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The Herd (formerly known as the Pact)
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NACtron✭✭✭✭✭During Primetime Pact Militia is the only EP guild that consistently runs more than 16 players. It falls on us to fight multiple AD guilds of varying in size at once who are almost always stacked. In order for Pact Militia to meet the numbers of the AD and sometimes more recently the DC as well we have to run 1.5-2.5 raids. Now half the time in TF there is enough attacks hitting EP that we split our numbers in half and divide them between north and south of the map. That is happening more and more lately as DC has stepped up their game.
In the times where we are stacked fighting AD. Take a moment to look around you. Especially if at Alessia. Count the number of EP wearing Pact Militia Tabards. Then look at the amount of AD standing next to you and tell me what you find.
This is a big, steaming pile.
First of all, the mere fact that your 2.5 raids run under the same banner differentiate you from the competition. You are always in a position to pull this trigger. Where independent raids need to actually negotiate and choose to work together, you always have this option at your disposal. And use it, you do.
One reading your message without ever having faced you in Cyrodiil might think you only use your horde reactively. Anyone who plays on TF knows that this is not the case. You frequently push single, relatively unguarded objectives with multiple raids.
Like it or not, you are an escalator of massive fights. You may be changing your tone in the forums, but you have expressed here and to me before that you enjoy these fights. You just don't enjoy being called out for at this moment what so many others find to be unpleasant.
You should cap your raids at 24 players or less and coordinate, when necessary, with other raids like other leaders do. Let the other two raids form their own guilds. Try ninjaing BM with 24 instead of 50. We will all be rewarded with better gameplay.
First off, One of the biggest strengths of Pact Militia is it's ability to coordinate multiple raids in the same or different locations around the map. You suggest that we should cap ourselves to a single raid of 24. However considering how close this campaign is and how fairly balanced it is right now I don't think we need guilds doing any shrinking or disarming. It seems rather silly in a campaign that is more balanced than any campaign I have seen in the last 8 months.
Second, yes we do use our raids proactively to a certain extent. Based on scouting and common sense we may find that a frontline keep with a lot of defenders needs to have two raids present to take it. Or we may find that sending all of our players down south to bloodmayne is effective as it allows us to use BM as a spring board to split up and hit other locations.
Yeah I agree we may very well escalate a fight by bringing a large force to it but so does every faction every time they bring a large force to a conflict. Dozens of times in the last month we have had to pull off our raids from the north and other locations to hold BRK against massive amounts of AD. If AD didn't bring those numbers we would not have to stack raids. This is, once again a case of someone on the forums looking through the blinders of just one faction and not seeing the bigger picture that all factions are doing the same thing.
Lastly, I will admit happily that I enjoy large combat, I would not be part of Pact Militia if I was not. I think it presents fun challenges and it is a rather enjoyable and is sometimes a "epic" experience. I don't think anyone should feel guilt or shame for playing the game as designed, both in mechanics and in layout of the map. At the same time I enjoy smaller 12v12 combat against guilds like hagnado and the like and will often break off with a raid of our best players to do just that. It's a open world MMO game players are free to experience the plethora of different ways of playing PvP available.
Edited by NACtron on August 4, 2016 9:02PMPact Militia GM
Nikolai the Nord - Stamplar5 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭heystreethawk wrote: »SOME FAST-ACTING FACTS ABOUT STACK ATTACKS:
1) Stack Attacks happen
2) Stack Attacks are morally suspect
3) Stack Attacks are often necessary to accomplish your objective
4) Not all objectives are necessary to accomplish
5) We should always consider how important it is that we take any given castle, keep, or fort which is defended heavily enough to warrant a Stack Attack; the importance of the objective should be weighed against the strain you will potentially place upon the server, the possibility of losing other (and often more important) objectives in the course of the Stack Attack, and-- I honestly think this is the most important element-- the aggravation your stacking and attacking will create in the hearts and noggins of other players, primarily your enemies.
6) We depend on the participation of our allies and enemies alike in order to have fun in this game. People stop playing when they stop having fun, and the game suffers accordingly; we suffer accordingly. It's a ripple effect.
