I wonder if people know...

Abeille · July 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Im curious when a mmo stops being young?

Also it isnt just the players that dont understand an mmo. From launch the developers have made choices and decsions and left out things that have always made me wonder if they had ever played a true mmo before.

This is because ESO is not meant to be a "true MMO" - but more a kind of hybrid - and as a hybrid it is difficult to please all kind of players. So it is kind of a trial and error thing, until they will finally get to where they can truely say, this is how we can make most of our audience happy. I think at start they neglected a bit where TES games were coming from and tried to make it an MMO, but this did not work out that well, because a "true MMO" is alien to single-player RPG and especially TES fans.

And that is why most of the people who are more engaged in what you might find in an mmo find the game lacking. And those who want a single player adventure are much happier in their life in eso.

But honestly even beyond that it isnt just content, it was/is things like a working dungeon finder. An easy to navigate auction house. Things that do not intrude on the single player adventure. But are important in a multiplayer experience. It isnt just that they didnt make a typical mmo. They failed to make multiplayer options that people would expect in any multiplayer game. Not just an mmo. At some point saying we arent a typical mmo doesnt cover their mistakes.

As far as an auction house goes, it is questionable, if it was such a bad idea to have trading guilds and no global auction house. I kind of like this system, because prices are not homogenized, but vary quite a bit from place to place. This offers opportunities, which you do not have with a global auction house.

I have no objection with the way the guilds run the auction house. My problem is entirely with the horrible interface to use it.

This I must agree with. I use Master Merchant and Awesome Guild Stores to make the interface more tolerable, but I'm on PC. It must be awful for people on console.

Shadesofkin · July 2016

As I've said in another thread: For every complaint I have, I can name off at least a dozen more praises.

Lysette · July 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

As I've said in another thread: For every complaint I have, I can name off at least a dozen more praises.

If it wouldn't be like that, why would we even want to be here in the first place - of course we like this game, even if we complain about certain things, otherwise we would not even bother to complain and just never login again.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · July 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Also to add, I really didn't see myself playing this game. But honestly, this is a good game actually and is a real treat for someone who enjoys the world and lore of Tamriel.

To be honest, I think a lot of the complaints are made by those who don't have much experience in the MMO world.

So, you don't play this game? Then why are you here?

You misread my post, it's okay.

I didn't, at first because of the whole launching of the game at the start and all the bad rep it got from that. Then last month I decided to give it a try and I'm having a blast! I don't know how bad the launch was but I think they've certainly redeemed themselves.

Oops, I misread didn't for don't. I completely apologize. (insert embarrassment here)

TheHsN · July 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

that the issues in this game aren't that bad compared to most MMO's on the market. Actually, I think Zeni is doing a fine job, actually. Most of the issues I see complained about are pretty common among mmo's and I've been playing MMO's for years.

Currently, the whole race change/name change debacle is in heat now. Actually, 20 bucks per race/name change is quite standard among successful mmo's. It's really not supposed to be a cheap decision that you can make on whim.

Sure, the game has its' faults but the game is also still young and needs more time to mature. All in all though, I say well done to ESO.

HOW MUCH THEY ARE PAYING YOU???

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Im curious when a mmo stops being young?

Also it isnt just the players that dont understand an mmo. From launch the developers have made choices and decsions and left out things that have always made me wonder if they had ever played a true mmo before.

This is because ESO is not meant to be a "true MMO" - but more a kind of hybrid - and as a hybrid it is difficult to please all kind of players. So it is kind of a trial and error thing, until they will finally get to where they can truely say, this is how we can make most of our audience happy. I think at start they neglected a bit where TES games were coming from and tried to make it an MMO, but this did not work out that well, because a "true MMO" is alien to single-player RPG and especially TES fans.

And that is why most of the people who are more engaged in what you might find in an mmo find the game lacking. And those who want a single player adventure are much happier in their life in eso.

But honestly even beyond that it isnt just content, it was/is things like a working dungeon finder. An easy to navigate auction house. Things that do not intrude on the single player adventure. But are important in a multiplayer experience. It isnt just that they didnt make a typical mmo. They failed to make multiplayer options that people would expect in any multiplayer game. Not just an mmo. At some point saying we arent a typical mmo doesnt cover their mistakes.

what they did was take elder scrolls and make it a multiplayer game with the option of playing it as if it were a solo game if you so choose - and that is a hard act to follow.

and no they did not turn it into a wow clone...... thank darwin.

