I wonder why people keep saying DK's can't heal

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Dk can heal very well. On PC/eu are some players who outperfom many templars with their DK healer. I think the only problem is that you have to put a lot of effort and work into a DK-healer to be competitive. What most of you don't consider is how well a DK can support its group. The only thing that the DK lacks in is that you don't have any skill tu restore stamina for your group members.

Not quite.

While a DK can fill in admirably you are selling templars way short.

DK's have no way to remove harmful effects from themselves and the group. While DK's don't have the ability to give themselves Major+Minor fortitude, endurance, and intellect, while also giving allies Major fortitude, endurance and intellect. They do not get increased Resurrection speed, nor the passive mending.

Templar's are not the preferred healer by accident they have the best passives and utility skills for a healer.

That is not to say that DK's cannot be healers, simply their passives and skills are not designed around supporting a healer.

I'm going to disagree in the sense that I personally feel that Dragon Knights are the second best healers followed closely by nightblades to the obvious #1 Templar. Sorcerer healing would be more reasonable if pets were an instant cast, and were not also something forced on both bars - but that is another issue entirely. DK's are really good healers, I don't know what you are talking about. Everyone can cleanse, and Efficient purge is excellent in that role. I realize you have to pvp for it, but then again I have to pvp to get caltrops or vigor on my stamina builds. Sometimes you need to step out of a class skillset to get what is needed for a job. Cleansing Ritual is better and worse than Efficient purge, there's no denying that. There are pros and cons, obviously in order to give greater competency in this field while still affording the Purge user a greater number of targets, without synergy. Obsidian Shield is fantastic. I had extensive play in City of Heroes as a Tank, but also as a mastermind and a healer, and I was very aware of the efficacy that a 'bubble' build can have. One also notes that the DK 'bubble' activates earthen heart, which feeds DK ultimates. The DK bubble (obsidian shield) also offers a major mending buff. Igneous weapons is a fantastic team utility buff.

I'm not arguing with you that DK is a better healer than Templar, but I am arguing that there are some fantastic DK healers out there. I'm also not saying that for some tasks the Templar healer is simply superior because it has stamina gimmies (Spear) and of course repentance which helps in steamrolling content, something no one else can supply. I'm just saying don't sell the DK healer short, they have something to offer as well (this holds true of NB as well). As for a Sorcerer healer, I personally they need love, but that whole class needs a redesign as far as I'm concerned (I'm not a huge fan of toggles in a game with so few buttons available).

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

CasNation wrote: »

DK is quite good as a healer. In my opinion, they are the second best after templar for the support they can bring to the group with Igneous weapons, minor brutality, crowd control and shields.

Nightblades are also interesting, but they don't come close to the support capabilities of the dk. They just add more damage.

Agreed. This is the brief response to what I just said. :P

Kraynic · August 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I don't think this is true, while passives through CP can give Magicka back, and Undaunted can give Magicka back I'm pretty sure other class skill lines do not offer Magicka return.

I suspect that the point was every class has access to the last skill for resto staff. The morph Siphon Spirit returns 1% magicka on hit as well as the heal.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

I think @Autolycus can explain better cause he's playing a DK healer for long time than me.

I agree with this 100%. I didn't mention the resurrection speed concern, because I really didn't think it would matter. Anyone who seriously plays Templar knows the resurrection speed passive is more useful on a DD than anyone else. Tanks are too busy keeping the boss mad, and Healers are too busy keeping people buffed, supported, and alive. Also, the bursty way in which (A lot of) Templars heal probably makes it so they need to (generally) res faster than other healing classes built more around a steady stream of healing. Again this is a generalization, and I'd like to add the better Templars vary their healing more, and do not rely as much on burst but it was worth mentioning.

Edit: I'd like to just mention as well that obviously Res-speed bonus has value in PVP, and as someone who regularly plays Templar I don't care if I'm playing stamplar, tankplar, or healplar, I will always try to resurrect as many people as possible because that is a strength of the Class and should be leveraged toward the teamwork it is meant for.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

Sinolai wrote: »

I am a sorc healer using mainly resto staff, Undaunted and alliance war abilities. Sometimes 1-2 sorc skills slotted for CC and self-survavility. If I can do it like that so can everyone else.

