[Q] About 'Group Dungeons' - Queueing and/or not Q'ing

Rastoide · August 2016

Hi, i'd like to know all the details about dungeoning and all the features there are related to this.. Queueing and NOT queueing. Diferences, loot, rewards and what-not.

For example: i know you get undaunted XP AND a reward "from dungeons" as long as you join the "Normal Random Dungeon" queue - THIS also happens to LVL SCALE your group and the dungeon itself. Yet if I run a dungeon with ONE friend, i mean - old-school - we go DUO a dungeon. What happens then? Do i get Fighters XP and Undaunted XP? Rewards? Loot diferences?
So i'm looking at diferences between queueing and not queueing, in loot, and lvls, and i hope you got my point by now!

All you can tell me the best way you can put it, so this newbie gets the information the best way possible, pretty please?

wayfarerx · August 2016

If you queue then anyone below cp160 gets scaled up to cp160 but gear will drop for each player at their level.

If you walk into the dungeon or teleport in then the dungeon is scaled to the group leader and no players are scaled, gear drops at the level of the dungeon for everyone.

You DO NOT get undaunted XP from doing random dungeons UNLESS you happen to earn a dungeon achievement while in the dungeon or if you happen to get one of the daily pledges.

You DO NOT get fighters guild XP from any dungeon UNLESS you kill daedra or undead in the dungeon (which I admit is pretty common).

Rastoide · August 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

If you queue then anyone below cp160 gets scaled up to cp160 but gear will drop for each player at their level.

If you walk into the dungeon or teleport in then the dungeon is scaled to the group leader and no players are scaled, gear drops at the level of the dungeon for everyone.

You DO NOT get undaunted XP from doing random dungeons UNLESS you happen to earn a dungeon achievement while in the dungeon or if you happen to get one of the daily pledges.

You DO NOT get fighters guild XP from any dungeon UNLESS you kill daedra or undead in the dungeon (which I admit is pretty common).

Please allow me to say this: WHAT THE F***!?

Alright.. now that that's out of my system. I only have more questions.

So, dungeons ALWAYS get scaled? There is no actual lvl to it, it'll just get scaled, either up or down acordingly. Is this right?
And the possibilities are:
Dungeon scaling:
Q'ing -> It scales to cp160 no matter what.
Not Q'ing -> It scales to leader lvl.
Player scaling:
Q'ing -> Everyone scales up/down to cp160.
Not Q'ing -> No one scales.

About dungeon drops:
Q'ing -> Everyone get's "their lvl" drops.
Not Q'ing -> Drops are lvled to "dungeon" (leader) lvl.

About the guilds xp, q'ing or not makes no difference then?

Did i miss anything? Anyone wants to add anything?
Veteran runs work different? Are "Trials" different too?

SolarCat02 · August 2016

You are almost correct, except that:
- Dungeons never scale anyone down. CP160 is the highest "gear level" in the game, so also the highest possible level of enemy. It doesn't matter to the scaling if you have more than 160 CP, though. Your character just won't be battle scaled if you are level 50 with at least 160 CP.

I will also add that dungeons have a minimum level, and will not scale below that number. For example, if you set a level 5 as leader for a run through normal Banished Cells, the dungeon will only be scaled down to... Level 10 I believe?

This minimum level depends on the location of the dungeon. Starter Zone 1 dungeons (like Banished Cells or Spindleclutch) and DLC dungeons will never scale below 10. (The starter dungeons are in the first zone of each alliance). The minimum level increases for each zone. (For example, Elden Hollow in Grahtwoot is a Zone 2 dungeon, and so will not scale down to 10, but a slightly higher value, I don't remember exactly the number but 17 feels close). Vaults of Madness in Coldharbor won't scale below... 42 I think? (My numbers are probably off, but close).

Just another thing to keep in mind. The mechanics of the dungeons get more complicated as you progress through the zones, so the minimum level of the scaling also increases. The DLC is the most complicated mechanics but I guess ZOS leveled them down anyway so people could play them ASAP after purchase?

Rastoide · August 2016

Why does it have to be so messed up.. So confusing, and weird.. There's no hint of any of this ingame, or did i miss it?

Do they ever stoped to think how messed up it feels for newcomers?
Do you know whats its like for a newbie, lvl12 guy who barely has an ult, to get paired up with cp160 guy who spam a load of insane spells you dont understand??

This is just.. i donno man, i'm quite unhappy with this feature.

The ONLY possitive i get out of this, is that i can scale up content to make it harder. I guess.. i mean, acording to this i can pair up with a friend few lvls higher than me, and i'd get loot of his lvl, and i could save it till i reach that lvl.. right? Am i getting this right? Really..?

And btw, i still have a few daubts about the guilds xp, is it unrelated to queues and "not queues"?
I really want to understand all the diferences between q'ing and not q'ing.. please. And thank you for answering (both of you)!

