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Newbie looking to main tank needs information

Erzats
Erzats
Hello there!

[Introduction]

I minded myself to give a new try to ESO and I've got quite into it the past few days.
That being said... A problem persist:

I wish to main tank but my knoweldge of this game is limited and google searching leads me almost everytime into either a 2014 old external forum post or a very badly recorded youtube video.
I've found the Fextralife Wiki to help me with skill morphs and all, but even then I am limited to blindly theorycraft for the day I will have to deal with the more demanding content as a tank. Or even for my first dungeons.
In any case, as childish it may sound to some of you, I do not wish to level up a character with the definitive name I use on every video game to see myself forced to delete dozen of hours worth of gameplay (main lvl, crafting lvl, mount research, item researches, etc. ) because I had enough information at this point to realize which class fit myself the best.

[Questions]
  • What is important to Tanks in ESO? (eg. Damage mitigation, Crowd control, Keeping agro for all the mobs or only a few, allies support with damage shields/ damage bonuses or else)
  • Right now, I was thinking about making either a Night blade tank or a Dragon knight tank/bruiser but I heard that the Night blade tanks are pretty much ''Meh!'' when it comes to higher level dungeons / trials, as they lack CC.
    In other words, here I am questionning myself on both classes capability to keep up with the content as it grows harder.
Between what I think, what I want to say, what I believe I say, what I say, what you want to hear, what you believe to hear, what you hear, what you want to understand, what you think you understand, what you understand…They are ten possibilities that we might have some problem communicating. But let’s try anyway…
- Bernard Werber
  • E-Zekiel
    E-Zekiel
    ✭✭✭
    Point 1:

    I would probably say damage mitigation, crowd control and holding aggro all kind of go hand in hand. Certain tank classes will have different strengths and weaknesses, depending on your build. One thing to bear in mind is that though there are two taunt skills in the game, mobs do develop immunity if it's spammed too frequently. What I try to do is root > get an initial AE/DOT/AEDOT going > root again mana permitting > then begin tapping every mob in the encounter with puncture (whichever morph you choose). Cycle more as aggro is lost and do your best to keep the mobs together, grouped up, aggro on you, and try to keep them from running out of the big group.

    Point 2:

    Every class brings its own strengths and weaknesses to tanking (or any role). I will break down some of them here, bearing in mind that your mileage may vary quite a bit depending on your choice of secondary weapon (because you at the very least need 1h + shield for one of them :p) I've tanked with every class, and here are my thoughts:

    Dragonknight - probably the easiest to tank with. They have easy access to CC, self-defense, group shielding as well as some decent emergency self-heals if necessary. Probably has the most inherent overall mitigation of the four classes. This is a very well rounded class for tanking, and generally the one I prefer to play while tanking. They also have plenty of go-to AE damage sources for AE aggro. Zero ranged, which sucks, but if you keep the chain pull as an actual pull, you can spam it for ranged damage if you're forced into range. Or if the target can be pulled, well it pulls them to you, so there you go. This is the main reason I keep the pull as an actual pull. That and pulling something to you is just inherently more badass than ziplining to it.

    Nightblade - probably the hardest to tank with. They have little to no CC, but they do have a lot of "taps" - power taps, magicka and stamina taps, and lifetaps. Nightblades with the right build can make the biggest recovery from the brink of death (on my nightblade I can basically go from 15% to full when I kill a target). They have the most "tricks" to escape some mechanics, as well as a mana-based dodge ability that is *very* nice. They probably have (arguably) the highest burst/single target damage, which is good for sustaining aggro in single boss fights as well as killing the boss faster. They have arguably the worst inherent AE aggro because their class AE's are not very powerful. I get around this using the stamina regen morphed whirlwind (easier to spam with that morph for more aggro) ability from the DW tree. I would still prefer to have an AE root, though - the lack of CC exacerbates the issue. They're slightly better off in the spell damage mitigation department than DK's. Likewise, they have a number of great utilities as well as a few ranged attack. High mobility relative to DK, which is helpful in trying to get around and poke things with your taunt to hold aggro

    Sorc - probably the second easiest to tank with. Their abilities are very straightforward, and they are arguably the best of the tanks at holding AE aggro, if you go by sheer damage and aggro without accounting for CCs. They have some CC< but not as much as DK, but are better off than Nightblades in that department. They're better off than DK's in the spell damage mitigation department. They also have very high mobility, and TONS of ranged options.