I'm most impressed by the Sorcerer healers that make it work.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

Essiaga wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shaiba wrote: »

As a templar healer and a DK healer, I need to answer in this topic

DK's are good at healing. In term of pure healing, all classes can do the job honestly (and in term of pure healing templar isn't the "master" class).

Why people prefer to play as a templar for healing purposes ?
Templar are great for giving ressources back (with next update (today ) and master resto staff 160 CP non-templar healer will be competitive again for this purpose), so if someone like to support his group by giving ressources back templar was the master for that (until today's update). Cause it's the easiest route.

Why people don't bother playing non-templar healer ?
Cause someone told them that "only templars can heal lolz", and yeah they won't try other classes but they'll repeat the same *** to new players. Rinse and repeat. Cause they don't want to support their team via the tools provided by these classes (CC, buff, shields, tons of damage, ...), they want to provide other support abilities. Cause it's harder to master than templar (if you want to be competitive in giving stamina back you'll have to farm a lot vDSA 160 CP).

It makes me smile when people says that resurrection speed is an advantage as a healer. As a healer our job is to keep people alive (even on templar), in 4 man dungeon if you don't suck your teammates won't die, in those cases this passives become almost useless, in harder raid you'll be too busy to rez, so again useless passive. The only time when I don't find this passive useless is for PvP purposes.

Major mending is easy to get too on all classes (templar it's activated on active skills too (you have to cast Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage to have it), DK it's an active skills (Igneous Shield), you can have it via heavy attacks from resto staff too for sorc and NB).

The only thing templar are better at is supporting stamina management, and clean harmful effects.

Now DK have great tools for healing too. Major Mending via Igneous Shield, good buffs for the whole team, AoE shields, Cauterize... They have the tools to be good at healing purposes.

I think @Autolycus can explain better cause he's playing a DK healer for long time than me.

What is it about today's update that is changing giving resources to teammates?

Masters Resto Staff regens stam with Healing Springs ... EDIT THAT ... grand healing ... the other morph.

Wow, that's pretty awesome - gave you an insightful @Essiaga . I missed that one, and its very useful information.

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

@Toc de Malsvi I think where people view something like a DK or NB as superior is in a scenario where the whole team is overpowered with respect to the challenge of the content. In that instant, being able to pump out maximum healing is just not that helpful. You want more damage, and a DK can go a long way toward pumping out aoe damage while also keeping the team alive in that environment. The DK can keep a nice steady flow of heal ticks along with shields all the while burning down mobs. In this scenario I think the DK and the NB are superior to the Templar, and I'm going to assume that is what people are talking about. PvP is another animal entirely, where pumping out maximum healing definitely has a place, but then again so do the buffs of a healing DK. At any regard that's just my take of what people's points of view are.

NBrookus · August 2016

I wouldn't call Trinimac a great set for a DK healer. But on my pve tank (when she was magicka), I needed to cast a lot of shields and it procs very frequently. Since it was available in jewelry and the 4 piece was also good for a mag DK tank, using the 5th piece just added some group buffs and heals in what would otherwise be an orphan slot. Any heals I added to the group also freed up the healer to do some damage with her higher magicka pool.

Shaiba · August 2016

I don't think this is true, while passives through CP can give Magicka back, and Undaunted can give Magicka back I'm pretty sure other class skill lines do not offer Magicka return.

You didn't understand my point . I'll try to make it clearer :
Every classes can give magicka back cause the best tools for that are coming from Weapon skill tree (someone mentioned siphon spirit, I'll add Elemental drain from the destruction staff tree) and Undaunted skill tree (Mystic Orbs). So yeah every classes have access to the best tools for magicka support. And you talked about the CP passives (To be honest I was purely thinking about weapons/undauted skill tree when I posted my previous post), thank you for adding that too . Hope it's clearer now

Autolycus · August 2016

DKs make for very strong healers. To say that they have no ability to purge is outright false (check your Alliance War Support tree).

Cauterize is the weakest of all class "burst" heals, but to use it as a burst heal would be to use it improperly anyway. It's best used as a HoT and can be treated as a flex skill. It does have some burst potential, but it is not the clutch that BoL is. Burst healing with Cauterize is most viable in a dungeon setting, rather than a trial, however it does serve as a useful burst heal on a dps bar (again, emphasizing dungeons).

