Minor Force for Magicka Builds anyone ?

Izaki · July 2016

So there are 2 abilities in the game that provide the Minor Force Buff AKA increase your Critical Damage by 12% for X seconds. Both of those abilities cost stamina. One is a toggle, Stalwart Guard from the Alliance War Support Skill Line, this is a fine ability for healers and tanks but it is another toggle, so in the case of a sorcerer most of which already play with Inner Light and Bound Aegis, you would have to add Stalwart Guard for Trials to boost your damage leaving you with only 4 active abilities... Kinda bad right? Now the second source of this buff is Beast Trap from the Fighters' Guild Skill Line. This one is a Stamina high DPS DoT skill. Enough said I guess. Both sources of this huge DPS increase are more beneficial to stamina builds.

My suggestion is to take a look at the Mages' Guild Skill Line which is pretty lackluster in comparison to the Fighters' Guild one. That Fire Rune ability is bad, there's no other words for it. So why the hell not give us this buff along with a serious damage increase for that ability ? Sounds fair to me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Amdar_Godkiller · July 2016

I only play stam builds, and I'd be cool with just allowing each skill line to have one skill that has a stam/magic morph.

There's really only two quality skills in FG too: Trap Beast and Silver Bolts. Expert Hunter is a wasted slot, and the other
skill effects too small of an area. I love Spell Symmetry and Structured Entropy is the ideal follow up to it. Inner Light
is big time DPS boost. Expert Hunter Should have a bonus like that.

Kammakazi · July 2016

It's definitely a must-have if you want to absolutely max out your damage.

Except for Maelstrom where you'll actually need to use your stamina to dodge, block heavy attacks or break free from stuns/fears.

Izaki · July 2016

I play both stam and magicka too, its just kinda absurd that something as core to a trial build as this buff only exists for half the DPS players out there. I really don't think spell symmetry is a viable skill especially with entropy as a follow up as entropy is already basicly free (like 700 cost or something). So yeah the ultimates in both skill lines are great but only 2 abilities from each skill line are actually usable... Expert hunter should really give something useful, to at least have a reason to slot it. Circle of protection has some potential but both morphs are pretty lackluster...

Dracane · July 2016

Adding minor force to fire rune is an excellent and genius idea if I may say that OP

Now imagine, if fire rune would finally become a reasonable dot on top

I wouldn't use it either way. But I think, others would be happy.

Izaki · July 2016

@Dracane glad to see someone agrees with me !

Thank you !

If fire rune gave you minor force and had a reasonable DoT you still wouldn't use it? What does it take to satisfy you ?

Oakmontowls_ESO · July 2016

Really there is no reason you can't run trap beast as a magika dps. Only in content that requires heavy use of stamina would it be an issue.

Izaki · July 2016

I use trap beast on my magicka sorc and templar DPS. but unlike a stamina build it is not contributing to my actual damage as in it is not a skill that actually does damage, it is simply a buff. On my stam sorc and my stamblade though, this is one of my primary DPS abilities because of the insane damage it does.

Dracane · July 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

@Dracane glad to see someone agrees with me ! Thank you !

If fire rune gave you minor force and had a reasonable DoT you still wouldn't use it? What does it take to satisfy you ?

I am a pet Sorcerer

I have no space for it.
I play pet Sorc in pvp, as a tank, healer and as a DD. So my situation is always very limited.

GilGalad · July 2016

It could also be added to one of the equilibrium morphs to make them somehow useful again...

Dracane · July 2016

Gil.Galad wrote: »

It could also be added to one of the equilibrium morphs to make them somehow useful again...

I hope, that the next update is going to be as drastical for magicka as it was for stam last time and that they overhaul mages guild like they did with fighters guild.

Waffennacht · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Gil.Galad wrote: »

It could also be added to one of the equilibrium morphs to make them somehow useful again...

I hope, that the next update is going to be as drastical for magicka as it was for stam last time and that they overhaul mages guild like they did with fighters guild.

Have you not looked at potes about the up coming hist dlc?

Pets will stand to your left now!

psychotic13 · July 2016

Mages guild needs a slight buff though, spell symmetry and fire rune are garbage and probably the most unused abilites in game,

Dracane · July 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Gil.Galad wrote: »

It could also be added to one of the equilibrium morphs to make them somehow useful again...

I hope, that the next update is going to be as drastical for magicka as it was for stam last time and that they overhaul mages guild like they did with fighters guild.

Have you not looked at potes about the up coming hist dlc?

Pets will stand to your left now!

I can already feel the incoming OPness.....

Jsmalls · July 2016

This should be a no brainer for ZOS. Fire rune is a great candidate for this to be placed on.

