MMO games are NOT charity!

Lysette · August 2016

wonkydog wrote: »

People's fear of missing out on time sensitive things - football matches, limited time mounts - often causes them to spend what they wouldn't with the time limits removed. If you miss the big game next week you cannot buy the experience cheaper in a few months. It is gone forever. Expect to see more time limited crown store items.

I just wonder why ZOS is doing this so, that the limited time ends before people get their monthy paycheck - wouldn't it be better to have this offer once they got their money?

moiraleafcull · August 2016

amirgelman wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

It's a big problem in any industry that sells products that are constantly on. If I were to buy a couch and burned a hole in it, I'm not calling customer service. If I buy a chicken sandwich and they forget my BBQ sauce, I'm not going to report a trouble ticket. But if NFL Redzone isn't working at 1PM on a fall Sunday you better believe I'm calling AT&T in a panic.

MMOs and ESO specifically follow a similar path. I've seen people demand refunds on here when the server is down for 2 hours. I've also seen posters admit to not buying DLC and get angry that it's not just given out too. I've even seen people declare injustices because something cost $30 instead of their arbitrarily determined cost of fairness.

At the end of the day you just got to realize that much of it is keyboard hero nonsense said by people who wouldn't dare say things like they do online to people in real life. It's also because a lot of ESO's customers aren't full fledged adults who realize that the world isn't going to cater to their every whim.

TLDR: Get off my lawn.

That's a really good point of view. I guess its way too easy to complain behind a keyboard then it would with other type of services. And yeah I guess some of ESO's fans are small children... althought I always kinda hoped the majority of this game's players are adults.

An adult here...and one who expects a certain level of quality from products I pay for.
ESO is of poorer quality today than it was at launch to a degree on par with the mess that SWG devolved into.
And as I had 3 subscribed accounts (now down to one and questioning that expenditure), I think I have every right to expect not spending 30% of my 3 hours of evening gaming time in load screens, dropping to login screens, game crashes, ports between keeps in Cyrodiil, and restarting the game twice in a row to clear the rezzing bug.

And yes...for laughs...I timed every keep port in Cyro the other night...the fastest...1 minute and 57 seconds.
That but barely touches upon the wealth of problems I encounter in this game on a nightly basis.

DannyLV702 · August 2016

If it's not a charity....then why have I been giving all this money and gotten the same or worse performance every dlc...

Lysette · August 2016

moiraleafcull wrote: »

amirgelman wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

It's a big problem in any industry that sells products that are constantly on. If I were to buy a couch and burned a hole in it, I'm not calling customer service. If I buy a chicken sandwich and they forget my BBQ sauce, I'm not going to report a trouble ticket. But if NFL Redzone isn't working at 1PM on a fall Sunday you better believe I'm calling AT&T in a panic.

MMOs and ESO specifically follow a similar path. I've seen people demand refunds on here when the server is down for 2 hours. I've also seen posters admit to not buying DLC and get angry that it's not just given out too. I've even seen people declare injustices because something cost $30 instead of their arbitrarily determined cost of fairness.

At the end of the day you just got to realize that much of it is keyboard hero nonsense said by people who wouldn't dare say things like they do online to people in real life. It's also because a lot of ESO's customers aren't full fledged adults who realize that the world isn't going to cater to their every whim.

TLDR: Get off my lawn.

That's a really good point of view. I guess its way too easy to complain behind a keyboard then it would with other type of services. And yeah I guess some of ESO's fans are small children... althought I always kinda hoped the majority of this game's players are adults.

An adult here...and one who expects a certain level of quality from products I pay for.
ESO is of poorer quality today than it was at launch to a degree on par with the mess that SWG devolved into.
And as I had 3 subscribed accounts (now down to one and questioning that expenditure), I think I have every right to expect not spending 30% of my 3 hours of evening gaming time in load screens, dropping to login screens, game crashes, ports between keeps in Cyrodiil, and restarting the game twice in a row to clear the rezzing bug.

And yes...for laughs...I timed every keep port in Cyro the other night...the fastest...1 minute and 57 seconds.
That but barely touches upon the wealth of problems I encounter in this game on a nightly basis.

I have seen some of the problems you guys have in Cyrrodil and especially on console - it is really horrible, you are not exaggerating at all. It is a mess and painful to play like this - well if one can call this playing at all.