    Templar - second hardest to tank with, though still noticeably easier than nightblade. Not because you'll hold aggro way easier or anything like that, but because when you don't have aggro, you have access to a healing tree without requiring a restoration staff, which is the main thing that sets templar tanks apart. They have CCs to help, which is awesome, as well as some great spammable point blank AE abilities which also helps with aggro. But what makes them particularly unique is their ability to self-heal (making them very sustainable) and the ability to heal groupmates if they do indeed lose aggro, which can often make up for losing it to begin with. It's still preferable to use a taunt, but healing is a very viable alternative if for some reason you can run over for a taunt stab. They are about even or maybe slightly better off than nightblade in the ranged department, though they do not have as much mobility.

    I think that's everything I can think of for now...
    Edited by E-Zekiel on July 25, 2016 12:35AM
  • Erzats
    Erzats
    Well, well, well! Thank you for the detailled explanation. Very appreciated.

    It seems like I had the right understanding of the basis for how both the Dragon Knight and the Nightblade work as tanks.
    I'll play both and see which I prefer at a higher level.
    At which point I'd simply repec the one I choose not to tank with into something else. A nightblade healer seems like a lot of fun too, I must say. Hehehe.

    Between what I think, what I want to say, what I believe I say, what I say, what you want to hear, what you believe to hear, what you hear, what you want to understand, what you think you understand, what you understand…They are ten possibilities that we might have some problem communicating. But let’s try anyway…
    - Bernard Werber
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    To be the best,
    the very best,
    like no one ever was...

    Buffing them is your true test,
    and War Horn is the cause!


    Here are a couple of guides to help you get a feel for gear and skills endgame. The primary role of tanks today is about how much more powerful you can make your group members. Holding aggro and staying alive is the "busy work" of tanking. Buffs, debuffs, target priority, and positioning are the key elements of the role.

    DK Tanking Guide
    NB Tanking Guide

    The key difference between a DK tank and a NB tank: DK has better CC, and NB has better sustain. Templars and Sorcerors are both viable, but (and this could be debated) have less powerful tools at their disposal, or so is the popular opinion. Personally, I think the player behind the character determines whether or not they are a great tank, but DK is the most intuitive.

    For a beginner, DK tanking is probably easiest to learn. NB tanking requires mastery of light attack weaving, and once that is mastered, becomes fairly intuitive thereafter. In any case, tanking is a constant mini-game of buff management, both on yourself and your party. As I have more experience with these two classes, I'll let someone else provide further details regarding Templars and Sorcs.
    Edited by Autolycus on July 26, 2016 8:41PM
  • ThePaleItalian
    ThePaleItalian
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    First off listen to @Autolycus . He knows what he is talking about.

    I have a Orc DK and all I do is tank. PvP and PvE. I have Sword and Board on both bars.

    Get Warhorn!!! Your group will love you for it. Also if you have a group of friends and they run it you can alternate throughout the dungeons and just wreak everything.

    Here are a few of my tips:

    Caltrops are great for AOE, and talons is your go too for AOE CC.
    You cannot hold aggro on everything, however grab the nastiest guys and keep them on you. But always keep your head on a swivel if your buddies get a group on them. Just Shield assault and drop talons to help them escape.
    Have buffs like Igneous Weapons and Fragmented shield are great to help your allies.
    Get VIGOR!!! Your best self heal and great AOE. Plus it uses Stamina and you should have a ton when buffed with food. I hit right around 35K.

    Now my last point I will give you is this: Play your character the way you want. There are so many builds and fun things to try in this game so you do not need to have exact cookie cutter classes like other MMO's.