If you're stacking keep after keep, painting the map your favorite color because, I dunno, you just want to do that, you think it looks pretty or it makes you feel like a big shot, the conditions of gameplay on the server will eventually become unpleasant enough that your enemies will just stop playing. For the night, for the week, or maybe altogether. Your enemies stop playing because they're not having fun-- you're not giving them a chance to have fun-- and it gets progressively harder and rarer to find the good fights, and eventually, you realize that you are no longer having fun. You're not in Cyrodiil because it's 2014 and you really want a buff server to give you a mild statistical edge in a Trial. You're in Cyrodiil because you like fighting other players, so think about what you can do to ensure you get to continue fighting people. In the real world, we don't throw sacks of garbage into a nearby river to dispose of them, because we enjoy having an Earth to exist on. Do your part.
(This is also why it's ridiculous to charge after individual players or significantly smaller groups crossing the path of your own group, unless they attack you first or you have an honor-based personal vendetta against that person or something; just let the guy get to where he wants to go. Who cares what devious schemes those 3 blues heading south have in store? Get to your own destination and have a fight in your paygrade.)
7) Stack Attacks happen, from my perspective, much more frequently now than they used to. Offensive sieges became exponentially harder due to the buffs to siege damage, nerfs to purge, nerfs to barriers, nerfs to rapids, and the increased availability / effectiveness of snares 'n' roots all happening simultaneously. I think many of these things should have happened, but the fact that they happened all at once shifted the keep-sackin' dynamic drastically.
Furthermore, we had the re-introduction of camps, which dramatically lengthened the amount of time these sieges last. And the longer a keep/castle/fort is flagged, the more people are going to show up to both attack and defend. If there are no other fights at the time which are roughly as important or as easy to get to as the flagged up siege that we all get to see on our maps, then eventually everyone is going to go there. It's just what happens.
8) This last one will turn into a sunglasses face, which is cool. Sunglasses are cool. As Men'Do mentioned pretty astutely, most Stack Attacks either happen or escalate into insanity entirely by coincidence. You can't coordinate with everyone, and you can't often convince the general population not to go somewhere. I'll call out in zone that Alessia really doesn't need any more help, things are looking pretty good, thank you very much for wanting to help out your Alliance in general and specifically wanting to protect the location of Queen Ayrenn's famous buried treasure trove, but this place is under control and you should definitely consider a different location if you want to help out.
Then people start yelling back NO WAY MAN, WE NEED EVERYONE HERE RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE STILL ENEMIES ALIVE AND NOTHING IS FINE. SOS SOS SOS SOS. Shrug.
BONUS FAST-ACTING STACK ATTACK FACT:
All stack attack facts are pointed in the general direction of the air that we mutually breathe, and none of them were crafted with the intention of wagging fingers at any specific individuals, groups, or alliances. They are things I think we all should consider.
This is all well and good but to be honest that "8)" didn't turn into a sunglasses face and that has me wondering what other lies you're spreading. Your reputation is tarnished. I have been deceived.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster1 -
heystreethawk✭✭✭✭✭heystreethawk wrote: »SOME FAST-ACTING FACTS ABOUT STACK ATTACKS:
1) Stack Attacks happen
2) Stack Attacks are morally suspect
3) Stack Attacks are often necessary to accomplish your objective
4) Not all objectives are necessary to accomplish
5) We should always consider how important it is that we take any given castle, keep, or fort which is defended heavily enough to warrant a Stack Attack; the importance of the objective should be weighed against the strain you will potentially place upon the server, the possibility of losing other (and often more important) objectives in the course of the Stack Attack, and-- I honestly think this is the most important element-- the aggravation your stacking and attacking will create in the hearts and noggins of other players, primarily your enemies.
6) We depend on the participation of our allies and enemies alike in order to have fun in this game. People stop playing when they stop having fun, and the game suffers accordingly; we suffer accordingly. It's a ripple effect.
If you're stacking keep after keep, painting the map your favorite color because, I dunno, you just want to do that, you think it looks pretty or it makes you feel like a big shot, the conditions of gameplay on the server will eventually become unpleasant enough that your enemies will just stop playing. For the night, for the week, or maybe altogether. Your enemies stop playing because they're not having fun-- you're not giving them a chance to have fun-- and it gets progressively harder and rarer to find the good fights, and eventually, you realize that you are no longer having fun. You're not in Cyrodiil because it's 2014 and you really want a buff server to give you a mild statistical edge in a Trial. You're in Cyrodiil because you like fighting other players, so think about what you can do to ensure you get to continue fighting people. In the real world, we don't throw sacks of garbage into a nearby river to dispose of them, because we enjoy having an Earth to exist on. Do your part.