Lysette · August 2016

I just hope that these problems on consoles will be less with the patch midst of this month - I feel your pain with it. I still remember how upset I was when the 64-bit client was so messy when it came out - it was a pain to play and I had a break of 10 days, just because I could not stand it any longer at that time. But over time ZOS got it right, and now it works quite well. So I really hope, they will get this fixed as well for you guys.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Yeah, basically people are starting to line up in two categories: People who own business' and people who work for business'.

The people who own a business or small business or understand free market concepts get that there should be a fair exchange, time = money.

The people who have just been underpaid overworked employees with no concept of how to run a business think that they are owed more from other sectors of society i.e 'meh gamez shuld be free'

This is the very essence of what we are seeing today around us. We must not allow the workers to unite

Not entirely. People want a Steve Jobs or Walmart prices or summer drink days at Mickey Ds pulled in their MMO; by that I mean a business person fighting for low costs to increase sales. When prices are high people will use fraud more often. Just read the multiple reasoning behind pirating they pirate cause costs are too high or the process of obtaining it is too difficult. Reasonable prices create reasonable customers who pay it cause its not a huge loss and it helps the company that got on their good side.

Edit: By steve jobs I mean the 99 cent per song thing. Not the overpriced apple products.

You buy a status symbol if you buy an iphone or an ipad - instead of an android device or windows tablet. That is why people are willing to pay more.

I had no idea I was the owner of a status symbol . I bought Apple because it works well .

Lysette · August 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Yeah, basically people are starting to line up in two categories: People who own business' and people who work for business'.

The people who own a business or small business or understand free market concepts get that there should be a fair exchange, time = money.

The people who have just been underpaid overworked employees with no concept of how to run a business think that they are owed more from other sectors of society i.e 'meh gamez shuld be free'

This is the very essence of what we are seeing today around us. We must not allow the workers to unite

Not entirely. People want a Steve Jobs or Walmart prices or summer drink days at Mickey Ds pulled in their MMO; by that I mean a business person fighting for low costs to increase sales. When prices are high people will use fraud more often. Just read the multiple reasoning behind pirating they pirate cause costs are too high or the process of obtaining it is too difficult. Reasonable prices create reasonable customers who pay it cause its not a huge loss and it helps the company that got on their good side.

Edit: By steve jobs I mean the 99 cent per song thing. Not the overpriced apple products.

You buy a status symbol if you buy an iphone or an ipad - instead of an android device or windows tablet. That is why people are willing to pay more.

I had no idea I was the owner of a status symbol . I bought Apple because it works well .

Same reason why people buy Mercedes or BMW and not a run of the mill car - it works well. And is a status symbol. And convenience of course, in a mercedes you can still listen to good music when you drive at nearly 200 mph - in another car you have just engine noise. 'And the attention to detail, they have even sound designers for the perfect closing and opening sound for doors.

DaveMoeDee · August 2016

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

I've said it before... and I'll say it again. I begrudge no business for want of money... that's what business is about.

However, there's no "fine line" between making money and doing it ethically- bending your customers over a table in order to obtain said riches will eventually drive your customers away. Ethics is about people, business is about money- and there's really a balance in doing it ethically.

That said, there's a definitive difference these days between businesses of old, where the owners understood it takes years to develop customer loyalty and trust, and customer relationships were indeed the focus, and the new businesses where it's all about getting rich as quickly as possible, no matter what the "cost".

Hiring all mostly part-timers to avoid having to pay employee benefits, selling cheaply made less than quality products, treating your customers as just another number, etc. All of these factors will indeed cost a business more in the short-term than it will long-term, but most won't care because they plan on sipping martinis on a beach somewhere with your money after they've shut their doors and blamed "the economy" for having to do so.

I encourage all customers to educate themselves- to really research ANY business before you buy products, and as long as you're making an informed decision, by all means continue the business contract. As the saying goes- "Caveat Emptor".

Also makes me wonder why there's no "Angie's List" for software companies these days.

You don't need an Angie's List for ESO. You see the product in the crown store and its costs and then you decide if it is worth that to you.

I find any arguments complaining that ZOS is unethical to be nonsensical. They are letting people play the base game for no additional payment. People can buy the game for $16 and then play for hundreds of hours on just the base game. If they want to play through the DLC, they can DLC binge play for one month and complete all the DLC with a single $15 sub payment.

