just play fasallas whenever you see any chance your build can make it work. *** up the fotm builds that rely on a strangely powerful vigor skill. all we need is more fasalls and soon we'll see less of the current flavor (and maybe more magsorcs again, and thus less fasallas afterwards, etc)


ps: i totally disagree with "tanks are worthless". unless you ONLY zerg ("play a a """"small scale"""" group") or zergsurf, at least some tankieness is almost a must. 3x k HP are more common than 2x HP at duel spots

It is the lag.................. and the Radiant spammers.

Dracane wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I agree with almost everything. Tanks are the meta as it seems, so I disagree here, Tanks are the top at the moment.
But the supremacy of stamina is getting sickening, it's no longer fun. They have it so easy.

Ahem and this is coming from an UNKILLABLE magika sorcerer... i feel like you are trolling.

Ahahaha I am super squishy. Magicka Sorc is the squishiest class in the game and I am the squishiest of all, because I refuse to shieldstack

Stamina was viable since 1.6 if you're asking me. But it went through the roof with the last few updates. it's overperforming.
Which wouldn't be a problem, if Magicka would finally be brought on par.
Light armor needs buffs, destruction staff as well. These are the things they need to start with and then it's fine.

As you can see, I'm not trolling. maybe you are ?

Lol 2 days ago i logged in right in your face ( i've abandoned my sorc in the sewrers) and I've tried to fight you instead of running away, you have super hig damage and is totally impossible to kill you (i survive 1minute only thanks to a negate) , next time i want to fight you with my stamplar and i'm sure i will lose in any case, the only time that i've almost killed you was with my mag dk.

My point is, against a good player is worthless to use FOTM builds if you know what you are doing any class/race/stam,mag combo is the same.

There is cases where a certain build can carry noobs to the victory but that' all i dont see much of God mode players except for malubeth/reactive/trasmutation templars and since i play with two magika and two stamina i dont see much of a difference and i don't understand the rant from the OP.

But you are not really good, at least not on your Sorc. So you wouldn't beat me on anything I guess. But if you were equal, then you would kill me for sure or at least not get killed.

But you used to be friendlier inside the sewers why not anymore ?

LOL it was like " ok i'm here let see what i can do, o look an enemy" * start attacking "damn is Dracane... " *panic mode activated drop the negate and let's hope to survive...

I know that i'm not really good...
But at least i don't start a thread a week asking to nerf everything that kills me.

I still don't believe that on players on the same skill level there is a lot of difference.

When i'm on my Stamplar that by this thread logic is far superior to magika builds, yes i can 2 shot players but most of them are "NOOBS" , when i encounter players on my very same skill level i always have good fights, and i never have the sensation that i'm superior only because i have a stamina build.

PvP in this game is a joke, balanced and designed by a team that hasn't the first clue and I truly feel sorry for anyone who has wasted hours upon hours of their life to "git gud"

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

On par ? Is that what you magicka users are saying ? Well in case you were here for the past 2 years stamina users haven't been "on par" with magicka and now that stamina gets a tiny little boost "on par" with magicka all you magicka users scream like the sky is falling and yell for nerfs.

The only thing that needs buffs and i mean real buffs are tanks not that garbage a certain dev is trying to shove down tank throats saying "oh tanks need DPS buffs not tank buffs" and "wanna block invest all your traits ad CP into it" .

"Oh use Malubeth and black rose scrub ha ha ha L2P". This is what tanking is considered to many. A OP monster set and one singular tank set yet DPS players have 100s of sets and combos to choose from to use.

Invalid. It doesn't matter if Ayleids enslaved humans for 1000 years. Humans still have no right to undermine everyone else.

And it doesn't matter if Magicka was stronger for 2 years (even though stamina began to be very viable since 1.6)
This doesn't mean stamina needs to be so OP now (more OP than magicka ever was in comparison to stam)
Balance and fairness is needed and it doesn't exist at the moment. So please, stop defending things that are clearly overperforming.

Actually it does matter cause when magicka builds were the top tier stamina users keep calling for "balancing" and you know what magicka users keep saying ? L2P get gud and so on now that stamina users finally have some stuff going you magicka users are doing the same thing stamina users wanted since day 1.

So answer this why should stamina users get nerfed just cause of some magicka users complaining ?

Also maybe instead of complaining about it with out solution and you "suggest" some solutions to Wrobel sure he'll get right to looking at those and adding them to the game cause there is a saying " Complaining about a problem with out proposing a solution is called whining". That's all you magicka users are doing either adapt to the changes it like stamina users and tanks did for 2 years or make some proper solutions cause how I see it magicka users have a more powerful defense via damage shields and have much superior range attacks than stamina users were the best range skill is snipe and much much more healing options.

You never read, that's your problem. please l2read what people say before commenting.
I said several times, that I don't want stamina to get nerfed, but magicka to be buffed and this is rightful and needed.

