DenMoria wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

Alright dude...w/e you say...no one was running my rotation and my set combination till I posted it...as a matter of fact after I posted it people said it wouldn't work. There was zero of a spike in popularity of lightning staff till this build. Since you can't medium weave a lightning staff. Everyone was using a fire destro. I'm ok with you disagreeing with whether the build is viable or not...but to call it unoriginal is insulting since I came up with it, the skill set that I use and the rotation that I adopted. Also rotation is everything. On my Stam DK using 2 different rotation can result in a 5k dps loss. So optimization of rotation matters.

We haven't been medium weaving since the heavy attack nerf to destro staff. Using lightning was popular before DB. Liquid lightning, Elemental blockade, and Boundless storm has been the the meta for sorcs in trials since..... forever? You may have used different sets than what was considered meta, but your skills haven't changed... that doesn't make an entirely new and unique build.

Aww honey, clearly you don't do any endgame PvE...I've never seen anyone in any endgame PvE do what my build calls for until DB and it is because it wasn't viable, as in your damage was utter crap. You specifically need infal to make it work. So you're straight up lying, which is fine darling As for using the same skills, a sorc has 15 skills total outside of ultis, all builds use a combination of some of those skills. No one was doing the combination of skills/rotation/gear that is in my build...nothing even remotely aimilar baby....you can continue to make false statements regarding this, but that doesn't change the facts...try again cutie:)

You're either being incredibly condescending or you're Tallulah Bankhead. "Darling"? Try "Dahling".

Xeven wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Pre-patch, a good sorc was only shield stacking pre-fight. Mid-fight, he knew it was useless to put Hardened Ward on when fighting a magicka build, just like it was useless to put Harness Magicka on when fighting Stamina build, etc.

wut

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

Alright dude...w/e you say...no one was running my rotation and my set combination till I posted it...as a matter of fact after I posted it people said it wouldn't work. There was zero of a spike in popularity of lightning staff till this build. Since you can't medium weave a lightning staff. Everyone was using a fire destro. I'm ok with you disagreeing with whether the build is viable or not...but to call it unoriginal is insulting since I came up with it, the skill set that I use and the rotation that I adopted. Also rotation is everything. On my Stam DK using 2 different rotation can result in a 5k dps loss. So optimization of rotation matters.

We haven't been medium weaving since the heavy attack nerf to destro staff. Using lightning was popular before DB. Liquid lightning, Elemental blockade, and Boundless storm has been the the meta for sorcs in trials since..... forever? You may have used different sets than what was considered meta, but your skills haven't changed... that doesn't make an entirely new and unique build.

Aww honey, clearly you don't do any endgame PvE...I've never seen anyone in any endgame PvE do what my build calls for until DB and it is because it wasn't viable, as in your damage was utter crap. You specifically need infal to make it work. So you're straight up lying, which is fine darling As for using the same skills, a sorc has 15 skills total outside of ultis, all builds use a combination of some of those skills. No one was doing the combination of skills/rotation/gear that is in my build...nothing even remotely aimilar baby....you can continue to make false statements regarding this, but that doesn't change the facts...try again cutie:)

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

Alright dude...w/e you say...no one was running my rotation and my set combination till I posted it...as a matter of fact after I posted it people said it wouldn't work. There was zero of a spike in popularity of lightning staff till this build. Since you can't medium weave a lightning staff. Everyone was using a fire destro. I'm ok with you disagreeing with whether the build is viable or not...but to call it unoriginal is insulting since I came up with it, the skill set that I use and the rotation that I adopted. Also rotation is everything. On my Stam DK using 2 different rotation can result in a 5k dps loss. So optimization of rotation matters.

We haven't been medium weaving since the heavy attack nerf to destro staff. Using lightning was popular before DB. Liquid lightning, Elemental blockade, and Boundless storm has been the the meta for sorcs in trials since..... forever? You may have used different sets than what was considered meta, but your skills haven't changed... that doesn't make an entirely new and unique build.