Rastoide · August 2016

Oh and also, the re-running involved in all this.. Say i want to just run dungeons for 5 days straight.. i donno just.. for the sake of understanding things... Is it worth it? loot? guild xp?

Say i want to gear up with blues like that.. epic gear if you will.. or i want to find neat recipes.. or smthing.

Can i just run dungeons all week long? Or... (?)

MissBizz · August 2016

Rastoide wrote: »

Why does it have to be so messed up.. So confusing, and weird.. There's no hint of any of this ingame, or did i miss it?

Do they ever stoped to think how messed up it feels for newcomers?
Do you know whats its like for a newbie, lvl12 guy who barely has an ult, to get paired up with cp160 guy who spam a load of insane spells you dont understand??

This is just.. i donno man, i'm quite unhappy with this feature.

The ONLY possitive i get out of this, is that i can scale up content to make it harder. I guess.. i mean, acording to this i can pair up with a friend few lvls higher than me, and i'd get loot of his lvl, and i could save it till i reach that lvl.. right? Am i getting this right? Really..?

And btw, i still have a few daubts about the guilds xp, is it unrelated to queues and "not queues"?
I really want to understand all the diferences between q'ing and not q'ing.. please. And thank you for answering (both of you)!

I want to say I believe the first time you enter a battle levelled area it does let you know, although not sure if it does show again for a scaled dungeon. If you were to look at your stats while inside a dungeon (via Q) you would see you are scaled up.

The positive is being able to group with anyone and the queue being shorter - since anyone can join. It's really a HUGE positive to be able to scaled it to CP160 as then everyone gets their right level of loot. Not going to lie, running a dungeon with 3 level 47's wouldn't entice anyone about level 47 to join them... since everything they pick up with be too low of level and such.

Guild XP is not related to Q'ing in any way.

Rastoide · August 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

I want to say I believe the first time you enter a battle levelled area it does let you know, although not sure if it does show again for a scaled dungeon. If you were to look at your stats while inside a dungeon (via Q) you would see you are scaled up.

The positive is being able to group with anyone and the queue being shorter - since anyone can join. It's really a HUGE positive to be able to scaled it to CP160 as then everyone gets their right level of loot. Not going to lie, running a dungeon with 3 level 47's wouldn't entice anyone about level 47 to join them... since everything they pick up with be too low of level and such.

Guild XP is not related to Q'ing in any way.

Maybe i missed it because i turned off tutorials/hints at some point. Okey..

Alright i follow you. I know its nice to have a tool to do stuff with people.. matchmaking and such.. it is pretty handy stuff..

But as a newbie its seriosuly confusing to be paired up with higher lvls. Seriously. All the player spells you havent ever seen, plus a place you dont know what to expect, the challenge of the dungeon itself, and the bosses and whatnot... Its OVERWELLMING.. I really didn't know if i was getting in trouble, or if it was friendly stuff.. (As an experienced gamer, i found out quick enough. Yet the feeling sucks.) But hey, guess what.. it was an easy run after all, done in 30mins or so.. i just got carryed, like *tun tun* and done in a blink, i got bunch of lvl50 soulgems (which i sold and got a boost in gold - because, really, i'm under lvl20, why would i want lvl50 stuff

), and a load of xp, and items (my lvl items ofc). I barely learnt about the mechanics of the dungeon because i was being carryied. I mean, tbh, i kinda learnt a bit.. but it was a mess. And i got a great XP as reward and a blue random item. I should be happy?

Tho, as you might take the hint in my previous comments, i actually like "hard"-"challenges". For years i played all the games i played in Hard, Harder or something like that. And i always got greater rewards for challenges, and lesser rewards for easy things. Now i'm having trouble because this game appears to be rewarding rather the easier than the hard-challenging content (i'm actually starting to wonder if there's any hard-challenging content).

I know, it sounds like i'm complaining a lot. But i'm trying to give the "newbie" perspective of this.. Its confusing. It makes it easier, and it also gives greater rewards for less trouble. Its unusuall. AND it also minimizes all the dungeon content related to stories/NPCs inside (which i didn't mention before).

Some things are just meant to be DIFFICULT! Die and DIE AGAIN untill you DO IT RIGHT! I'm really just hoping i find this sort of challenge in this game..
Right now the only two times this happened were:
1. I went DUO-first-time first dungeon (Spindle), and i was lvl12, and my friend was lvl15. That took us 2-3hs to finish. Unnecesary trouble. But we had lots of fun.
2. I ran wayrest dungeon with other 3ppl, we were all around lvl20, and we encountered a guy that spawned SO MANY rats, that we just couldn't kill him. We didn't. We finished the run withouth killing him. That wasn't fun. We were "a bit" underlvled for the dungeon, and we finished it anyways thanks to the balanced queue thingy.