It's Time for a 3rd Resource Pool for Dodge, Block, and Bree Free

SanTii.92 · August 2016

I just think roll dodge is too damn strong. That extra second when the animation has already finished but you still are dodging projectiles is complete Bs.

I'd start with that before any major overhaul.

zuto40 · August 2016

Leave health the way it is its fine

Move dodge and cc break to a different pool thats equal at the base for stam and magic

Move healing ability to a new stat so stam classes cant heal from 20-80% with 1 rally and magplars cant get 20k BoLs while dealing out 3k sweeps

jhharvest · August 2016

How about:
-dodge roll, block, cc break, shields and healing (all defensive abilities) use one pool
-all damage abilities use another pool

This would be really unimmersive but it would make you choose between damage and survival.

Vaoh · August 2016

Let's just leave it the way it is -_-

Manoekin · August 2016

Defense and Offense just simply shouldn't scale off of the same attribute. That goes for stam/dodge, magicka/shields and heals for either side.

I agree with a separate resource pool for the three described in OP. Heals should scale off of a separate stat similar to spell/weapon damage that only affects heals. Damage shields should only scale off of max HP, or at worst a separate healing attribute as described.

Ragnaroek93 · August 2016

Nope, Magicka builds should not be able to dodgeroll as much as Stamina builds.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Right now there are two major issues with ESO from a balance stand point.(Class issues withstanding but thats a topic for another thread)

1. Health is useless
2. Dodge Roll, Break Free, and Block are all tied to the same resource pool that increases Stamina Based damage and Stamina Based Healing.

This needs to be changed.

Health needs to be renamed Endurance, and it not only needs to determine your max health, but it also needs to be the base of the resource pool that determines how often you can dodge, block, and break free that is independent of stamina

Right now in open world PVP Crowd Control determines pretty much 99% of all fights, the 1st one out of stam(unable to CC break) is dead. Since this system is based on stamina, it gives far too much of an unfair advantage as a magic build must sacrifice damage if they wish to have larger stam pool to break free, Stam builds can simply stack everything into max stam and not only do they increase their damage and stamina based healing, but they also increase their ability/number of times they can dodge and break- free. Back when Shields lasted longer then 6 seconds, I was ok with this because Magic builds could keep shields up longer to even out their disadvantage of not being able to CC break, dodge, or block anywhere near as much as stam build.

Now however, the 6 sec duration has pretty much put magic builds into a hole they simply can't get out of. In a fight between 2 equally skilled players, its not a magic builds fight to win its a stam builds fight to lose. A magic build makes one mistake(dodges when he shouldn't") he is dead against any competent stam build. A stamina build can make multiple mistakes in dodging, etc and still win a fight. When you factor in that stamina abilities do more damage then their magic counterparts, and all stamina based class abilities are 20% cheaper in cost then their magic counterparts, and all stamina based weapons get a 20% cost reduction to their skills on top of med armor passives, its simply too lopsided.

You know i thought shields were just a bit over the top...i thought a 20 seconds was too long, 10 seconds would have been pretty fair. Even then magic builds would still be hard pressed. However leaving it at 6 seconds would be fine if Dodge, Block, and Break-free were determined by a3rd resource pool that has nothing to do with damage.

Simply put,
Health needs to be renamed Endurance

Dodge, Block, and Break Free no longer determined by stamina

the 3rd resource pool Endurance is governed by how much health and health recovery you have.

This means BOTH stamina and magic builds will have to give up damage(invest in health) if they wish to be able to dodge, block, or break-free more. This is the core crux of why stamina has been significantly better then magic since 1.6. Make this change and i think you can leave stamina damage alone. I think things would be pretty fair overall. Stam builds would still have Major Evasion, but it would put things in a more even leveled field...well about as even as it could be, nothing will be perfect mind you, but it would be a start.

thoughts?

Sorry, but everything that I did read was "Please overnerf Staminabuilds". No, health is not useless. Stamina builds don't have a spammable burst heal or shield like magicka builds have, so no, Staminabuilds rely on being able to dodge and block more than Manabuilds.
If you run out of stamina than you need to practise more. I don't want to offend you, but no decent player will run out of stamina with pots. You also write that Stambuilds can just stack everything into max stamina while magicka users needs to sacrifice dmg. That's also not true. Ok, maybe Redguard Stamdk can do this, because this setup is overpowered, but other Stambuilds can't (unless you run a heavy attack build). I run 2.5k stamina regen on my Nightblade, don't tell me that I don't sacrifice damage for getting that much regen.
Magicka builds do one mistake and they die. Please, my Magplar doesn't die after one mistake and my Stamblade also dies very fast after one mistake.

