Racial passives update- argonians

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So I finished watching the latest ESO live stream and it was great.

But when @Wrobel starting talking about argonians he only considered the tank and healer types of argonians.

But not all argonians are tanks and healers, I choose to play an argonian as a "shadow scale" stam NB and yet the passive are geared to be more magic based.

Even though Wrobel said he wanted passives to match the lore the argonian ones don't seems to match up as much compared to other ES games.

Argonians are gurella warfare fighters/ scouts/ and assassins(accoring to lore and past ES games) yet they have max magica passives and healing ones.
One change that I personally and maybe others would like to see is some max stamina passive maybe 3% max stam in addtion to 3% max magic could be a good start. I know its not easy to please everyone but this change could be an excellent start for the third type of argonian players out there.

Right now khajiits are the superior Rouge/stealth/assassin/thief race of the beast races in this game compared to past ES.

Opinions? Thoughts? Questions?

LadyNalcarya

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

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KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

LadyNalcarya

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

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KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

Yeah, in skyrim they had passives like pickpocketing, sneaking, archery and so on which was geared for more of a guerilla warfare hit n run style fighting. Sad that in this game the great enduring race of tamrial is best as a healer.

Darkonflare15

Umm not all Argonians are shadowcales only a select few Argonians became shadowscales. If they was to be lore friendly it would be only males get the stealth bonuses and females get the magic bonus. Most of the stats they had in the older games are not even in this game.

LadyNalcarya

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Umm not all Argonians are shadowcales only a select few Argonians became shadowscales. If they was to be lore friendly it would be only males get the stealth bonuses and females get the magic bonus. Most of the stats they had in the older games are not even in this game.

Of course not, its just one of race's archetypes, just like "nord warrior" or "altmer mage".
Most of people of any race are just, well, average people, not super awesome mages or warriors or assassins but there are things each race is well known for.

Darkonflare15

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

Yeah, in skyrim they had passives like pickpocketing, sneaking, archery and so on which was geared for more of a guerilla warfare hit n run style fighting. Sad that in this game the great enduring race of tamrial is best as a healer.

No the great enduring race is good at healing their selves like Histskin in Skyrim.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Umm not all Argonians are shadowcales only a select few Argonians became shadowscales. If they was to be lore friendly it would be only males get the stealth bonuses and females get the magic bonus. Most of the stats they had in the older games are not even in this game.

Of course not, its just one of race's archetypes, just like "nord warrior" or "altmer mage".
Most of people of any race are just, well, average people, not super awesome mages or warriors or assassins but there are things each race is well known for.

Yes and that is skirmishers not assassins.

LadyNalcarya

@Darkonflare15 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

Yeah, in skyrim they had passives like pickpocketing, sneaking, archery and so on which was geared for more of a guerilla warfare hit n run style fighting. Sad that in this game the great enduring race of tamrial is best as a healer.

No the great enduring race is good at healing their selves like Histskin in Skyrim.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Umm not all Argonians are shadowcales only a select few Argonians became shadowscales. If they was to be lore friendly it would be only males get the stealth bonuses and females get the magic bonus. Most of the stats they had in the older games are not even in this game.

Of course not, its just one of race's archetypes, just like "nord warrior" or "altmer mage".
Most of people of any race are just, well, average people, not super awesome mages or warriors or assassins but there are things each race is well known for.

Yes and that is skirmishers not assassins.

Themselves, not the others. Super fast regeneration doesnt even mean that you can heal others. Also in Skyrim all racials are extremely diluted compared to Morrowind.
And not just skirmisher - same could be said about redguards or even nords. Argonians did have stealth/lockpick bonuses in previous TES games as well. I'll just copy my message from another thread:

"Lets take a look at their Morrowind stats:

Athletics +15
Alchemy +5
Illusion +5
Medium Armor +5
Mysticism +5
Spear +5
Unarmored +5

And on their Oblivion stats:

+10 Athletics and Security
+5 Alchemy, Blade, Hand to Hand, Illusion, and Mysticism

In Skyrim they got a minor (+5) bonus to restoration, but the main theme remained the same:

+10 Lockpicking
+5 Alteration, Light Armor, Pickpocket, Restoration, Sneak"

*keep in mind that in Skyrim light armor was the same as medium in ESO, and robes and such werent considered to be armor.