People are complaining about trivial cosmetic items.

Lysette · August 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

I've said it before... and I'll say it again. I begrudge no business for want of money... that's what business is about.

However, there's no "fine line" between making money and doing it ethically- bending your customers over a table in order to obtain said riches will eventually drive your customers away. Ethics is about people, business is about money- and there's really a balance in doing it ethically.

That said, there's a definitive difference these days between businesses of old, where the owners understood it takes years to develop customer loyalty and trust, and customer relationships were indeed the focus, and the new businesses where it's all about getting rich as quickly as possible, no matter what the "cost".

Hiring all mostly part-timers to avoid having to pay employee benefits, selling cheaply made less than quality products, treating your customers as just another number, etc. All of these factors will indeed cost a business more in the short-term than it will long-term, but most won't care because they plan on sipping martinis on a beach somewhere with your money after they've shut their doors and blamed "the economy" for having to do so.

I encourage all customers to educate themselves- to really research ANY business before you buy products, and as long as you're making an informed decision, by all means continue the business contract. As the saying goes- "Caveat Emptor".

Also makes me wonder why there's no "Angie's List" for software companies these days.

You don't need an Angie's List for ESO. You see the product in the crown store and its costs and then you decide if it is worth that to you.

I find any arguments complaining that ZOS is unethical to be nonsensical. They are letting people play the base game for no additional payment. People can buy the game for $16 and then play for hundreds of hours on just the base game. If they want to play through the DLC, they can DLC binge play for one month and complete all the DLC with a single $15 sub payment.

People are complaining about trivial cosmetic items.

And they have all the right to do that, because they are paying for the show.

DaveMoeDee · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Yeah, basically people are starting to line up in two categories: People who own business' and people who work for business'.

The people who own a business or small business or understand free market concepts get that there should be a fair exchange, time = money.

The people who have just been underpaid overworked employees with no concept of how to run a business think that they are owed more from other sectors of society i.e 'meh gamez shuld be free'

This is the very essence of what we are seeing today around us. We must not allow the workers to unite

Not entirely. People want a Steve Jobs or Walmart prices or summer drink days at Mickey Ds pulled in their MMO; by that I mean a business person fighting for low costs to increase sales. When prices are high people will use fraud more often. Just read the multiple reasoning behind pirating they pirate cause costs are too high or the process of obtaining it is too difficult. Reasonable prices create reasonable customers who pay it cause its not a huge loss and it helps the company that got on their good side.

Edit: By steve jobs I mean the 99 cent per song thing. Not the overpriced apple products.

You buy a status symbol if you buy an iphone or an ipad - instead of an android device or windows tablet. That is why people are willing to pay more.

I had no idea I was the owner of a status symbol . I bought Apple because it works well .

Same reason why people buy Mercedes or BMW and not a run of the mill car - it works well. And is a status symbol. And convenience of course, in a mercedes you can still listen to good music when you drive at nearly 200 mph - in another car you have just engine noise. 'And the attention to detail, they have even sound designers for the perfect closing and opening sound for doors.

iPhones cost the same as top Android phones if you buy them with a subsidy.

While I use a Note 4, I find it silly to say that the only reason for favoring an Apple device is status. My wife changed to an iPhone from a Galaxy S4 because 4 years of Android phones was frustrating compared to her experience on an iPad. iOS feels smoother and cleaner on Apple devices than Android does on Android devices. My reason for sticking with Android is mostly due to Humble Bundle Android packages and SD cards.

As an owner and fan of the Surface Pro 3, I completely understand why some people prefer their iPad. I understand it immediately when shutting off the screen of my SP3 kills of any music I have streaming while cooking. There are usage patterns that just don't work well with the wonderfully designed SP3. What is ironic is how games with touch UIs on iOS often don't have a touch UI in Windows, or the touch UI is horrible, like in the Telltale game The Walking Dead or X-Com Enemy Unknown.

I find it hard to respect the partisan views on mobile platforms.

wolfydog · August 2016

I think ESO is one of the most reasonable MMO's out there as far as price goes.

The cash shop is fairly inexpensive overall compared to other MMO's and all the outfits/hairs and stuff you can buy are unlocked on your account, not just one character.