Master's Resto staff (particularly infused trait) is a very strong contender against shards. I ran through numbers briefly on this, noting that in terms of ongoing sustain, Master's Resto is the most efficient and (from a group perspective) effective means of returning stamina. Shards takes the cake when a single person needs a large amount in a short period of time. Otherwise Master's Resto is more efficient.

Other than that, DKs are more or less comparable to any other class. Each class provides a minor buff (in the case of DKs, it's Brutality). Major Mending is as readily accessible to them as it is for Templars, the only real difference is that one comes with a purify synergy and a HoT, the other comes with a damage shield. And yes, the damage shield is useful, albeit situationally. One such example is in the new dungeon, Ruins of Mazzatun. I don't want to spoil too much, but two bosses in this dungeon have mechanics that can be largely hedged with a DK healer with proper timing on Igneous Shield.

I ran through the new dungeons on my DK healer last night, and can say with full confidence that there was not a scenario in which I believed a DK healer was sub-par (or even more difficult by comparison) than with other classes. Stamina and magicka were both an issue for dps on the final boss of RoM, both of which I was able to accommodate. Three of the four in group had never been there before (of course, it just released) and we completed every boss within 2-3 attempts.

Imho, BiS gear for healing right now is 5 SPC + 5 Gossamer + Master's Resto Infused. I'm sure other healers will prefer different sets, but this is what I believe given experience (my own, and my group's). This also allows for a destro or DW off-bar.

exeeter702 · August 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

To be fair, the pro non templar healer crowd almost has to, with how 9 times out of 10 the blind furor that occurs when templar is mentioned as not being the defacto end game healer and certain players respond as if there is no greater an offense than to suggest such a thing.

Templar healers are not the defacto end game healers.

Autolycus · August 2016

exeeter702 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

To be fair, the pro non templar healer crowd almost has to, with how 9 times out of 10 the blind furor that occurs when templar is mentioned as not being the defacto end game healer and certain players respond as if there is no greater an offense than to suggest such a thing.

Templar healers are not the defacto end game healers.

Also to be fair, noting that I agree with your perspective, this stigma was present and undeniably true for the majority of this game's history to-date. This changed largely with the TG update (particularly the Major Mending addition to resto staff) and even since then, there has been a very large influx of new and returning players, at least judging by personal experience in game (I have no raw data on new/returning players, just what I see).

New players see what they see - in other words, they pick a class for the first time, and based solely on descriptions of skills (or even the teaser when you create a character) and see the plethora of support and healing capabilities of a Templar, compared to the minor exposure (if any) of the other classes to healing utility. The other three classes aren't exactly "labeled" as healers from the get-go, so why should the less experienced, less informed crowd assume otherwise? Those who genuinely seek that information and want to do something other than Templar healing often find themselves here, where the level of indecisiveness and toxicity and bias is at its peak.

There is something unique about every class that makes them each strong healers. The ongoing debate as to which healer is the "best" is never going to end, and if we're going to be realistic here: It doesn't matter. It is my (perhaps unpopular) opinion that the person behind the character is what makes the "best" healer, and class is largely irrelevant. Again I note that it wasn't always this way, but this is true today. I've been healing as a DK since the Lower Craglorn days, and back then the only thing DKs had going for them was Major Mending. I faced a great deal of backlash and uncertainty when bringing him into competitive content, even from guildies. I've even had people forego running with me (without giving it a chance) simply because I was a DK. But aside from the occasional pug (through which I would have no personal ties), all of those people have since acknowledged its viability and they still run with me today.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

To be fair, the pro non templar healer crowd almost has to, with how 9 times out of 10 the blind furor that occurs when templar is mentioned as not being the defacto end game healer and certain players respond as if there is no greater an offense than to suggest such a thing.

Templar healers are not the defacto end game healers.

Also to be fair, noting that I agree with your perspective, this stigma was present and undeniably true for the majority of this game's history to-date. This changed largely with the TG update (particularly the Major Mending addition to resto staff) and even since then, there has been a very large influx of new and returning players, at least judging by personal experience in game (I have no raw data on new/returning players, just what I see).

New players see what they see - in other words, they pick a class for the first time, and based solely on descriptions of skills (or even the teaser when you create a character) and see the plethora of support and healing capabilities of a Templar, compared to the minor exposure (if any) of the other classes to healing utility. The other three classes aren't exactly "labeled" as healers from the get-go, so why should the less experienced, less informed crowd assume otherwise? Those who genuinely seek that information and want to do something other than Templar healing often find themselves here, where the level of indecisiveness and toxicity and bias is at its peak.