(This is also why it's ridiculous to charge after individual players or significantly smaller groups crossing the path of your own group, unless they attack you first or you have an honor-based personal vendetta against that person or something; just let the guy get to where he wants to go. Who cares what devious schemes those 3 blues heading south have in store? Get to your own destination and have a fight in your paygrade.)
7) Stack Attacks happen, from my perspective, much more frequently now than they used to. Offensive sieges became exponentially harder due to the buffs to siege damage, nerfs to purge, nerfs to barriers, nerfs to rapids, and the increased availability / effectiveness of snares 'n' roots all happening simultaneously. I think many of these things should have happened, but the fact that they happened all at once shifted the keep-sackin' dynamic drastically.
Furthermore, we had the re-introduction of camps, which dramatically lengthened the amount of time these sieges last. And the longer a keep/castle/fort is flagged, the more people are going to show up to both attack and defend. If there are no other fights at the time which are roughly as important or as easy to get to as the flagged up siege that we all get to see on our maps, then eventually everyone is going to go there. It's just what happens.
8) This last one will turn into a sunglasses face, which is cool. Sunglasses are cool. As Men'Do mentioned pretty astutely, most Stack Attacks either happen or escalate into insanity entirely by coincidence. You can't coordinate with everyone, and you can't often convince the general population not to go somewhere. I'll call out in zone that Alessia really doesn't need any more help, things are looking pretty good, thank you very much for wanting to help out your Alliance in general and specifically wanting to protect the location of Queen Ayrenn's famous buried treasure trove, but this place is under control and you should definitely consider a different location if you want to help out.
Then people start yelling back NO WAY MAN, WE NEED EVERYONE HERE RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE STILL ENEMIES ALIVE AND NOTHING IS FINE. SOS SOS SOS SOS. Shrug.
BONUS FAST-ACTING STACK ATTACK FACT:
All stack attack facts are pointed in the general direction of the air that we mutually breathe, and none of them were crafted with the intention of wagging fingers at any specific individuals, groups, or alliances. They are things I think we all should consider.
This is all well and good but to be honest that "8)" didn't turn into a sunglasses face and that has me wondering what other lies you're spreading. Your reputation is tarnished. I have been deceived.
Worry not! I weave any and all lies seamlessly in with equal and opposite truths. It should turn into a sunglasses face once you tilt your head to the left a bit.GM of Fantasia
I heard those symphonies come quick1 -
Crispen_Longbow✭✭✭✭✭heystreethawk wrote: »heystreethawk wrote: »
8) This last one will turn into a sunglasses face, which is cool. Sunglasses are cool. As Men'Do mentioned pretty astutely, most Stack Attacks either happen or escalate into insanity entirely by coincidence. You can't coordinate with everyone, and you can't often convince the general population not to go somewhere. I'll call out in zone that Alessia really doesn't need any more help, things are looking pretty good, thank you very much for wanting to help out your Alliance in general and specifically wanting to protect the location of Queen Ayrenn's famous buried treasure trove, but this place is under control and you should definitely consider a different location if you want to help out.
.
This is all well and good but to be honest that "8)" didn't turn into a sunglasses face and that has me wondering what other lies you're spreading. Your reputation is tarnished. I have been deceived.
Worry not! I weave any and all lies seamlessly in with equal and opposite truths. It should turn into a sunglasses face once you tilt your head to the left a bit.
It worked!
Crispen Longbow - Daggerfall Covenant (DC): NB - Rank:50 (NA/PC) - RIP (Blue VE, Khole, LoM, MO)
Crispen Longboww - Aldmeri Dominion (AD): NB - Rank:50 (NA/PC) - Crispen's House of Pain RIP (KP, Yellow VE, Omni)
Crispen Longbow-EP - Ebonheart Pact (EP): NB - Rank:50 (NA/PC) - RIP (Red VE)1 -
Seri✭✭✭✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »I can't speak for NA but EU Pact on our server will bring a group of 40 to kill 2 people at a lumber mill then bunny hop on the bodies while telling you your faction sucks (while they are two bars or locked and your faction is at one bar) and that "their ping was fine and it's your own fault Pact lagged all over the place".
It's the same on NA for all three factions. Including the teabags.
Depending on the time, and entire raid (or more) will turn up if a resource flips somewhere. But if that's the argument from the OP, I'm not sure what the point was - the vid he linked was at a keep. I've shown an instance where 28 people followed (and only me) to a resource all the way from the keep wall. I've shown an instance where more than one raid will be at a keep take now that's also fine because it's a keep take?