Anyone else notice that the mages guild skill line is painfully similar to Sorc's abilities?

Inner light - Bound Aegis
Entropy - Power Surge
Fire rune - Daedric mines
Spell symmetry - Dark conversion

Short of inner light I have no reason to run any of those "cheap knockoffs"

Mages guild skill line needs to be reworked Q4 please.

JinMori · July 2016

i am running a magicka templar right now with minor force buff, and let's me say that the dps is incredible, more than 30 k, fully buffed i get 10 k puncturing with julianos set.

Qbiken · July 2016

Rearming trap works amazing on magicka builds aswell, no need for a pure magicka skill that provides this buff imo

Autolycus · July 2016

The cost of Trap (particularly Rearming Trap) is rather trivial for almost any encounter in a trials scenario. The benefit of maintaining it is vastly greater than the cost of doing so. Only in very rare occurrences will a caster need that stamina for something else, i.e. dodge or block.

However, as there are occasional valid reasons for spending that stamina elsewhere, such as blocking a poison spear from Mantikora, or the AoE Smash from Stonebreaker, I feel it's almost important to note the value of tanks providing Stalwart Guard to magicka dps. The two magicka classes that should be prioritized for Guard by tanks are DKs and Sorcs. As a main trials tank, I feel it is very important to note this: It is not the tank's job to follow you around. It is your job as a magicka dps to stay close enough to keep your tether. A tank walking around trying to refresh guard on someone who moved too far away is, on most vet bosses, grounds for a wipe. That being said, stam dps shouldn't be priority here; they have trap and can very easily sustain it.

On a final note, while I don't much care if Rune gets Minor Force or not, I do agree wholeheartedly with this:

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Mages guild skill line needs to be reworked Q4 please.

Waffennacht · July 2016

How viable are guard and or trap in PvP? Does trap have to be triggered to gain the buff?

Izaki · July 2016

Qbiken wrote: »

Rearming trap works amazing on magicka builds aswell, no need for a pure magicka skill that provides this buff imo

Dude never said that Rearming Trao wasn't amazing I'm running it myself. If we could have an ability made for magicka builds to DPS and provide this buff at the same time it would be only fair and not OP or anything. Stam builds get rearming Trap magicka get fire rune... Like why not make fire rune a little bit useful.

Izaki · July 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

The cost of Trap (particularly Rearming Trap) is rather trivial for almost any encounter in a trials scenario. The benefit of maintaining it is vastly greater than the cost of doing so. Only in very rare occurrences will a caster need that stamina for something else, i.e. dodge or block.

However, as there are occasional valid reasons for spending that stamina elsewhere, such as blocking a poison spear from Mantikora, or the AoE Smash from Stonebreaker, I feel it's almost important to note the value of tanks providing Stalwart Guard to magicka dps. The two magicka classes that should be prioritized for Guard by tanks are DKs and Sorcs. As a main trials tank, I feel it is very important to note this: It is not the tank's job to follow you around. It is your job as a magicka dps to stay close enough to keep your tether. A tank walking around trying to refresh guard on someone who moved too far away is, on most vet bosses, grounds for a wipe. That being said, stam dps shouldn't be priority here; they have trap and can very easily sustain it.

On a final note, while I don't much care if Rune gets Minor Force or not, I do agree wholeheartedly with this:

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Mages guild skill line needs to be reworked Q4 please.

I am not talking about its cost or its incovinience. Why can't people understand I'm asking for opinions if magicka should have access to an actual legit DPS + Minor Force ability somewhat reminiscent of Beast Trap OR if we should keep using Beast Trap as magicka builds. I use Trap, I like it, there are no inconvinients but the lack of damage on a magicka build.

Autolycus · July 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

The cost of Trap (particularly Rearming Trap) is rather trivial for almost any encounter in a trials scenario. The benefit of maintaining it is vastly greater than the cost of doing so. Only in very rare occurrences will a caster need that stamina for something else, i.e. dodge or block.

However, as there are occasional valid reasons for spending that stamina elsewhere, such as blocking a poison spear from Mantikora, or the AoE Smash from Stonebreaker, I feel it's almost important to note the value of tanks providing Stalwart Guard to magicka dps. The two magicka classes that should be prioritized for Guard by tanks are DKs and Sorcs. As a main trials tank, I feel it is very important to note this: It is not the tank's job to follow you around. It is your job as a magicka dps to stay close enough to keep your tether. A tank walking around trying to refresh guard on someone who moved too far away is, on most vet bosses, grounds for a wipe. That being said, stam dps shouldn't be priority here; they have trap and can very easily sustain it.