There is something unique about every class that makes them each strong healers. The ongoing debate as to which healer is the "best" is never going to end, and if we're going to be realistic here: It doesn't matter. It is my (perhaps unpopular) opinion that the person behind the character is what makes the "best" healer, and class is largely irrelevant. Again I note that it wasn't always this way, but this is true today. I've been healing as a DK since the Lower Craglorn days, and back then the only thing DKs had going for them was Major Mending. I faced a great deal of backlash and uncertainty when bringing him into competitive content, even from guildies. I've even had people forego running with me (without giving it a chance) simply because I was a DK. But aside from the occasional pug (through which I would have no personal ties), all of those people have since acknowledged its viability and they still run with me today.

@autolycus, @sinolai and other Sorcerer healers who make it work on the top end of the game: I'm intrigued but what you do and I'm wondering if any of you have recommendations toward Sorcerer healing? It is a build I've never bothered to try, but perhaps there is something fun there I have missed.

exeeter702 · August 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

To be fair, the pro non templar healer crowd almost has to, with how 9 times out of 10 the blind furor that occurs when templar is mentioned as not being the defacto end game healer and certain players respond as if there is no greater an offense than to suggest such a thing.

Templar healers are not the defacto end game healers.

Also to be fair, noting that I agree with your perspective, this stigma was present and undeniably true for the majority of this game's history to-date. This changed largely with the TG update (particularly the Major Mending addition to resto staff) and even since then, there has been a very large influx of new and returning players, at least judging by personal experience in game (I have no raw data on new/returning players, just what I see).

New players see what they see - in other words, they pick a class for the first time, and based solely on descriptions of skills (or even the teaser when you create a character) and see the plethora of support and healing capabilities of a Templar, compared to the minor exposure (if any) of the other classes to healing utility. The other three classes aren't exactly "labeled" as healers from the get-go, so why should the less experienced, less informed crowd assume otherwise? Those who genuinely seek that information and want to do something other than Templar healing often find themselves here, where the level of indecisiveness and toxicity and bias is at its peak.

There is something unique about every class that makes them each strong healers. The ongoing debate as to which healer is the "best" is never going to end, and if we're going to be realistic here: It doesn't matter. It is my (perhaps unpopular) opinion that the person behind the character is what makes the "best" healer, and class is largely irrelevant. Again I note that it wasn't always this way, but this is true today. I've been healing as a DK since the Lower Craglorn days, and back then the only thing DKs had going for them was Major Mending. I faced a great deal of backlash and uncertainty when bringing him into competitive content, even from guildies. I've even had people forego running with me (without giving it a chance) simply because I was a DK. But aside from the occasional pug (through which I would have no personal ties), all of those people have since acknowledged its viability and they still run with me today.

I agree completely, Zos has handled educating new players on the nuances if this games class / role / skill design very poorly.

exeeter702 · August 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

To be fair, the pro non templar healer crowd almost has to, with how 9 times out of 10 the blind furor that occurs when templar is mentioned as not being the defacto end game healer and certain players respond as if there is no greater an offense than to suggest such a thing.

Templar healers are not the defacto end game healers.

Also to be fair, noting that I agree with your perspective, this stigma was present and undeniably true for the majority of this game's history to-date. This changed largely with the TG update (particularly the Major Mending addition to resto staff) and even since then, there has been a very large influx of new and returning players, at least judging by personal experience in game (I have no raw data on new/returning players, just what I see).

New players see what they see - in other words, they pick a class for the first time, and based solely on descriptions of skills (or even the teaser when you create a character) and see the plethora of support and healing capabilities of a Templar, compared to the minor exposure (if any) of the other classes to healing utility. The other three classes aren't exactly "labeled" as healers from the get-go, so why should the less experienced, less informed crowd assume otherwise? Those who genuinely seek that information and want to do something other than Templar healing often find themselves here, where the level of indecisiveness and toxicity and bias is at its peak.