So they made a multiplayer game with out any of the features most would expect in a multiplayer game? No they made a single player game with the option to play a mostly generic multiplayer addon. You had it backwards.

so what are the features that it dosn't have that you would expect in a multiplayer game? it's ok you can leave out the gold spammers and gameable auction house.

edit to add: and not a wow clone.

Ill give you Some easy ones. An auction house interface that isnt a pain to use when searching multiplaces for something. See? It has nothing to do with WoW. A working buff/debuff tracker. This would be useful in solo as well. But more for raids and the like. Again has nothing to do with WoW. A working group finder. Pretty much explains itself.

Again. It has nothing to do with WoW but things that are useful and convient in a multiplayer environment.

Martol · July 2016

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Also to add, I really didn't see myself playing this game. But honestly, this is a good game actually and is a real treat for someone who enjoys the world and lore of Tamriel.

To be honest, I think a lot of the complaints are made by those who don't have much experience in the MMO world.

So, you don't play this game? Then why are you here?

/smh

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Im curious when a mmo stops being young?

Also it isnt just the players that dont understand an mmo. From launch the developers have made choices and decsions and left out things that have always made me wonder if they had ever played a true mmo before.

This is because ESO is not meant to be a "true MMO" - but more a kind of hybrid - and as a hybrid it is difficult to please all kind of players. So it is kind of a trial and error thing, until they will finally get to where they can truely say, this is how we can make most of our audience happy. I think at start they neglected a bit where TES games were coming from and tried to make it an MMO, but this did not work out that well, because a "true MMO" is alien to single-player RPG and especially TES fans.

And that is why most of the people who are more engaged in what you might find in an mmo find the game lacking. And those who want a single player adventure are much happier in their life in eso.

But honestly even beyond that it isnt just content, it was/is things like a working dungeon finder. An easy to navigate auction house. Things that do not intrude on the single player adventure. But are important in a multiplayer experience. It isnt just that they didnt make a typical mmo. They failed to make multiplayer options that people would expect in any multiplayer game. Not just an mmo. At some point saying we arent a typical mmo doesnt cover their mistakes.

what they did was take elder scrolls and make it a multiplayer game with the option of playing it as if it were a solo game if you so choose - and that is a hard act to follow.

and no they did not turn it into a wow clone...... thank darwin.

So they made a multiplayer game with out any of the features most would expect in a multiplayer game? No they made a single player game with the option to play a mostly generic multiplayer addon. You had it backwards.

so what are the features that it dosn't have that you would expect in a multiplayer game? it's ok you can leave out the gold spammers and gameable auction house.

edit to add: and not a wow clone.

Ill give you Some easy ones. An auction house interface that isnt a pain to use when searching multiplaces for something. See? It has nothing to do with WoW. A working buff/debuff tracker. This would be useful in solo as well. But more for raids and the like. Again has nothing to do with WoW. A working group finder. Pretty much explains itself.

Again. It has nothing to do with WoW but things that are useful and convient in a multiplayer environment.

working buff/debuff tracker - sure i've seen an addon for that, but not something i ever thought 'gosh you know what this game really needs?' about. i did say you could leave out the gameable auction house, but would agree the guildtrader ui could be improved - but again not a gamebreaker. group finder could do with an overhaul so i hear, never had a problem with it but again not a gamebreaker.

so, what else do you have? bearing in mind that you said 'so they made a multiplayer game without any of the features most would expect in a multiplayer game' the emphasis is mine just so your statement is clear - without any of the features.

Kalifas · July 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Im curious when a mmo stops being young?

Also it isnt just the players that dont understand an mmo. From launch the developers have made choices and decsions and left out things that have always made me wonder if they had ever played a true mmo before.

This is because ESO is not meant to be a "true MMO" - but more a kind of hybrid - and as a hybrid it is difficult to please all kind of players. So it is kind of a trial and error thing, until they will finally get to where they can truely say, this is how we can make most of our audience happy. I think at start they neglected a bit where TES games were coming from and tried to make it an MMO, but this did not work out that well, because a "true MMO" is alien to single-player RPG and especially TES fans.

