Suggestion: Dungeon proving grounds?

Uphz · August 2016

Imo that would only make it more complicated for new players to start doing dungeons, or they would simply give up thinking they're not good enough. I wouldnt mind it for veteran dungeons to get used to mechanics though.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2016

CasNation wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So the idea is to basically have everyone "prove" they are the role they signed up as am I right? Well I do believe this suggestion would not work out for that reason as it also punishes those that honestly ARE the role they sign up as and thus wastes their time. I shall propose an alternate suggestion because I, too, feel trolling through Group/Dungeon Finder ruins a lot of people's experience with the feature.

Zenimax stated Update 11 now displays what role each ability is better suited for. Well, what if this escalated to the player? Let's say someone slots 3 Tank skills, 1 Damage skill, and 2 Healing skills. Somewhere in the nameplates for this player it would say they are a Tank above all else because they have more Tank abilities slotted than anything. If they have 2 of each slotted they could be called a Freelancer or something. Now of course this is considerably vague and people COULD just activate more than 12 abilities and swap during the dungeon as they see fit but at the same time those looking to speed run said dungeon would know something was up and probably kick that person anyway. The initial entry is what people look at so something like this, depending on how well ability classification works in Update 11, should help weed out the imposters.

I disagree with this. There are just too many edge cases where this system could go wrong.

I also don't really think that requiring a test is "punishing" for experienced competent players. It is a one time qualification run that would take less than 10 minutes. So what? As mentioned already, it would serve to teach more than it would serve to exclude. The point is not that you keep out the people who are bad, the point is to teach the bad people how to play their role so there are more people to play with who are compentant.

Werewolf and Vampire bites sold in the Crown Store beg to differ. Anything that hinders someone from getting things done quickly is quickly going to be complained about.

ScottK1994 · August 2016

Well I think it doesn't need to be so complicated. If they dont have resto staff equipped they can't queue healer. No 1h and shield? No you can't tank with a 2h

UltimaJoe777 · August 2016

Ok how about this?

When a group is about to head for a dungeon the group is shown a window that displays all the info on your groupies to know their build. That way you can determine for yourself if they are best suited for the role they signed up as. Once done perusing the windows and seeing your fellow players' build data you decide to accept or decline the run and if you decline you leave the group and if you accept you wait for the others to accept too. If even one person declines the group will go back into queue.

Want people to learn the ropes of their role? Either let them do it the hard way or take the time to educate them. If you can't even do that then perhaps you don't deserve to have a competent group to run a dungeon with...

Ep1kMalware · August 2016

I am calling it. Inb4 "ZOS NERF PROVING GROUNDS!".

Ep1kMalware · August 2016

CasNation wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So the idea is to basically have everyone "prove" they are the role they signed up as am I right? Well I do believe this suggestion would not work out for that reason as it also punishes those that honestly ARE the role they sign up as and thus wastes their time. I shall propose an alternate suggestion because I, too, feel trolling through Group/Dungeon Finder ruins a lot of people's experience with the feature.

Zenimax stated Update 11 now displays what role each ability is better suited for. Well, what if this escalated to the player? Let's say someone slots 3 Tank skills, 1 Damage skill, and 2 Healing skills. Somewhere in the nameplates for this player it would say they are a Tank above all else because they have more Tank abilities slotted than anything. If they have 2 of each slotted they could be called a Freelancer or something. Now of course this is considerably vague and people COULD just activate more than 12 abilities and swap during the dungeon as they see fit but at the same time those looking to speed run said dungeon would know something was up and probably kick that person anyway. The initial entry is what people look at so something like this, depending on how well ability classification works in Update 11, should help weed out the imposters.

I disagree with this. There are just too many edge cases where this system could go wrong.

I also don't really think that requiring a test is "punishing" for experienced competent players. It is a one time qualification run that would take less than 10 minutes. So what? As mentioned already, it would serve to teach more than it would serve to exclude. The point is not that you keep out the people who are bad, the point is to teach the bad people how to play their role so there are more people to play with who are compentant.

and if they don't learn, why is keeping them out bad to begin with? You cant just walk into a hospital and demand to be a heart surgeon because 'that's how you roll'.

\o/ keeping out the bad<3

Izaki · August 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

What do you guys think?

I think that, in general, TSW was a terrible MMO. But it's gatekeeper did have the best AI approximation of DPSers I've ever seen in MMO. On the healer challenge, they'd stand in the red, and blame you when they died.

In relation to your comment, the problem isn't players thinking they can tank with a DW/Bow build. It's that they've realized if they select all three roles they'll get attached to a group faster than if they're honest. And lying about your role isn't punished at all.

Which is illogical because lying about your role just to get a group will just land yoi without a group in the end when everyone leaves becausw the tank or healer arent actual tanks or healers.

Expecting logical behavior from PUG Randos? That way lies madness, my friend.

EDIT: It's distinctly possible that those same randoms that are queuing for all three roles are also 13 years old, and simply don't understand how the trinity works or why it's important in a dungeon. They just want to kill **** now.

While using that Sypher/Fengrush PvP builds they found

Yeah it sucks when none of your mates are online and you PUG a group... Yeah I would totally like this testing grounds thing. That moment when you realize that everyone is dead and you have to solo the remaining 60% of Valkyn Skoria (happened to me), or when you realize that everyone wiped in Wayrest Sewers

(yeah I've seen that happen, had to solo the damn thing as well).

