REFUND REQUEST, WTH ZOS I paid 3500 crowns when you stealth nerfed CP buffs???????

starkerealm · August 2016

imnotanother wrote: »

I am looking for some help understanding the situation.

Does this affect all races? Is it specific CP perks?

Kinda, sorta. It affects all characters indiscriminately.

If your race gives you +9% stam regen and your CP gives you another +10%, you're supposed to get +19%, but there was a bug which would give you another +0.9%, because the bonuses were being calculated separately, instead of adding them together and multiplying the base value.

Unsent.Soul · August 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

just like WTH is that????!!!!

Combat & Gameplay
General
Fixed an issue where percentage bonuses to the same type of stat (Magicka Recovery, Max Magicka, etc.) would stack multiplicatively rather than additively. This will result in some stats changing slightly (generally going down).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/281584/pc-mac-patch-notes-v2-5-5#latest

The fact that it is in the patch notes means it is most definitely not a stealth nerf, just a nerf.

Also, this is an MMO, they nerf and buff stuff all the time.

Just in case this wasn't clear...

starkerealm · August 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just so everyone knows, the regen nerf affects every character across the board. AND IT IS EXTREMELY NOTICEABLE. There is a big difference in sustain between before the patch and what we have now. It's very difficult to run non-sustain builds anymore unless you have amazing group support.

It's noticeable, but the actual statistical change isn't really that much. But it will wreck your timing.

starkerealm · August 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

This seems to be a slippery slope now that you can pay with real money for a race change.

You pay real money to get the stats and racial abilities that you want and then it gets changed on you?

It's kind of like buying a car and a month later the dealer comes around and takes the radio out to put in a different one.

More like you're playing an MMO and a patch hits.

Dusho_Edin · August 2016

[/quote] This is the best laugh of the day; thanks!

I mean, BUFF?! [snip][/quote]

I would have to agree here, I cannot recollect a single time this game has buffed anything. This game has been full nerf after nerf, as far as i can tell the only thing that keeps happening is ZOS caters to those who QQ the most.
[edited to remove quote]

ADarklore · August 2016

Dusho_Edin wrote: »

This is the best laugh of the day; thanks!

I mean, BUFF?! [snip][/quote]

I would have to agree here, I cannot recollect a single time this game has buffed anything. This game has been full nerf after nerf, as far as i can tell the only thing that keeps happening is ZOS caters to those who QQ the most.

[/quote]

I will remind you of the buff to Destruction Staff's Wall of Elements a couple months back that finally made it worthwhile and one of the best AoE's in the game right now.
[edited to remove quote]

GivvumBoane · August 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

This seems to be a slippery slope now that you can pay with real money for a race change.

You pay real money to get the stats and racial abilities that you want and then it gets changed on you?

It's kind of like buying a car and a month later the dealer comes around and takes the radio out to put in a different one.

Or, it's like buying a car, then getting a factory recall because something is not working properly

Runs · August 2016

I understand the anger of this being changed. But why are you asking for a refund of your race change over it? The change happened with the patch, thus BEFORE you changed races.

Reverb · August 2016

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

This seems to be a slippery slope now that you can pay with real money for a race change.

You pay real money to get the stats and racial abilities that you want and then it gets changed on you?

It's kind of like buying a car and a month later the dealer comes around and takes the radio out to put in a different one.

Or, it's like buying a car, then getting a factory recall because something is not working properly

No, this is more like buying a Honda then demanding a refund because you were hoping your Honda would actually be a Tesla. You don't get a refund becsuse, you know, there's nothing wrong with the Honda, and you knew it was a Honda.

The OP paid for a race change, and changed race to Redguard.

SanTii.92 · August 2016

Doesn't seem too stealthy to me

GivvumBoane · August 2016

Reverb wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

This seems to be a slippery slope now that you can pay with real money for a race change.

You pay real money to get the stats and racial abilities that you want and then it gets changed on you?

It's kind of like buying a car and a month later the dealer comes around and takes the radio out to put in a different one.