On a final note, while I don't much care if Rune gets Minor Force or not, I do agree wholeheartedly with this:

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Mages guild skill line needs to be reworked Q4 please.

I am not talking about its cost or its incovinience. Why can't people understand I'm asking for opinions if magicka should have access to an actual legit DPS + Minor Force ability somewhat reminiscent of Beast Trap OR if we should keep using Beast Trap as magicka builds. I use Trap, I like it, there are no inconvinients but the lack of damage on a magicka build.

No offense intended there. I was simply speaking my thoughts on the matter.

I think I would like having an actual magicka skill, one that scales from max magicka and SD, that provides Minor Force. For a stamina build, Trap Beast is the strongest single-target DoT in the game right now (at least last I checked), and that's certainly not the case for us in magicka builds.

Tacking it on to Rune is as swell an idea as any I could come up with myself. I truly wish Rune was useful again.... but on the whole I would like the see Mages Guild reworked. If Minor Force comes with - all the better.

Izaki · July 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

The cost of Trap (particularly Rearming Trap) is rather trivial for almost any encounter in a trials scenario. The benefit of maintaining it is vastly greater than the cost of doing so. Only in very rare occurrences will a caster need that stamina for something else, i.e. dodge or block.

However, as there are occasional valid reasons for spending that stamina elsewhere, such as blocking a poison spear from Mantikora, or the AoE Smash from Stonebreaker, I feel it's almost important to note the value of tanks providing Stalwart Guard to magicka dps. The two magicka classes that should be prioritized for Guard by tanks are DKs and Sorcs. As a main trials tank, I feel it is very important to note this: It is not the tank's job to follow you around. It is your job as a magicka dps to stay close enough to keep your tether. A tank walking around trying to refresh guard on someone who moved too far away is, on most vet bosses, grounds for a wipe. That being said, stam dps shouldn't be priority here; they have trap and can very easily sustain it.

On a final note, while I don't much care if Rune gets Minor Force or not, I do agree wholeheartedly with this:

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Mages guild skill line needs to be reworked Q4 please.

I am not talking about its cost or its incovinience. Why can't people understand I'm asking for opinions if magicka should have access to an actual legit DPS + Minor Force ability somewhat reminiscent of Beast Trap OR if we should keep using Beast Trap as magicka builds. I use Trap, I like it, there are no inconvinients but the lack of damage on a magicka build.

No offense intended there. I was simply speaking my thoughts on the matter.

I think I would like having an actual magicka skill, one that scales from max magicka and SD, that provides Minor Force. For a stamina build, Trap Beast is the strongest single-target DoT in the game right now (at least last I checked), and that's certainly not the case for us in magicka builds.

Tacking it on to Rune is as swell an idea as any I could come up with myself. I truly wish Rune was useful again.... but on the whole I would like the see Mages Guild reworked. If Minor Force comes with - all the better.

You said it all there ! I agree with you entirely.

Malthorne · July 2016

minor force on fire rune would be a fantastic change

Izaki · July 2016

@Malthorne glad that you agree ! Now just gotta get this idea to ZOS....

Waffennacht · July 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

@Malthorne glad that you agree ! Now just gotta get this idea to ZOS....

Of course it's a good idea, however it flies completely in the face of the current game progression.

It May happen in a dlc after hist. But there is a reason they decided to cut Back on viable dps magicka moves, especially on non-class abilities (I cannot fathom their reason myself, but there is one)

It's not about making moves better, it's about trying to control the meta by limiting choice.

Edit: So... um... how good is it in PvP (trap especially) ?

Izaki · July 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

@Malthorne glad that you agree ! Now just gotta get this idea to ZOS....

Of course it's a good idea, however it flies completely in the face of the current game progression.

It May happen in a dlc after hist. But there is a reason they decided to cut Back on viable dps magicka moves, especially on non-class abilities (I cannot fathom their reason myself, but there is one)

It's not about making moves better, it's about trying to control the meta by limiting choice.

Edit: So... um... how good is it in PvP (trap especially) ?

Trap in PvP on a magicka build is kinda suicide..! On a stam build, particulary stam sorc, this thing works great when paired with Eternal Hunt and Skirmisher's Bite.

Izaki · July 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

How viable are guard and or trap in PvP? Does trap have to be triggered to gain the buff?

So yeah guard in PvP is pretty limited as taking 30% of a NBs burst + the damage that a DK does to your face, is really too much to take at once. So yeah the trap has to be triggered for it to provide the buff, but using your stamina just for that one minor force buff in PvP is really really bad. I don't recommend it at all, because people run Impenetrable on their gear etc.

Waffennacht · July 2016

Thanks guys! Appreciate the feedback, I'm really new to stam