I have a big problem with people claiming they have really good DPS and then they'd get insta killed by a mob casting Arrow Barrage, then scream that the healer ain't healing and that the tank ain't tanking. They stand in the big red AoE and expect the healer to heal them from -50% health all the way up to 100%. And by the way, their DPS is just bad. I'd be gladly surprised if it were higher than 10k per second... Anyway thats my frustration with 75% of the DPSers in ESO.

NewBlacksmurf · August 2016

This comes up a lot...in short

ZOS allows the trinity but doesn't want to force or enforce the trinity so in essence, while some encounters are almost impossible without a certain group make-up, it's not the trinity that's the issue.

Each group needs to be willing to change and adjust based on the players effectiveness and abilities.
My motto unless in a raid is, be able to heal, survive, dos and tank if needed. I have unlocked many optional skills and Passives in the event of change doing PUGs and activity finder groups.

When a group of 4 mixed role players can face roll almost any regular dungeon and most bet dungeons, it's pretty clear that the trinity is almost useless to build your character that way.

Honestly, if ur not doing decent dmg and able to support or one-off some other role, pugs aren't for you.

If u want to be a pure role of the trinity, realize there's more than likely many players like you out there, but you'll have to experience those others too.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · August 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This comes up a lot...in short

ZOS allows the trinity but doesn't want to force or enforce the trinity so in essence, while some encounters are almost impossible without a certain group make-up, it's not the trinity that's the issue.

Each group needs to be willing to change and adjust based on the players effectiveness and abilities.
My motto unless in a raid is, be able to heal, survive, dos and tank if needed. I have unlocked many optional skills and Passives in the event of change doing PUGs and activity finder groups.

I don't think that is acceptable though.

In a dungeon, an average skilled tank, healer and DPS is all that is needed to complete it. If one does not know how their role works or has crazy builds that are all over the place, their needs to be some way to remedy them. One should not have to carry an extra resto staff to support the healer who cannot support correctly when they can easily kick that healer and find a better one that can.

Like last night we had a "healer" who used a bow and templar heals. Needless to say, we wiped on several occasions until we got on chat and agreed to kick him. Within less than 1 minute we found a healer who actually was able to heal and the dungeon went smoothly.

This goes to tanks who cannot tank as well and know nothing of taunts or cc

It also goes to DPS who cannot put together a decent set-up, stand in the red too much or follow important mechanics.

The quality of a PuG is a drastically different experience when you have team mates who actually put effort into the group. There's a huge difference between a stamina melee with a sword and a melee SnB who uses his defensives, CC and taunts correctly. Likewise with healers and DPS.

The PG idea seeks to help those who cannot perform at an average
level. Unless doing veteran PG then one of average skill shouldn't have an issue with the PG and should welcome it with open arms.

It's like in WoW, there were so many complaints when their own version of PG came out. Even though, the average players could easily surpass it. It essentially sorted out the have's and have's nots.

Kelces · August 2016

Interesting, let's entertain that thought for a minute:

- Group gets assembled...
- 3 players (tank and 2 dps) arrive at the dungeon after a few minutes...
- After 10 minutes:"Where the heck is our healer?"
- *Healer still heavy-/light attacking his/her way through the trial*

SolarCat02 · August 2016

If something like this is implemented, I would suggest the "Tutorial" should be:

- triggered before actually adding the person to the queue.
- skipped if queueing with a full group of four.
- provide a reward useful for newbies and veterans alike (something like a few Columbine and grand soul gems should do the trick, while also ensuring that everyone has at least a couple grand soul gems in the dungeon)

I don't really care either way, to be honest. Yes, I have had some really bad PUGs, but I have learned to adjust or kick as needed.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · August 2016

Kelces wrote: »

Interesting, let's entertain that thought for a minute:

- Group gets assembled...
- 3 players (tank and 2 dps) arrive at the dungeon after a few minutes...
- After 10 minutes:"Where the heck is our healer?"
- *Healer still heavy-/light attacking his/her way through the trial*

They wouldnt be able to even dungeon queue for healer until they passed the trial though.

Unless of course, they were in a group with friends who manually went to the dungeon with them.

Ep1kMalware · August 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This comes up a lot...in short

ZOS allows the trinity but doesn't want to force or enforce the trinity so in essence, while some encounters are almost impossible without a certain group make-up, it's not the trinity that's the issue.

Each group needs to be willing to change and adjust based on the players effectiveness and abilities.
My motto unless in a raid is, be able to heal, survive, dos and tank if needed. I have unlocked many optional skills and Passives in the event of change doing PUGs and activity finder groups.

When a group of 4 mixed role players can face roll almost any regular dungeon and most bet dungeons, it's pretty clear that the trinity is almost useless to build your character that way.

Honestly, if ur not doing decent dmg and able to support or one-off some other role, pugs aren't for you.

If u want to be a pure role of the trinity, realize there's more than likely many players like you out there, but you'll have to experience those others too.

my motto is: stop *** dying! This sums up anything you could possibly do. dont stand in red, allocate mote health, prioritize targets, slot self heals, l2dodgeoll/interrupt/block.

idc how you do it, but staying alive is #1. No ,atter your roll, you're useless if your eating dirt.