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Darkonflare15 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

Yeah, in skyrim they had passives like pickpocketing, sneaking, archery and so on which was geared for more of a guerilla warfare hit n run style fighting. Sad that in this game the great enduring race of tamrial is best as a healer.

No the great enduring race is good at healing their selves like Histskin in Skyrim.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Umm not all Argonians are shadowcales only a select few Argonians became shadowscales. If they was to be lore friendly it would be only males get the stealth bonuses and females get the magic bonus. Most of the stats they had in the older games are not even in this game.

Of course not, its just one of race's archetypes, just like "nord warrior" or "altmer mage".
Most of people of any race are just, well, average people, not super awesome mages or warriors or assassins but there are things each race is well known for.

Yes and that is skirmishers not assassins.

Argonians are guerilla warfare fighters which involves hit n run tactics which is skirmishing in the smallest form argonians aren't as big and sturdy as a nord or redguard so they wouldn't be a skirmisher. Their guerilla warfare tactics is essentially assassination tactics.

How do Nightblades play? The attack their targets if they die its good, if not NBs run which us similar to argonian fighting tactics.

All Argonians are guerilla warfare fighters some are great healers yes, but you can't heal your enemies to death. Their passives are set up for healing roles and less "skirmishers" roles. Small flexible frames similar to khajiits allows makes them excellent scouts and skirmishers and really great assassins they can breath underwater, are immune to diseases and they are reptilian so they are fast.

Also a lot of the DB is made up of argonians. So even though there are only a few Argonians that are shaddow scales they are pretty dangerous assassins.

LadyNalcarya

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

Yeah, in skyrim they had passives like pickpocketing, sneaking, archery and so on which was geared for more of a guerilla warfare hit n run style fighting. Sad that in this game the great enduring race of tamrial is best as a healer.

No the great enduring race is good at healing their selves like Histskin in Skyrim.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Umm not all Argonians are shadowcales only a select few Argonians became shadowscales. If they was to be lore friendly it would be only males get the stealth bonuses and females get the magic bonus. Most of the stats they had in the older games are not even in this game.

Of course not, its just one of race's archetypes, just like "nord warrior" or "altmer mage".
Most of people of any race are just, well, average people, not super awesome mages or warriors or assassins but there are things each race is well known for.

Yes and that is skirmishers not assassins.

Argonians are guerilla warfare fighter which involves hit n run tactics which skirmishing in the smallest form argonians aren't as big and sturdy as a nord or redguard so they wouldn't be a skirmisher. Their guerilla warfare tactics is essentially assassination tactics.

How do Nightblades play? The attack their targets if they die its good, if not NBs run which us similar to argonian fighting tactics.

All Argonians are guerilla warfare fighters some are great healers yes, but you can't heal your enemies to death. Their passives are set up for healing roles and less "skirmishers" roles. Small flexible frames similar to khajiits allows makes them excellent scouts and skirmishers and really great assassins they can breath underwater, are immune to diseases and they are reptilian so they are fast.

Also a lot of the DB is made up of argonians. So even though there are only a few Argonians that are shaddow scales they are pretty dangerous assassin.

+Shadowscales are just argonians born under specific constellation, they share physiology with the rest of the race.
And unique argonian traits make them good at their "work".

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KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

Yeah, in skyrim they had passives like pickpocketing, sneaking, archery and so on which was geared for more of a guerilla warfare hit n run style fighting. Sad that in this game the great enduring race of tamrial is best as a healer.

No the great enduring race is good at healing their selves like Histskin in Skyrim.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Umm not all Argonians are shadowcales only a select few Argonians became shadowscales. If they was to be lore friendly it would be only males get the stealth bonuses and females get the magic bonus. Most of the stats they had in the older games are not even in this game.

