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Lets Balance Radiant Destruction
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Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Im against any changes to Radiant Destruction including a range nerf for the following reasons:
To disclose i main a Magic Sorc and a Stamina DK, but i do have a magic Templar in VR16 gear with a lot of playtime on that i just don't have the time to gear or invest in
#1. Right now, Gap Closers are stupid OP and have been for over a year. They have way to far of a range/travel distance and do far too much damage for something that is supposed to be a utility skill (closing distance) there are very few skills that out range these gap closers(Radiant Destruction, Crystal Frag, and Snipe being the most popular) This leads to point #2
#2 Melee Magic and Stamina DPS is far more hard hitting then their ranged counter parts. Compare Force Pulse to Molten Whip and Wrecking Blow to Snipe to see where im going with this. Sure, Crystal Frags can hit hard on an instant proc, buts its tied to an RNG chance of spamming other skills, Snipe has a cast time of 1.1 secs, and all magic ranged projectiles can be countered by Defensive Stance and Dragon Scales, and Ranged Stamina Attacks can be counterted by Dragon Scales and Total Dark.
What many fail to address is "that Jesus Beaming Templar" will get absolutely destroyed by any Magic or Stamina Melee Build that gets in melee range of him....and with the OP spammable nature of gap closers, any Magic Templar that isn't a zergling will get owned in most cases relying on Radiant. No different then the Snipe spamming Nightblades will get owned if any Magic or Stamina Melee DPS build gets in close with pressure.
Radiant Destruction will be useless if you nerf the range on it...Templars have ZERO class skills that give them Major Evasion, Major Expedition....they are every bit as immobile as Magicka DK are, the only thing that keeps them from being terrible as Magic DK in open world PVP is they have a good heal and a great purge, if they didn't have that and you nerf Jesus Beam the class will be in the trash heap.
Radiant Destruction right now is about 10% less damage then most melee stam and magic melee attacks over the channel time of the beam...In most cases, you can dish out 3 Surprise Attacks in the time it takes to channel that beam and in cases where the target has more then 40% health those Surprise Attacks will do more damage, In most cases, Pyromancer Destro Staff Spell Damage focused DK can spam 3 Molten Whips in that time that will do more damage to targets over 40% health then Radiant will over its channel.
I don't see this "toxic issue" 99% of the time you die to RD you would have died anyway, big deal. If you nerf the range, folks will just pick something else....i have hit folks for over 24k with a Power Overload Attacks this patch, if built for it you can hit nearly 30k Empowered Frags on someone, see QAM most recent video, his entire build is focused on 2 hit killing you with Curse + Empowered Frags with High Max Magic...that hits way harder then Radiant Destruction and can also be done behind a zerg meatshield.
Radiant Destruction is no more toxic then anything else at this point, i'd rather have Blinding Flashes back, but oh well...:(
Magplars are not the most vulnerable targets at all, especially to melee. They are often the hardest to get through. 2 malubeth, 5 heavy.. take your pick of sustain/survival.. all are good.. and then run 5 pc counter part of survival/sustain to complement. This could be jags and reactive or something more in one direction or another. Ultimately, any melee dps is gonna be hitting that guy for awhile. It's often the worst target to kill outside of dk tanks which go out of their way to do nothing in the fight.
Magplars are still able to heal others and beam if not addressed. Even with that much survival packed in, the beam is a constant and real threat. That's a problem.
Why is being able to heal and have a beam thats a threat a problem? Other than purify my main heals are all non templar skills. When we still ran groups i didnt even use repentence as often as i used to because running up to hit it could be a death sentence if you get caught in a negate before it goes off and you get stam back. Every other class could fulfill the group heal role i played, ironically enough, and still do damagr and be a threat. Maybe not a specific threat to your exact build because you had a reflect or something, but theyd be a threat to someone. Just as there are builds that are a threat to magplars, only one side is asking for their threats to be nerfed, only one side refuses to acknowledge the outnumbered situatioj they complain about is just as bad for other builds and other threatening skills.5 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I can see your point @FENGRUSH
Your right Maulbeth + Reactive/Kags is a problem as well, but if they actually fix Malabeth you would find these Beam Templars would be far easier to kill then they are right now.
In the end i'd rather they fix the bugged Maulabeth set first, and then see how things play it. I got a feeling those Beam plars become significantly easier to kill when they don;t have these bugged sets propping them up, which is fair trade on the hard hitting but squishy balance.
In the end though, its really sad that such unbalanced sets like Malabeth have bene allowed to be broken for so long. I have seen it bug for some pretty ridiculous heals and that combined with Beam plars is a bit unbalanced, i'll give you that.