Aww honey, clearly you don't do any endgame PvE...I've never seen anyone in any endgame PvE do what my build calls for until DB and it is because it wasn't viable, as in your damage was utter crap. You specifically need infal to make it work. So you're straight up lying, which is fine darling As for using the same skills, a sorc has 15 skills total outside of ultis, all builds use a combination of some of those skills. No one was doing the combination of skills/rotation/gear that is in my build...nothing even remotely aimilar baby....you can continue to make false statements regarding this, but that doesn't change the facts...try again cutie:)

Listen sweet cheeks, I know you want to pretend you are a special snowflake and all, but the truth is... it was being done long before you posted your build. The fact that I was doing it before TG.... But yeah lets just pretend that you magically pulled those sets of skills and used them where other sorcs didn't even have a clue that they existed and pretend you are the king of all sorc builds and because you posted it first that means no one else.... ever was doing it long before you.

I want your drugs, or to be transferred into your special realm of delusion.

Honey buns if you used this build prior to DB then you're a baddie that couldnt pull 25k on bloodspawn...this build wasnt viable before DB. Also since you say you use it before DB, do you have any videos dated from before DB that prove that? Dearest cutie pie do be a doll and stop spouting nonsense, all sorcs utilize the same skill set, to say that for a build to be original you have to not use sorcs skills would mean that there are no original sorc builds in existence. Also baby I never claimed to be the best sorc out there. The only thing I claim is that I came up with it first and that it does amazing damage.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

No one was using Lightning Staff as a main spammable honey boo boo...

Xundiin wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

Alright dude...w/e you say...no one was running my rotation and my set combination till I posted it...as a matter of fact after I posted it people said it wouldn't work. There was zero of a spike in popularity of lightning staff till this build. Since you can't medium weave a lightning staff. Everyone was using a fire destro. I'm ok with you disagreeing with whether the build is viable or not...but to call it unoriginal is insulting since I came up with it, the skill set that I use and the rotation that I adopted. Also rotation is everything. On my Stam DK using 2 different rotation can result in a 5k dps loss. So optimization of rotation matters.

We haven't been medium weaving since the heavy attack nerf to destro staff. Using lightning was popular before DB. Liquid lightning, Elemental blockade, and Boundless storm has been the the meta for sorcs in trials since..... forever? You may have used different sets than what was considered meta, but your skills haven't changed... that doesn't make an entirely new and unique build.

Aww honey, clearly you don't do any endgame PvE...I've never seen anyone in any endgame PvE do what my build calls for until DB and it is because it wasn't viable, as in your damage was utter crap. You specifically need infal to make it work. So you're straight up lying, which is fine darling As for using the same skills, a sorc has 15 skills total outside of ultis, all builds use a combination of some of those skills. No one was doing the combination of skills/rotation/gear that is in my build...nothing even remotely aimilar baby....you can continue to make false statements regarding this, but that doesn't change the facts...try again cutie:)

Listen sweet cheeks, I know you want to pretend you are a special snowflake and all, but the truth is... it was being done long before you posted your build. The fact that I was doing it before TG.... But yeah lets just pretend that you magically pulled those sets of skills and used them where other sorcs didn't even have a clue that they existed and pretend you are the king of all sorc builds and because you posted it first that means no one else.... ever was doing it long before you.

I want your drugs, or to be transferred into your special realm of delusion.

Honey buns if you used this build prior to DB then you're a baddie that couldnt pull 25k on bloodspawn...this build wasnt viable before DB. Also since you say you use it before DB, do you have any videos dated from before DB that prove that? Dearest cutie pie do be a doll and stop spouting nonsense, all sorcs utilize the same skill set, to say that for a build to be original you have to not use sorcs skills would mean that there are no original sorc builds in existence. Also baby I never claimed to be the best sorc out there. The only thing I claim is that I came up with it first and that it does amazing damage.

if you say so cupcake. Apparently because you think you did it first means everyone else is wrong. You and Deltia have the same mindset it would seem since he takes other peoples ideas than claims them his.