I agree, that Magbuilds need a few buffs in some ways and that Heavy Armor is overbuffed, but really... I hope that ZOS ignores your post, I would be really sad if they make such a huge balance change. And I'm 99% sure that this would result in a lot more unbalance compared to doing some minor changes.

Altercator · August 2016

I think there are a bunch of good ideas here, but I don't think ZOS has anyone with the ability to write the code.

Bromburak · August 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

This means BOTH stamina and magic builds will have to give up damage(invest in health) if they wish to be able to dodge, block, or break-free more. This is the core crux of why stamina has been significantly better then magic since 1.6.

thoughts?

This has nothing todo with cause of why Stamina has been better then magic.
Why do you think it's good when something else draining same ressource for your main damage and heals?
It's actually a contradiction to your health/endurance suggestion.

It's like you said before, it must be an independent ressource, everything else is simply bad design.

Stovahkiin · August 2016

I actually really like this idea, something definately needs to be done and this is the best idea I've heard so far.

Dreyloch · August 2016

I like the idea of a class specific pool for class abilities that's been mentioned. Then adjust all the stam and magicka abilities to be more balanced and similar cost. These would be any non-class specific items like Mage and Fighter's guild skills, destro and resto staff, and AvA skills. These could also use the same resource as Break-free, dodge etc. But it has to be a pool large enough to allow using those skills, while still being able to make your defensive moves.Of course there has to be a finite amount of it. I'll leave it up to more expert number crunchers if there should be any way to adjust it's regen rate. Because that's opening another can of imbalance.

Even though we're pouring all our ideas and such into this thread, I don't see a way to implement any of this without a very major revamp of the whole core game mechanics. =/

Cryhavoc · August 2016

Why not remove the contribution to damage from both stamina and magicka pools?

This is most likely impossible due to coding...

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

Armitas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

@Armitas
I like pretty much everything except the Healing scaling off max magicka / stamina.
Healing should have its own independant stat.
Otherwise it's just another buff to redguard and high elf.

Thanks. Yeah that is the biggest weakness. It results in high healing and high sustain when it draws from the magicka pool that way. Separate would be better.

This is where it would have been nice to have a 'Willpower' and an 'Intelligence' stat, to distinguish the two. There was an advantage in Elder Scrolls having a number of attributes.

Daggerfall_Bones · August 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

I think a easier change would be to give magic users longer cc immunity with a passive either in the magic champion tree or in the light armor passive. Something like after you cc break you gain an additional 1 second of cc immunity per piece of light armor. Because the problem isn't really magicka has a low stamina pool the problem is how skill less it is to drain a magicka users stamina pool. So with this change it would basically double how long a magicka user has cc immunity.

That's a good idea. Light armor needs some love cc immunity love and that sounds like a reasonable approach. Maybe a half second of extra immunity though. 7 secs would be a long time.

Vindemiatrix · August 2016

I see a definite advantage in PvP in scaling CC break off health in that it might help prevent those CC->damage combos that take less than a second to kill somebody. If someone at full health (the start of the fight) could break away easier from the get-go, they might have a shot at defending or retaliating.

Lyrander · August 2016

i dont care HOW they do it...bit it needs more balance.

roll dodge, block, sneaking and sprinting is something you just cant do on a magicka build. not long enough at least.

so what the TO said is a good point.

or take away magicka and stamina and replace it with one resource pool.
call it: what-do-i-care-i-dont-get-paid-for-that.

i hope they will do something about it. someone in clothes should be able to roll better and more than someone in heavy armor anyway -.-

but i have way better chances to stay alive on a stamina build than a magicka build.
and it doesnt matter what build i am up against.
the break free and block cost alone let me die.

roll dodge? once or twice if i am lucky!

and then they have all those stamina sets that make those things even easier...wish my magicka sets would give me any
advantage on rolling, blocking or sneaking....

Valencer · August 2016

The hilarity of this thread is that back when the game was Elder Staves Online, everybody was saying we needed a 3rd resource pool because it's unfair to stamina builds that they needed to use their main resource for CC breaking, roll dodge, blocking etc.