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Lets Balance Radiant Destruction
-
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is a good reason why one person in this thread has been on my forum ignore list for about half a year now.
Save yourself some grief.3 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.6 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD'sEdited by Nifty2g on July 11, 2016 5:16PM#MOREORBS2 -
Munavar✭✭✭In a TeamSpeak far far away ...
DC #1: “Man, Jesus beam is OP’d! It needs to be nerfed!”
DC #2: “Why is that? Did a potato use it on you at full health and kill you, noob?”
DC #1: “Oh, course not. With that potato; I stood there and laughed. Then I proceeded to break into his ‘house’ and smacked him around for a bit before putting him out of his misery.”
DC #2: “Hmm, did his friend join in? You know those beamlars travel in packs.”
DC #1: “Come on, you know I am better than that. A pair of them only makes double the fun.”
DC #2: “So, what’s the problem?”
DC #1: “Well, I had these 3 guys chasing me around the tree. You know that’s always fun and good for a laugh. Then out of no where a 4th joined in and blew me up with his beam.”
DC #2: “Ha, it only took four people! Wait until the others hear that story!”
DC #1: “But … but ... if that ability had a shorter range, I would of SO left my tree and gap closed on him!”
DC #2: “OK, sure. You lost a 1v4 …”
Dae - TM8 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
I cant believe im telling nifty this, but its possible you should do some research as well. Im well aware of what a gcd is, it is how everyone in eso refers to it. I have NEVER seen someone in eso refer to them synonomously - typically internal cd's refer to things like SPC buffs not able to be applied again until after a certain duration. GCDs refer to animations and how soon you can recast - these can be animation cancelled, ICDs cannot. Youre welcome to google, i just did to confirm. With that said, ill clarify, the game does not have ICDs on skills, it has ICDs on item sets and GCDs on skills. You may be using different definitions, but thats on you.
icd is something that has nothing to do with the animation, and with how you were using the term seemed very similar to a flat CD where you would not be able to recast jesus beam immediately after your first one was cast. In a game where you can spam and animstion cancel things that are far more nefarious, i maintain that would be a terrible suggestion to a skill. Youre welcome to clarify what you meant, but again, your definitions were off.
As an aside, since you mention competitive pve, if i spent a week doing maw and starting calling for nerfs to things youd be one of the first to call into question how long id spent doing competitive pve. In fact, we could probably quote you doing that exact thing to others. Take a step back and look at how enraged you got when people referenced your time in pvp.Edited by Zheg on July 11, 2016 5:42PM5 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Try again, and going to the WoW wiki isn't exactly the best source to go to as majority of that doesn't apply to ESO. ESO's combat is largely different to what that is explained. You might want to do some personal testings.
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
I cant believe im telling nifty this, but its possible you should do some research as well. Im well aware of what a gcd is, it is how everyone in eso refers to it. I have NEVER seen someone in eso refer to them synonomously - typically internal cd's refer to things like SPC buffs not able to be applied again until after a certain duration. GCDs refer to animations and how soon you can recast - these can be animation cancelled, ICDs cannot. Youre welcome to google, i just did to confirm. With that said, ill clarify, the game does not have ICDs on skills, it has ICDs on item sets and GCDs on skills. You may be using different definitions, but thats on you.
icd is something that has nothing to do with the animation and with how you were using the term seemed very similar to a flat CD where you would not be able to recast jesus beam immediately after your first one was cast. Ij a game where you can spam and animstion cancel things that are far more nefarious, i maintain that would be a terrible suggestion to a skill. Youre welcome to clarify what you meant, but again, your definitions were off.
Animation canceling isn't related to cooldowns so to speak, you're just canceling the animation, no matter how perfect you animation cancel, you can't bypass a cooldown on an ability, you're still going to have to wait before you can cast it again.Edited by Nifty2g on July 11, 2016 5:43PM#MOREORBS2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I guess I just don't understand why "changing your mind" or "evolving your opinion" has consistently been ridiculed in this thread. Last time I checked, it's okay to hear others out and over time grow closer towards a consensus with your oppponent. It's okay to think one thing, and have someone convince you that there's an alternative way of looking at it, changing the way you view it. That's called productive conversation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with evolving your opinion over time. This is a sign of MATURITY. This is a sign of respect for those who disagree with you, and a sign of intelligence. It's okay to open your mind and admit that others have valuable knowledge and points of view in this game. We should all atleast listen to and entertain opinions that counter our own, because often times they have a great deal of validity.