All sorcs where using LL, EB, and BS. A lot of sorcs where also using lightning staves after the heavy attack nerf since partial heavies no longer got the bonus. So no you where not the first to come up with this play style.

No one was using Lightning Staff as a main spammable honey boo boo....again you have any videos that prove that Im lying? Also I have no idea what you're talking about with partial heavies and all that. All end game meta sorcs used force pulse/frags last patch with either Kena or Nerieneth...if you did something different then your dps was bad...that was the only way to sorc well in PvE....alright sweat pea?

Way to show you know nothing sugar ***. One the most used meta top DPS builds put written up by a Hodor sorc Yolo, weaved light/medium attacks into their rotation.... good job. Guess they are bad because they weaved. /facepalm.

I used lightning staff after the heavy attack nerf, the nerf that made it so partial heavy attack channels no longer benefit from the heavy attack bonus damage.... again way to show you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Why should I show you a video of me using a lightning stafff? Why? Is it to hard for your small brain to consider the fact that people might have had the same idea you did before you? Or are you so conceded and arrogant that no one does any thing until you post it?

Also... Place LL, BE, and BS. Stand next to boss so BS hits it, spam force pulse, light attack,force pulse unless you get a Crystal frags proc.... yes I know the rotation. The fact that you think LL, BE, and BS weren't used before your build is laughable on top of the fact that lightning staff wasn't used.

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

Alright dude...w/e you say...no one was running my rotation and my set combination till I posted it...as a matter of fact after I posted it people said it wouldn't work. There was zero of a spike in popularity of lightning staff till this build. Since you can't medium weave a lightning staff. Everyone was using a fire destro. I'm ok with you disagreeing with whether the build is viable or not...but to call it unoriginal is insulting since I came up with it, the skill set that I use and the rotation that I adopted. Also rotation is everything. On my Stam DK using 2 different rotation can result in a 5k dps loss. So optimization of rotation matters.

Optimization of rotation matters, of course, I never claimed otherwise. But on your other post I replied to, you claimed you were not using the same skills and same role on your sorcerer and the problem was lack of creativity of the players, not the lack of variety of the sorcerers. But the skills you are using on that build and the role it was made for are precisely what the sorcerers have been pigeonholed into doing. But as I said before, your own spin you added to it was nice, like no weaving and no overload. I didn't mean to offend you.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

I'm not sure you know the facts. Fact is no one was using (or very very few people) were using a Lightning staff until he published this build for his sorc and his DK. You can also easily see post dates.

The fact the build utilizes sets and a certain rotation is what makes it unique. All NB's use the same abilities, but the way they use (rotation) is what can make it unique. Check your facts before you start spouting non sense.

The person I replied to claimed he wasn't using the same skills, which wasn't the case in the end. That is pretty straightforward, I don't see how that can be considered "nonsense". NBs have a little more freedom regarding their skill bars depending of what you want to do with them, and are a more forgiving class altogether.

Regarding the use of Lightning Staves, that wasn't what I observed in game, but whatever. We have different sample groups I assume.

My complaint regarding sorcerers is precisely how only a handful of class skills are used. I believe there is a recent thread speaking of the Pets problem that addresses that issue too.

I mean if we use your logic then all builds are the same by definition since there are so few skills you can actually use. If you want to use semantics then there are no original builds at all. But that's nothe how it works. My build has no spammable and uses heavy attacks...that is something no one was doing before it was posted.

Not exactly what I was saying. Like, with Magicka Sorcerer, there are a few skills that every Magicka Sorcerer that I bump into will have on their bar (by that I mean that it will be hard to find Sorcerers who do not use those same skills, not that there is little overlapping, that's the complete opposite. I don't know if my phrasing is clear, sorry). There is little variation without sacrificing performance, because of the way the class is built. With Magicka NB or Magicka Templar, I can have remarkably different flavours to the class, including playing them on different roles (in my experience, Magicka DK's situation is similar to Magicka Sorcerer where skill diversity is regarded and it has a worse performance on the same role, but this discussion isn't about them). I am not discussing semantics, it was pretty straightforward: You said you were using different skills, I said the skills you are using are going to be found on the bar of any and every Magicka Sorcerer. You use them differently because you do not use a spammable? That's great too, but it still isn't the issue. I don't want to use the same four~five skills and play the same role on both of my Magicka Sorcerers or to suck otherwise, that's the point I am discussing, you see. I understand the differences between your build and what is commonly done and I recognized them, that's great, I love that it doesn't use overload, but it doesn't address the issue I am observing.

