Guild Recruitment/Kicking Members - is this ethical?

SFBryan18 · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Not that they are hurting anyone by kicking them out of a "trading" guild.

Hurting, no. Causing inconvenience, yes. If I have quality merchandise listed in their store, and they kick me, I will need to wait for it to either sell or expire. Prices constantly go up and down in the market and they would be cutting me off from my products. Besides that, perhaps I would pay a contribution to stay. It's just rude not to inform members of all the rules. Luckily, my five trading guilds are very professional. On top of their very active sales tax, they make gold from raffles. The prizes are very desired items too.

Slurg · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Got deja vu reading this and realized this poll was from September. I'm curious whether this unnamed guild still exists or if its members bailed on it for one of the many good trade guilds that are happy to keep members who contribute through store purchases and sales, not additional mandatory fees.

lol yeah, I was surprised to see this thread come back to the front page too As for the guild, I no longer remember for sure what it was called - there were a few that I was seeing advertised a lot around then, and it was one of those, I just don't remember which. There's one that I think it is, and if it is that one then it's still active. I really don't remember for sure though...

Well, whoever they are, I hope they have changed their ways. If they still have this requirement, I hope they at least tell people up front now that their guild defines inactivity as not paying the weekly protection fee. (Completely unnecessary to charge mandatory fees in my opinion, but hey, I'm not their GM.)

RDMyers65b14_ESO · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

If a guild is demanding fees they best be giving me a garuntee that everything that I put up for sale in the guild store will sell no matter what price I have on it. I have had things for sale at the going rate not sale at all. Fortunately, most of my guilds are RP guilds and don't have silly rules about fees. One of the guilds that I am a part of... I am the only one left even the guild leader is inactive over a month. Why am I still there? Bank space.

SFBryan18 · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

If a guild is demanding fees they best be giving me a garuntee that everything that I put up for sale in the guild store will sell no matter what price I have on it. I have had things for sale at the going rate not sale at all. Fortunately, most of my guilds are RP guilds and don't have silly rules about fees. One of the guilds that I am a part of... I am the only one left even the guild leader is inactive over a month. Why am I still there? Bank space.

How could they guarantee such a thing? Some items are not desired no matter what price you list. The reason guilds have fees is to pay for the trading post. If you do not see a large profit coming from that post, then it is your choice to refuse payment.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

SFBryan18 wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

If a guild is demanding fees they best be giving me a garuntee that everything that I put up for sale in the guild store will sell no matter what price I have on it. I have had things for sale at the going rate not sale at all. Fortunately, most of my guilds are RP guilds and don't have silly rules about fees. One of the guilds that I am a part of... I am the only one left even the guild leader is inactive over a month. Why am I still there? Bank space.

How could they guarantee such a thing? Some items are not desired no matter what price you list. The reason guilds have fees is to pay for the trading post. If you do not see a large profit coming from that post, then it is your choice to refuse payment.

That is the point, they CAN'T. The trading post should come out of profits not be demanded. If they are going to demand payment, I best receive the service for the money. Having a kiosk is not enough for the price of membership.

The_Man_From_Stygia · January 2015

It's OK to do this

I would say it is ethical as long as the member is given all the rules up front. That being said, guilds are totally player run and are for the most part out of any ones control but the people at the top of that guild. You can join 5 here, if you don't like the way one is run, leave it. There is also nothing to prevent you from starting your own guild with like minded players. One solution might be to have a central place where players can go to view the rules/doctrines of all the guilds created. Not that guilds have to follow their own doctrines but it might prevent some misunderstandings.

AlexDougherty · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

econner1b16_ESO wrote: »

I would say it is ethical as long as the member is given all the rules up front.

Yes, if the guild is open, and says this is what we do, fair enough, after all you don't have to join.

SFBryan18 · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

If a guild is demanding fees they best be giving me a garuntee that everything that I put up for sale in the guild store will sell no matter what price I have on it. I have had things for sale at the going rate not sale at all. Fortunately, most of my guilds are RP guilds and don't have silly rules about fees. One of the guilds that I am a part of... I am the only one left even the guild leader is inactive over a month. Why am I still there? Bank space.

How could they guarantee such a thing? Some items are not desired no matter what price you list. The reason guilds have fees is to pay for the trading post. If you do not see a large profit coming from that post, then it is your choice to refuse payment.

That is the point, they CAN'T. The trading post should come out of profits not be demanded. If they are going to demand payment, I best receive the service for the money. Having a kiosk is not enough for the price of membership.

You make a good point. Very active posts should be bringing in more tax profit, but if the post is that good, other guilds might outbid you even if their bid is more than the profits. I heard someone call this "paying for the prestige". So perhaps the fee is to be a part of a guild that is prestigious. Might be worth it for some. To each his own.