Ps: People quote and reference Blab because he is an experienced Templar. But he is also a respectful and rational human being. He will engage in conversation or debate with anyone. And he would never try to discredit or insult someone's intelligence like is often the case with these conversations.
Again jules, when you say people have hate boners for you and call those disagreeing with you 'forumplars', you do not get to take the high road and pretend like you are not guilty of the same things youre casting on others.
Being convinced of an argument is one thing. Much of what ive seen people doing is a different thing.
Im sorry, but when i saw there was a problem with bombard i know exactly what i had a problem with. I may be swayed on the ways to address it, but i know the problem is permaroot. The nerfplars do not seem to know what their problem with the skill is. If its the range, then it should be the range and you debate ways of addressing it. If its the damage, you debate ways to bring it in line. If its the execute range, you debate ways to make that happen. If its not being dodgeable, you debate ways to make that happen. People are not changing their minds on the best way to address what they think is broken about the skill, the nerfplars are changing their minds on whats broken about it. If changing your mind on THAT is so easy, then it suggests you never actually felt all that strongly about it to begin with and were just fishing for nerfs. That doesnt speak of maturity, though it was a nice attempt to cover it as such.
You are literally not capable of having a conversation without insulting people. How do you live your life this way?6 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Try again, and going to the WoW wiki isn't exactly the best source to go to as majority of that doesn't apply to ESO.
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
I cant believe im telling nifty this, but its possible you should do some research as well. Im well aware of what a gcd is, it is how everyone in eso refers to it. I have NEVER seen someone in eso refer to them synonomously - typically internal cd's refer to things like SPC buffs not able to be applied again until after a certain duration. GCDs refer to animations and how soon you can recast - these can be animation cancelled, ICDs cannot. Youre welcome to google, i just did to confirm. With that said, ill clarify, the game does not have ICDs on skills, it has ICDs on item sets and GCDs on skills. You may be using different definitions, but thats on you.
icd is something that has nothing to do with the animation and with how you were using the term seemed very similar to a flat CD where you would not be able to recast jesus beam immediately after your first one was cast. Ij a game where you can spam and animstion cancel things that are far more nefarious, i maintain that would be a terrible suggestion to a skill. Youre welcome to clarify what you meant, but again, your definitions were off.
Animation canceling isn't related to cooldowns so to speak, you're just canceling the animation, no matter how perfect you animation cancel, you can't bypass a cooldown on an ability, you're still going to have to wait before you can cast it again.
Wow is the pinnacle and source of most modern mmo terminology, including your different cooldown lingo. Ultima would be the only other exception because it was first. Thats a pretty solid place to confirm terminology, and there are other places that back it up that are not wow specific.
Id also disagree with what you just said. If i cast funnel health back to back, the time it takes to get the second one to fire is far less if the first is animation cancelled because you are not waiting for the full animation of the first.1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Citing WoW terminology to how skills work isn't going to be the best example because ESO has a totally different combat system, safe to say they have reinvented a unique combat system which is faster paced. Sure, they invented mmo terminology but that's got nothing to do with what I said to you, you're backing up your understanding from the WoW Wiki instead of doing your own testings.
Try again, and going to the WoW wiki isn't exactly the best source to go to as majority of that doesn't apply to ESO.
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
I cant believe im telling nifty this, but its possible you should do some research as well. Im well aware of what a gcd is, it is how everyone in eso refers to it. I have NEVER seen someone in eso refer to them synonomously - typically internal cd's refer to things like SPC buffs not able to be applied again until after a certain duration. GCDs refer to animations and how soon you can recast - these can be animation cancelled, ICDs cannot. Youre welcome to google, i just did to confirm. With that said, ill clarify, the game does not have ICDs on skills, it has ICDs on item sets and GCDs on skills. You may be using different definitions, but thats on you.
icd is something that has nothing to do with the animation and with how you were using the term seemed very similar to a flat CD where you would not be able to recast jesus beam immediately after your first one was cast. Ij a game where you can spam and animstion cancel things that are far more nefarious, i maintain that would be a terrible suggestion to a skill. Youre welcome to clarify what you meant, but again, your definitions were off.
Animation canceling isn't related to cooldowns so to speak, you're just canceling the animation, no matter how perfect you animation cancel, you can't bypass a cooldown on an ability, you're still going to have to wait before you can cast it again.
Wow is the pinnacle and source of most modern mmo terminology, including your different cooldown lingo. Ultima would be the only other exception because it was first. Thats a pretty solid place to confirm terminology, and there are other places that back it up that are not wow specific.