Ultimately, all factions zerg in PvP (at least for NA) and nothing we write here on the forums is going to change that
EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK3 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭During Primetime Pact Militia is the only EP guild that consistently runs more than 16 players. It falls on us to fight multiple AD guilds of varying in size at once who are almost always stacked. In order for Pact Militia to meet the numbers of the AD and sometimes more recently the DC as well we have to run 1.5-2.5 raids. Now half the time in TF there is enough attacks hitting EP that we split our numbers in half and divide them between north and south of the map. That is happening more and more lately as DC has stepped up their game.
In the times where we are stacked fighting AD. Take a moment to look around you. Especially if at Alessia. Count the number of EP wearing Pact Militia Tabards. Then look at the amount of AD standing next to you and tell me what you find.
This is a big, steaming pile.
First of all, the mere fact that your 2.5 raids run under the same banner differentiate you from the competition. You are always in a position to pull this trigger. Where independent raids need to actually negotiate and choose to work together, you always have this option at your disposal. And use it, you do.
One reading your message without ever having faced you in Cyrodiil might think you only use your horde reactively. Anyone who plays on TF knows that this is not the case. You frequently push single, relatively unguarded objectives with multiple raids.
Like it or not, you are an escalator of massive fights. You may be changing your tone in the forums, but you have expressed here and to me before that you enjoy these fights. You just don't enjoy being called out for at this moment what so many others find to be unpleasant.
You should cap your raids at 24 players or less and coordinate, when necessary, with other raids like other leaders do. Let the other two raids form their own guilds. Try ninjaing BM with 24 instead of 50. We will all be rewarded with better gameplay.
First off, One of the biggest strengths of Pact Militia is it's ability to coordinate multiple raids in the same or different locations around the map. You suggest that we should cap ourselves to a single raid of 24. However considering how close this campaign is and how fairly balanced it is right now I don't think we need guilds doing any shrinking or disarming. It seems rather silly in a campaign that is more balanced than any campaign I have seen in the last 8 months.
Second, yes we do use our raids proactively to a certain extent. Based on scouting and common sense we may find that a frontline keep with a lot of defenders needs to have two raids present to take it. Or we may find that sending all of our players down south to bloodmayne is effective as it allows us to use BM as a spring board to split up and hit other locations.
Yeah I agree we may very well escalate a fight by bringing a large force to it but so does every faction every time they bring a large force to a conflict. Dozens of times in the last month we have had to pull off our raids from the north and other locations to hold BRK against massive amounts of AD. If AD didn't bring those numbers we would not have to stack raids. This is, once again a case of someone on the forums looking through the blinders of just one faction and not seeing the bigger picture that all factions are doing the same thing.
Lastly, I will admit happily that I enjoy large combat, I would not be part of Pact Militia if I was not. I think it presents fun challenges and it is a rather enjoyable and is sometimes a "epic" experience. I don't think anyone should feel guilt or shame for playing the game as designed, both in mechanics and in layout of the map. At the same time I enjoy smaller 12v12 combat against guilds like hagnado and the like and will often break off with a raid of our best players to do just that. It's a open world MMO game players are free to experience the plethora of different ways of playing PvP available.
Well said. I expect you will get a lot of flak from the expert 1vxers.2 -
heystreethawk✭✭✭✭✭Crispen_Longbow wrote: »heystreethawk wrote: »heystreethawk wrote: »
8) This last one will turn into a sunglasses face, which is cool. Sunglasses are cool. As Men'Do mentioned pretty astutely, most Stack Attacks either happen or escalate into insanity entirely by coincidence. You can't coordinate with everyone, and you can't often convince the general population not to go somewhere. I'll call out in zone that Alessia really doesn't need any more help, things are looking pretty good, thank you very much for wanting to help out your Alliance in general and specifically wanting to protect the location of Queen Ayrenn's famous buried treasure trove, but this place is under control and you should definitely consider a different location if you want to help out.
.
This is all well and good but to be honest that "8)" didn't turn into a sunglasses face and that has me wondering what other lies you're spreading. Your reputation is tarnished. I have been deceived.
Worry not! I weave any and all lies seamlessly in with equal and opposite truths. It should turn into a sunglasses face once you tilt your head to the left a bit.
It worked!
I am LOVING the variety of activities on display here! Thanks CrispenGM of Fantasia
I heard those symphonies come quick0 -
Lord_Draevan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Removed, wrong thread.Edited by Lord_Draevan on August 5, 2016 11:47PMI'm a man of few words. Any questions?NA/PC server0