Agreed.

It is really hard for game companies to pull off a half single player and half mmo game. This game can successfully be played alone and can be played with group type settings. Not adding in the single vs group pvp elements.

Other mmos have tried. And failed.

Like Wildstar online and The Division.

No it is very easy to make a half single player and half mmo game. What is hard is making the world engaging for solo and multiplayer in one world playing the same content. The only solution most mmos come up with for that is battle scaling.

altemriel · July 2016

of course I agree with the OP, I love this game!!! that is why this is the first game that I love even after more than a year of playing it

!!

CromulentForumID · July 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

It is really hard for game companies to pull off a half single player and half mmo game. This game can successfully be played alone and can be played with group type settings. Not adding in the single vs group pvp elements.

I disagree on this one. For PVE, the grouping outside of dungeons is terrible. You basically end up playing a single-player quest with a friend at the same time. If you friend clicks an objective, will the quest increment? Sometimes. And not always the same way. Can a friend help me with a quest they already did? I guess, if by that you mean they can run alongside you and not see half of the NPCs or objectives.

I bought this game to play with friends and most of the time I end up off on my own when questing because the grouped experience is so very frustrating.

Necrelios · July 2016

I can easily overlook the bugs and giant floating boulders everywhere, even the performance problems since most games have these same issues. For me the only real drawback is the RNG dependent loot system. If they added some kind of token or reputation system for people with terrible luck it would be a huge step in the right direction. Or even an option to re-trait your gear or a gear upgrade system. The could even make it a ESO+ benefit or sell re-trait tokens.

CromulentForumID · July 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ill give you Some easy ones. An auction house interface that isnt a pain to use when searching multiplaces for something. See? It has nothing to do with WoW. A working buff/debuff tracker. This would be useful in solo as well. But more for raids and the like. Again has nothing to do with WoW. A working group finder. Pretty much explains itself.

Again. It has nothing to do with WoW but things that are useful and convient in a multiplayer environment.

I am endlessly frustrated by the lack of those trackers/icons. You just can't rely on visual indicators and little arrows on a health bar when multiple enemies are attacking you. It's hard to learn to be better or how to handle certain encounters when you're guessing about what's hitting you.

I have no idea why we couldn't have icons on one side of the screen showing us the same information that our character sheets shows. IMMERSHUN? I'd want to see that in a single player game.

I am sure I could track down some articles, but I would love to hear from some of the players who were in beta. Were the MMO features there and shouted down by people who wanted Skyrim 2?

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

@jedtb16_ESO

Ah i see. Then let me clear this up. You are correct. I should not have said all. But I will stand by my over all point. That the multiplayer part feels not finished. Or not well thought out. Or maybe just not well supported.

My issues was that this was describe as a multiplayer es game with a solo option. And to me that is backwards.

For example look at this thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/281134/are-you-generally-happy-with-your-gaming-experience/p1

Overall people are happy with the game much like this thread. Most the happy ones are solo players. But the people who arent? Are almost exclusively those who engage in more of the multiplayer parts of the game.

Edits cause the forums own me it seems. Quote is to strongs for me! For the love of pete i cant quote right!

phairdon · July 2016

Thinks race change is a bad idea. Anyhow, its coming and the price should be high. Pictures a mass of stamina sorcs running in the game.
Only played one other mmo. Race change is not a feature in the game, which will be four years old in October.

RebornV3x · July 2016

this game is great its just the PVP that's broken and laggy

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

CromulentForumID wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ill give you Some easy ones. An auction house interface that isnt a pain to use when searching multiplaces for something. See? It has nothing to do with WoW. A working buff/debuff tracker. This would be useful in solo as well. But more for raids and the like. Again has nothing to do with WoW. A working group finder. Pretty much explains itself.

Again. It has nothing to do with WoW but things that are useful and convient in a multiplayer environment.

I am endlessly frustrated by the lack of those trackers/icons. You just can't rely on visual indicators and little arrows on a health bar when multiple enemies are attacking you. It's hard to learn to be better or how to handle certain encounters when you're guessing about what's hitting you.