Id also disagree with what you just said. If i cast funnel health back to back, the time it takes to get the second one to fire is far less if the first is animation cancelled because you are not waiting for the full animation of the first.
You can disagree all you like but it just shows you don't understand. Refer back to the Rapid Regeneration video I posted to enlighten yourself, until you can do that with Funnel Health, there is a cooldown on it. Animations are really just for the art and to look cool, canceling the animation really has nothing to do with cooldowns, cooldowns are mostly backend programming. Not going to be able to bypass that unless you get a third party program or the developers break it.
I didn't mention it before but Spell Power Cure probably wasn't the best choice of an example because it can reproc on itself, you should have just posted this
Are you starting to understand my idea a little better now as to why it should be added?Edited by Nifty2g on July 11, 2016 6:01PM#MOREORBS1 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
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Try again, and going to the WoW wiki isn't exactly the best source to go to as majority of that doesn't apply to ESO.
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
I cant believe im telling nifty this, but its possible you should do some research as well. Im well aware of what a gcd is, it is how everyone in eso refers to it. I have NEVER seen someone in eso refer to them synonomously - typically internal cd's refer to things like SPC buffs not able to be applied again until after a certain duration. GCDs refer to animations and how soon you can recast - these can be animation cancelled, ICDs cannot. Youre welcome to google, i just did to confirm. With that said, ill clarify, the game does not have ICDs on skills, it has ICDs on item sets and GCDs on skills. You may be using different definitions, but thats on you.
icd is something that has nothing to do with the animation and with how you were using the term seemed very similar to a flat CD where you would not be able to recast jesus beam immediately after your first one was cast. Ij a game where you can spam and animstion cancel things that are far more nefarious, i maintain that would be a terrible suggestion to a skill. Youre welcome to clarify what you meant, but again, your definitions were off.
Animation canceling isn't related to cooldowns so to speak, you're just canceling the animation, no matter how perfect you animation cancel, you can't bypass a cooldown on an ability, you're still going to have to wait before you can cast it again.
Id also disagree with what you just said. If i cast funnel health back to back, the time it takes to get the second one to fire is far less if the first is animation cancelled because you are not waiting for the full animation of the first.
I'm in /popcorn mode since the discussion is over...Amusing how you transition from "Hurrr Kena can't close this thread!" directly into the petty bickering which I said would be all that would follow my last post.
...but I am baited. I must step in to point out that this line is absolutely 100% irrefutably not true. The global cooldown for instant cast abilities is 1 second. You have enough time in that 1s to cast funnel with a medium attack weave and still have a hair of time left over to take a step without animation cancelling anything.
*walks away to refill popcorn bowl*Edited by KenaPKK on July 11, 2016 6:03PM0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I guess I just don't understand why "changing your mind" or "evolving your opinion" has consistently been ridiculed in this thread. Last time I checked, it's okay to hear others out and over time grow closer towards a consensus with your oppponent. It's okay to think one thing, and have someone convince you that there's an alternative way of looking at it, changing the way you view it. That's called productive conversation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with evolving your opinion over time. This is a sign of MATURITY. This is a sign of respect for those who disagree with you, and a sign of intelligence. It's okay to open your mind and admit that others have valuable knowledge and points of view in this game. We should all atleast listen to and entertain opinions that counter our own, because often times they have a great deal of validity.
Ps: People quote and reference Blab because he is an experienced Templar. But he is also a respectful and rational human being. He will engage in conversation or debate with anyone. And he would never try to discredit or insult someone's intelligence like is often the case with these conversations.
Again jules, when you say people have hate boners for you and call those disagreeing with you 'forumplars', you do not get to take the high road and pretend like you are not guilty of the same things youre casting on others.
Being convinced of an argument is one thing. Much of what ive seen people doing is a different thing.
Im sorry, but when i saw there was a problem with bombard i know exactly what i had a problem with. I may be swayed on the ways to address it, but i know the problem is permaroot. The nerfplars do not seem to know what their problem with the skill is. If its the range, then it should be the range and you debate ways of addressing it. If its the damage, you debate ways to bring it in line. If its the execute range, you debate ways to make that happen. If its not being dodgeable, you debate ways to make that happen. People are not changing their minds on the best way to address what they think is broken about the skill, the nerfplars are changing their minds on whats broken about it. If changing your mind on THAT is so easy, then it suggests you never actually felt all that strongly about it to begin with and were just fishing for nerfs. That doesnt speak of maturity, though it was a nice attempt to cover it as such.