Some of the new race change and such are pricey, but compared to other games like WOW, its similarly priced to their offering. Its a nice option for someone who has 100's of hours in a character and maybe wants a change or those hardcore players who want to switch to another race to crank 1% more dps due to min maxing.

The fact you can sub for $14.99 with all the benefits they give, crafting bag, dlc access, bonus exp, and other junk, and on top of that, it includes 1500 crowns.

We have to compare ESO to its competition, look at games like Black Desert. It is insanely expenisve cash shop, and partially pay to win. Black Desert is approximately $22-$30 for one outfit for one character. IT cannot be shared. Plus all the cash shop outfits give you bonus stats/exp. In addition, pets are basically a requirement, and these cost $10 each, and you need at least 2 IMO, but in BDO defense here, they have given away pets 2x so far with events in game. Plus many thing in the cash shop have an RNG aspect so you can hope for a better skill for your horse, or a dye, spend money and get crap for results.

BDO even started kind of an optional sub with their value back at $15 a month. Its a great bunch of stuff they include in it, but its not as generous as ESO offering since it does not include a stipend of pearls, which is their crown equivilant. Plus it has more pay to win features like more money from the in game broker and since you can buy everything in BDO its very helpful since the hits you with a 35% tax on every sale.

Out of all the MMO's I have played with a cash shop and the way the system works overall, ESO, IMO has the most value of any game out there. Everything is fairly priced IMO (expect the hero outfits since they are all kind crappy), and the sub is totally worth since you get crowns in addition to DLC access so you always be buying stuff at no extra coast besides a regular sub, which I don't mind at all. Plus if you wanna game cheaply with tons of content you can easily spend a couple months in the base game, then spend $15 one time and play all the DLC and then cancel your sub If you want. Maybe in the future as more and more content is added you might need more then one month for DLC, but I know soon they are coming out with an updated version fo the game that includes all the current DLC so youll have it pera unlocked anyways if you want.

But with all the hours you get just from the base game of ESO, plus if you like a certain outfit or mount and they you make a new toon, even on a new alliance you can still use all your stuff, which is amazing.

Most other MMO's you buy something like a special outfit its locked to one character or maybe race specific. ESO is very generous with this stuff overall which one of the reasons I like this game the best at this point in time. I feel like I am being sold a product at a fair price.

Lysette · August 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Yeah, basically people are starting to line up in two categories: People who own business' and people who work for business'.

The people who own a business or small business or understand free market concepts get that there should be a fair exchange, time = money.

The people who have just been underpaid overworked employees with no concept of how to run a business think that they are owed more from other sectors of society i.e 'meh gamez shuld be free'

This is the very essence of what we are seeing today around us. We must not allow the workers to unite

Not entirely. People want a Steve Jobs or Walmart prices or summer drink days at Mickey Ds pulled in their MMO; by that I mean a business person fighting for low costs to increase sales. When prices are high people will use fraud more often. Just read the multiple reasoning behind pirating they pirate cause costs are too high or the process of obtaining it is too difficult. Reasonable prices create reasonable customers who pay it cause its not a huge loss and it helps the company that got on their good side.

Edit: By steve jobs I mean the 99 cent per song thing. Not the overpriced apple products.

You buy a status symbol if you buy an iphone or an ipad - instead of an android device or windows tablet. That is why people are willing to pay more.

I had no idea I was the owner of a status symbol . I bought Apple because it works well .

Same reason why people buy Mercedes or BMW and not a run of the mill car - it works well. And is a status symbol. And convenience of course, in a mercedes you can still listen to good music when you drive at nearly 200 mph - in another car you have just engine noise. 'And the attention to detail, they have even sound designers for the perfect closing and opening sound for doors.

iPhones cost the same as top Android phones if you buy them with a subsidy.

While I use a Note 4, I find it silly to say that the only reason for favoring an Apple device is status. My wife changed to an iPhone from a Galaxy S4 because 4 years of Android phones was frustrating compared to her experience on an iPad. iOS feels smoother and cleaner on Apple devices than Android does on Android devices. My reason for sticking with Android is mostly due to Humble Bundle Android packages and SD cards.

As an owner and fan of the Surface Pro 3, I completely understand why some people prefer their iPad. I understand it immediately when shutting off the screen of my SP3 kills of any music I have streaming while cooking. There are usage patterns that just don't work well with the wonderfully designed SP3. What is ironic is how games with touch UIs on iOS often don't have a touch UI in Windows, or the touch UI is horrible, like in the Telltale game The Walking Dead or X-Com Enemy Unknown.