Elsonso · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

econner1b16_ESO wrote: »

I would say it is ethical as long as the member is given all the rules up front. That being said, guilds are totally player run and are for the most part out of any ones control but the people at the top of that guild. You can join 5 here, if you don't like the way one is run, leave it. There is also nothing to prevent you from starting your own guild with like minded players. One solution might be to have a central place where players can go to view the rules/doctrines of all the guilds created. Not that guilds have to follow their own doctrines but it might prevent some misunderstandings.

I don't see this as an issue, to be honest.

Early in the game, I used to check out prospective guilds to see whether I was going to have issues with them. Now, I don't bother.

If I am looking for a guild, see an ad, and get an invite, I take it. If it later turns out that the guild is not a good fit, I leave it just as quickly. By taking the guild membership, I am often given the information that I would have to ask for in Zone chat or via whisper. I can get inactive and membership policies, and often the URL to their website.

I can also check on things like Kiosks, how many members they have, and how active their membership is, etc.

I never have to give them gold in dues, voluntary or otherwise. I don't have to dump 30 items into their guild store if I don't want to. I don't have to log on every X days to maintain membership. If I disagree with any guild policies, I can leave, or let myself get kicked. It is not like they are the last guild in Tamriel. They are like buses. Another one will be a long in a few minutes.

Knootewoot · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

Not Ok.

I am in one trading guild only who doesn't do this. They don't even kick me for being on vacation 3 weeks.

If they kick you for not donating? Then leave the guild. You can still access the guild kiosk, unless they hide it or not have it. But there are many other good trading guilds.

TheAngelofDeath99 · July 2016

It's OK to do this

In your case, no it's not ok, because they lied. However if they tell you beforehand, then it IS their guild, so their rules.

malchior · July 2016

It's not OK to do this

Considering that it's a trade guild, the guild gets a cut of the profit so there really should not be a requirement to 'donate' gold. That's double dipping.

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

It's not OK to do this

Yeah, it's pretty unethical to kick people from a guild based on donations. As the whole point of donations are just that. Donations. Lol. As in something meant to be given out of kindness, and out of a CHOICE to give. Not mandatory. As otherwise it wouldn't a donation.

Skinzz · July 2016

It's OK to do this

Of course its okay to kick inactve members. If you dont donate for a high traffic guild store then dont expect to be a freeloader. Guild stores are expensive. I donate weekly for 2 guilds and in return i made millions.

Khenarthi · July 2016

It's not OK to do this

I had this happen to me once. Joined trading guild being recruited from zone chat, donations were described as welcome but not mandatory. Continued my questing for the day, a couple of hours later I got kicked because the recruiter wanted to make more room and I had not donated. It was a wtf moment but I have found much better guilds since then.

Mettaricana · July 2016

It's not OK to do this

Happened to me on ps4 one of the big mournhold guilds booted me 2 hours after payment fees made had 3 days til payment deadline after that left all trade guilds took to fb traders much more profit

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

is it ethical to necro a 2 year old thread the most recent post of which was 6 months old?

BigBragg · July 2016

It's OK to do this

If people get positive results from the guild then they will donate to keep it going. Many of the guild vendors are crazy expensive as it is a highly competitive market. If the guild doesn't suit a players needs they don't have to be in it, there are many to choose from. If it is really all that bad it will wither and die out. A social version of natural selection.

starkerealm · July 2016

It's not OK to do this

TheAngelofDeath99 wrote: »

In your case, no it's not ok, because they lied. However if they tell you beforehand, then it IS their guild, so their rules.

Saw the thread was started by @UrQuan, and for a second thought he was back.

Instead it's just another necrothread.

malchior wrote: »

Considering that it's a trade guild, the guild gets a cut of the profit so there really should not be a requirement to 'donate' gold. That's double dipping.

It really depends on the guild, but the guild cut is not, usually, enough to sustain a decent kiosk. Now, that doesn't mean that compulsory "donations" are the best solution. A lot of guilds will actually get through that using raffles, and voluntary donations.

So, no, it's not inherently unethical to require dues in a guild. But you need to explain that, and relay that information clearly to prospective guild members. Similarly sales quotas aren't entirely unreasonable. If a guild is even partially dependent on the house cut to make their kiosk bids, then there is a real reason to keep the guild to people who are actually active traders, as opposed to people who list up 30 green recipes and log off for 30 days... which reminds me, I need to check and stick some green recipes in my guild's store. :P

starkerealm · July 2016

It's not OK to do this

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

is it ethical to necro a 2 year old thread the most recent post of which was 6 months old?

Here ya go:

ZOS_JohanaB · July 2016

Hey Guys we’re going to close this thread as it is more than a year old. We try not to revive threads that have already died off because there can be information that is no longer relevant and can be misleading. If something from an old thread strikes you interest please create a new thread for a more relevant discussion.