Why ESO PVP totally sucks now (it ain't the lag).

Phinix1 · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

I don't care how much you buff tank/sustain builds, you will never bring balance. Poisons totally destroyed any chance of that ever happening, and ZOS is "in too deep" now to flip-flop like Khajiit passives.

People may be too quick to cry "nerf" in general I'll grant you, but some things DO actually need nerfing, and the current stamina burst meta is definitely one of them. Just because people call 911 for stupid reasons like Twitter being down doesn't mean you stop responding to 911 calls.

Until someone can show me how a tank/sustain build or magicka DPS build can hope to do anything more than survive against these stamina burst builds whilst slapping them with wet noodle abilities or just spamming purge to cleanse 60% resource drain poison spam, then the counter argument seems like another oft abused forum phenomenon:

The pointless "git gud," "l2p," constructive post-lacking thread derail spammer.

This being most often abused by the very people exploiting the current OP meta of course.

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

On par ? Is that what you magicka users are saying ? Well in case you were here for the past 2 years stamina users haven't been "on par" with magicka and now that stamina gets a tiny little boost "on par" with magicka all you magicka users scream like the sky is falling and yell for nerfs.

The only thing that needs buffs and i mean real buffs are tanks not that garbage a certain dev is trying to shove down tank throats saying "oh tanks need DPS buffs not tank buffs" and "wanna block invest all your traits ad CP into it" .

"Oh use Malubeth and black rose scrub ha ha ha L2P". This is what tanking is considered to many. A OP monster set and one singular tank set yet DPS players have 100s of sets and combos to choose from to use.

coolermh · July 2016

Magi temp out performs every class 10 fold. If you don't agree you obviously haven't played against a good one. Stamina is descent now but you will never be able to burst down a heavy armor temp in Malabeth. I have all classes at cp 160. I can tell you now magika temps win out in group play, small scale and solo pvp.

WreckfulAbandon · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

On par ? Is that what you magicka users are saying ? Well in case you were here for the past 2 years stamina users haven't been "on par" with magicka and now that stamina gets a tiny little boost "on par" with magicka all you magicka users scream like the sky is falling and yell for nerfs.

The only thing that needs buffs and i mean real buffs are tanks not that garbage a certain dev is trying to shove down tank throats saying "oh tanks need DPS buffs not tank buffs" and "wanna block invest all your traits ad CP into it" .

"Oh use Malubeth and black rose scrub ha ha ha L2P". This is what tanking is considered to many. A OP monster set and one singular tank set yet DPS players have 100s of sets and combos to choose from to use.

You are correct about tanking needing some love, but I'm not sure you know what you are defending with regards to stamina builds in PvP right now.

Dracane · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

On par ? Is that what you magicka users are saying ? Well in case you were here for the past 2 years stamina users haven't been "on par" with magicka and now that stamina gets a tiny little boost "on par" with magicka all you magicka users scream like the sky is falling and yell for nerfs.

The only thing that needs buffs and i mean real buffs are tanks not that garbage a certain dev is trying to shove down tank throats saying "oh tanks need DPS buffs not tank buffs" and "wanna block invest all your traits ad CP into it" .

"Oh use Malubeth and black rose scrub ha ha ha L2P". This is what tanking is considered to many. A OP monster set and one singular tank set yet DPS players have 100s of sets and combos to choose from to use.

Invalid. It doesn't matter if Ayleids enslaved humans for 1000 years. Humans still have no right to undermine everyone else.

And it doesn't matter if Magicka was stronger for 2 years (even though stamina began to be very viable since 1.6)
This doesn't mean stamina needs to be so OP now (more OP than magicka ever was in comparison to stam)
Balance and fairness is needed and it doesn't exist at the moment. So please, stop defending things that are clearly overperforming.

Erock25 · July 2016

So funny reading people saying tanks are bad or tanks can't solo blah blah blah. Tanks in PvP are in the best place they've ever been.

This is just a mediocre player making a stamina versus magicka whine thread.

