Is it still an exploit to downscale Veteran Sanctum?

LadyNalcarya · July 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I'm just thinking, why would downscaling be considered an exploit though? If you can get the good gear easier, isn't it what everyone is looking for ? Achievements/titles are the only proof of having done something anyway (Stormproof + Baron Poly from vMSA, Ophidian Overlord + color for vSO, etc.). If someone has the gear, but has an unorganised group they won't get past vSO Hardmode anyway, because that thing is hard (hell, even vSO normal mode is hard). So what's the problem ? They can have their Vicious Ophidian and Infaillable Aether pieces but not be able to comlete the content. Or if they can complete it well good for them ! Its more than just about gear.
Anyway, I prefer farming on CP160 its a little bit more fun and my guildies are really nice and fun people to play with.

Why exploiting surveys should be considered an exploit though? People were just getting materials easily, isnt that what everyone's looking for?

Nifty2g · July 2016

How is it an exploit?
The loot from the dungeon doesn't scale the coffer scales to your level like most of those items do

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

How is it an exploit?
The loot from the dungeon doesn't scale the coffer scales to your level like most of those items do

This is basically what everyone is talking about:

A group ready to run vSO makes a Lv47 leader, then everyone goes in. Lv47 person then logs off and hops on their own CR160 while everyone else is on a CR160 and the group runs the trial. All enemies are Lv47 but because we are on CR160s our loot from kills is CR160, including the boss drops of Purple Set pieces. Basically that means vSO sets drop at CR160 and are super easy to farm. This works in ANY Trial, but not in Group Dungeons like Banished Cells. THAT is what everyone is saying is an exploit but again it is not an exploit until Zenimax calls it this.

To be honest though I'm not really sure HOW it works for Trials either lol

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I'm just thinking, why would downscaling be considered an exploit though? If you can get the good gear easier, isn't it what everyone is looking for ? Achievements/titles are the only proof of having done something anyway (Stormproof + Baron Poly from vMSA, Ophidian Overlord + color for vSO, etc.). If someone has the gear, but has an unorganised group they won't get past vSO Hardmode anyway, because that thing is hard (hell, even vSO normal mode is hard). So what's the problem ? They can have their Vicious Ophidian and Infaillable Aether pieces but not be able to comlete the content. Or if they can complete it well good for them ! Its more than just about gear.
Anyway, I prefer farming on CP160 its a little bit more fun and my guildies are really nice and fun people to play with.

Why exploiting surveys should be considered an exploit though? People were just getting materials easily, isnt that what everyone's looking for?

that's just sarcastic and contributes absolutelt nothing to the discussion. I may suggest re-reading a few posts prior to commenting.

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

I'm quoting Patchnotes 2.4.5 for you:

Updates to Sanctum Ophidia
Venture once again into the depths of Sanctum Ophidia!
- Sanctum Ophidia now features a Normal version in addition to the Veteran version.
- New surprises await as the denizens of the Trial have attracted the aid of a new Bannerman, the Serpent Fang.
- Stonebreaker and Ozara have had their difficulty increased. As a result of this change, their accompanying rewards have been improved.
- Items and Weapon sets obtained in this Trial have been updated to max level, which is now Champion 160.
- Some of the items that now scale to Champion 160 have been rebalanced.
- Sanctum Ophidia will now scale to the level of the Trial leader, much like Dungeons do currently.
- When you start the Trial at max level (Champion 160), you will qualify for the Leaderboards.
- Points for Leaderboards are awarded in the same way as other Trials (monster kills, vitality bonus and time).

The only difference is, you cannot use the groupfinder and therefore can't scale up the player.

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

second;y, it's clear you havent actuallt run much sanctum. At this point, I feel comfortable about calling you a liar. Hete is what you would have noticed:

sanctum does not groupscale, like dungeons do. If you're doing the dungeon with a guild, you can't scale everyone up to cp160 like in a dungeon. Obviously the wise choice would be to downscale the trial to the lowest member of the group. Okay, that's pretty normal. Infact, normal enough for it to be an every day occurance. What's also interesting is your omission of 1 important fact: Drops do not drop at cp160 by default, they drop scaled accordinglt to a player's level.

But ZOS said, it does scale like groupdungeons. I guess you are wrong there. But you are right...they scale to the players level (which usually is CP160+). But that's not how it is supposed to be if the players level is higher than the mobs level.