Easier, yes. Not easy though. Comparatively speaking still amongst the hardest to kill while providing great support and utility. I like their kit, it's balanced well on all fronts. Their sustain:effectiveness is an issue. Less their heals and more their ability to be a force to so many near or below 50% in such a short time while investing so little in it. Tanky dk, sorc, nb.. will not provide that level of threat and cant. The way this execute functions is different, and that's fine.. but players need time to react. If you can't give some time on the front end, Zos will end up destroying the skills numbers on raw damage.
Best to get on board with a reasonable outlook or the skill gets RIPd.
FFS. Sorc nb and dk even when tanky can still put pressure on people. All of haxus dps play tanky and can put pressure, most of them DK. Those classes may not often pressure YOUR build, but they can pressure other builds. Jesus beam is something i shrug off on my build, things that youd shrug off on yours pressure mine. Why is it so impossible for people to look beyond their own specific vulnerability when evaluating how OP something is?
Malubeth is not just a templar issue, in fact every stam build has just as much healing and can do just as much damage - just a different kind of damage. A skill should never be nerfed because a set is too strong.7 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Is it possible to let this thread die? Good grief!
When someone can explain why an outnumbered situation where multiple people cast a skill that makes your build pressured is any different than when its done with jesus beam, then yes. Everyone argues 'but my build is threatened by it' and go silent when asked what about other builds that do fine with it but struggle with other skills in the exact same situation they're complaining about.Edited by Zheg on July 12, 2016 2:26PM3 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep the whine alive!
L2P is way too hard, they should nerf anything that kills you, good luck with that.4 -
Papa_Hunt✭✭✭Ever notice (for the most part) how people calling for nerfs aren’t playing the class they want to nerf?
People not playing NBs calling for nerfs on fear…people not playing Templars calling for nerfs on RD…etc.
Just an observation. And before I get jumped on, I know there are exceptions (but not many).6 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I can see your point @FENGRUSH
Your right Maulbeth + Reactive/Kags is a problem as well, but if they actually fix Malabeth you would find these Beam Templars would be far easier to kill then they are right now.
In the end i'd rather they fix the bugged Maulabeth set first, and then see how things play it. I got a feeling those Beam plars become significantly easier to kill when they don;t have these bugged sets propping them up, which is fair trade on the hard hitting but squishy balance.
In the end though, its really sad that such unbalanced sets like Malabeth have bene allowed to be broken for so long. I have seen it bug for some pretty ridiculous heals and that combined with Beam plars is a bit unbalanced, i'll give you that.
Easier, yes. Not easy though. Comparatively speaking still amongst the hardest to kill while providing great support and utility. I like their kit, it's balanced well on all fronts. Their sustain:effectiveness is an issue. Less their heals and more their ability to be a force to so many near or below 50% in such a short time while investing so little in it. Tanky dk, sorc, nb.. will not provide that level of threat and cant. The way this execute functions is different, and that's fine.. but players need time to react. If you can't give some time on the front end, Zos will end up destroying the skills numbers on raw damage.
Best to get on board with a reasonable outlook or the skill gets RIPd.
FFS. Sorc nb and dk even when tanky can still put pressure on people. All of haxus dps play tanky and can put pressure, most of them DK. Those classes may not often pressure YOUR build, but they can pressure other builds. Jesus beam is something i shrug off on my build, things that youd shrug off on yours pressure mine. Why is it so impossible for people to look beyond their own specific vulnerability when evaluating how OP something is?
Malubeth is not just a templar issue, in fact every stam build has just as much healing and can do just as much damage - just a different kind of damage. A skill should never be nerfed because a set is too strong.
Weren't you comparing snipe to radiant? Not wasting pages on you. Bring your measly dk or nb tanks and we'll measure their utility and potential to execute from 50%.1 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The OP plays a Templar and is explaining why one of the skills is not balanced. I play a Templar and agree with him. I also play magic sorc and I've seen where nerfs can lead when skills are left unbalanced for too long.Ever notice (for the most part) how people calling for nerfs aren’t playing the class they want to nerf?
People not playing NBs calling for nerfs on fear…people not playing Templars calling for nerfs on RD…etc.
Just an observation. And before I get jumped on, I know there are exceptions (but not many).Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Im against any changes to Radiant Destruction including a range nerf for the following reasons:
To disclose i main a Magic Sorc and a Stamina DK, but i do have a magic Templar in VR16 gear with a lot of playtime on that i just don't have the time to gear or invest in
#1. Right now, Gap Closers are stupid OP and have been for over a year. They have way to far of a range/travel distance and do far too much damage for something that is supposed to be a utility skill (closing distance) there are very few skills that out range these gap closers(Radiant Destruction, Crystal Frag, and Snipe being the most popular) This leads to point #2
#2 Melee Magic and Stamina DPS is far more hard hitting then their ranged counter parts. Compare Force Pulse to Molten Whip and Wrecking Blow to Snipe to see where im going with this. Sure, Crystal Frags can hit hard on an instant proc, buts its tied to an RNG chance of spamming other skills, Snipe has a cast time of 1.1 secs, and all magic ranged projectiles can be countered by Defensive Stance and Dragon Scales, and Ranged Stamina Attacks can be counterted by Dragon Scales and Total Dark.
