Rose doesn't mean anything. The only thing that matters is what the actual benefits are of using the set compared to the alternatives. HP, Stamx2, 150 weapon dmg, and 300 stam/magicka regen that only activates when taking dmg isn't out of line with other sets available IMO, especially considering it limits your option being an armor only set. I'm trying to look at it objectively, but I do use the set currently, so who knows.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points4 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Great every one is back at "nerf tanks" ............. Fine then nerf hundings rage, laws of Julionos, seducer, and all those wonderful DPS sets.....
Problem with Black Rose is that mostly people that are using it on PvP are tough like a tank but also doing dmg like DD and have resource managment and selfhealing like healer.
Then blame Wronel he is the one who thought tanks needed a DPS boost he's he one who made thses changes he's the one who made the game horrbily un-balanced
Thing is nothing is unbalanced when they are viable for everyone... Anyone can run heavy armor... Everyone can run heavy armor. That's the definition of balance.
This works if you're trying to tell people to play the meta rather than complain about it. It doesn't mean there's areas that are a bit too strong or too weak in the game though. Balance will 100% never be achieved, but we can work towards it in the meantime. If you follow your definition of balance then ZOS should have scrapped heavy/medium armor and stam builds after the first month and focused entirely on bringing magicka classes in line with each other.1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭The 5 piece bonus does not seem all that OP. I mean, compare it to amberplasm.
With 7 heavy, you are getting back 1300 stamina/magicka every 4 seconds, if you get hit. Black rose increases this by 650.
650 resource return every 4 seconds is equal to 325 regen, but only if you are continually getting hit(and wear all-heavy). You also get 154 damage bonus.
The 5 piece amberplasm does slightly less - 300 regen - but then you get it always, not just when getting hit, so there are no missed ticks. You also are not limited to full heavy.
So basically, it is reliable 300 regen that is not limited by armor type against somewhat unreliable 325 regen that locks you into heavy with a moderate 154 dmg bonus attached.
The two 5-piece bonuses seem somewhat balanced to me (or at least there is no huge difference between them that would scream "OP" at me)
Because we should reward people for holding block and getting hit. The permablocking DK tank meta is a cancer on this game.
In fact, the PvP game doesnt even exist anymore. This has become a theme park MMO and dress up dolls online.
Nerf everything. EVERYTHING.3 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remove all the block cost reduction *** that is around now, and black rose won't be OP because it won't provide enought sustain to permablock. If block cost goes back to normal levels, blackrose builds won't be as effective as they are right now. Blackrose is not OP, it just synergies to well with the current meta, and overperforms any other heavy armor set (mostly because other heavy armor sets are crap, unless you want to be a zombie tank that can't kill ***)
We need to go back to what it used to be, holding block too much will drain your stam and get you killed, stop rewarding bad players with *** metas.
Magika builds underperforming is another discussion for another day.Edited by ManDraKE on August 9, 2016 4:44PM1 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭Remove all the block cost reduction *** that is around now, and black rose won't be OP because it won't provide enought sustain to permablock. If block cost goes back to normal levels, blackrose builds won't be as effective as they are right now. Blackrose is not OP, it just synergies to well with the current meta, and overperforms any other heavy armor set (mostly because other heavy armor sets are crap, unless you want to be a zombie tank that can't kill ***)
We need to go back to what it used to be, holding block too much will drain your stam and get you killed, stop rewarding bad players with *** metas.
Magika builds underperforming is another discussion for another day.
Black rose isn't overperforming just with block builds, most of the builds that are overperforming with it are actually 2h/bow builds.0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Now this is more than I can say for that Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus act Sribes and his gang. Sribes' Tamrielic career consists of him sitting at his PC, one screen with ESO, the other with Microsoft Excel 2003 Professional, and a notebook (with a single butterfly sticker on the top right corner of the cover). Sribes's goal is to theory craft and frankenstein together everything that is either malfunctioning or overpowered, and to "PvP" with that build and then laugh about it with his buddies. There is no doubt in my mind that Sribes and his buddies are the O'Doyle's from Adam Sandler's movie Billy Madison!
Confirmed0 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Now this is more than I can say for that Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus act Sribes and his gang. Sribes' Tamrielic career consists of him sitting at his PC, one screen with ESO, the other with Microsoft Excel 2003 Professional, and a notebook (with a single butterfly sticker on the top right corner of the cover). Sribes's goal is to theory craft and frankenstein together everything that is either malfunctioning or overpowered, and to "PvP" with that build and then laugh about it with his buddies. There is no doubt in my mind that Sribes and his buddies are the O'Doyle's from Adam Sandler's movie Billy Madison!
Confirmed
Exposed me1 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There will always be BIS gear. Trying to negate that fact is futile. Look at how much stronger willpower and agility are damage wise vs other sets. Look at how the maelstrom weapons, arguably BIS for most builds are behind the paywall of subbing or buying the DLC. Sure, BR is probably overpowered but it is the envision zos has for heavy armor. To be tankier but still be able to do damage. That was the intention. Was it the right one? Who knows.
All I know is, sets are found, used because they are best in slot and then nerfed because they are best in slot, and everyone has to go back to the drawing board and the cycle continues. Idk about you guys but I hate this cycle. I would much rather prefer things be op for their moment in the sun and release different and new sets intermttedly that draw us away from the old BIS to the new BIS. That way it's positive reinforcement and progression rather than negative.Edited by Jules on August 9, 2016 5:19PM6 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Black rose isn't overperforming just with block builds, most of the builds that are overperforming with it are actually 2h/bow builds.
how black rose overperform a medium ethernal hunt in a 2h/bow build? no way. In a 2h/bow build you are still better with medium armor sets.Edited by ManDraKE on August 9, 2016 5:20PM0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
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Traditional medium sets like hundings have its advantages (damage, movement through sprinting cost reducts, stam costs) and its disadvantages (lower health, squisher).
The new black rose has its advantages (higher health/tankier, decent damage and sustain still) and its disadvantages (loss of shuffle immunity- 5/1/1= 0.5 seconds of immunity, cost reducts and sprinting costs makes you slower)
From Stam Temp perspective, (and keep in mind I do run BR regardless,) the trade offs of mobility and costs make the set a viable set but not without its flaws. On stam sorc, well, if you aren't running it, idk why.Edited by Jules on August 9, 2016 5:43PM0