Brittany_Joy · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

On par ? Is that what you magicka users are saying ? Well in case you were here for the past 2 years stamina users haven't been "on par" with magicka and now that stamina gets a tiny little boost "on par" with magicka all you magicka users scream like the sky is falling and yell for nerfs.

The only thing that needs buffs and i mean real buffs are tanks not that garbage a certain dev is trying to shove down tank throats saying "oh tanks need DPS buffs not tank buffs" and "wanna block invest all your traits ad CP into it" .

"Oh use Malubeth and black rose scrub ha ha ha L2P". This is what tanking is considered to many. A OP monster set and one singular tank set yet DPS players have 100s of sets and combos to choose from to use.

Invalid. It doesn't matter if Ayleids enslaved humans for 1000 years. Humans still have no right to undermine everyone else.

And it doesn't matter if Magicka was stronger for 2 years (even though stamina began to be very viable since 1.6)
This doesn't mean stamina needs to be so OP now (more OP than magicka ever was in comparison to stam)
Balance and fairness is needed and it doesn't exist at the moment. So please, stop defending things that are clearly overperforming.

Stamina is viable but currently OP because stamina abilities have the best damage scaling and damage multipliers. While magicka users were OP because they had sustain and aoe that surpassed any stamina build.

Currently the only unkillable magicka build is a templar because their class skills have the best damage/heal scaling and damage multipliers for magicka. Its not that stamina builds are OP its just the vast majority of magicka skills have poor stat scaling and not enough burst to remain competitive against the stamina builds.

Dracane · July 2016

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

On par ? Is that what you magicka users are saying ? Well in case you were here for the past 2 years stamina users haven't been "on par" with magicka and now that stamina gets a tiny little boost "on par" with magicka all you magicka users scream like the sky is falling and yell for nerfs.

The only thing that needs buffs and i mean real buffs are tanks not that garbage a certain dev is trying to shove down tank throats saying "oh tanks need DPS buffs not tank buffs" and "wanna block invest all your traits ad CP into it" .

"Oh use Malubeth and black rose scrub ha ha ha L2P". This is what tanking is considered to many. A OP monster set and one singular tank set yet DPS players have 100s of sets and combos to choose from to use.

Invalid. It doesn't matter if Ayleids enslaved humans for 1000 years. Humans still have no right to undermine everyone else.

And it doesn't matter if Magicka was stronger for 2 years (even though stamina began to be very viable since 1.6)
This doesn't mean stamina needs to be so OP now (more OP than magicka ever was in comparison to stam)
Balance and fairness is needed and it doesn't exist at the moment. So please, stop defending things that are clearly overperforming.

Stamina is viable but currently OP because stamina abilities have the best damage scaling and damage multipliers. While magicka users were OP because they had sustain and aoe that surpassed any stamina build.

Currently the only unkillable magicka build is a templar because their class skills have the best damage/heal scaling and damage multipliers for magicka. Its not that stamina builds are OP its just the vast majority of magicka skills have poor stat scaling and not enough burst to remain competitive against the stamina builds.

I can agree with that as well.

kadar · July 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

I found PVP mildly enjoyable in other games, mainly because they had some semblance of balance. Either that or you could queue for a battleground and do some quick small group skirmishes without having to play Horse Simulator 9000 for 10 minutes or deal with losing all your progress to gankers in IC.

PVP in this game is an unbalanced, tedious joke. Everything is built around burst damage. Stamina users can easily stack burst melee, range, and CC abilities with shuffle/roll spam and poison/CC to drain resources and win 9 times out of 10 even if they totally suck.

Tanks are worthless. No stamina regen on block and not possible to stack skills to effectively counter melee AND range AND cleanse resource drain poison spam. Just stamina poison/CC them to prevent heals for 3 seconds while you crit rush/execute spam the rest.

Solo survival builds are worthless. Poisons have completely destroyed what little remained of build diversity. Now it is no longer possible to even the score through resource management and sustain. Stam spammers can just slot poisons to drain your resources and go to town.