There is something unique about every class that makes them each strong healers. The ongoing debate as to which healer is the "best" is never going to end, and if we're going to be realistic here: It doesn't matter. It is my (perhaps unpopular) opinion that the person behind the character is what makes the "best" healer, and class is largely irrelevant. Again I note that it wasn't always this way, but this is true today. I've been healing as a DK since the Lower Craglorn days, and back then the only thing DKs had going for them was Major Mending. I faced a great deal of backlash and uncertainty when bringing him into competitive content, even from guildies. I've even had people forego running with me (without giving it a chance) simply because I was a DK. But aside from the occasional pug (through which I would have no personal ties), all of those people have since acknowledged its viability and they still run with me today.

@autolycus, @sinolai and other Sorcerer healers who make it work on the top end of the game: I'm intrigued but what you do and I'm wondering if any of you have recommendations toward Sorcerer healing? It is a build I've never bothered to try, but perhaps there is something fun there I have missed.

And take no offense to this as I mean none, but your mentality is indicative of the core issue....

Players in this game, particularly newer ones, develop this preconceived notion that healing on anything other than a templar, tanking on anything other than a dragon knight, and doing anything else but dps on sorc and nb is in some way unorthodox and going "against the grain" of the games intended design. Which as of late, based entirely on the progressive changes thst Zos has been making, is absolutely and positively false without debate.

To answer your question, sorcs have recently recieved 2 particularly potent healing tools. First is the twilight monarch heal, which is stronger than templars breath of life with the caveat of being ttied to a pet thst must be managed, an absolutely fair trade and a perfect example of parallel skills that take different approaches to achieve the same goal. This is a recurring theme through the games skill design. The other recent change is with negate, one of its morphs now provides a very strong aoe heal on top of its added utility. In this case is by every right exclusive to the healing sorc as no dps sorc is ever going to slot it for a pve group encounter that matters.

On top of that you weave in some resto staff skills and the built in sorc cc utility + group wide minor prophecy and you are generally set.

Now of course there is overlap, a dk tank should be ccing you say, a dps sorc can contribute the same passive buffs, and thus.... a dps magplar if need be, can just as easily provide stam regen without obstruction to there rotation.

SolarCat02 · August 2016

Which class is the best healer?

I think all classes are best, in different situations/teams/fights.

Better question for a healer is, "Which class do you play best as a healer?"

That's the only answer that really matters, and it is going to vary per person. And it's STILL going to vary by situation/team/FIGHT, among those who have multiple classes of healer.

Autolycus · August 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

@autolycus, @sinolai and other Sorcerer healers who make it work on the top end of the game: I'm intrigued but what you do and I'm wondering if any of you have recommendations toward Sorcerer healing? It is a build I've never bothered to try, but perhaps there is something fun there I have missed.

I'm sure there are other ways to go about this, but here are my two cents:

Gear selection is very similar to that of every other class. SPC is going to be BiS. Strong sets to pair with it are Infallible Aether, Gossamer, Willpower + Monster set / Torugs, or Healer. Note that your purge comes from Alliance War Support, magicka sustain support through Necrotic Orb synergies, and stamina sustain support through Master's Resto.

Resto staff abilities are the core of your healing (as is the case for all classes). Healing Springs and Combat Prayer are must-have skills, but I like to think there is room for flexibility. This bar setup is a good place to start (assuming it's not quite to your liking):

Bar 1: Inner Light, Twilight, Springs, Rapid Regen, Combat Prayer, Absorption Field (or Meteor)
Bar 2: Inner Light, Twilight, Surge, Empowered Ward, (flex) Ele Drain / Siphon / Necro Orb, Aggressive Horn

You can adjust this setup to accommodate other skills too, such as Bound Aegis, or in the event you want to use dps skills.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2016

exeeter702 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

To be fair, the pro non templar healer crowd almost has to, with how 9 times out of 10 the blind furor that occurs when templar is mentioned as not being the defacto end game healer and certain players respond as if there is no greater an offense than to suggest such a thing.

Templar healers are not the defacto end game healers.

Also to be fair, noting that I agree with your perspective, this stigma was present and undeniably true for the majority of this game's history to-date. This changed largely with the TG update (particularly the Major Mending addition to resto staff) and even since then, there has been a very large influx of new and returning players, at least judging by personal experience in game (I have no raw data on new/returning players, just what I see).