I have no idea why we couldn't have icons on one side of the screen showing us the same information that our character sheets shows. IMMERSHUN? I'd want to see that in a single player game.

I am sure I could track down some articles, but I would love to hear from some of the players who were in beta. Were the MMO features there and shouted down by people who wanted Skyrim 2?

They wanted a clean ui like skyrim. Why they couldnt be toggles i have no idea.

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

@jedtb16_ESO

Ah i see. Then let me clear this up. You are correct. I should not have said all. But I will stand by my over all point. That the multiplayer part feels not finished. Or not well thought out. Or maybe just not well supported.

My issues was that this was describe as a multiplayer es game with a solo option. And to me that is backwards.

For example look at this thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/281134/are-you-generally-happy-with-your-gaming-experience/p1

Overall people are happy with the game much like this thread. Most the happy ones are solo players. But the people who arent? Are almost exclusively those who engage in more of the multiplayer parts of the game.

Edits cause the forums own me it seems. Quote is to strongs for me! For the love of pete i cant quote right!

ok... i do understand your point = some of the multiplayer aspects are not as polished as they could be, and yes i am using diplomatic language there.

the game is just over two years old, not perfect but what mmo is? there are things that can, and hopefully will, be improved - but that core elder scrolls feel is there and can, again hopefully will, be built on.

the editing quotes thing? yeah, i know.... there are a couple of threads here that i tried to edit quotes in and made a real pigs ear of it.

in the thread you cite - i posted in that because, by and large my experience of the game both solo and in groups has been mostly positive.

Drakoleon · July 2016

Could you please tell me which MMO (BEST MMO) award winner has more problems than ESO?
Moreover which MMO (NOT AWARD WINNER) its PVP is so laggy , baggy and unbalanced after almost 2.5 years?
I play lots of MMOs and PVP wise, ESO is the WORST by far.
20$ for race change while a DLC costs less....its pure greed

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Drakoleon wrote: »

Could you please tell me which MMO (BEST MMO) award winner has more problems than ESO?
Moreover which MMO (NOT AWARD WINNER) its PVP is so laggy , baggy and unbalanced after almost 2.5 years?
I play lots of MMOs and PVP wise, ESO is the WORST by far.
20$ for race change while a DLC costs less....its pure greed

yeah, i agree - a business trying to make money, disgusting.

/end sarcasm.

Drakoleon · July 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Drakoleon wrote: »

Could you please tell me which MMO (BEST MMO) award winner has more problems than ESO?
Moreover which MMO (NOT AWARD WINNER) its PVP is so laggy , baggy and unbalanced after almost 2.5 years?
I play lots of MMOs and PVP wise, ESO is the WORST by far.
20$ for race change while a DLC costs less....its pure greed

yeah, i agree - a business trying to make money, disgusting.

/end sarcasm.

My dear fanboy, only kids that don't really respect the value of money would pay that much

BTW i bet my business diploma that they would make much more money if the price was 1k. Then i would also change 2 or 3 toons but for 3k each i wont.

I'd rather buy the new special edition for 59.99 all DLCs inclusive

Unsent.Soul · July 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Madness1 wrote: »

Yeah I agree with you, 20 bucks is actually a standard price in the MMO world. The thing is, 20 bucks is 20 bucks, even if it is standard it's still harsh considering a few bucks more and you can actually buy the game (on console you can pick it up new for around 10 bucks). Then compare the price of story content... and then I guess you see where I'm going with this.

It's the old "cash store or expansion pack" debate that went on (and to some degree still exits) a few years back. I've always thought that things like this should be given at 5/10 bucks where expansion packs full of story, costumes, ect should be given at 60+. Looking at the market It's a debate I think people like me have lost.

Understandable, I have yet to touch any DLC content since I'm reserving that for lvl50. But I have a feeling these aren't on the same scale as a WoW expansion pack which would be once a year or two and therefore, they are the prices they are in comparison to an ESO dlc which would be smaller yet more frequent. (I do not know the exact prices, I have subscribed)

Anyway, ESO might have done well to just be subscription based and just have everything available. But as it is right now, it's acceptable. I

Not to sound rude but...