I find it hard to respect the partisan views on mobile platforms.

It has it's downsides as well - when my partner gave me the first iPad my first question after looking at it for a while was "and how can I program it" - I asked that as well in an AppleStore - and I just got a look from the staff as if I would be insane to even want to program that thing - haha - different from an Android device, were I can do that without an issue. Not all is perfect. but otherwise it works well and usability is high, just like you said.

Carbonised · August 2016

You're right, it's not charity, I'm paying a lot of godd*mn real money here, so maybe, just maybe, they could use some of that money to fix the godd*mn laggy Cyrodiil servers so you can actually play the game without being thrown out of the game every 10 minutes.

Lysette · August 2016

wolfydog wrote: »

I think ESO is one of the most reasonable MMO's out there as far as price goes.

The cash shop is fairly inexpensive overall compared to other MMO's and all the outfits/hairs and stuff you can buy are unlocked on your account, not just one character.

Some of the new race change and such are pricey, but compared to other games like WOW, its similarly priced to their offering. Its a nice option for someone who has 100's of hours in a character and maybe wants a change or those hardcore players who want to switch to another race to crank 1% more dps due to min maxing.

The fact you can sub for $14.99 with all the benefits they give, crafting bag, dlc access, bonus exp, and other junk, and on top of that, it includes 1500 crowns.

We have to compare ESO to its competition, look at games like Black Desert. It is insanely expenisve cash shop, and partially pay to win. Black Desert is approximately $22-$30 for one outfit for one character. IT cannot be shared. Plus all the cash shop outfits give you bonus stats/exp. In addition, pets are basically a requirement, and these cost $10 each, and you need at least 2 IMO, but in BDO defense here, they have given away pets 2x so far with events in game. Plus many thing in the cash shop have an RNG aspect so you can hope for a better skill for your horse, or a dye, spend money and get crap for results.

BDO even started kind of an optional sub with their value back at $15 a month. Its a great bunch of stuff they include in it, but its not as generous as ESO offering since it does not include a stipend of pearls, which is their crown equivilant. Plus it has more pay to win features like more money from the in game broker and since you can buy everything in BDO its very helpful since the hits you with a 35% tax on every sale.

Out of all the MMO's I have played with a cash shop and the way the system works overall, ESO, IMO has the most value of any game out there. Everything is fairly priced IMO (expect the hero outfits since they are all kind crappy), and the sub is totally worth since you get crowns in addition to DLC access so you always be buying stuff at no extra coast besides a regular sub, which I don't mind at all. Plus if you wanna game cheaply with tons of content you can easily spend a couple months in the base game, then spend $15 one time and play all the DLC and then cancel your sub If you want. Maybe in the future as more and more content is added you might need more then one month for DLC, but I know soon they are coming out with an updated version fo the game that includes all the current DLC so youll have it pera unlocked anyways if you want.

But with all the hours you get just from the base game of ESO, plus if you like a certain outfit or mount and they you make a new toon, even on a new alliance you can still use all your stuff, which is amazing.

Most other MMO's you buy something like a special outfit its locked to one character or maybe race specific. ESO is very generous with this stuff overall which one of the reasons I like this game the best at this point in time. I feel like I am being sold a product at a fair price.

I can agree with that to the most part - it is just these exceptions, when they do something like with the hero costumes and then there is not one statement about that they will change this to the better - this is a practice, which I cannot understand. To ignore their paying customers and even be that rude to offer and sell them such a crap at all - what were they thinking?

jedtb16_ESO · August 2016

yup... couldn't have put it better.

TheUrbanWizard · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Name change and race change are understandable to cost real life money appearance change maybe..... but real life money just for a new hair cut ? You can see why some players are upset.

All a matter of perspective - a friend of ours makes a living from virtual hair - running a big brand hair shop in second life for many years. She is very well off, even a hairstyle costs less than a US$ and a full bundle with all colors is less 2 US$. She has a huge variety of hairstyles for all purposes and pretty much all are flexible - really good quality. She has a lot of regular customers, in the hundreds of thousands, this is what a successful business with virtual hair can be like.