Edit: I noticed you got into an argument with someone else, so I will just drop it here before I get dragged into it too.

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

Alright dude...w/e you say...no one was running my rotation and my set combination till I posted it...as a matter of fact after I posted it people said it wouldn't work. There was zero of a spike in popularity of lightning staff till this build. Since you can't medium weave a lightning staff. Everyone was using a fire destro. I'm ok with you disagreeing with whether the build is viable or not...but to call it unoriginal is insulting since I came up with it, the skill set that I use and the rotation that I adopted. Also rotation is everything. On my Stam DK using 2 different rotation can result in a 5k dps loss. So optimization of rotation matters.

Optimization of rotation matters, of course, I never claimed otherwise. But on your other post I replied to, you claimed you were not using the same skills and same role on your sorcerer and the problem was lack of creativity of the players, not the lack of variety of the sorcerers. But the skills you are using on that build and the role it was made for are precisely what the sorcerers have been pigeonholed into doing. But as I said before, your own spin you added to it was nice, like no weaving and no overload. I didn't mean to offend you.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

I'm not sure you know the facts. Fact is no one was using (or very very few people) were using a Lightning staff until he published this build for his sorc and his DK. You can also easily see post dates.

The fact the build utilizes sets and a certain rotation is what makes it unique. All NB's use the same abilities, but the way they use (rotation) is what can make it unique. Check your facts before you start spouting non sense.

The person I replied to claimed he wasn't using the same skills, which wasn't the case in the end. That is pretty straightforward, I don't see how that can be considered "nonsense". NBs have a little more freedom regarding their skill bars depending of what you want to do with them, and are a more forgiving class altogether.

Regarding the use of Lightning Staves, that wasn't what I observed in game, but whatever. We have different sample groups I assume.

My complaint regarding sorcerers is precisely how only a handful of class skills are used. I believe there is a recent thread speaking of the Pets problem that addresses that issue too.

I mean if we use your logic then all builds are the same by definition since there are so few skills you can actually use. If you want to use semantics then there are no original builds at all. But that's nothe how it works. My build has no spammable and uses heavy attacks...that is something no one was doing before it was posted.

Not exactly what I was saying. Like, with Magicka Sorcerer, there are a few skills that every Magicka Sorcerer that I bump into will have on their bar (by that I mean that it will be hard to find Sorcerers who do not use those same skills, not that there is little overlapping, that's the complete opposite. I don't know if my phrasing is clear, sorry). There is little variation without sacrificing performance, because of the way the class is built. With Magicka NB or Magicka Templar, I can have remarkably different flavours to the class, including playing them on different roles (in my experience, Magicka DK's situation is similar to Magicka Sorcerer where skill diversity is regarded and it has a worse performance on the same role, but this discussion isn't about them). I am not discussing semantics, it was pretty straightforward: You said you were using different skills, I said the skills you are using are going to be found on the bar of any and every Magicka Sorcerer. You use them differently because you do not use a spammable? That's great too, but it still isn't the issue. I don't want to use the same four~five skills and play the same role on both of my Magicka Sorcerers or to suck otherwise, that's the point I am discussing, you see. I understand the differences between your build and what is commonly done and I recognized them, that's great, I love that it doesn't use overload, but it doesn't address the issue I am observing.

Edit: I noticed you got into an argument with someone else, so I will just drop it here before I get dragged into it too.