And since you like putting all Magicka users in the same bucket. I can as well say " All you stam users can do, is protecting your OPness instead of being honest about it"

Dracane wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

One of the main problems with PvP is resources. I'll quote a comment from a topic of mine:

[Edited quote to fit this topic]

Cronopoly wrote: »

Magicka Classes don't have the Stamina pool to really do well in a core combat PVP requirement (Dodge, CC break, Sprint), and if a Magicka player buffs their Stam resource pool to support these, its at the expense of their Magicka pool and they lose a ton of damage.

Stamina users can rely on simply just 1 main resource pool and not get bogged down micromanaging resources:
Damage
Dodge
CC break
Block
Sprint
Heal

"Most" Magicka users typically spec just in 1 main pool supporting their damage and healing abilities, and this leaves them highly free AP in open world PVP.
Damage
Heal
CCbreak- highly limited
Sprint - highly limited
Dodge - highly limited

And don't forget about the mighty magicka dumps. If a magicka build runs out of magicka, it dies. If it runs out of stam, it dies.

Does a stamina player die when he runs out of magicka ? Not at all. He can freely use his magicka dumps like scales, purge and cloak for example. That's another mighty difference. Magicka can't use stamina dumps, because stamina is way too valueable to be dump. A stamina build can build for full stamina and still do this. If Magicka wants this, they loose power and they are already underpowered.

Exactly Dracane! good point.

Maztiax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

On par ? Is that what you magicka users are saying ? Well in case you were here for the past 2 years stamina users haven't been "on par" with magicka and now that stamina gets a tiny little boost "on par" with magicka all you magicka users scream like the sky is falling and yell for nerfs.

The only thing that needs buffs and i mean real buffs are tanks not that garbage a certain dev is trying to shove down tank throats saying "oh tanks need DPS buffs not tank buffs" and "wanna block invest all your traits ad CP into it" .

"Oh use Malubeth and black rose scrub ha ha ha L2P". This is what tanking is considered to many. A OP monster set and one singular tank set yet DPS players have 100s of sets and combos to choose from to use.

Invalid. It doesn't matter if Ayleids enslaved humans for 1000 years. Humans still have no right to undermine everyone else.

And it doesn't matter if Magicka was stronger for 2 years (even though stamina began to be very viable since 1.6)
This doesn't mean stamina needs to be so OP now (more OP than magicka ever was in comparison to stam)
Balance and fairness is needed and it doesn't exist at the moment. So please, stop defending things that are clearly overperforming.

Actually it does matter cause when magicka builds were the top tier stamina users keep calling for "balancing" and you know what magicka users keep saying ? L2P get gud and so on now that stamina users finally have some stuff going you magicka users are doing the same thing stamina users wanted since day 1.

So answer this why should stamina users get nerfed just cause of some magicka users complaining ?

Also maybe instead of complaining about it with out solution and you "suggest" some solutions to Wrobel sure he'll get right to looking at those and adding them to the game cause there is a saying " Complaining about a problem with out proposing a solution is called whining". That's all you magicka users are doing either adapt to the changes it like stamina users and tanks did for 2 years or make some proper solutions cause how I see it magicka users have a more powerful defense via damage shields and have much superior range attacks than stamina users were the best range skill is snipe and much much more healing options.

You never read, that's your problem. please l2read what people say before commenting.
I said several times, that I don't want stamina to get nerfed, but magicka to be buffed and this is rightful and needed.

And since you like putting all Magicka users in the same bucket. I can as well say " All you stam users can do, is protecting your OPness instead of being honest about it"

[TRIGGERED]

Who got triggered ?

Yep I see this theme many times and I am forced to agree. In PVP, burst damage rules absolutely. Defensive builds, of the type I personally favour, just aren't useful, because the defensive abilities just don't match up to the insane amount of damage dealt by DPS chars. It makes PVP a little dull IMO, because any tactical element that might exist in combat is strangled. ZOS, please please please give some love to defensive builds, and slow down combat a little. The game would benefit so much from it.

Back, I'll explain now why I disagree with you.

Phinix1 wrote: »

I found PVP mildly enjoyable in other games, mainly because they had some semblance of balance. Either that or you could queue for a battleground and do some quick small group skirmishes without having to play Horse Simulator 9000 for 10 minutes or deal with losing all your progress to gankers in IC.

In first, find some skimirsh fights is still possible in pvp (less often than fews month ago), but it's still possible.
You should try to find some fights far away of zergs and try some campaigns with low population, instead of choose popular campaigns. Playing in other time except primetime is also a good way to find some good fights for smallscale pvp.
If your're runing during 10 minutes for fight in cyrodiil, you're really doing something wrong. Choose and think where you can find some fights, try to bait the opponent by taking a ressource or a outpost, or roam between keeps frome differents alliances.

For ganker in imperial city, you have many abilities (magelight, ect..), use them. You even have detects pots

Phinix1 wrote: »

PVP in this game is an unbalanced, tedious joke. Everything is built around burst damage. Stamina users can easily stack burst melee, range, and CC abilities with shuffle/roll spam and poison/CC to drain resources and win 9 times out of 10 even if they totally suck.