Edit: I just realized that she is running that business now for nearly a decade already - wow, how fast time flows.

I don't understand what that even is..

Sylveria_Relden · August 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

I've said it before... and I'll say it again. I begrudge no business for want of money... that's what business is about.

However, there's no "fine line" between making money and doing it ethically- bending your customers over a table in order to obtain said riches will eventually drive your customers away. Ethics is about people, business is about money- and there's really a balance in doing it ethically.

That said, there's a definitive difference these days between businesses of old, where the owners understood it takes years to develop customer loyalty and trust, and customer relationships were indeed the focus, and the new businesses where it's all about getting rich as quickly as possible, no matter what the "cost".

Hiring all mostly part-timers to avoid having to pay employee benefits, selling cheaply made less than quality products, treating your customers as just another number, etc. All of these factors will indeed cost a business more in the short-term than it will long-term, but most won't care because they plan on sipping martinis on a beach somewhere with your money after they've shut their doors and blamed "the economy" for having to do so.

I encourage all customers to educate themselves- to really research ANY business before you buy products, and as long as you're making an informed decision, by all means continue the business contract. As the saying goes- "Caveat Emptor".

Also makes me wonder why there's no "Angie's List" for software companies these days.

You don't need an Angie's List for ESO. You see the product in the crown store and its costs and then you decide if it is worth that to you.

I find any arguments complaining that ZOS is unethical to be nonsensical. They are letting people play the base game for no additional payment. People can buy the game for $16 and then play for hundreds of hours on just the base game. If they want to play through the DLC, they can DLC binge play for one month and complete all the DLC with a single $15 sub payment.

People are complaining about trivial cosmetic items.

You fail at reading comprehension.

Apparently, you did not read my entire post- you just responded to two words in the last line.

Garbage replies like yours is what causes divisiveness and toxicity in the forums, not complaints.

Lysette · August 2016

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Name change and race change are understandable to cost real life money appearance change maybe..... but real life money just for a new hair cut ? You can see why some players are upset.

All a matter of perspective - a friend of ours makes a living from virtual hair - running a big brand hair shop in second life for many years. She is very well off, even a hairstyle costs less than a US$ and a full bundle with all colors is less 2 US$. She has a huge variety of hairstyles for all purposes and pretty much all are flexible - really good quality. She has a lot of regular customers, in the hundreds of thousands, this is what a successful business with virtual hair can be like.

Edit: I just realized that she is running that business now for nearly a decade already - wow, how fast time flows.

I don't understand what that even is..

Second Life is a social virtual world not really a game - basically a sand box where people create the content and offer it to others to enjoy for free or sell them their creations. Customization of your avatar is big in SL, your basic avatar looks very newbish and does not have a lot of that stuff, what make him/her able to have fun in the world. It is a world for builders, creators on one side - and the consumers and party guys on the other - lots of DJs and awesome events all over the place. What you earn there is retransferable into real dollars, what is appealing to about 5% to try to sell something to others - but just about 140 people make a living from doing this and those are basically the same since a decade - SL was famous for having the first millionaire in RL who became that from being a landlord in Second Life - Anshe Chung - she is still the largest land lord in SL. SL is a platform for social interaction with other residents in a huge variety of ways - a virtual second life. What else this world has to offer is not PG-13 friendly, so I will not talk about this.

the SL marketplace has tens of millions of items for sale and a couple of hundreds of thousand items are even for free or are dollarbies. It is still a quite big market with a yearly volume of about 350 million US$ traded between residents.

clayandaudrey_ESO · August 2016

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

I've said it before... and I'll say it again. I begrudge no business for want of money... that's what business is about.

However, there's no "fine line" between making money and doing it ethically- bending your customers over a table in order to obtain said riches will eventually drive your customers away. Ethics is about people, business is about money- and there's really a balance in doing it ethically.

That said, there's a definitive difference these days between businesses of old, where the owners understood it takes years to develop customer loyalty and trust, and customer relationships were indeed the focus, and the new businesses where it's all about getting rich as quickly as possible, no matter what the "cost".

Hiring all mostly part-timers to avoid having to pay employee benefits, selling cheaply made less than quality products, treating your customers as just another number, etc. All of these factors will indeed cost a business more in the short-term than it will long-term, but most won't care because they plan on sipping martinis on a beach somewhere with your money after they've shut their doors and blamed "the economy" for having to do so.