What many fail to address is "that Jesus Beaming Templar" will get absolutely destroyed by any Magic or Stamina Melee Build that gets in melee range of him....and with the OP spammable nature of gap closers, any Magic Templar that isn't a zergling will get owned in most cases relying on Radiant. No different then the Snipe spamming Nightblades will get owned if any Magic or Stamina Melee DPS build gets in close with pressure.
Radiant Destruction will be useless if you nerf the range on it...Templars have ZERO class skills that give them Major Evasion, Major Expedition....they are every bit as immobile as Magicka DK are, the only thing that keeps them from being terrible as Magic DK in open world PVP is they have a good heal and a great purge, if they didn't have that and you nerf Jesus Beam the class will be in the trash heap.
Radiant Destruction right now is about 10% less damage then most melee stam and magic melee attacks over the channel time of the beam...In most cases, you can dish out 3 Surprise Attacks in the time it takes to channel that beam and in cases where the target has more then 40% health those Surprise Attacks will do more damage, In most cases, Pyromancer Destro Staff Spell Damage focused DK can spam 3 Molten Whips in that time that will do more damage to targets over 40% health then Radiant will over its channel.
I don't see this "toxic issue" 99% of the time you die to RD you would have died anyway, big deal. If you nerf the range, folks will just pick something else....i have hit folks for over 24k with a Power Overload Attacks this patch, if built for it you can hit nearly 30k Empowered Frags on someone, see QAM most recent video, his entire build is focused on 2 hit killing you with Curse + Empowered Frags with High Max Magic...that hits way harder then Radiant Destruction and can also be done behind a zerg meatshield.
Radiant Destruction is no more toxic then anything else at this point, i'd rather have Blinding Flashes back, but oh well...:(
Magplars are not the most vulnerable targets at all, especially to melee. They are often the hardest to get through. 2 malubeth, 5 heavy.. take your pick of sustain/survival.. all are good.. and then run 5 pc counter part of survival/sustain to complement. This could be jags and reactive or something more in one direction or another. Ultimately, any melee dps is gonna be hitting that guy for awhile. It's often the worst target to kill outside of dk tanks which go out of their way to do nothing in the fight.
Magplars are still able to heal others and beam if not addressed. Even with that much survival packed in, the beam is a constant and real threat. That's a problem.
If you die to a magplar on a stam build, magsorc, or magblade it was your choice to die. You can disengage at will and there is nothing we can do about it other than RD. Magplars ability to stand their ground, heal, and ranged execute is justified by the fact that their death is inevitable when they are overwhelmed and they have no mobility. In a bad situation the death of a magplar may be slow, like chopping down a tree with a butter knife, but it will eventually go down. All Stam builds, sorcs, and NBs have tools that help them escape bad situations.Ever notice (for the most part) how people calling for nerfs aren’t playing the class they want to nerf?
People not playing NBs calling for nerfs on fear…people not playing Templars calling for nerfs on RD…etc.
Just an observation. And before I get jumped on, I know there are exceptions (but not many).
This is true. Blabafat is the only notable player that regularly asks for his main class to be nerfed.Edited by timidobserver on July 12, 2016 2:48PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭Right now Stam Sorc is really the class with insanely overpowered abilities to do damage and survive nearly every situation. Steady healing and insane dps at the same time is great.3 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I can see your point @FENGRUSH
Your right Maulbeth + Reactive/Kags is a problem as well, but if they actually fix Malabeth you would find these Beam Templars would be far easier to kill then they are right now.
In the end i'd rather they fix the bugged Maulabeth set first, and then see how things play it. I got a feeling those Beam plars become significantly easier to kill when they don;t have these bugged sets propping them up, which is fair trade on the hard hitting but squishy balance.
In the end though, its really sad that such unbalanced sets like Malabeth have bene allowed to be broken for so long. I have seen it bug for some pretty ridiculous heals and that combined with Beam plars is a bit unbalanced, i'll give you that.
Easier, yes. Not easy though. Comparatively speaking still amongst the hardest to kill while providing great support and utility. I like their kit, it's balanced well on all fronts. Their sustain:effectiveness is an issue. Less their heals and more their ability to be a force to so many near or below 50% in such a short time while investing so little in it. Tanky dk, sorc, nb.. will not provide that level of threat and cant. The way this execute functions is different, and that's fine.. but players need time to react. If you can't give some time on the front end, Zos will end up destroying the skills numbers on raw damage.