Even magicka burst is at a disadvantage. To be effective as magicka you need at least 5 pieces of light armor. So, your defenses will always be low. You need to stack into magicka to have abilities hit hard enough for burst. So not only are you in light armor that is weak against 90% of FoTM stamina (physical) builds but your health is low, and YOUR stamina is low. So, you can't roll dodge, you can't block, and if you get hit with poisons and CC'd you are basically done.

Stamina has all reward with very little risk.

Every time I try to come back and give this game's PVP a chance I am left with a feeling of disappointment. It is really awful that needed abilities like Warhorn and Vigor force you to endure this mind numbing tedium at all.

Nope. Your post makes you come off as a PVE-er who is just really salty against Stamina players, even though I doubt that was your intention... If you hoped to spark any sort of meaningful discussion with your discussion post, you're doing it wrong.

Anyone who plays in a group in Cyrodiil knows that a good tank is not worthless.

Solo survival builds are not worthless. You're greatly exaggerating the effect of poisons on sustain.

Magicka builds are certainly not at a disadvantage. Heavy armor is an option for Magicka builds just like it is for Stam. In fact wearing 5 pieces of Heavy armor provides you with ~650 Stamina AND Magicka regen if you're taking damage every 4 seconds. If you do choose to go light armor, low armor rating is irrelevant because your protection is coming from a damage shield.

attackjet · July 2016

Damn yo this is all wrong.

This is just a pve person who dosnt understand PvP.

Its a whole different ball park, I don't go into pve and complain.

I leave my complaining for PvP, and PvP only

RoyalSlyness · July 2016

I've been playing MMO's for like two decades at this point, I'm on year two of ESO. Please tell me which game with PVP doesn't rely on burst damage? That's the most effective way to kill someone, stack and burst damage before your opponent can recover. It's not ESO, it's how to kill people.

Tell me what PVP game tanks are effective at killing? The role/build of a tank is to take and mitigate damage, not dish it out. Wanting tanks to put out more damage is asking everyone to be a tank to be viable.

Cookie cutter builds? Everyone is free to run what they want. In PVP people focus on (as I said earlier) killing opponents effectively as possible. There are only so many combinations and when a very effective one is found, people use it. It's the same in EVERY MMO I've played... dating back to Ultima Online.

Solo Survival? Hate to say it but, get good. The only way you should be able to survive solo is if you're running into only one other player. If you're outnumbered why should you be able to survive except for individual skill/build designed to do so?

I pretty much ONLY pvp in ESO. It's fun nightly, sometimes I'm alone being smart enough not to bite off more than I can chew. Sometimes I'm running with a handful of people defending/poking the enemies. Sometimes I'm with a big group taking keeps.

Sometimes the build/gear/playstyle you want to use is not good for PVP. Sometimes patches happen and it is. Some people adjust their gear/build/playstyle, sometimes people become free AP.

thankyourat · July 2016

Lol when was stamina not viable I'm confused. Stamina has always hit harder for the last year. Stamina has always had better mobility. It's always been easy to stack weapon damage. The only magicka class that has been better than its stam counterpart has been sorcerer. One class being op (magsorc) doesn't mean all magicka was op. I've played magblade and stamblade for the last year, and my magblade had never been better than stamblade. The difference between mag dk and stam dk is so great because of how much better stam has always been than magicka for the last year. The only thing magicka had going for it was your ultimates hit harder and proxy det. That in no way makes up for all the benefits you had over magicka if you played a stamina character. I have two stamina characters and one magicka character and it's laughable how much easier it is to play stamina

DenMoria · July 2016

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Your thread...

Reading it makes me feel like you have never ever step a foot in pvp in this game .

BTW what's this is about?

Lol....

Dude really... all i see is just a bad pvp player complaining about something, everything and nothing at the same time

I'm a REALLY bad PvP player, and even I don't think these are all valid complaints.