And yeah...you don't know how i play, how often i play and so on. If you look carefully at my signature, you'll notice that i am in one of the 4...6 best raidguilds on PC/EU. Do you really think we didn't farm vSO since they released it? Maybe you noticed we have been the first guild who did vSO on CP160.

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

they fudged the scaling somehow which would be odd that they coded items to scale, with no way to scale the dungeon. I,mediately you'd think exploit, but it just seems weird to call it one looking at the details.

or they could have intended it the entire time. This would also be strange, because zenimax doesn't normally do these things.

But the fact that items themselves are scaling in a dungeon that cannot be groupscaled, only level scaled is definitely not normal(and to even coded that way, I'd imagine that's a lot of code and foenit to simply be arbitrary seems insane).

That's how scaling works if you don't use the group finder for dungeons (strange, but this is possible ). Mobs scale to the leaders level. Loot will be either at the level of the mobs or the players level, whichever is lower. The same scaling should apply to trials and it also does when you are not scaling it to level 49 afaik.

edit: regarding the skipping of bosses. You are doing a tradeoff in this case. faster run but less loot and no achievement which is fair imo. You don't have a tradeoff when scaling SO. You have faster runs and the same loot. Faster runs but craploot is how it should be.

No they didn't. They said it scales the the leader of the group. Groupscaling is different, it scales the whole group to max lef=vel. So if you had a bunch of cp160s and a c=noncp 45 everyone would be considered cp160. activity finder works this way.

The problem isn't the lvl 50 (cp toons) scaling it to lvl 45. It would work the same way if a bunch of lvl 20s scaled it to lvl 15. The advantage is there regardless, it's just more noticable between lvl 45 and lvl 50 players because of the gear cap.

Izaki · July 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I'm just thinking, why would downscaling be considered an exploit though? If you can get the good gear easier, isn't it what everyone is looking for ? Achievements/titles are the only proof of having done something anyway (Stormproof + Baron Poly from vMSA, Ophidian Overlord + color for vSO, etc.). If someone has the gear, but has an unorganised group they won't get past vSO Hardmode anyway, because that thing is hard (hell, even vSO normal mode is hard). So what's the problem ? They can have their Vicious Ophidian and Infaillable Aether pieces but not be able to comlete the content. Or if they can complete it well good for them ! Its more than just about gear.
Anyway, I prefer farming on CP160 its a little bit more fun and my guildies are really nice and fun people to play with.

Why exploiting surveys should be considered an exploit though? People were just getting materials easily, isnt that what everyone's looking for?

There is an exploit for mats ?

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I'm just thinking, why would downscaling be considered an exploit though? If you can get the good gear easier, isn't it what everyone is looking for ? Achievements/titles are the only proof of having done something anyway (Stormproof + Baron Poly from vMSA, Ophidian Overlord + color for vSO, etc.). If someone has the gear, but has an unorganised group they won't get past vSO Hardmode anyway, because that thing is hard (hell, even vSO normal mode is hard). So what's the problem ? They can have their Vicious Ophidian and Infaillable Aether pieces but not be able to comlete the content. Or if they can complete it well good for them ! Its more than just about gear.
Anyway, I prefer farming on CP160 its a little bit more fun and my guildies are really nice and fun people to play with.

Why exploiting surveys should be considered an exploit though? People were just getting materials easily, isnt that what everyone's looking for?

There is an exploit for mats ?

there *wae*. essentially one would pulk out a survey, go to the spot, use their portable banker to bank the survey so it wouldnt be consumed, harvest the nodes, walk 10nft away, withdraw the survey, and repeat.

this bug is a bit different though, as it seems to be an unavoidable mehanic if your group is a mixed vsriation of levels.

I think a large reason nobody got permanantlt banned was because it was the main driving point for many banker sales.

Destruent · July 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

That's how scaling works if you don't use the group finder for dungeons (strange, but this is possible ). Mobs scale to the leaders level. Loot will be either at the level of the mobs or the players level, whichever is lower. The same scaling should apply to trials and it also does when you are not scaling it to level 49 afaik.

edit: regarding the skipping of bosses. You are doing a tradeoff in this case. faster run but less loot and no achievement which is fair imo. You don't have a tradeoff when scaling SO. You have faster runs and the same loot. Faster runs but craploot is how it should be.

No they didn't. They said it scales the the leader of the group. Groupscaling is different, it scales the whole group to max lef=vel. So if you had a bunch of cp160s and a c=noncp 45 everyone would be considered cp160. activity finder works this way.

