Racial passives update- argonians

Anti_Virus · July 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

You need to understand that in this game there needs to be a group of "niche races" that exist beyond the generic stam or magicka race identity. Yes, the shadowscale idea is great, but you can take advantage of the healing passives by using siphoning abilities to top off your health easier. NB "Saptanks", for example, benefit highly from this change - Funnel Health is more effective with the Argonian passive!

Using cloak and siphoning abilities is much more in line with what a NB is aiming for. Running around out of stealth with a giant 2H is NOT an assassin....

But the problem is every other race has a magic or stam identity.

Argonians are just there. With 3% max magic which is cool but doesn't match their lore in terms of racial passives.

FWIW i hate "identity" justifications. mainly because "identity" is little more than a buzz word for "a notion i cobble together to make a point."

Seems to me IF one believes that using cloak and siphon to get survival health and cloak for stealth and sneak which match the lore... then a small magica boost does help meet that "identity".

Also, the argument that argonians are different from the other races, that they are unique, is not on its surface an element in support of a change to make them more like the others by getting rid of that difference?

"every other race has x and so..." is not a supporting element for any argument except arguments for "races should be the same and so..."

So what you're saying is argonians shouldn't get better max stat passives like the other races to be competitive and that they should just have a small petty "3%" increase to magic?

My arguement is that argonian passives don't match their lore like the other races.

Nords,Orcs, and Redguards are sturdy warrior races with passives to match and addtional benefits such as "rugged" for nords "swift warrior" for orcs and "adrenaline rush" for redguards

Argonians a race that is best at guerilla warfare tactics, little magic, great thieves, and assassins accoring to lore do not have passives that reflect that.

A potion passive, a small max stat increase which doen't make them assassins/thieves,

Healing passives is the only one that matches swim speed is just niche but nice.

Leon119 · July 2016

Face it. Lizards arent people. You should be grateful you even get passives.

In all honesty im ok with it. Not all argonians are born shadowscales. Im pretty sure those are the exceptions. Same with nord mages ( shalidor? ) imperial mages and even redguard necromancers.

Lysette · July 2016

IMO Oblivion had the best system when it comes to racial abilities - each race had their special abilities, which were nearest to the lore. With Argonians this is a bit difficult, because male and female argonians differed in their attributes a whole lot from each other - like I said before, exceptional speed and agility was the male argonian trait, whereas exceptional intelligence was the attribute of female Argonians, which made them overall good mages, which did not have the flaw of the Altmers, to be vulnerable to all kind of magic.

The racial passives in ESO for Argonians reflect none of these gender traits - they are neither exceptional in speed and agility, so they do not reflect the male traits, nor are they exceptional with magicka, which would reflect the female trait. The other 7 racial boni are as well mostly neglected - overall it is very dissatisfying how racial passives of Argonians are chosen in ESO.

Healing passives make the least sense of all - in Oblivion Argonians of both genders had just 30 endurance - which gave them a lower health pool and a lower rate of health regeneration. So to give Argonians healing passives is just plain bs and taken out of thin air. The natural abilities of Argonians in Oblivion did not point to them being good tanks at all - if not protected by their magic abilities or their agility and speed - this makes this passive in ESO very unreasonable.

Instead ZOS gave Orcs the speed bonus - where Orcs had just 30/35 in these stats and should be slower and less agile than the average person, not more. I don't know if Mr. Wrobel has even looked at what it was like in Oblivion, before he came up with these passives.

Footfalls · July 2016

I think we've said all that can be said. Argonians have disease/poison resist, but other than that their current passives don't reflect their descriptions in the lore. I'm disappointed that we're not going to get stamina passives or passives that relate to stealth/increased poison/disease damage this patch. Instead we're now the magicka healer race for god knows what reason. At least they changed healing so it's not a complete nerf to stam builds.

I implore you not to ignore what's been said about Argonian lore @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_Eric Wrobel. Argonians are a hybrid race, not magicka or healing specialists.

As a suggestion:

2/4/6% stam, +1/3/5% disease/poison damage
2/4/6% health, +disease/poison resist (same resist numbers as live but lowered health to compensate for other buffs)
2/4/6% magicka, +1/3/5% healing taken (because healing taken is more lore friendly than healing done for Argonians)

This makes Argonians more of a hybrid race (fits with their lore) while also making sure they won't outshine the current top dps races (because those are completely focused on either magicka or stamina).

Also, giving Argonians a lore-friendly +poison/disease damage passive opens up design space for other lore-friendly passives for other races such as +physical damage for Redguard/Orc/Nord, +magic damage for Breton and +bow damage for Bosmer.