Best to get on board with a reasonable outlook or the skill gets RIPd.
FFS. Sorc nb and dk even when tanky can still put pressure on people. All of haxus dps play tanky and can put pressure, most of them DK. Those classes may not often pressure YOUR build, but they can pressure other builds. Jesus beam is something i shrug off on my build, things that youd shrug off on yours pressure mine. Why is it so impossible for people to look beyond their own specific vulnerability when evaluating how OP something is?
Malubeth is not just a templar issue, in fact every stam build has just as much healing and can do just as much damage - just a different kind of damage. A skill should never be nerfed because a set is too strong.
Weren't you comparing snipe to radiant? Not wasting pages on you. Bring your measly dk or nb tanks and we'll measure their utility and potential to execute from 50%.
No, i was comparing multiple snipes in an outnumbered situation against a magplar to multiple RDs on your build. Both can deal with that in 1v1 or small scale, both are pressured in an outnumbered situation. You dont want to admit it, because then the entire premise for your wtb nerf goes out the window. If you could actually address that flaw in your argument, you or others would have in the last few dozen threads. Keep deflecting, you'll get awesomes and be able to wait it out until the next nerf jesus beam thread is created.4 -
KisoValley✭✭✭✭✭You can tell that the jesus beam spammers have united on this thread to try stop the most broken and toxic skill in the game from being nerfed.2
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Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KisoValley wrote: »You can tell that the jesus beam spammers have united on this thread to try stop the most broken and toxic skill in the game from being nerfed.
You can tell when the nerfplars have no basis to back up their arguments when they cannot refute a counterpoint thats been given in almodt every single nerf jesus thread thus far. Thinking would be too hard, better to call people forumplars so you dont have to actually provide sound reasoning.2 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭KisoValley wrote: »You can tell that the jesus beam spammers have united on this thread to try stop the most broken and toxic skill in the game from being nerfed.
ahahahahahahahahahaha "most broken and toxic skill in the game"'Chaos2 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I can see your point @FENGRUSH
Your right Maulbeth + Reactive/Kags is a problem as well, but if they actually fix Malabeth you would find these Beam Templars would be far easier to kill then they are right now.
In the end i'd rather they fix the bugged Maulabeth set first, and then see how things play it. I got a feeling those Beam plars become significantly easier to kill when they don;t have these bugged sets propping them up, which is fair trade on the hard hitting but squishy balance.
In the end though, its really sad that such unbalanced sets like Malabeth have bene allowed to be broken for so long. I have seen it bug for some pretty ridiculous heals and that combined with Beam plars is a bit unbalanced, i'll give you that.
Easier, yes. Not easy though. Comparatively speaking still amongst the hardest to kill while providing great support and utility. I like their kit, it's balanced well on all fronts. Their sustain:effectiveness is an issue. Less their heals and more their ability to be a force to so many near or below 50% in such a short time while investing so little in it. Tanky dk, sorc, nb.. will not provide that level of threat and cant. The way this execute functions is different, and that's fine.. but players need time to react. If you can't give some time on the front end, Zos will end up destroying the skills numbers on raw damage.
Best to get on board with a reasonable outlook or the skill gets RIPd.
FFS. Sorc nb and dk even when tanky can still put pressure on people. All of haxus dps play tanky and can put pressure, most of them DK. Those classes may not often pressure YOUR build, but they can pressure other builds. Jesus beam is something i shrug off on my build, things that youd shrug off on yours pressure mine. Why is it so impossible for people to look beyond their own specific vulnerability when evaluating how OP something is?
Malubeth is not just a templar issue, in fact every stam build has just as much healing and can do just as much damage - just a different kind of damage. A skill should never be nerfed because a set is too strong.
Weren't you comparing snipe to radiant? Not wasting pages on you. Bring your measly dk or nb tanks and we'll measure their utility and potential to execute from 50%.
No, i was comparing multiple snipes in an outnumbered situation against a magplar to multiple RDs on your build. Both can deal with that in 1v1 or small scale, both are pressured in an outnumbered situation. You dont want to admit it, because then the entire premise for your wtb nerf goes out the window. If you could actually address that flaw in your argument, you or others would have in the last few dozen threads. Keep deflecting, you'll get awesomes and be able to wait it out until the next nerf jesus beam thread is created.
You're always pressured outnumbered, it's not the point of the discussion. Point is the function and effect.
You already agreed in some other post about my point in this ticking too quickly. You're unwilling to change a stance really, you just move around from place to place. It's literally a waste for anyone to try to reason. You'd get chewed up verbally though and sound as ignorant and stubborn as you are here.1 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Right now Stam Sorc is really the class with insanely overpowered abilities to do damage and survive nearly every situation. Steady healing and insane dps at the same time is great.