The problem isn't the lvl 50 (cp toons) scaling it to lvl 45. It would work the same way if a bunch of lvl 20s scaled it to lvl 15. The advantage is there regardless, it's just more noticable between lvl 45 and lvl 50 players because of the gear cap.

Groupscaling --> Dungeon finder thing, doesn't work for trials so not relevant at this point
Dungeonscaling --> works for all groups, dungeons, trials (atleast next patch)

You can't compare scaling through activity-finder with the direct dungeonscaling in trials and groups. It's completely different.
But yeah...as long as you think they changed the system completely without telling anything in patchnotes it's pointless to talk with you

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

there *wae*. essentially one would pulk out a survey, go to the spot, use their portable banker to bank the survey so it wouldnt be consumed, harvest the nodes, walk 10nft away, withdraw the survey, and repeat.

this bug is a bit different though, as it seems to be an unavoidable mehanic if your group is a mixed vsriation of levels.

I think a large reason nobody got permanantlt banned was because it was the main driving point for many banker sales.

That "unavoidable mechanic" only happens if a lvl 45 to 49-player has the crown. But yeah...guess it's unavoidable in most farmruns. I mean, just look at the trading guilds...nearly everyone there is in that levelrange.

Seriously...people are already grinding chars to that levelrange just to use this exploit, bc you usually don't have anyone in that range.
Oh, and i doubt it works for lower levels. I think it's only the change from lvl-scaling gear to CP-scaling gear which makes this even possible.

SanTii.92 · July 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I'm just thinking, why would downscaling be considered an exploit though? If you can get the good gear easier, isn't it what everyone is looking for ? Achievements/titles are the only proof of having done something anyway (Stormproof + Baron Poly from vMSA, Ophidian Overlord + color for vSO, etc.). If someone has the gear, but has an unorganised group they won't get past vSO Hardmode anyway, because that thing is hard (hell, even vSO normal mode is hard). So what's the problem ? They can have their Vicious Ophidian and Infaillable Aether pieces but not be able to comlete the content. Or if they can complete it well good for them ! Its more than just about gear.
Anyway, I prefer farming on CP160 its a little bit more fun and my guildies are really nice and fun people to play with.

Why exploiting surveys should be considered an exploit though? People were just getting materials easily, isnt that what everyone's looking for?

that's just sarcastic and contributes absolutelt nothing to the discussion. I may suggest re-reading a few posts prior to commenting.

Nope, that's exactly what you are saying.

You should consider yourself quite a lucky fella, in almost any other Mmo for exploits like this you would have been banned long time ago.

"350-360 runs" .. but hey! "99% prosperous and training drops" Lmao

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

That's how scaling works if you don't use the group finder for dungeons (strange, but this is possible ). Mobs scale to the leaders level. Loot will be either at the level of the mobs or the players level, whichever is lower. The same scaling should apply to trials and it also does when you are not scaling it to level 49 afaik.

edit: regarding the skipping of bosses. You are doing a tradeoff in this case. faster run but less loot and no achievement which is fair imo. You don't have a tradeoff when scaling SO. You have faster runs and the same loot. Faster runs but craploot is how it should be.

No they didn't. They said it scales the the leader of the group. Groupscaling is different, it scales the whole group to max lef=vel. So if you had a bunch of cp160s and a c=noncp 45 everyone would be considered cp160. activity finder works this way.

The problem isn't the lvl 50 (cp toons) scaling it to lvl 45. It would work the same way if a bunch of lvl 20s scaled it to lvl 15. The advantage is there regardless, it's just more noticable between lvl 45 and lvl 50 players because of the gear cap.

Groupscaling --> Dungeon finder thing, doesn't work for trials so not relevant at this point
Dungeonscaling --> works for all groups, dungeons, trials (atleast next patch)

You can't compare scaling through activity-finder with the direct dungeonscaling in trials and groups. It's completely different.
But yeah...as long as you think they changed the system completely without telling anything in patchnotes it's pointless to talk with you

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

there *wae*. essentially one would pulk out a survey, go to the spot, use their portable banker to bank the survey so it wouldnt be consumed, harvest the nodes, walk 10nft away, withdraw the survey, and repeat.

this bug is a bit different though, as it seems to be an unavoidable mehanic if your group is a mixed vsriation of levels.

I think a large reason nobody got permanantlt banned was because it was the main driving point for many banker sales.