New players see what they see - in other words, they pick a class for the first time, and based solely on descriptions of skills (or even the teaser when you create a character) and see the plethora of support and healing capabilities of a Templar, compared to the minor exposure (if any) of the other classes to healing utility. The other three classes aren't exactly "labeled" as healers from the get-go, so why should the less experienced, less informed crowd assume otherwise? Those who genuinely seek that information and want to do something other than Templar healing often find themselves here, where the level of indecisiveness and toxicity and bias is at its peak.

There is something unique about every class that makes them each strong healers. The ongoing debate as to which healer is the "best" is never going to end, and if we're going to be realistic here: It doesn't matter. It is my (perhaps unpopular) opinion that the person behind the character is what makes the "best" healer, and class is largely irrelevant. Again I note that it wasn't always this way, but this is true today. I've been healing as a DK since the Lower Craglorn days, and back then the only thing DKs had going for them was Major Mending. I faced a great deal of backlash and uncertainty when bringing him into competitive content, even from guildies. I've even had people forego running with me (without giving it a chance) simply because I was a DK. But aside from the occasional pug (through which I would have no personal ties), all of those people have since acknowledged its viability and they still run with me today.

@autolycus, @sinolai and other Sorcerer healers who make it work on the top end of the game: I'm intrigued but what you do and I'm wondering if any of you have recommendations toward Sorcerer healing? It is a build I've never bothered to try, but perhaps there is something fun there I have missed.

And take no offense to this as I mean none, but your mentality is indicative of the core issue....

Players in this game, particularly newer ones, develop this preconceived notion that healing on anything other than a templar, tanking on anything other than a dragon knight, and doing anything else but dps on sorc and nb is in some way unorthodox and going "against the grain" of the games intended design. Which as of late, based entirely on the progressive changes thst Zos has been making, is absolutely and positively false without debate.

To answer your question, sorcs have recently recieved 2 particularly potent healing tools. First is the twilight monarch heal, which is stronger than templars breath of life with the caveat of being ttied to a pet thst must be managed, an absolutely fair trade and a perfect example of parallel skills that take different approaches to achieve the same goal. This is a recurring theme through the games skill design. The other recent change is with negate, one of its morphs now provides a very strong aoe heal on top of its added utility. In this case is by every right exclusive to the healing sorc as no dps sorc is ever going to slot it for a pve group encounter that matters.

On top of that you weave in some resto staff skills and the built in sorc cc utility + group wide minor prophecy and you are generally set.

Now of course there is overlap, a dk tank should be ccing you say, a dps sorc can contribute the same passive buffs, and thus.... a dps magplar if need be, can just as easily provide stam regen without obstruction to there rotation.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't like the toggle build of Sorcerer and I've played with pet-healing and its not exactly my cup of tea. Its nothing personal, I just haven't enjoyed Sorcerer healing versus say NB/DK. Maintaining the pet is a big part of that.

exeeter702 · August 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I do not think that there is any class that cannot play as a primary healer and complete all content. I also agree with posters who suggest that DK's may be the second best healers.

I do think however that players over simplify the actual benefits from Templar healing while over playing the benefits of other classes. I think this may be an exaggerated response due to the prevalence of ignorant players stating things such as "DK's cant heal".

It is clear that we do not all agree on this.

To be fair, the pro non templar healer crowd almost has to, with how 9 times out of 10 the blind furor that occurs when templar is mentioned as not being the defacto end game healer and certain players respond as if there is no greater an offense than to suggest such a thing.

Templar healers are not the defacto end game healers.

Also to be fair, noting that I agree with your perspective, this stigma was present and undeniably true for the majority of this game's history to-date. This changed largely with the TG update (particularly the Major Mending addition to resto staff) and even since then, there has been a very large influx of new and returning players, at least judging by personal experience in game (I have no raw data on new/returning players, just what I see).

New players see what they see - in other words, they pick a class for the first time, and based solely on descriptions of skills (or even the teaser when you create a character) and see the plethora of support and healing capabilities of a Templar, compared to the minor exposure (if any) of the other classes to healing utility. The other three classes aren't exactly "labeled" as healers from the get-go, so why should the less experienced, less informed crowd assume otherwise? Those who genuinely seek that information and want to do something other than Templar healing often find themselves here, where the level of indecisiveness and toxicity and bias is at its peak.