You have yet to hit max level?

Haven't played a single part of any dlc?

Have yet to run ANY endgame content?

Have you played pvp?

I feel like you don't have much experience in this game to say how great of a job ZOS has done.

Coming from xbox 1. The game was great up until Orsinium. The whole city is STILL a complete lag fest on xbox. ZOS employees even stated stay out of the city.... with no expected fix date, since the two fixes dealing with the city haven't done anything. Xbox players just know better and for the most part stay out of the city.

DB came out and once again, this has crippled things that once we're smooth and simple. The game lags and crashes now, more than ever.

Long load screens? I wish people were joking but they are still here and very much frustrating.

I'll give ZOS praise, when I can turn in my writs and not fear my character getting stuck and lost forever. Since they've told numerous players that they will no longer move characters because they told us to stay out of wrothgar...

People paid for the dlc and they can't play it...

Every dlc they come out with they break something else, sure, by accident but it still happens.

Toc de Malsvi · July 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

so what are the features that it dosn't have that you would expect in a multiplayer game? it's ok you can leave out the gold spammers and gameable auction house.

edit to add: and not a wow clone.

This is hindering the success of this game. This inherent attitude given by players and developers alike reeks of a jealous hurt emotional response with no valid logical basis.

Blizzard is a massively successful company. World of Warcraft is the most successful MMO to date, it dwarfs other MMO's.

Having an idea of something that can improve on a good product is excellent. Trying to be different for the sake of being different is not.

WoW today is not what WoW was when it was released and it has improved drastically since then. WoW has maintained over 5 million subscribers for a decade, WoW had up to 12 million subscribers at times.

This is akin to being shown a really nice car and saying "yeah I don't want a comparable engine, or comparable seating or crash safety rating. Because I want to be different, I want worse performance because I need to distinguish myself from them."

ESO will never be a "wow clone", but ESO could have gleaned more from what made wow successful. Race change, addons, grouping tools, game feedback.

People today touting the banner of ESO's greatness ignore that ZOS released ESO on console a YEAR late. That it took a YEAR for ZOS to recognize that players of MMO's want some sort of damage feedback.

WoW set a minimum performance benchmark and then worked to make sure everyone could reach that even on a crap laptop, sure they had artwork but they put performance before artwork. It has been clear to me over the last two years that ZOS has prioritized artwork over performance.

I love the artwork in this game, I love the story, I love the combat system. But I would love to get 1/10th of the customer service and performance I had during the time I played WoW.

I played wow for the better part of 7 years and during that time I remember being upset that Blizzard would take down servers within hours of detecting a bug, and had them back up within an hour. That in 2011 when I wanted to restore a character I deleted in 2007, they restored it to me with all his gear and bag inventory. That when something was account bound it really was account bound and not just server bound. I would get annoyed that Blizzard would spend 5 hours each week patching and fixing bugs with a report of everything they did. Now I dream of that kind of service.

If blizzard had an MMO on console I would probably be playing it and not because I like the artwork or story or combat better, but because they have shown a commitment to deliver a better product. They have shown a commitment to trying to help out players and reward them. They have shown a commitment towards giving players what they want and telling them how things work so that players can then push the limits of their capability.

When ESO came out on PC I quit wow and found myself playing nothing but ESO. But then I was deployed and guess which game I was able to play while in Afghanistan in the barracks on crappy internet? It wasn't ESO, I got back into wow during that time simply because I could still play it while ESO wouldn't let me log in half the time. When I returned to the states I waited a month for its release on console to get back into ESO.

This hipster attitude towards WoW is pathetic and hinders the future of what ESO could be.

CapnPhoton · July 2016

I have also seen far worse. The only game I played that ran better (flawlessly actually) was EQOA. But I guess that had to do with the fact that it barely had 350 quests in the whole game.

People need to understand that ESO is a huge game and fixes take time because you can't just look at something without wondering if the fix will mess something else up. Testing needs to happen and it takes time and sometimes trial and error when its back up with the masses running around.

People can either be 'entitled' about it, or they can give a little bit of consideration.

Bugs are not a new thing. I haven't used a piece of software since the 80s/90s cartridges that did not have bugs in it, either patched out or not and some of them did too.