That "unavoidable mechanic" only happens if a lvl 45 to 49-player has the crown. But yeah...guess it's unavoidable in most farmruns. I mean, just look at the trading guilds...nearly everyone there is in that levelrange.
Seriously...people are already grinding chars to that levelrange just to use this exploit, bc you usually don't have anyone in that range.
Oh, and i doubt it works for lower levels. I think it's only the change from lvl-scaling gear to CP-scaling gear which makes this even possible.

you need to excercise more than a partial reading abilitt prior to posting.

I didn't compare the two, i demonstrated the difference, and that is relevant because the item drops act as though it WERE groupscaled.

45-49 doesn't matter, because it will apply anytime a 5 level gap occure. I explained this to you like a 5 year old to be certain you got it. Now the onlt thing that's certain is you aren't reading prior to posting.

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

sAnn92 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I'm just thinking, why would downscaling be considered an exploit though? If you can get the good gear easier, isn't it what everyone is looking for ? Achievements/titles are the only proof of having done something anyway (Stormproof + Baron Poly from vMSA, Ophidian Overlord + color for vSO, etc.). If someone has the gear, but has an unorganised group they won't get past vSO Hardmode anyway, because that thing is hard (hell, even vSO normal mode is hard). So what's the problem ? They can have their Vicious Ophidian and Infaillable Aether pieces but not be able to comlete the content. Or if they can complete it well good for them ! Its more than just about gear.
Anyway, I prefer farming on CP160 its a little bit more fun and my guildies are really nice and fun people to play with.

Why exploiting surveys should be considered an exploit though? People were just getting materials easily, isnt that what everyone's looking for?

that's just sarcastic and contributes absolutelt nothing to the discussion. I may suggest re-reading a few posts prior to commenting.

Nope, that's exactly what you are saying.

You should consider yourself quite a lucky fella, in almost any other Mmo for exploits like this you would have been banned long time ago.

"350-360 runs" .. but hey! "99% prosperous and training drops" Lmao

for what? I demonstrated why this wasn't an exploit in any bannable sense. You just gave mindless rhetoric that held no intellectual value.

try again.

Cuyler · July 2016

It's an exploit and you're a scrub if you do this....SHAME *rings bell*

DRXHarbinger · July 2016

Sharpened elegant sword

swimming in gold.

Destruent · July 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

That's how scaling works if you don't use the group finder for dungeons (strange, but this is possible ). Mobs scale to the leaders level. Loot will be either at the level of the mobs or the players level, whichever is lower. The same scaling should apply to trials and it also does when you are not scaling it to level 49 afaik.

edit: regarding the skipping of bosses. You are doing a tradeoff in this case. faster run but less loot and no achievement which is fair imo. You don't have a tradeoff when scaling SO. You have faster runs and the same loot. Faster runs but craploot is how it should be.

No they didn't. They said it scales the the leader of the group. Groupscaling is different, it scales the whole group to max lef=vel. So if you had a bunch of cp160s and a c=noncp 45 everyone would be considered cp160. activity finder works this way.

The problem isn't the lvl 50 (cp toons) scaling it to lvl 45. It would work the same way if a bunch of lvl 20s scaled it to lvl 15. The advantage is there regardless, it's just more noticable between lvl 45 and lvl 50 players because of the gear cap.

Groupscaling --> Dungeon finder thing, doesn't work for trials so not relevant at this point
Dungeonscaling --> works for all groups, dungeons, trials (atleast next patch)

You can't compare scaling through activity-finder with the direct dungeonscaling in trials and groups. It's completely different.
But yeah...as long as you think they changed the system completely without telling anything in patchnotes it's pointless to talk with you

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

there *wae*. essentially one would pulk out a survey, go to the spot, use their portable banker to bank the survey so it wouldnt be consumed, harvest the nodes, walk 10nft away, withdraw the survey, and repeat.

this bug is a bit different though, as it seems to be an unavoidable mehanic if your group is a mixed vsriation of levels.

I think a large reason nobody got permanantlt banned was because it was the main driving point for many banker sales.

That "unavoidable mechanic" only happens if a lvl 45 to 49-player has the crown. But yeah...guess it's unavoidable in most farmruns. I mean, just look at the trading guilds...nearly everyone there is in that levelrange.
Seriously...people are already grinding chars to that levelrange just to use this exploit, bc you usually don't have anyone in that range.
Oh, and i doubt it works for lower levels. I think it's only the change from lvl-scaling gear to CP-scaling gear which makes this even possible.

you need to excercise more than a partial reading abilitt prior to posting.