There is something unique about every class that makes them each strong healers. The ongoing debate as to which healer is the "best" is never going to end, and if we're going to be realistic here: It doesn't matter. It is my (perhaps unpopular) opinion that the person behind the character is what makes the "best" healer, and class is largely irrelevant. Again I note that it wasn't always this way, but this is true today. I've been healing as a DK since the Lower Craglorn days, and back then the only thing DKs had going for them was Major Mending. I faced a great deal of backlash and uncertainty when bringing him into competitive content, even from guildies. I've even had people forego running with me (without giving it a chance) simply because I was a DK. But aside from the occasional pug (through which I would have no personal ties), all of those people have since acknowledged its viability and they still run with me today.

@autolycus, @sinolai and other Sorcerer healers who make it work on the top end of the game: I'm intrigued but what you do and I'm wondering if any of you have recommendations toward Sorcerer healing? It is a build I've never bothered to try, but perhaps there is something fun there I have missed.

And take no offense to this as I mean none, but your mentality is indicative of the core issue....

Players in this game, particularly newer ones, develop this preconceived notion that healing on anything other than a templar, tanking on anything other than a dragon knight, and doing anything else but dps on sorc and nb is in some way unorthodox and going "against the grain" of the games intended design. Which as of late, based entirely on the progressive changes thst Zos has been making, is absolutely and positively false without debate.

To answer your question, sorcs have recently recieved 2 particularly potent healing tools. First is the twilight monarch heal, which is stronger than templars breath of life with the caveat of being ttied to a pet thst must be managed, an absolutely fair trade and a perfect example of parallel skills that take different approaches to achieve the same goal. This is a recurring theme through the games skill design. The other recent change is with negate, one of its morphs now provides a very strong aoe heal on top of its added utility. In this case is by every right exclusive to the healing sorc as no dps sorc is ever going to slot it for a pve group encounter that matters.

On top of that you weave in some resto staff skills and the built in sorc cc utility + group wide minor prophecy and you are generally set.

Now of course there is overlap, a dk tank should be ccing you say, a dps sorc can contribute the same passive buffs, and thus.... a dps magplar if need be, can just as easily provide stam regen without obstruction to there rotation.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't like the toggle build of Sorcerer and I've played with pet-healing and its not exactly my cup of tea. Its nothing personal, I just haven't enjoyed Sorcerer healing versus say NB/DK. Maintaining the pet is a big part of that.

I see, didn't mean to assume as much. Often I see comments on similar topics with elements such as "making it work", "impressive to see" or something of the like.

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

DKs make for very strong healers. To say that they have no ability to purge is outright false (check your Alliance War Support tree).

I don't necessarily disagree although I think its a role better performed by a Templar. I was addressing class skills not skills from outside the class line, as all classes have access to those skills which means given class A has 1 option and class B has 2 then I would say class B has the superior setup based on options.

Autolycus · August 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

DKs make for very strong healers. To say that they have no ability to purge is outright false (check your Alliance War Support tree).

I don't necessarily disagree although I think its a role better performed by a Templar. I was addressing class skills not skills from outside the class line, as all classes have access to those skills which means given class A has 1 option and class B has 2 then I would say class B has the superior setup based on options.

It doesn't matter. Healing in ESO is not a class-based role. Every healer, including Templars, must make use of the skills accessible to them outside of their class. It's true for both pvp and pve, maybe even moreso for pvp when we account for the human element.

Templars don't have access to Major Prophecy through class skills, but DKs do. Does that mean DKs are better? Of course not. It's largely irrelevant. What matters is that the healer in question makes use of the tools at his/her disposal, not that their class has everything a healer could possibly need all neatly balled up into a single tree.

This is why taking things out of context can be detrimental to the larger discussion. I noted that it isn't about the class, it's about the person behind the class.

Xvorg · August 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

DKs make for very strong healers. To say that they have no ability to purge is outright false (check your Alliance War Support tree).

I don't necessarily disagree although I think its a role better performed by a Templar. I was addressing class skills not skills from outside the class line, as all classes have access to those skills which means given class A has 1 option and class B has 2 then I would say class B has the superior setup based on options.

It doesn't matter. Healing in ESO is not a class-based role. Every healer, including Templars, must make use of the skills accessible to them outside of their class. It's true for both pvp and pve, maybe even moreso for pvp when we account for the human element.

Templars don't have access to Major Prophecy through class skills, but DKs do. Does that mean DKs are better? Of course not. It's largely irrelevant. What matters is that the healer in question makes use of the tools at his/her disposal, not that their class has everything a healer could possibly need all neatly balled up into a single tree.