Of course not, its just one of race's archetypes, just like "nord warrior" or "altmer mage".
Most of people of any race are just, well, average people, not super awesome mages or warriors or assassins but there are things each race is well known for.

Yes and that is skirmishers not assassins.

Argonians are guerilla warfare fighter which involves hit n run tactics which skirmishing in the smallest form argonians aren't as big and sturdy as a nord or redguard so they wouldn't be a skirmisher. Their guerilla warfare tactics is essentially assassination tactics.

How do Nightblades play? The attack their targets if they die its good, if not NBs run which us similar to argonian fighting tactics.

All Argonians are guerilla warfare fighters some are great healers yes, but you can't heal your enemies to death. Their passives are set up for healing roles and less "skirmishers" roles. Small flexible frames similar to khajiits allows makes them excellent scouts and skirmishers and really great assassins they can breath underwater, are immune to diseases and they are reptilian so they are fast.

Also a lot of the DB is made up of argonians. So even though there are only a few Argonians that are shaddow scales they are pretty dangerous assassin.

+Shadowscales are just argonians born under specific constellation, they share physiology with the rest of the race.
And unique argonian traits make them good at their "work".

Nords and altmer although not all are mages and warriors have their passives geard towards that playstyle.

While argonians have passives geared towards being a healer. LOL

LadyNalcarya

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

Yeah, in skyrim they had passives like pickpocketing, sneaking, archery and so on which was geared for more of a guerilla warfare hit n run style fighting. Sad that in this game the great enduring race of tamrial is best as a healer.

No the great enduring race is good at healing their selves like Histskin in Skyrim.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Umm not all Argonians are shadowcales only a select few Argonians became shadowscales. If they was to be lore friendly it would be only males get the stealth bonuses and females get the magic bonus. Most of the stats they had in the older games are not even in this game.

Of course not, its just one of race's archetypes, just like "nord warrior" or "altmer mage".
Most of people of any race are just, well, average people, not super awesome mages or warriors or assassins but there are things each race is well known for.

Yes and that is skirmishers not assassins.

Argonians are guerilla warfare fighter which involves hit n run tactics which skirmishing in the smallest form argonians aren't as big and sturdy as a nord or redguard so they wouldn't be a skirmisher. Their guerilla warfare tactics is essentially assassination tactics.

How do Nightblades play? The attack their targets if they die its good, if not NBs run which us similar to argonian fighting tactics.

All Argonians are guerilla warfare fighters some are great healers yes, but you can't heal your enemies to death. Their passives are set up for healing roles and less "skirmishers" roles. Small flexible frames similar to khajiits allows makes them excellent scouts and skirmishers and really great assassins they can breath underwater, are immune to diseases and they are reptilian so they are fast.

Also a lot of the DB is made up of argonians. So even though there are only a few Argonians that are shaddow scales they are pretty dangerous assassin.

+Shadowscales are just argonians born under specific constellation, they share physiology with the rest of the race.
And unique argonian traits make them good at their "work".

Nords and altmer although not all are mages and warriors have their passives geard towards that playstyle.

While argonians have passives geared towards being a healer. LOL

Yeah, it doesnt make sense XD
I meant "in previous games".

Whatzituyah

Heh Spears in Morrowind we don't even have that or unarmed in ESO. Even though you can do unarmed not practical.

#give_unarmed_a_skill_line

Lord_Eomer

Why do not we have classification or style under each crace and passives are relevant to style I.e.

A. Argonian Healer
B. Argonian Shadowacale

Whatzituyah

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Why do not we have classification or style under each crace and passives are relevant to style I.e.

A. Argonian Healer
B. Argonian Shadowacale

@Lord_Dexter So we will have race morphs now?

Lord_Eomer

Yea exactly, this is best way to address people complaints..

As I m happy as Argonian Healer but people want them as Shadowscale as per lore.

Same can go for all races to have more opportunities to explore race potential and come up with different builds..

Whatzituyah

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Yea exactly, this is best way to address people complaints..

As I m happy as Argonian Healer but people want them as Shadowscale as per lore.