    I put no points in health, all in Stam. Others have builds with Magicka. I run Hist Bark... because I love to dodge. Others will tell you Tava and Potent to get massive Ultimate returns. It all works. Take everything you can from other peoples advise and build something you enjoy and can play well.
    Conan, what is good in life?
    Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.

    PS4 Screen Name: The_Pale_Italian
    ZweiHandler - Orc DK Tank
    Solstice StormHaven - Magika Sorc
    Oba Nobanaga - Stam NB
  • Erzats
    Erzats
    Oh, more answers. And good ones at that.

    Thank you for both of your explanation.
    I didn't knew about the whole light and heavy attack weaving. That's an interesting mechanic. Or ''exploit'' of another game mechanic should I say, as some calls it on the internet, haha! Nonetheless, I find this to give quite the dept to the fighting mechanic concerning skill rotation.

    As for Thepaleitalian,
    ''Now my last point I will give you is this: Play your character the way you want. There are so many builds and fun things to try in this game so you do not need to have exact cookie cutter classes like other MMO's.''

    It's not that I didn't considered this point of view. On the contrary, it's the mindset I have when I start a new game. Usually :p.
    It's just that, as I said, loosing the name I want my main to have is really, really annoying to me... If ESO had a ''change your name'' feature, I wouldn't mind at all just experiencing around. I would play characters up to 20 / 30 and decide after all that time to play with one class if I really want to have it as my main then change the name of the one (well, two, adding the other I'll have to change the name so that I can have the name I want for my main) I decided would be the one I mostly play with and lvl up jobs with. But for whatever reason this isn't a thing on this game. Talking about it, it's a damn weird decision from Zenimax not to have this feature built in their game. But anyway... I digress.


    Between what I think, what I want to say, what I believe I say, what I say, what you want to hear, what you believe to hear, what you hear, what you want to understand, what you think you understand, what you understand…They are ten possibilities that we might have some problem communicating. But let’s try anyway…
    - Bernard Werber
  • mildlylucid
    mildlylucid
    ✭✭✭
    Hasn't been mentioned so I'll tell you so save you from my pain.

    Don't, for Uncle Sheo's sake, level up your character as a tank. Soloing is very painful with a tanking build as you kill everything slowly. At lower levels it's not particularly noticeable but once you get ~30 you start to notice. (Of course the main pain for me was levelling vet levels which no longer exist so maybe it's not too bad any more).
    What I recommend doing is levelling using a dps build and having a few tanking abilities on your bars so they level up, even if you never use them. Rotate which tanking abilities you have on your bar so when you hit whatever level you're comfortable doing end-game content with you can change your attributes, gear and skills to a tanking build and fun will be had.

    Of course this is just advice and you can try levelling as a tank if you really want to.
    Another day, another deathtrap.
    PC | NA | CP: 690+
    Main: Littlewill (50) - Khajiit Dragonknight Tank
    Alts:
    Bajzhli-do (50) - Khajiit Stamina Dragonknight DPS
    Tlanir Dro'flayn (23) - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade DPS
    Morgayne Dalodrel (21) - Breton Magicka Templar Healer
    Tumande Stormwatch (20) - Altmer Magicka Sorcerer DPS
    Tamdril Merilyn (5) - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight DPS
    Bjorngrim Ingensen (5) - Nord Warden Tank
    Gwynereth Bonecrusher (4) - Bosmer Stamina Warden DPS
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
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    ✭✭✭✭
    I've had extensive experience with a dragonknight tank and a nightblade sap tank.

    While a sap tank doesn't have a group cc like talons, it had better sustainability and does a lot more damage. I can solo normal dungeons without much danger of dyeing. It's a lot more fun imo.

    A dranlgonkinght tank is probably the best to start off on. I wouldn't a nightblade one too at some point if I were you though. It's a lot of fun.