That some folks noted that you really do need to have one of the cookie-cutter builds to be viable in PvP is absolutely correct, but that doesn't mean that they're the only way to do things.

a1i3nz · July 2016

Waseem wrote: »

we're playing horse simulator because ZOS decided its nice with the "lightning patch" to decrease number of players in each campaign by 1000%

This is all yes

Cathexis · July 2016

On Solo Survival Builds - I would really like to see heavy armor get additional bonuses for solo/ungrouped pvp. Give pvp tanking builds a unique purpose.

Tonnopesce · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I agree with almost everything. Tanks are the meta as it seems, so I disagree here, Tanks are the top at the moment.
But the supremacy of stamina is getting sickening, it's no longer fun. They have it so easy.

Ahem and this is coming from an UNKILLABLE magika sorcerer... i feel like you are trolling.

Ahahaha I am super squishy. Magicka Sorc is the squishiest class in the game and I am the squishiest of all, because I refuse to shieldstack

Stamina was viable since 1.6 if you're asking me. But it went through the roof with the last few updates. it's overperforming.
Which wouldn't be a problem, if Magicka would finally be brought on par.
Light armor needs buffs, destruction staff as well. These are the things they need to start with and then it's fine.

As you can see, I'm not trolling. maybe you are ?

Lol 2 days ago i logged in right in your face ( i've abandoned my sorc in the sewrers) and I've tried to fight you instead of running away, you have super hig damage and is totally impossible to kill you (i survive 1minute only thanks to a negate) , next time i want to fight you with my stamplar and i'm sure i will lose in any case, the only time that i've almost killed you was with my mag dk.

My point is, against a good player is worthless to use FOTM builds if you know what you are doing any class/race/stam,mag combo is the same.

There is cases where a certain build can carry noobs to the victory but that' all i dont see much of God mode players except for malubeth/reactive/trasmutation templars and since i play with two magika and two stamina i dont see much of a difference and i don't understand the rant from the OP.

Tonnopesce · July 2016

a1i3n0ct0pu5 wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

we're playing horse simulator because ZOS decided its nice with the "lightning patch" to decrease number of players in each campaign by 1000%

This is all yes

You know that the lightning patch was actually an anti cheater/bots patch? I'm happy we dont have gold seller, farm bots no more even if the cost was pvp.

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

You know, it's funny. I kinda made a thread about why PVP is the bane to ESO (of sorts), and this thread pops up. How ironic. Lol.

Anyway, I agree with all the points you mentioned OP. It's why I never set foot in Cyrodiil, unless I'm trying to level up a character's assault to unlock: Caltrops, Vigor, and Magicka Detonation. And that's a damn shame, because I used to thoroughly enjoy PVP in this game. Honestly. I was a hardcore PVP'er up and down. And nowadays, it's like — why bother? Why even waste my time, if I don't have to go in there?

juhasman · July 2016

Sad thread but true... Now magicka users are sad because of all changes so population of magicka users goes down and stamina users goes up. So in the next few months maybe in next year we'll see magicka builds buffs and stamina builds nerfs and then stam builds start to cry. And after next few moths we'll have similar situation and over and over again. #BalanceByZenimax
EDITED: We need HUGE patch rebuilding combat at once and ballancing all types of builds not small patches changing something here and there. But we all know we dont get that patch.

Drakoleon · July 2016

I agree 100%. Zeni could never balance races/skills/classes and apparently never will (after 2.5 years). Stam builds are most fun to play right now while mag builds struggling to sustain.
Zeni will nerf stamina skills(i hope not) instant of buffing mag skills. Unfortunately this is zeni's logic since the begging and thats why this game was never balanced.

Bromburak · July 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

Solo survival builds are worthless. Poisons have completely destroyed what little remained of build diversity. Now it is no longer possible to even the score through resource management and sustain. Stam spammers can just slot poisons to drain your resources and go to town.

Even magicka burst is at a disadvantage. To be effective as magicka you need at least 5 pieces of light armor. So, your defenses will always be low. You need to stack into magicka to have abilities hit hard enough for burst. So not only are you in light armor that is weak against 90% of FoTM stamina (physical) builds but your health is low, and YOUR stamina is low.

There goes your mistake, your survival build is worthless because you are overrating burst and don't even try to play with HA.
The time of superman hybrids without any trade off is over, deal with it.