Same can go for all races to have more opportunities to explore race potential and come up with different builds..

@Lord_Dexter I see one flaw that means all races would have to have two morphs! You only gave examples for Argonian. Oh right you said in example but still.

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Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Why do not we have classification or style under each crace and passives are relevant to style I.e.

A. Argonian Healer
B. Argonian Shadowacale

What do you mean by this? Can you explain more.

Whatzituyah

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Why do not we have classification or style under each crace and passives are relevant to style I.e.

A. Argonian Healer
B. Argonian Shadowacale

What do you mean by this? Can you explain more.

Race Morph. Basically apon character creation you can morph it to a different type I know one game that does this.

Rohamad_Ali

Im about fed up with the wrobel effect .

Vercingetorix

You need to understand that in this game there needs to be a group of "niche races" that exist beyond the generic stam or magicka race identity. Yes, the shadowscale idea is great, but you can take advantage of the healing passives by using siphoning abilities to top off your health easier. NB "Saptanks", for example, benefit highly from this change - Funnel Health is more effective with the Argonian passive!

Using cloak and siphoning abilities is much more in line with what a NB is aiming for. Running around out of stealth with a giant 2H is NOT an assassin....

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Vercingetorix wrote: »

You need to understand that in this game there needs to be a group of "niche races" that exist beyond the generic stam or magicka race identity. Yes, the shadowscale idea is great, but you can take advantage of the healing passives by using siphoning abilities to top off your health easier. NB "Saptanks", for example, benefit highly from this change - Funnel Health is more effective with the Argonian passive!

Using cloak and siphoning abilities is much more in line with what a NB is aiming for. Running around out of stealth with a giant 2H is NOT an assassin....

But the problem is every other race has a magic or stam identity.

Argonians are just there. With 3% max magic which is cool but doesn't match their lore in terms of racial passives.

Shadesofkin

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

So I finished watching the latest ESO live stream and it was great.

But when @Wrobel starting talking about argonians he only considered the tank and healer types of argonians.

But not all argonians are tanks and healers, I choose to play an argonian as a "shadow scale" stam NB and yet the passive are geared to be more magic based.

Even though Wrobel said he wanted passives to match the lore the argonian ones don't seems to match up as much compared to other ES games.

Argonians are gurella warfare fighters/ scouts/ and assassins(accoring to lore and past ES games) yet they have max magica passives and healing ones.
One change that I personally and maybe others would like to see is some max stamina passive maybe 3% max stam in addtion to 3% max magic could be a good start. I know its not easy to please everyone but this change could be an excellent start for the third type of argonian players out there.

Right now khajiits are the superior Rouge/stealth/assassin/thief race of the beast races in this game compared to past ES.

Opinions? Thoughts? Questions?

That's forward from Morrowind, prior to that the Arena and Daggerfall Argonians were known for their intelligence and magickal aptitude as well.

This is 2nd Era, consider them more akin to their Arena and Daggerfall selves.

Kronuxx

Shadesofkin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

So I finished watching the latest ESO live stream and it was great.

But when @Wrobel starting talking about argonians he only considered the tank and healer types of argonians.

But not all argonians are tanks and healers, I choose to play an argonian as a "shadow scale" stam NB and yet the passive are geared to be more magic based.

Even though Wrobel said he wanted passives to match the lore the argonian ones don't seems to match up as much compared to other ES games.

Argonians are gurella warfare fighters/ scouts/ and assassins(accoring to lore and past ES games) yet they have max magica passives and healing ones.
One change that I personally and maybe others would like to see is some max stamina passive maybe 3% max stam in addtion to 3% max magic could be a good start. I know its not easy to please everyone but this change could be an excellent start for the third type of argonian players out there.

Right now khajiits are the superior Rouge/stealth/assassin/thief race of the beast races in this game compared to past ES.

Opinions? Thoughts? Questions?

That's forward from Morrowind, prior to that the Arena and Daggerfall Argonians were known for their intelligence and magickal aptitude as well.

This is 2nd Era, consider them more akin to their Arena and Daggerfall selves.