Or, it's like buying a car, then getting a factory recall because something is not working properly

No, this is more like buying a Toyota then demanding a refund because you were hoping your Honda would actually be a Tesla. You don't get a refund becsuse, you know, there's nothing wrong with the Honda, and you knew it was a Honda.

The OP paid for a race change, and changed race to Redguard.

I get your point. I was commenting to the previous post referring to a car dealer changing out the radio after selling the car. My point was stats were never meant to be multiplicative. They were supposed to be additive. Thus not functioning properly. Hence, a factory recall using automotive analogies as the previous poster.

Woeler · August 2016

Funny how it is called a stealth nerf and OP quotes the patch notes. L2Read I guess?

radiostar · August 2016

Ideally, when you click on one of the 4 classes the passives should show up so you can make an informed choice of what race you want to play.

But since Z is largely doing OJT, that doesn't happen yet.

If you could actually see what the current passives are before you commit to a race, that would be fairer for the player. Oh, wait . . .

Ep1kMalware · August 2016

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Umm what stealth nerf dare I ask? (PS4 player)

@RAGUNAnoOne they changed how they calculate some things.. so it's additive instead of multiplicative I think. Not 100% sure you may want to look into it. Wasn't stealth though, I'm positive it was in the patch notes.

... although it is guar*** and trials/PvP were balanced around the multiplicative bonuses hence causing issues it did make the gap between races a bit less severe which people wanted so lesson to forum users be careful what you wish for you may get it.

I've always wondered about that. people qq and zos gives them something to qq about. Then all the people that actually enjoy the game end up missing out on what they were enjoying because of the vulgar minoritt]y.

I can't help but to feel machaivellian about the whole thing and dislike people more than I probably should. Not that I liked them anyway.

Cinbri · August 2016

This is not templar ninja change, so it can't be counted as stealth nerf

starkerealm · August 2016

Reverb wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

This seems to be a slippery slope now that you can pay with real money for a race change.

You pay real money to get the stats and racial abilities that you want and then it gets changed on you?

It's kind of like buying a car and a month later the dealer comes around and takes the radio out to put in a different one.

Or, it's like buying a car, then getting a factory recall because something is not working properly

No, this is more like buying a Toyota then demanding a refund because you were hoping your Honda would actually be a Tesla. You don't get a refund becsuse, you know, there's nothing wrong with the Honda, and you knew it was a Honda.

The OP paid for a race change, and changed race to Redguard.

More like buying a VW Diesel... oh, wait.

starkerealm · August 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Umm what stealth nerf dare I ask? (PS4 player)

@RAGUNAnoOne they changed how they calculate some things.. so it's additive instead of multiplicative I think. Not 100% sure you may want to look into it. Wasn't stealth though, I'm positive it was in the patch notes.

... although it is guar*** and trials/PvP were balanced around the multiplicative bonuses hence causing issues it did make the gap between races a bit less severe which people wanted so lesson to forum users be careful what you wish for you may get it.

I've always wondered about that. people qq and zos gives them something to qq about. Then all the people that actually enjoy the game end up missing out on what they were enjoying because of the vulgar minoritt]y.

I can't help but to feel machaivellian about the whole thing and dislike people more than I probably should. Not that I liked them anyway.

As someone who's actually played MMOs where the devs got petulant about the QQ crowd... this isn't what it looks like. Similar, but it would be something far less subtle than, "this isn't how this stuff is supposed to be stacking so we sorted that out." We'd be seeing actual boss mechanics getting revised, or entire races getting outright nerfed.

Alcast · August 2016

altemriel wrote: »

Seriously WTH ZOS, tell me please why did I pay 3500 crowns to change my race of my char when you stealth nerfed the CP buffs, with that damn calculation change????!!

tell me ZOS....

Nerf? no it is a fix that makes the game more healthy. And what has that to do with your crowns?

Nerouyn · August 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

This seems to be a slippery slope now that you can pay with real money for a race change.

You pay real money to get the stats and racial abilities that you want and then it gets changed on you?

It's kind of like buying a car and a month later the dealer comes around and takes the radio out to put in a different one.