10/100 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love how every one of these RD nerf threads is the same damned soap opera but I get sucked into reading them every time.
FFS you guys, this skill is really strong but some of you just blow it way out of proportion. L2 block or slot a cleanse. Or, if you still have problems, slot Venom Arrow or Crushing Shock. Problem solved.
We all know the reason for all the QQ is that it counters your monkey rolling. There needs to be a hard counter to monkey rolling, and this is a great one.5 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭Think we have heard every aspect of this argument at this point.. Lets just play the cards we are dealt and make the best of our favorite class/build we can. ZOS will do whatever they feel like anyway, regardless of what anyone wants.. Pretty sure the official response on this was working as intended, anyway.2 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I can see your point @FENGRUSH
Your right Maulbeth + Reactive/Kags is a problem as well, but if they actually fix Malabeth you would find these Beam Templars would be far easier to kill then they are right now.
In the end i'd rather they fix the bugged Maulabeth set first, and then see how things play it. I got a feeling those Beam plars become significantly easier to kill when they don;t have these bugged sets propping them up, which is fair trade on the hard hitting but squishy balance.
In the end though, its really sad that such unbalanced sets like Malabeth have bene allowed to be broken for so long. I have seen it bug for some pretty ridiculous heals and that combined with Beam plars is a bit unbalanced, i'll give you that.
Easier, yes. Not easy though. Comparatively speaking still amongst the hardest to kill while providing great support and utility. I like their kit, it's balanced well on all fronts. Their sustain:effectiveness is an issue. Less their heals and more their ability to be a force to so many near or below 50% in such a short time while investing so little in it. Tanky dk, sorc, nb.. will not provide that level of threat and cant. The way this execute functions is different, and that's fine.. but players need time to react. If you can't give some time on the front end, Zos will end up destroying the skills numbers on raw damage.
Best to get on board with a reasonable outlook or the skill gets RIPd.
FFS. Sorc nb and dk even when tanky can still put pressure on people. All of haxus dps play tanky and can put pressure, most of them DK. Those classes may not often pressure YOUR build, but they can pressure other builds. Jesus beam is something i shrug off on my build, things that youd shrug off on yours pressure mine. Why is it so impossible for people to look beyond their own specific vulnerability when evaluating how OP something is?
Malubeth is not just a templar issue, in fact every stam build has just as much healing and can do just as much damage - just a different kind of damage. A skill should never be nerfed because a set is too strong.
Weren't you comparing snipe to radiant? Not wasting pages on you. Bring your measly dk or nb tanks and we'll measure their utility and potential to execute from 50%.
No, i was comparing multiple snipes in an outnumbered situation against a magplar to multiple RDs on your build. Both can deal with that in 1v1 or small scale, both are pressured in an outnumbered situation. You dont want to admit it, because then the entire premise for your wtb nerf goes out the window. If you could actually address that flaw in your argument, you or others would have in the last few dozen threads. Keep deflecting, you'll get awesomes and be able to wait it out until the next nerf jesus beam thread is created.
You're always pressured outnumbered, it's not the point of the discussion. Point is the function and effect.
You already agreed in some other post about my point in this ticking too quickly. You're unwilling to change a stance really, you just move around from place to place. It's literally a waste for anyone to try to reason. You'd get chewed up verbally though and sound as ignorant and stubborn as you are here.
I consider the instant tick as more a bug, that's not moving around from place to place. Heres the reality:
You and others say the skill needs to be nerfed in outnumbered situations because of its range and the pressure it puts on you.
A) Magplar is fighting 5 people, 3 of them are jesus beaming from mid range. Maybe going to die, can rotate in purify/harness/healing ward to potentially win or at least live longer.
B )Magplar fights 5 people, 3 of them are sniping. Far more pressure than the jesus beams because they are heal debuffed every snipe and are likely poisoned by at least one of them. The damage is high enough that it doesnt matter if it has execute status, they are very likely to die.
The situations are reversed for you, A is likely death, B you have a good chance of winning or at least surviving a while. You are arguing solely based on your situation and continue to refuse to acknowledge the SAME thing happens on other builds when other skills are spammed on them. The effect is the same, both likely die. The function is irrelevant - jesus beam mechanics are little concern to my templar because shields and purify, they are great concern to you because it goes through dodge. Snipe is no concern to you because you can dodge it, snipe is a big concern (only talking outnumbered because thats the only time you say RD is op) because it ensures i have major defile, does good damage, and procs poisons.
WHAT is so difficult about that connection? WHAT about that comparison makes you shout nerf jesus beam other than bias?Edited by Zheg on July 12, 2016 4:22PM4 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I love how every one of these RD nerf threads is the same damned soap opera but I get sucked into reading them every time.