Ok I get what you're saying, but I guess I could say that between guard soul assault and Elemental Blockade I am only using 4 sorc skills on both bars. A templar typically uses more class skills than that so does a NB and as you said DK'S are also limited. So if anything there is less class skills in this build then most other classes use. I see what you mean in regards inflexibility but it's not a whole lot different for other classes. Also didn't mean to come off attacking you. I apologize if that's how I made you feel. I spend a very long time perfecting builds and rotations, it's a passion of mine. I make a huge effort to make them be as far away from the meta as is possible.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

Alright dude...w/e you say...no one was running my rotation and my set combination till I posted it...as a matter of fact after I posted it people said it wouldn't work. There was zero of a spike in popularity of lightning staff till this build. Since you can't medium weave a lightning staff. Everyone was using a fire destro. I'm ok with you disagreeing with whether the build is viable or not...but to call it unoriginal is insulting since I came up with it, the skill set that I use and the rotation that I adopted. Also rotation is everything. On my Stam DK using 2 different rotation can result in a 5k dps loss. So optimization of rotation matters.

Optimization of rotation matters, of course, I never claimed otherwise. But on your other post I replied to, you claimed you were not using the same skills and same role on your sorcerer and the problem was lack of creativity of the players, not the lack of variety of the sorcerers. But the skills you are using on that build and the role it was made for are precisely what the sorcerers have been pigeonholed into doing. But as I said before, your own spin you added to it was nice, like no weaving and no overload. I didn't mean to offend you.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Despite this topic, I've recently went against some good Sorcs in Cyrodiil and I have to say, they didn't get hit "too hard" at all come to think of it... they can still hold their weight, even though they run outta magicka quicker (i think) they're strong with the right set up!

This kind of thinking is really what damages the magicka sorcerer.

Yes, it is possible to play a magicka sorcerer well. With one build. One role. The same skills. The same sets. No variation.
And yet there are people who say there isn't a problem. Because oh they can do that one thing on that one way in an acceptable manner.

But this isn't a new issue, unfortunately. And I am not sure if @Wrobel is aware that the pigeonholing is the issue.

I don't play the sorcerer with the same build, same skills and same role. The issue is lack of creativity from the player base, not a lack of possible builds...

Would you mind posting your magicka sorcerer builds, then? Because that one on your signature is not very different from the "mainstream" magicka sorcerer build (just to clarify, I am not criticizing your build, challenging you or being condescending. I just genuinely wish I didn't have to always go back to those same skills, same lightning staves, same TBS... Although I appreciate your build being "free from Overload". Yikes).

Magicka sorcerer had been my main since beta, but I made another magicka sorcerer this year and I am having trouble making her really different from my main without making her worse than my other 9 characters. There is no reason to play as her other than RP reasons, because anything that she can do differently than my main magicka sorcerer my characters of other classes do better.

What do you mean? The meta is a fire vMA staff 2 Kena or Nerieneth 5 TBS or Julianos 3 willpower/infal/Moondancer. You use frags and force pulse.

My build is completely different and uses lightning staff heavy attack while maintaining Boundless, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade...how is that not completely different? The sets I run are also 5 infallible 5 TBS and my use of Soul Assault is something no one is doing as far as I'm aware. The concept is completely different since you are not weaving at all. I dont think you actually read through the build. This is the new meta for vMoL.

I did read through the build, actually.

Your build is an amplified version of what is commonly used on the second bar for AoE for solo PvE playing, which is why I said it is not very different from the mainstream magicka sorcerer build. What you described as meta (spamming force pulse and frags) is for single target DPS. Anyways, your build uses overused skills like Lightning Splash, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis and Mages Wrath. These are skills that every magicka sorcerer have been running since the beginning, and the reason why I don't find your build to be "completely different". Lightning Staff benefits from the Sorcerers passives and is especially annoying on PvP. Because of that, it had a spike on popularity lately. My main Magicka Sorcerer has a pretty similar setup to what you proposed on her second bar.