Everything is burst damages because a lot of players are playing very similars build with just fews variations. But some others are viable, like tanky build with strong heal debuff and heavy armor with lower damages, ect... Try to be creative, teso game mechanics give us a lot of diversity.

Phinix1 wrote: »

Tanks are worthless. No stamina regen on block and not possible to stack skills to effectively counter melee AND range AND cleanse resource drain poison spam. Just stamina poison/CC them to prevent heals for 3 seconds while you crit rush/execute spam the rest.

Do you want perma block meta again ? With unkillable tanks ? It was awful, a lot of players were with shield and sword at this time. In my opinion remove perma block was necessary for pvp.
And tank are not useless, they're not unkillable anymore like before, and they're working well with the good build and gameplay, just avoid perma blocking, it drain your stamina really fast. (and use your class abilities and heavy attack for get back stamina, many of them are really usefull for play tank in pvp, dont forget powerfull sets for tank like malubeth or bloodspawn).

Phinix1 wrote: »

Solo survival builds are worthless. Poisons have completely destroyed what little remained of build diversity. Now it is no longer possible to even the score through resource management and sustain. Stam spammers can just slot poisons to drain your resources and go to town.

Well, about poisons some of them are really strong and annoying. (deadly venom for example, I got damages tick damages for 6k once). But I disagree again with you, play solo is still possible.
With my own experience, I play often solo for pvp, it's a bit more difficult than before with recent change, but not impossible or *** as you said.
Even with skill cost increased recently. Just adapt, if your're hit by poisons who increase you cost for stamina skill, avoid to spam your abilities during fews seconds, play with terrain, and attack after. Use your skill wisely, think when you will use them. The gameplay is more interesting and strategic in my opinion actually.

Phinix1 wrote: »

Even magicka burst is at a disadvantage. To be effective as magicka you need at least 5 pieces of light armor. So, your defenses will always be low. You need to stack into magicka to have abilities hit hard enough for burst. So not only are you in light armor that is weak against 90% of FoTM stamina (physical) builds but your health is low, and YOUR stamina is low. So, you can't roll dodge, you can't block, and if you get hit with poisons and CC'd you are basically done.

Once more, magicka are still strong and really depend of your build. Magicka sorcers are still dangerous to fight for example, even with shield nerf duration. Magicka nightblade too with their burst and good heals. (others class too)

Stamina build had dodgeroll, and magicka build had purge (and many class abilities). you dont block or roll like a stamina build as magicka. just manage your stamina correctly, and it will be fine, or invest in better stamina recovery if you are magicka build. (the great weakness of many magicka build is a really low stamina recovery).

Phinix1 wrote: »

Stamina has all reward with very little risk.

Every time I try to come back and give this game's PVP a chance I am left with a feeling of disappointment. It is really awful that needed abilities like Warhorn and Vigor force you to endure this mind numbing tedium at all.

These abilities are not really needed for pvp, you can play without. (before alliance war skills nerf and double ap gain, it was needed to get rank 24 at pvp for unlock everything). And now they're really fast to unlock.

For the record, it's not reasonable to make the argument that magicka types are viable because one magicka class is somewhat competitive in PvP. Magicka templars are effective for unintended reasons. Magicka types are not designed to wear heavy armor. It reduces their magicka pool, while medium armor keeps their stamina pool up and their defense sufficient (plus shuffle spam). Next, malabeth is broken and will likely get a much needed nerf. RD is also over performing. In my honest opinion, I think the only reason they haven't removed it is because without it, Templar actually really really really suck. But that's a conversation for another time.

Stamina types overall > magicka types overall in PvP period. That needs to change if the developers want to keep played from leaving the game (the ones who aren't willing to bend and play a FOTM class just to be competitive).

Pandorii wrote: »

For the record, it's not reasonable to make the argument that magicka types are viable because one magicka class is somewhat competitive in PvP. Magicka templars are effective for unintended reasons. Magicka types are not designed to wear heavy armor. It reduces their magicka pool, while medium armor keeps their stamina pool up and their defense sufficient (plus shuffle spam). Next, malabeth is broken and will likely get a much needed nerf. RD is also over performing. In my honest opinion, I think the only reason they haven't removed it is because without it, Tepmlar actually really really really suck. But that's a conversation for another time.

Stamina types overall > magicka types overall in PvP period. That needs to change if the developers want to keep played from leaving the game (the ones who aren't willing to bend and play a FOTM class just to be competitive).

1) I'd love to hear an explanation as to why Magicka types are not designed to wear heavy armor, but Stamina types are. It seems that you don't have a very accurate grasp of what the armor bonuses actually do... Magicka AND Stamina builds make the same sacrifices and gain the same bonuses when they switch to heavy armor.

2) How does wearing heavy armor reduce you resource pool? Which passive did you misread to make you think you have more Magicka wearing light armor?

You're signature reads, "MY TRI-FACTION MAGICKA SQUAD." Perhaps more time invested in learning what the builds you don't play are actually capable of would be beneficial?