That's a problem.

Sure, any online game can try to hide behind the disclaimer that "stuff changes" but when you have racial bonuses which are seen by many as necessary to achieve an optimal build, and you sell race changes, what you are effectively selling is that optimal build. Changing those racials then becomes quite contentious.

Though in this case it doesn't seem to be a change so much as a bug fix.

Vipstaakki · August 2016

They are not selling optimal builds they are selling the change for you to change your race.
As to why you would want to change your race is up to you entirely.

Icarus42 · August 2016

There are bugs...

oRioNoTime · August 2016

Man a STEALTH nerf is when they don't write it in the patch notes, it was there.

There was also some posts in the forum and it came out togheter with the race change...

BenLocoDete · August 2016

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I don't think you get the idea of a 'Refund' The product you bought worked as intended. It changed your race and did exactly what it promised. Therefore there is no base for a refund.

I believe there is but you'll get nothing from the forum mod or PR here - best get your case to the court if your country has a good refund law. Otherwise:

ESO ToS:

"5. Paid Services

Some Services require payment of a fee. You must have an Account and pay the applicable fees to participate in those Services. For information about subscription fees, membership fees and other fees for particular Services, visit Your particular Service's product page or Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com.

FEES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND, EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW AND SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART."

Bouldercleave · August 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

This seems to be a slippery slope now that you can pay with real money for a race change.

You pay real money to get the stats and racial abilities that you want and then it gets changed on you?

It's kind of like buying a car and a month later the dealer comes around and takes the radio out to put in a different one.

If the radio wasn't working like it was intended, you would welcome them coming out.

newtinmpls · August 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

Also, this is an MMO, they nerf and buff stuff all the time.

Even aside from being a die-hard alt-o-holic and roleplayer this is why I would never race change.

Wollust · August 2016

It's a good change. Everything that reduces our endless sustain (in both PvE and PvP) is good and needed, because a cooldownless game like ESO should be about resource management.

alexkdd99 · August 2016

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

This seems to be a slippery slope now that you can pay with real money for a race change.

You pay real money to get the stats and racial abilities that you want and then it gets changed on you?

It's kind of like buying a car and a month later the dealer comes around and takes the radio out to put in a different one.

If the radio wasn't working like it was intended, you would welcome them coming out.

I guess some people definition of working as intended is different. How do we know it was not working how they originally intended and they just changed there mind. If they are wasting their time fixing this type of "bug" when I can't even go into orsinium on xbox then their priorities are way out of line.
If they didn't have a mountain of bugs which seem to be going no where then fixes like these would not cause as much anger.

Cously · August 2016

Considering the changes ZOS makes in ESO, for instance taking Mag DKS from godness of pvp to the hardest class to play in it, you should get used by now. The balance and changes in this game is literally a roller coster. It's why I don't bother change my race and do my best with what I have. Chase min/max in the game when it always been so volatile is costly, risky and time consuming.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · August 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

To be fair, it was not a stealth nerf, you could have read the patch notes before buying the change. And this is a good change just like increasing ability costs last patch, resource management is where the skill gap comes from in this game so needing to be at least a little bit aware of your resources is a good thing for PVE and PVP gameplay.

No more nerf! PVE end game trials difficulty is same then nerf due to pvp..

Its literally impossible for me to run out of magic on trial bosses, that is not engaging game play because I don't even think about what I'm doing. We used to have to raid with spell sym to manage our mana, I want resource management to be a thing.

Also, wot?

Agree,one of the things they pointed out about this game before it released was how important resources management is.After a couple of years and many changes and unbalances resources management became easy and something you dont need to be much aware.Im not playing the game atm but im glad they are trying to make resources management important again.Now they need to balance the massive DPS meta that the game has become.

babedenny · August 2016

Somebody paid for a race change thinking it would give them a competitive advantage. I actually think this is hilarious. Even if they didn't nerf it today, they might in a month, or two months, or next year. Heck they might even buff it again someday. It's common knowledge this happens all the time with most MMO's. It's not like it's a secret or something.

Good god this stuff just kills me...