Another thing that does not make your build "completely different" is that it is a DPS build, like pretty much every other Magicka Sorcerer build. As I said before, same old skills, same old sets (on this case, you used two very popular sets, Torug's Pact and TBS), same old role.

But I am not criticizing your build by any means. It is a pretty good build after all, and not hard to achieve, so kudos to you. And again, I'm glad it doesn't use Overload because honestly I hate that ultimate after using it for so long. I am just saying that it is not as different from what is commonly used as I would like, having two Magicka Sorcerers, especially after DB (a lot of people gave up on the Kena/Julianos/Willpower setup because they can't deal with the nerf on shield duration and needed to be less squishy). And again, the skills used are the main similarity to what is mainstream, but that is the problem that I wish ZOS would address anyway - the skill variety.

I do like that your build does not use weaving. But it still uses the same overused skills that we have been using since forever. Which is fine, it works, again I'm not by any means saying your build is bad, your build is great. But I want to use different skills on my sorcerers too

I'm not sure you know the facts. Fact is no one was using (or very very few people) were using a Lightning staff until he published this build for his sorc and his DK. You can also easily see post dates.

The fact the build utilizes sets and a certain rotation is what makes it unique. All NB's use the same abilities, but the way they use (rotation) is what can make it unique. Check your facts before you start spouting non sense.

The person I replied to claimed he wasn't using the same skills, which wasn't the case in the end. That is pretty straightforward, I don't see how that can be considered "nonsense". NBs have a little more freedom regarding their skill bars depending of what you want to do with them, and are a more forgiving class altogether.

Regarding the use of Lightning Staves, that wasn't what I observed in game, but whatever. We have different sample groups I assume.

My complaint regarding sorcerers is precisely how only a handful of class skills are used. I believe there is a recent thread speaking of the Pets problem that addresses that issue too.

I mean if we use your logic then all builds are the same by definition since there are so few skills you can actually use. If you want to use semantics then there are no original builds at all. But that's nothe how it works. My build has no spammable and uses heavy attacks...that is something no one was doing before it was posted.

Not exactly what I was saying. Like, with Magicka Sorcerer, there are a few skills that every Magicka Sorcerer that I bump into will have on their bar (by that I mean that it will be hard to find Sorcerers who do not use those same skills, not that there is little overlapping, that's the complete opposite. I don't know if my phrasing is clear, sorry). There is little variation without sacrificing performance, because of the way the class is built. With Magicka NB or Magicka Templar, I can have remarkably different flavours to the class, including playing them on different roles (in my experience, Magicka DK's situation is similar to Magicka Sorcerer where skill diversity is regarded and it has a worse performance on the same role, but this discussion isn't about them). I am not discussing semantics, it was pretty straightforward: You said you were using different skills, I said the skills you are using are going to be found on the bar of any and every Magicka Sorcerer. You use them differently because you do not use a spammable? That's great too, but it still isn't the issue. I don't want to use the same four~five skills and play the same role on both of my Magicka Sorcerers or to suck otherwise, that's the point I am discussing, you see. I understand the differences between your build and what is commonly done and I recognized them, that's great, I love that it doesn't use overload, but it doesn't address the issue I am observing.

Edit: I noticed you got into an argument with someone else, so I will just drop it here before I get dragged into it too.

Ok I get what you're saying, but I guess I could say that between guard soul assault and Elemental Blockade I am only using 4 sorc skills on both bars. A templar typically uses more class skills than that so does a NB and as you said DK'S are also limited. So if anything there is less class skills in this build then most other classes use. I see what you mean in regards inflexibility but it's not a whole lot different for other classes. Also didn't mean to come off attacking you. I apologize if that's how I made you feel. I spend a very long time perfecting builds and rotations, it's a passion of mine. I make a huge effort to make them be as far away from the meta as is possible.

Nooo it's fine, you didn't come off as attacking me, I just didn't want to end up getting in the mess too xD

I didn't want to offend you either in any way. But glad you got what I'm saying. I'll take a look on your DK build later when I have a bit of free time, I'm struggling with my Magicka DK right now. Peace