Poisons only work well because most players are spoiled and stick with their "old builds" without really adapting
changes and then expect everything works as before. If you want proper counter part to Stam and poisons, be flexible, rebuild and adapt changes. Nothing wrong with that.

Sure, to find a good balance between damage and sustain is more challenging and requires experience that most casuals don't have.
But it's part of PvP and the learning curve never ends because such changes make ESO become alive because it would be boring as hell to stick with one build only without adapting any changes and playing smart.

This discussion has many similarities to the dodge and block changes a while ago.
When PvE Tanks complained that they are not able to kill Mantikora with the changes or PvP players complaint that they don't know how to survive without spamming dodge any longer.

Some of them had valid points because a good game should differ between PvP and PvE to avoid any other unexpected side effects but the majority had one thing in common they are totally spoiled and inflexible when it comes to adapt changes.

Dracane · July 2016

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I agree with almost everything. Tanks are the meta as it seems, so I disagree here, Tanks are the top at the moment.
But the supremacy of stamina is getting sickening, it's no longer fun. They have it so easy.

Ahem and this is coming from an UNKILLABLE magika sorcerer... i feel like you are trolling.

Ahahaha I am super squishy. Magicka Sorc is the squishiest class in the game and I am the squishiest of all, because I refuse to shieldstack

Stamina was viable since 1.6 if you're asking me. But it went through the roof with the last few updates. it's overperforming.
Which wouldn't be a problem, if Magicka would finally be brought on par.
Light armor needs buffs, destruction staff as well. These are the things they need to start with and then it's fine.

As you can see, I'm not trolling. maybe you are ?

Lol 2 days ago i logged in right in your face ( i've abandoned my sorc in the sewrers) and I've tried to fight you instead of running away, you have super hig damage and is totally impossible to kill you (i survive 1minute only thanks to a negate) , next time i want to fight you with my stamplar and i'm sure i will lose in any case, the only time that i've almost killed you was with my mag dk.

My point is, against a good player is worthless to use FOTM builds if you know what you are doing any class/race/stam,mag combo is the same.

There is cases where a certain build can carry noobs to the victory but that' all i dont see much of God mode players except for malubeth/reactive/trasmutation templars and since i play with two magika and two stamina i dont see much of a difference and i don't understand the rant from the OP.

But you are not really good, at least not on your Sorc. So you wouldn't beat me on anything I guess. But if you were equal, then you would kill me for sure or at least not get killed.

But you used to be friendlier inside the sewers

why not anymore ?

Draxys · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So.... nerf stamina thread ? Great like the forums needed another one of those threads.

Also it's no secret tanks are bad in PvP it's been fact since 1.6 and real tanks been screaming for buffs it's t hat Wrobel hates tanks.

There is a difference between nerfing stamina, or buffing magicka to bring it on par.
Nobody likes nerfs. But buffing other things is needed.

On par ? Is that what you magicka users are saying ? Well in case you were here for the past 2 years stamina users haven't been "on par" with magicka and now that stamina gets a tiny little boost "on par" with magicka all you magicka users scream like the sky is falling and yell for nerfs.

The only thing that needs buffs and i mean real buffs are tanks not that garbage a certain dev is trying to shove down tank throats saying "oh tanks need DPS buffs not tank buffs" and "wanna block invest all your traits ad CP into it" .

"Oh use Malubeth and black rose scrub ha ha ha L2P". This is what tanking is considered to many. A OP monster set and one singular tank set yet DPS players have 100s of sets and combos to choose from to use.

This argument is first of all just lashing out like an angst driven teenager. Try an intellectual approach instead of an emotional one.

Second of all, arguing from a past situation that no longer applies completely invalidates the whole thing. "Because magicka used to be stronger" is not a reason for stam to be stronger. And it is very much stronger, it is not "on par", for reasons already stated in this thread.