    But yeh, don't level as a tank. Sure, have sword and board and level tanking skill, but were medium at the very least. My first character I levelled up in heavy and it was painful. With CP now it wouldn't be as bad, but still unnecessary. 5 medium, 2 bits heavy with training andyou'll level it uppretty quick anyway.
    Edited by Brrrofski on July 27, 2016 10:23AM
  • bebynnag
    bebynnag
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    i tank on a templar and not having a cc is annoying & painfull at times, caltrops can help with this but its no talons!
    in normal & some vet dungeons it is not a problem
    in other vet dungeons & trials where only 1 tank is needed it is not a problem as long as your team realise you are a templar, and slot a cc skill for you, ie my sorc dps will find space on their bar for their restraining or shattering prism
    in trials where 2 tanks are needed i prefer to run it with a DK tank I take the big hitters, they take the bulk/adds

    basically what im saying is, and i think this is true for all builds/roles, your team is important. find a guild that work together, and work with your character instead of against it. every build has its strenghts & weaknesses, most weaknesses can be countered with a good group

    and i definatley second the advice to level as a DD, leveling as a tank is slow & painfull :D
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Erzats wrote: »
    Oh, more answers. And good ones at that.
    I didn't knew about the whole light and heavy attack weaving. That's an interesting mechanic. Or ''exploit'' of another game mechanic should I say, as some calls it on the internet, haha! Nonetheless, I find this to give quite the dept to the fighting mechanic concerning skill rotation.

    Heavy attacks are largely unnecessary for sustain, with some practice.

    Light attack weaving (as a tank) is only important under 2 circumstances. Either:
    1. You are a NB tank, and light attacks + siphoning attacks is your bread & butter of sustain, or
    2. In order to proc a weapon glyph or poison.

    Otherwise, light/med/heavy attack weaving is a dps mechanic.
  • ThePaleItalian
    ThePaleItalian
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Erzats wrote: »
    Oh, more answers. And good ones at that.

    Thank you for both of your explanation.
    I didn't knew about the whole light and heavy attack weaving. That's an interesting mechanic. Or ''exploit'' of another game mechanic should I say, as some calls it on the internet, haha! Nonetheless, I find this to give quite the dept to the fighting mechanic concerning skill rotation.

    As for Thepaleitalian,
    ''Now my last point I will give you is this: Play your character the way you want. There are so many builds and fun things to try in this game so you do not need to have exact cookie cutter classes like other MMO's.''

    It's not that I didn't considered this point of view. On the contrary, it's the mindset I have when I start a new game. Usually :p.
    It's just that, as I said, loosing the name I want my main to have is really, really annoying to me... If ESO had a ''change your name'' feature, I wouldn't mind at all just experiencing around. I would play characters up to 20 / 30 and decide after all that time to play with one class if I really want to have it as my main then change the name of the one (well, two, adding the other I'll have to change the name so that I can have the name I want for my main) I decided would be the one I mostly play with and lvl up jobs with. But for whatever reason this isn't a thing on this game. Talking about it, it's a damn weird decision from Zenimax not to have this feature built in their game. But anyway... I digress.


    They are coming out with a name change the next DLC. Race, appearance and name. I do not know costs yet. So don't stress to much like that.

    I got caught up in everyone elses builds and was getting frustrated because I couldnt get them to work, now that I changed to my play style, I love it.
    Conan, what is good in life?
    Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.

    PS4 Screen Name: The_Pale_Italian
    ZweiHandler - Orc DK Tank
    Solstice StormHaven - Magika Sorc
    Oba Nobanaga - Stam NB
  • Kippesnikke
    Kippesnikke
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hey dude!

    Awsome to see someone is starting a tank!

    I tank on a dragonknight because its the best supporting class u can take.
    im a trial tank myself and the skills and passives from a dragonknight just out do any other class in tanking.
    Chains for example is a skill wich is soooo helpfull on a tank.
    Why is that? Cause as a trial tank positioning adds is so freaking important. also to sustain ur group igneous shields is fantastic and it also gives u back ur stamina. In tough situations u can pop magma shield and become near invinsible!
    So if u plan on tanking trials? Plz promise me u will take DK!
    PC-EU-EP
    Northborn DK tank
    Hodor
    Pandora's Promise
    vMoL cleared on VR16 #World1st
    Worlds #1 vMoL speed run [VR16]
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