FFS you guys, this skill is really strong but some of you just blow it way out of proportion. L2 block or slot a cleanse. Or, if you still have problems, slot Venom Arrow or Crushing Shock. Problem solved.
We all know the reason for all the QQ is that it counters your monkey rolling. There needs to be a hard counter to monkey rolling, and this is a great one.
Except where we're magicka players. 0.0 u wot m8?0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »I think I've been killed by RD only once since DB patch on my MagSorc. And yes, I do see ppl who spam the skill, just like every other skill in this game is spammed. To get this worked up over RD is crazy when we literally have ppl who can heal to full while on their azz with broken Maulbeth proc, Reactive armor shenanigans, out of control snares, etc.
There is counterplay here. I am more scared of a Dark Flare spammer than an RD spammer, which is to say not at all. DF has counterplay, RD has counterplay. FFS why should you not have to earn your 1vX?
Because RD is a counter to the current 1vX meta. That's why everyone here hates it.
1vX meta? Wut? I don't follow.
If you mean the meta of the game is currently 1vX, then....no that can't be what you mean. Lol solo play has been consistently nerfed for over a year and is harder now than ever.
If you mean it counters the meta within 1vX, which is stamplar, then I'll point out that Nifty and I are magicka. He's a magplar making this thread after using and benefiting from beam, and I'm a staff mageblade -- entirely opposite the "1vX meta." Jules is a stamplar, but she also plays lots of other classes. Also I feel that if she wanted to nerf the ability just to benefit her rolly polly stamplar friends, she'd simply argue to make it dodgeable. She spoke to this point earlier. Jules care to weigh in?
Overall I think your comment is misrepresenting us, and you know it.
1vx meta?
You mean the meta where multiple poisons stack on people, and everyone's a tank?
There is no 1vx meta.
And to reiterate, I never wanted it dodgeable.1 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I can see your point @FENGRUSH
Your right Maulbeth + Reactive/Kags is a problem as well, but if they actually fix Malabeth you would find these Beam Templars would be far easier to kill then they are right now.
In the end i'd rather they fix the bugged Maulabeth set first, and then see how things play it. I got a feeling those Beam plars become significantly easier to kill when they don;t have these bugged sets propping them up, which is fair trade on the hard hitting but squishy balance.
In the end though, its really sad that such unbalanced sets like Malabeth have bene allowed to be broken for so long. I have seen it bug for some pretty ridiculous heals and that combined with Beam plars is a bit unbalanced, i'll give you that.
Easier, yes. Not easy though. Comparatively speaking still amongst the hardest to kill while providing great support and utility. I like their kit, it's balanced well on all fronts. Their sustain:effectiveness is an issue. Less their heals and more their ability to be a force to so many near or below 50% in such a short time while investing so little in it. Tanky dk, sorc, nb.. will not provide that level of threat and cant. The way this execute functions is different, and that's fine.. but players need time to react. If you can't give some time on the front end, Zos will end up destroying the skills numbers on raw damage.
Best to get on board with a reasonable outlook or the skill gets RIPd.
FFS. Sorc nb and dk even when tanky can still put pressure on people. All of haxus dps play tanky and can put pressure, most of them DK. Those classes may not often pressure YOUR build, but they can pressure other builds. Jesus beam is something i shrug off on my build, things that youd shrug off on yours pressure mine. Why is it so impossible for people to look beyond their own specific vulnerability when evaluating how OP something is?
Malubeth is not just a templar issue, in fact every stam build has just as much healing and can do just as much damage - just a different kind of damage. A skill should never be nerfed because a set is too strong.
Weren't you comparing snipe to radiant? Not wasting pages on you. Bring your measly dk or nb tanks and we'll measure their utility and potential to execute from 50%.
No, i was comparing multiple snipes in an outnumbered situation against a magplar to multiple RDs on your build. Both can deal with that in 1v1 or small scale, both are pressured in an outnumbered situation. You dont want to admit it, because then the entire premise for your wtb nerf goes out the window. If you could actually address that flaw in your argument, you or others would have in the last few dozen threads. Keep deflecting, you'll get awesomes and be able to wait it out until the next nerf jesus beam thread is created.
You're always pressured outnumbered, it's not the point of the discussion. Point is the function and effect.
You already agreed in some other post about my point in this ticking too quickly. You're unwilling to change a stance really, you just move around from place to place. It's literally a waste for anyone to try to reason. You'd get chewed up verbally though and sound as ignorant and stubborn as you are here.
I consider the instant tick as more a bug, that's not moving around from place to place. Heres the reality:
You and others say the skill needs to be nerfed in outnumbered situations because of its range and the pressure it puts on you.
Didnt read the rest. If youre saying that the only suggestions Im saying they should make to the skill is just a bug - then leave it at that. I dont know why you think the first tick is a 'bug' - its part of the skill, and would go a long way in changing how it plays out in a fight.