Taken from UESP.net for Argonians in Arena: "They are known for their intelligence, agility, and speed."

Upon selection of the argonian race in Arena you get the following prompt:
Know ye this also:
Thy race is born of the swamps, thou hast stayed thyself from the open fields, for thou art hunters of a different sort, those who stalk thy prey in the still black waters...

Seems to me, it's just like many others have been saying. They are a hybrid race. Not just intelligence...

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Kronuxx wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

So I finished watching the latest ESO live stream and it was great.

But when @Wrobel starting talking about argonians he only considered the tank and healer types of argonians.

But not all argonians are tanks and healers, I choose to play an argonian as a "shadow scale" stam NB and yet the passive are geared to be more magic based.

Even though Wrobel said he wanted passives to match the lore the argonian ones don't seems to match up as much compared to other ES games.

Argonians are gurella warfare fighters/ scouts/ and assassins(accoring to lore and past ES games) yet they have max magica passives and healing ones.
One change that I personally and maybe others would like to see is some max stamina passive maybe 3% max stam in addtion to 3% max magic could be a good start. I know its not easy to please everyone but this change could be an excellent start for the third type of argonian players out there.

Right now khajiits are the superior Rouge/stealth/assassin/thief race of the beast races in this game compared to past ES.

Opinions? Thoughts? Questions?

That's forward from Morrowind, prior to that the Arena and Daggerfall Argonians were known for their intelligence and magickal aptitude as well.

This is 2nd Era, consider them more akin to their Arena and Daggerfall selves.

Taken from UESP.net for Argonians in Arena: "They are known for their intelligence, agility, and speed."

Upon selection of the argonian race in Arena you get the following prompt:
Know ye this also:
Thy race is born of the swamps, thou hast stayed thyself from the open fields, for thou art hunters of a different sort, those who stalk thy prey in the still black waters...

Seems to me, it's just like many others have been saying. They are a hybrid race. Not just intelligence...

And in daggerfall they had:

Argonian Males
+10 Agility
+10 Speed
-10 Endurance

Argonian Females
+10 Strength
-10 Endurance

Argonians best attribute from EVERY(minus skyrim) game has been their speed. The only way you can really say they are even hybrids is if you look at the difference between the male and female attributes, but speed and athleticism has always been strong between the sexes. Some how zos thinks these racials match lore....... I think what makes me the most angry about this is how orcs get a speed bonus though, it is legitimately the biggest slap in the face racial issue in this game by far. I honestly don't think lore was taken into account at all giving the slowest *** race a speed boost and giving the lowest hp race a health bonus. Its kinda scary really, having a team making your game that chooses to completely ignore the previous 5 games worth of examples on how to make racials. Got to wonder how else could they arrive at the INSANE leap in logic to make the slowest race into the fastest one. They must have totally ignored all 5 previous games, it is honestly the only way. Either that or they did it on purpose to make people upset.

No op they may say they wanted racials to match the lore better, but in reality they just wanted a healer race. If they really would have looked at lore, then imperials would have been given the healing bonus(+10 restoration in skyrim, the most up to date game) and they would have gotten their healer race. They obviously do not care about lore and throw the word around as an attempt to fool blind people that have never even looked at racials in previous games. Argonian race changes are going to sell like mad with all the healers that want to be meta, it has nothing to do with lore.

Lysette

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

In Oblivion it depended on gender - whilst males were the typical rogue/shadowscale type, their females were just average in this but had an affinity to magic - so this magical thing is not taken out of thin air - but it was just applied to females before.

LadyNalcarya

@Lysette wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

In Oblivion it depended on gender - whilst males were the typical rogue/shadowscale type, their females were just average in this but had an affinity to magic - so this magical thing is not taken out of thin air - but it was just applied to females before.

In Morrowind too, female and male chars had different stats.
Yes, but "magicka" races still had stronger affinity to magic. For example, altmers in morrowind had 150% extra magicka for example. And argonian magicka bonuses werent related to healing (except +5 bonus in Skyrim), and they were mixed with sneak etc.