Anti_Virus · July 2016

OP is right, im playing Neverwinter right now and when I get a good PC I'll be playing Gw2. This game has so much potential to be good but the devs overlook it

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

Lol when was stamina not viable I'm confused. Stamina has always hit harder for the last year. Stamina has always had better mobility. It's always been easy to stack weapon damage. The only magicka class that has been better than its stam counterpart has been sorcerer. One class being op (magsorc) doesn't mean all magicka was op. I've played magblade and stamblade for the last year, and my magblade had never been better than stamblade. The difference between mag dk and stam dk is so great because of how much better stam has always been than magicka for the last year. The only thing magicka had going for it was your ultimates hit harder and proxy det. That in no way makes up for all the benefits you had over magicka if you played a stamina character. I have two stamina characters and one magicka character and it's laughable how much easier it is to play stamina

I agree with you 10 fold. It's obnoxiously easy, and simple to have success with a stamina build now. And while sad, this is a perfect example now of magicka to stamina builds: "Stamina builds are like Nightblade builds. Easy and full of success, while being excessive with their pros compared to cons."

Bromburak · July 2016

Anti_Virus wrote: »

OP is right, im playing Neverwinter right now and when I get a good PC I'll be playing Gw2. This game has so much potential to be good but the devs overlook it

And you think that GW2 used all the potential? You funny.

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

Bromburak wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

OP is right, im playing Neverwinter right now and when I get a good PC I'll be playing Gw2. This game has so much potential to be good but the devs overlook it

And you think that GW2 used all the potential? You funny.

GW2 is greatly superior to ESO, and in numerous areas as well. And while true that the devs of GW2 have indeed not taken full advantage of its potential, the game is far more: Balanced, immersive, and polished. It's a highly smooth game. A lot of people said themselves on this very forum that the only reason they touched this game, was due to the Elder Scrolls franchise it was apart of. And how if it wasn't an Elder Scrolls game, it'd get trashed and treated like junk. As well as receive more negativity than it already has. That says a lot.

Bromburak · July 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

OP is right, im playing Neverwinter right now and when I get a good PC I'll be playing Gw2. This game has so much potential to be good but the devs overlook it

And you think that GW2 used all the potential? You funny.

GW2 is greatly superior to ESO, and in numerous areas as well. And while true that the devs of GW2 have indeed not taken full
advantage of its potential, the game is far more: Balanced, immersive, and polished.

PvP Potential is far away from superior in GW 2 and it's everything but not balanced.

The only thing that has been polished was Heart of Thrones and marketing department.

You are talking about immersion now this is really funny because the core issue of GW 2 is that it needs to fake 3 faction PvP with 3 servers and calling it WvWvW. That is the worst concept you can imagine for mass pvp and we better don't talk about the resulting guild hopping and WTJ community.

If you think that Karma Trains are more innovating and provide more fun and objectives than Cyrodiil/IC you must have taken the wrong skooma. I agree that HoT was a smart move to get new players or make it interesting to play for a while but on a long run it was the wrong strategy because it simply didn't follow the mass PvP potential, the big promise of all time ...

The potential of WvW is asleep , a dead cow and imo Clown Wars 2 would be a more suitable name since it would match the current status of the game much better.

Of course we have problems in ESO and balancing and especially the annoying performance is something that is a severe problem and I would say business critical for an MMO but as a gamer I must say that technical issues still have room for improvement as long we keep on track with potential in the big promise of mass PvP couple years ago. Among the technical issues in ESO it feels much more superior than GW 2. And the reason is that ESO delivered with 3 faction PvP while GW 2 only trying hard and that is not enough in this industry.

So please don't tell us GW 2 is greatly superior to ESO because GW 2 is the worst example for not taking advantage of mass PvP potential.

You know, after all these years in MMO gaming I am really sick of empty promises in this industry or fan boy theories.
So would you please enlighten us why a gamer should stick with WvW in GW 2 on a long run and how exactly the Mass PvP potential has been improved over the last years?

kylewwefan · July 2016

I support any thread that supports PvP sucks. Just because.

themdogesbite · July 2016

Can anyone actually give me any reason why i shouldn't play a stamina build if i want to solo pvp?