This is why taking things out of context can be detrimental to the larger discussion. I noted that it isn't about the class, it's about the person behind the class.

It is not the car you drive what makes the difference... it is the pilot.

f047ys3v3n · August 2016

Honestly, I prefer dk heals in PVP to everything else. The Templar advantage in heals of having mending though ground applied abilities is worthless with the movement in PVP and the tendency of good groups to target healers with their ranged sorcs screams for dk's reflect. Give me a flappy flap dk healer and your sorc cannons will kill themselves while my healers keep the group up and my spinny stams cut your group to ribbons.

Good luck finding mag dk's to do all this for you though. lol.

f047ys3v3n · August 2016

Xvorg wrote: »

It is not the car you drive what makes the difference... it is the pilot.

This is a meaningless statement. A professional racecar driver will always beat a two year old and race car driver in a gulf cart will always loose to and 80 year old grandmother two footing it. So, is it the driver or the vehicle that matter? Plainly it is both. Some classes are clearly better for some things than others. I would argue that Templar is plainly the best heals in PVE and DK is plainly the best in PVP. This is not particularly close. The Templar will put out bigger heals in PVE and have the emergency breath button. The DK will not only survive but also put out massive damage to the ranged cannons that will kill the Templar in PVP. It is actually that simple.

Autolycus · August 2016

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

It is not the car you drive what makes the difference... it is the pilot.

This is a meaningless statement. A professional racecar driver will always beat a two year old and race car driver in a gulf cart will always loose to and 80 year old grandmother two footing it. So, is it the driver or the vehicle that matter? Plainly it is both. Some classes are clearly better for some things than others. I would argue that Templar is plainly the best heals in PVE and DK is plainly the best in PVP. This is not particularly close. The Templar will put out bigger heals in PVE and have the emergency breath button. The DK will not only survive but also put out massive damage to the ranged cannons that will kill the Templar in PVP. It is actually that simple.

Totally false. I have personally outhealed Templars on my DK in pve. I've seen Healing Springs crits for well over 10k per tick. Two updates ago, it was not even feasibly possible for a Templar to achieve this; I've tested it alongside of some of my best Templar healers, and it just wasn't doable at the time. This all changed with additions and revisions to Major Mending, and now these things are attainable by all classes. As such, I defer to my original stance that the player behind the character is what matters. Every class has access to every utility in one form or another.

I'm also the DK healer you prefer in pvp, just thought I might throw that bit in there too

*flaps wings* *flies away*

mrvbalc · August 2016

I have completed most of the vet content as a mag dk healer(incl vet dsa). I don't see any problems in a dk healer. But I hv never played any other healer class. This is my one n only healer.

Xvorg · August 2016

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

It is not the car you drive what makes the difference... it is the pilot.

This is a meaningless statement. A professional racecar driver will always beat a two year old and race car driver in a gulf cart will always loose to and 80 year old grandmother two footing it. So, is it the driver or the vehicle that matter? Plainly it is both. Some classes are clearly better for some things than others. I would argue that Templar is plainly the best heals in PVE and DK is plainly the best in PVP. This is not particularly close. The Templar will put out bigger heals in PVE and have the emergency breath button. The DK will not only survive but also put out massive damage to the ranged cannons that will kill the Templar in PVP. It is actually that simple.

You mean that the only good gankers are NBs too? Or that a Sorc is unable tank?

Obviously if you compare a templar healer that's been around for 2 years with a DK healer for one month, the templar beats the DK, but if you compare a templar and a DK that've been healing here for 2 years, the best one is the best player and not the one who chose a specific class.

Daraugh · August 2016

I have limited experience healing on a DK, but the class did just fine for me. My husband heals in trials with a magicka DK. We complete the trials and he enjoys the class, so imho the DK fills a healer role just fine. It's certainly not a go-to class if a brand new player is looking to roll up a healer though, apart from my husband and myself, I've only ever played with two healing DKs.

ArchMikem · August 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Now, I have never played one but as I'm looking through their talents, it looks like to me that they have a lot of mitigation/shields and plus they have a somewhat spammy battle heal like NB with obsidian shard.

Now, of course they aren't templars but, no class is as good as templars with healing.

you can't have an opinion on something you've never tried to play..

An uneducated opinion is still an opinion.