Im not talking about outnumbered or 'nerfing' or wherever else the post went. Its a 'nerf' to the skills initial damage, and it should be thrown on the back end of the beam so the damage equalizes but builds as it holds. It adds value to channeling the skill. It also allows people to react to it.
Thats been my suggestion. You dont have to say Im advocating for things I didnt say in this thread. Ill have to figure out if its a bug, then I can report templars for using a known exploit and we can get every templar banned.
2 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I can see your point @FENGRUSH
Your right Maulbeth + Reactive/Kags is a problem as well, but if they actually fix Malabeth you would find these Beam Templars would be far easier to kill then they are right now.
In the end i'd rather they fix the bugged Maulabeth set first, and then see how things play it. I got a feeling those Beam plars become significantly easier to kill when they don;t have these bugged sets propping them up, which is fair trade on the hard hitting but squishy balance.
In the end though, its really sad that such unbalanced sets like Malabeth have bene allowed to be broken for so long. I have seen it bug for some pretty ridiculous heals and that combined with Beam plars is a bit unbalanced, i'll give you that.
Easier, yes. Not easy though. Comparatively speaking still amongst the hardest to kill while providing great support and utility. I like their kit, it's balanced well on all fronts. Their sustain:effectiveness is an issue. Less their heals and more their ability to be a force to so many near or below 50% in such a short time while investing so little in it. Tanky dk, sorc, nb.. will not provide that level of threat and cant. The way this execute functions is different, and that's fine.. but players need time to react. If you can't give some time on the front end, Zos will end up destroying the skills numbers on raw damage.
Best to get on board with a reasonable outlook or the skill gets RIPd.
FFS. Sorc nb and dk even when tanky can still put pressure on people. All of haxus dps play tanky and can put pressure, most of them DK. Those classes may not often pressure YOUR build, but they can pressure other builds. Jesus beam is something i shrug off on my build, things that youd shrug off on yours pressure mine. Why is it so impossible for people to look beyond their own specific vulnerability when evaluating how OP something is?
Malubeth is not just a templar issue, in fact every stam build has just as much healing and can do just as much damage - just a different kind of damage. A skill should never be nerfed because a set is too strong.
Weren't you comparing snipe to radiant? Not wasting pages on you. Bring your measly dk or nb tanks and we'll measure their utility and potential to execute from 50%.
No, i was comparing multiple snipes in an outnumbered situation against a magplar to multiple RDs on your build. Both can deal with that in 1v1 or small scale, both are pressured in an outnumbered situation. You dont want to admit it, because then the entire premise for your wtb nerf goes out the window. If you could actually address that flaw in your argument, you or others would have in the last few dozen threads. Keep deflecting, you'll get awesomes and be able to wait it out until the next nerf jesus beam thread is created.
You're always pressured outnumbered, it's not the point of the discussion. Point is the function and effect.
You already agreed in some other post about my point in this ticking too quickly. You're unwilling to change a stance really, you just move around from place to place. It's literally a waste for anyone to try to reason. You'd get chewed up verbally though and sound as ignorant and stubborn as you are here.
I consider the instant tick as more a bug, that's not moving around from place to place. Heres the reality:
You and others say the skill needs to be nerfed in outnumbered situations because of its range and the pressure it puts on you.
Didnt read the rest. If youre saying that the only suggestions Im saying they should make to the skill is just a bug - then leave it at that. I dont know why you think the first tick is a 'bug' - its part of the skill, and would go a long way in changing how it plays out in a fight.
Im not talking about outnumbered or 'nerfing' or wherever else the post went. Its a 'nerf' to the skills initial damage, and it should be thrown on the back end of the beam so the damage equalizes but builds as it holds. It adds value to channeling the skill. It also allows people to react to it.
Thats been my suggestion. You dont have to say Im advocating for things I didnt say in this thread. Ill have to figure out if its a bug, then I can report templars for using a known exploit and we can get every templar banned.
Of course you didnt read the rest, its the part you cant respond to. Maybe you too have changed your mind, but ive seen you frequently complaining about the other aspects of the skill, even recently. In fact, you were one of the loudest voiced in previous threads pushing for nerfs.
Sometimes the skill hits before its even been animated, and as with other skills that do that, its a bug and should be fixed. The skill should have a 'travel time' as the beam should originate from the templar, but that travel time should be far quicker than our slow as hell projectile skills.4 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also, has anyone seen any videos of Templar using nothing but the Jesus Beam in a full run of vMA?? OMG that would be awesome.1 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love how every one of these RD nerf threads is the same damned soap opera but I get sucked into reading them every time.
FFS you guys, this skill is really strong but some of you just blow it way out of proportion. L2 block or slot a cleanse. Or, if you still have problems, slot Venom Arrow or Crushing Shock. Problem solved.