I didn't compare the two, i demonstrated the difference, and that is relevant because the item drops act as though it WERE groupscaled.

45-49 doesn't matter, because it will apply anytime a 5 level gap occure. I explained this to you like a 5 year old to be certain you got it. Now the onlt thing that's certain is you aren't reading prior to posting.

So you said yourself it is a bug and we can call it bugusing/exploiting.
Did you test the second thing? I only see people scaling to lvl 45 to 49 to get cp160 gear...noone scales to cp10...100 or whatever even if it is possible.

DRXHarbinger · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

That's how scaling works if you don't use the group finder for dungeons (strange, but this is possible ). Mobs scale to the leaders level. Loot will be either at the level of the mobs or the players level, whichever is lower. The same scaling should apply to trials and it also does when you are not scaling it to level 49 afaik.

edit: regarding the skipping of bosses. You are doing a tradeoff in this case. faster run but less loot and no achievement which is fair imo. You don't have a tradeoff when scaling SO. You have faster runs and the same loot. Faster runs but craploot is how it should be.

No they didn't. They said it scales the the leader of the group. Groupscaling is different, it scales the whole group to max lef=vel. So if you had a bunch of cp160s and a c=noncp 45 everyone would be considered cp160. activity finder works this way.

The problem isn't the lvl 50 (cp toons) scaling it to lvl 45. It would work the same way if a bunch of lvl 20s scaled it to lvl 15. The advantage is there regardless, it's just more noticable between lvl 45 and lvl 50 players because of the gear cap.

Groupscaling --> Dungeon finder thing, doesn't work for trials so not relevant at this point
Dungeonscaling --> works for all groups, dungeons, trials (atleast next patch)

You can't compare scaling through activity-finder with the direct dungeonscaling in trials and groups. It's completely different.
But yeah...as long as you think they changed the system completely without telling anything in patchnotes it's pointless to talk with you

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

there *wae*. essentially one would pulk out a survey, go to the spot, use their portable banker to bank the survey so it wouldnt be consumed, harvest the nodes, walk 10nft away, withdraw the survey, and repeat.

this bug is a bit different though, as it seems to be an unavoidable mehanic if your group is a mixed vsriation of levels.

I think a large reason nobody got permanantlt banned was because it was the main driving point for many banker sales.

That "unavoidable mechanic" only happens if a lvl 45 to 49-player has the crown. But yeah...guess it's unavoidable in most farmruns. I mean, just look at the trading guilds...nearly everyone there is in that levelrange.
Seriously...people are already grinding chars to that levelrange just to use this exploit, bc you usually don't have anyone in that range.
Oh, and i doubt it works for lower levels. I think it's only the change from lvl-scaling gear to CP-scaling gear which makes this even possible.

you need to excercise more than a partial reading abilitt prior to posting.

I didn't compare the two, i demonstrated the difference, and that is relevant because the item drops act as though it WERE groupscaled.

45-49 doesn't matter, because it will apply anytime a 5 level gap occure. I explained this to you like a 5 year old to be certain you got it. Now the onlt thing that's certain is you aren't reading prior to posting.

So you said yourself it is a bug and we can call it bugusing/exploiting.
Did you test the second thing? I only see people scaling to lvl 45 to 49 to get cp160 gear...noone scales to cp10...100 or whatever even if it is possible.

It's always level 45. It's the lowest you need. Still don't get all the salt towards this.

Everyone can do it and takes only 2-3 people not like you're missing out. The more people that do it the better gear they have the more the game progresses and the better chances they have at vMoL etc.

If they ban they ban, if they don't then don't. Just let it ride.

redspecter23 · July 2016

Downscaling is not an exploit. The fact that loot drops at up to cp160 in an instance lower than that is very likely a bug. My opinion is to go ahead and do it for now, but it will probably be fixed soon enough to work like most other scaled instances and drop loot at the level of the dungeon scale at maximum.

Destruent · July 2016

No reason to defend using a bugged gamemechanic imo. And clearing vMoL is not really about gear (you can do it without any SO sets and mostly crafted gear), it's about practicing and learning the mechanics...how does running downscaled SO help with this? you learn nothing there...

ZOS_PeterT · July 2016

We have decided to close this thread.

This was done because we have an official channel for all to discuss an CHEATS/EXPLOITS in game.

If you wish to file a bug report please submit a ticket.