Lysette

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@Lysette wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

In Oblivion it depended on gender - whilst males were the typical rogue/shadowscale type, their females were just average in this but had an affinity to magic - so this magical thing is not taken out of thin air - but it was just applied to females before.

In Morrowind too, female and male chars had different stats.
Yes, but "magicka" races still had stronger affinity to magic. For example, altmers in morrowind had 150% extra magicka for example. And argonian magicka bonuses werent related to healing (except +5 bonus in Skyrim), and they were mixed with sneak etc.

Yes, but when you look at the starting attributes, argonian females had 50 intelligence and 40 willpower - whilst willpower is average, 50 intelligence is exceptional and governed magicka - whereas the males had 40 intelligence and 30 willpower, what made them pretty vulnerable to magic, but they had 50 speed and 50 agility, whereas the females had just average 40 in those.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races

I played argonian females in Oblivion born under the atronach birthsign - that made for quite cool mages with a large magicka pool, which is refilled in the later game pretty much constantly by magicka-based opponents. And unlike Altmer they do not have a disadvantage when it comes to magic used on them. The main disadvantage of argonians in Oblivion was their low endurance, which led to less health points.

arkansas_ESO

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Why do not we have classification or style under each crace and passives are relevant to style I.e.

A. Argonian Healer
B. Argonian Shadowacale

ZOS would be better off entirely uncoupling racial passives from races, and instead making racial passives "identities" and making choosing a race purely aesthetic. This way, you could be an Argonian with khajiit or bosmer racial passives, and play an assassin-focused Argonian without penalty.

LadyNalcarya

Lysette wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@Lysette wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I'm disappointed tbh.
This change was only made to cater to people who dont understand how those +exp passives work, and it would be much more lore-friendly to add more "shadowscale" flavour to the race.
What do we know about argonians? They can survive in Black March which is not exactly a friendly environment. They're known for their guerilla warfare. If you look at their passives in previous games, they had nightblade-ish set of bonuses.
And yes, they had +to intelligence and some magic schools, but it was never comparable to insane 150% magicka boost that altmers used to have (in Morrowind).

Yeah, I was hoping for more shadow scale friendly passives, since that's how their lore plus imoI thing argonians look cooler in leather than wearing rags or plate

Yeah, they surely needed a buff.
But the thing is, this buff makes them less versatile then they are supposed to be.
I've read a lot of ingame books and dialogues, but I've never seen any mentions that argonians are superior at healing others. Though I've read that during Oblivion crisis Hist took control on all Black March's argonians and they've counter attacked dremoras so furiously that they had to close Oblivion gates. Surely they didnt heal dremoras to death or something.
Also, Black March is always described as a very unfriendly land. So it would make sense for its inhabitants to be more endurant.

In Oblivion it depended on gender - whilst males were the typical rogue/shadowscale type, their females were just average in this but had an affinity to magic - so this magical thing is not taken out of thin air - but it was just applied to females before.

In Morrowind too, female and male chars had different stats.
Yes, but "magicka" races still had stronger affinity to magic. For example, altmers in morrowind had 150% extra magicka for example. And argonian magicka bonuses werent related to healing (except +5 bonus in Skyrim), and they were mixed with sneak etc.

Yes, but when you look at the starting attributes, argonian females had 50 intelligence and 40 willpower - whilst willpower is average, 50 intelligence is exceptional and governed magicka - whereas the males had 40 intelligence and 30 willpower, what made them pretty vulnerable to magic, but they had 50 speed and 50 agility, whereas the females had just average 40 in those.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races

I played argonian females in Oblivion born under the atronach birthsign - that made for quite cool mages with a large magicka pool, which is refilled in the later game pretty much constantly by magicka-based opponents. And unlike Altmer they do not have a disadvantage when it comes to magic used on them.

Yes, but the disadvantages are meant to balance OP things, like altmer fortify magicka passive or same effect from atronach mundus.
And in addition to that passive, altmers of both genders had 50 intelligence, so I wouldnt say that magicka pool is comparable.