We all know the reason for all the QQ is that it counters your monkey rolling. There needs to be a hard counter to monkey rolling, and this is a great one.
Except where we're magicka players. 0.0 u wot m8?
Magicka builds shouldn't struggle with this skill in general except when highly outnumbered, in which case it's no more a threat than any other skill. See the 5v1 examples @Zheg gave.
Come on @KenaPKK, you are a good player and a Nightblade. I doubt RD is much of an actual threat to you in normal situations.6 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I can see your point @FENGRUSH
Your right Maulbeth + Reactive/Kags is a problem as well, but if they actually fix Malabeth you would find these Beam Templars would be far easier to kill then they are right now.
In the end i'd rather they fix the bugged Maulabeth set first, and then see how things play it. I got a feeling those Beam plars become significantly easier to kill when they don;t have these bugged sets propping them up, which is fair trade on the hard hitting but squishy balance.
In the end though, its really sad that such unbalanced sets like Malabeth have bene allowed to be broken for so long. I have seen it bug for some pretty ridiculous heals and that combined with Beam plars is a bit unbalanced, i'll give you that.
Easier, yes. Not easy though. Comparatively speaking still amongst the hardest to kill while providing great support and utility. I like their kit, it's balanced well on all fronts. Their sustain:effectiveness is an issue. Less their heals and more their ability to be a force to so many near or below 50% in such a short time while investing so little in it. Tanky dk, sorc, nb.. will not provide that level of threat and cant. The way this execute functions is different, and that's fine.. but players need time to react. If you can't give some time on the front end, Zos will end up destroying the skills numbers on raw damage.
Best to get on board with a reasonable outlook or the skill gets RIPd.
FFS. Sorc nb and dk even when tanky can still put pressure on people. All of haxus dps play tanky and can put pressure, most of them DK. Those classes may not often pressure YOUR build, but they can pressure other builds. Jesus beam is something i shrug off on my build, things that youd shrug off on yours pressure mine. Why is it so impossible for people to look beyond their own specific vulnerability when evaluating how OP something is?
Malubeth is not just a templar issue, in fact every stam build has just as much healing and can do just as much damage - just a different kind of damage. A skill should never be nerfed because a set is too strong.
Weren't you comparing snipe to radiant? Not wasting pages on you. Bring your measly dk or nb tanks and we'll measure their utility and potential to execute from 50%.
No, i was comparing multiple snipes in an outnumbered situation against a magplar to multiple RDs on your build. Both can deal with that in 1v1 or small scale, both are pressured in an outnumbered situation. You dont want to admit it, because then the entire premise for your wtb nerf goes out the window. If you could actually address that flaw in your argument, you or others would have in the last few dozen threads. Keep deflecting, you'll get awesomes and be able to wait it out until the next nerf jesus beam thread is created.
You're always pressured outnumbered, it's not the point of the discussion. Point is the function and effect.
You already agreed in some other post about my point in this ticking too quickly. You're unwilling to change a stance really, you just move around from place to place. It's literally a waste for anyone to try to reason. You'd get chewed up verbally though and sound as ignorant and stubborn as you are here.
I consider the instant tick as more a bug, that's not moving around from place to place. Heres the reality:
You and others say the skill needs to be nerfed in outnumbered situations because of its range and the pressure it puts on you.
Didnt read the rest. If youre saying that the only suggestions Im saying they should make to the skill is just a bug - then leave it at that. I dont know why you think the first tick is a 'bug' - its part of the skill, and would go a long way in changing how it plays out in a fight.
Im not talking about outnumbered or 'nerfing' or wherever else the post went. Its a 'nerf' to the skills initial damage, and it should be thrown on the back end of the beam so the damage equalizes but builds as it holds. It adds value to channeling the skill. It also allows people to react to it.
Thats been my suggestion. You dont have to say Im advocating for things I didnt say in this thread. Ill have to figure out if its a bug, then I can report templars for using a known exploit and we can get every templar banned.
Of course you didnt read the rest, its the part you cant respond to. Maybe you too have changed your mind, but ive seen you frequently complaining about the other aspects of the skill, even recently. In fact, you were one of the loudest voiced in previous threads pushing for nerfs.
Sometimes the skill hits before its even been animated, and as with other skills that do that, its a bug and should be fixed. The skill should have a 'travel time' as the beam should originate from the templar, but that travel time should be far quicker than our slow as hell projectile skills.
Lol dont worry - the battle is over. The skill youve endlessly defended is just simply bugged, and all of its advocates forgot to mention it.
Time to bring the rest of the templars on board with it.0 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can we wait for a Maulbeth fix before adding several new pages to this thread? Because when the near-invulnerability of a lot of these RD turrets is removed I think we might see the skill more reasonably.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP4