I encourage all customers to educate themselves- to really research ANY business before you buy products, and as long as you're making an informed decision, by all means continue the business contract. As the saying goes- "Caveat Emptor".

Also makes me wonder why there's no "Angie's List" for software companies these days.

You don't need an Angie's List for ESO. You see the product in the crown store and its costs and then you decide if it is worth that to you.

I find any arguments complaining that ZOS is unethical to be nonsensical. They are letting people play the base game for no additional payment. People can buy the game for $16 and then play for hundreds of hours on just the base game. If they want to play through the DLC, they can DLC binge play for one month and complete all the DLC with a single $15 sub payment.

People are complaining about trivial cosmetic items.

You fail at reading comprehension.

Apparently, you did not read my entire post- you just responded to two words in the last line.

Garbage replies like yours is what causes divisiveness and toxicity in the forums, not complaints.

I am pretty sure that complaints lead to posts like his. So I guess it is a vicious circle.

Lysette · August 2016

But maybe it leads as well to more understanding on both sides - those who support ZOS and their policies and those who reject them or are not happy with them. Opinions can change and a debate about it is not wrong.

Edit: My own opinion about the matter shifted during the months I am playing the game - more or less, i do not have a lot of time to actually play it - in favor of ZOS. I am still thinking, that their way to do things could be a lot better but overall I can give this game from my perspective a 4.5/5 and this went up from a 2/5 - but I am on PC EU, I do not have these troubles like the console players and I am not interested into most of that content, which experiences lag issues - so it is all good to me.

Viiolett · August 2016

Wow wrote: »

MMO games are not charity, but you have to remember as well,
MMO games are not supposed to be a greed's cesspool

Not relevant to the topic but I'm eagerly waiting for The Lusty Argonian Maid Vol 3 ..............

Sylveria_Relden · August 2016

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

I've said it before... and I'll say it again. I begrudge no business for want of money... that's what business is about.

However, there's no "fine line" between making money and doing it ethically- bending your customers over a table in order to obtain said riches will eventually drive your customers away. Ethics is about people, business is about money- and there's really a balance in doing it ethically.

That said, there's a definitive difference these days between businesses of old, where the owners understood it takes years to develop customer loyalty and trust, and customer relationships were indeed the focus, and the new businesses where it's all about getting rich as quickly as possible, no matter what the "cost".

Hiring all mostly part-timers to avoid having to pay employee benefits, selling cheaply made less than quality products, treating your customers as just another number, etc. All of these factors will indeed cost a business more in the short-term than it will long-term, but most won't care because they plan on sipping martinis on a beach somewhere with your money after they've shut their doors and blamed "the economy" for having to do so.

I encourage all customers to educate themselves- to really research ANY business before you buy products, and as long as you're making an informed decision, by all means continue the business contract. As the saying goes- "Caveat Emptor".

Also makes me wonder why there's no "Angie's List" for software companies these days.

You don't need an Angie's List for ESO. You see the product in the crown store and its costs and then you decide if it is worth that to you.

I find any arguments complaining that ZOS is unethical to be nonsensical. They are letting people play the base game for no additional payment. People can buy the game for $16 and then play for hundreds of hours on just the base game. If they want to play through the DLC, they can DLC binge play for one month and complete all the DLC with a single $15 sub payment.

People are complaining about trivial cosmetic items.

You fail at reading comprehension.

Apparently, you did not read my entire post- you just responded to two words in the last line.

Garbage replies like yours is what causes divisiveness and toxicity in the forums, not complaints.

I am pretty sure that complaints lead to posts like his. So I guess it is a vicious circle.

There's a huge difference in responding to a post after thoroughly reading it- and simply reading two "buzz words" that stand out and responding with a divisive view. Had they (he/she) actually read my post they would have realized I was not at all complaining, but rather referencing what customers can do to educate themselves before making a purchase.

I don't put up with trollish behavior in public forums- and I'm certainly not afraid to call it out, either. (whether they believe they're "right" or not.) If they had responded someone who was actually complaining about the game/content/whatever then it would have been fitting of such a response.

I personally try to see people's opinions as exactly that... their opinions, not mine. I don't cause divisiveness in the community by trying to disregard what others say as "nonsensical" just because I disagree with their opinion.