You are literally not capable of having a conversation without insulting people. How do you live your life this way?
Just fine thank you, and i have many convos without insulting people. Youve had some of the most toxic conversations on the forums to date, so i dont find it appropriate for you to point the finger at anyone. I can be pugnacious, but i at least admit it and dont pretend like ive never been guilty of the very thing you kept trying to make plugs at. Its one thing to encourage people to keep things civil, its another altogether to cast shade on someone for doing what youve done so often in the past. I dont find that productive to discussion either, do you?Edited by Zheg on July 11, 2016 6:06PM4 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can we have a nerf bombard thread now?Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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Try again, and going to the WoW wiki isn't exactly the best source to go to as majority of that doesn't apply to ESO.
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
I cant believe im telling nifty this, but its possible you should do some research as well. Im well aware of what a gcd is, it is how everyone in eso refers to it. I have NEVER seen someone in eso refer to them synonomously - typically internal cd's refer to things like SPC buffs not able to be applied again until after a certain duration. GCDs refer to animations and how soon you can recast - these can be animation cancelled, ICDs cannot. Youre welcome to google, i just did to confirm. With that said, ill clarify, the game does not have ICDs on skills, it has ICDs on item sets and GCDs on skills. You may be using different definitions, but thats on you.
icd is something that has nothing to do with the animation and with how you were using the term seemed very similar to a flat CD where you would not be able to recast jesus beam immediately after your first one was cast. Ij a game where you can spam and animstion cancel things that are far more nefarious, i maintain that would be a terrible suggestion to a skill. Youre welcome to clarify what you meant, but again, your definitions were off.
Animation canceling isn't related to cooldowns so to speak, you're just canceling the animation, no matter how perfect you animation cancel, you can't bypass a cooldown on an ability, you're still going to have to wait before you can cast it again.
Id also disagree with what you just said. If i cast funnel health back to back, the time it takes to get the second one to fire is far less if the first is animation cancelled because you are not waiting for the full animation of the first.
I'm in /popcorn mode since the discussion is over...Amusing how you transition from "Hurrr Kena can't close this thread!" directly into the petty bickering which I said would be all that would follow my last post.
...but I am baited. I must step in to point out that this line is absolutely 100% irrefutably not true. The global cooldown for instant cast abilities is 1 second. You have enough time in that 1s to cast funnel with a medium attack weave and still have a hair of time left over to take a step without animation cancelling anything.
*walks away to refill popcorn bowl*
Except for skills with long animations. Try animation cancelling an HtD and then immediately casting again afterwards. Though i will admit funnel health was a poor example, nb animations are some of the cleanest in the game.Edited by Zheg on July 11, 2016 6:16PM1 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think I've been killed by RD only once since DB patch on my MagSorc. And yes, I do see ppl who spam the skill, just like every other skill in this game is spammed. To get this worked up over RD is crazy when we literally have ppl who can heal to full while on their azz with broken Maulbeth proc, Reactive armor shenanigans, out of control snares, etc.
There is counterplay here. I am more scared of a Dark Flare spammer than an RD spammer, which is to say not at all. DF has counterplay, RD has counterplay. FFS why should you not have to earn your 1vX?PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP5 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »I think I've been killed by RD only once since DB patch on my MagSorc. And yes, I do see ppl who spam the skill, just like every other skill in this game is spammed. To get this worked up over RD is crazy when we literally have ppl who can heal to full while on their azz with broken Maulbeth proc, Reactive armor shenanigans, out of control snares, etc.
There is counterplay here. I am more scared of a Dark Flare spammer than an RD spammer, which is to say not at all. DF has counterplay, RD has counterplay. FFS why should you not have to earn your 1vX?
Because RD is a counter to the current 1vX meta. That's why everyone here hates it.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost7 -
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There is a lot of things in MoL that need to be adjusted, doesn't really have anything to do with game time, if you step foot in there you should be able to see straight up what needs to be adjusted. Personally I'm not a fan of overlapping one shot mechanics for increased difficulty.
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
As an aside, since you mention competitive pve, if i spent a week doing maw and starting calling for nerfs to things youd be one of the first to call into question how long id spent doing competitive pve. In fact, we could probably quote you doing that exact thing to others. Take a step back and look at how enraged you got when people referenced your time in pvp.
I'd argue with you on your points you have to make if I don't agree with them, but I'm not going to be arrogant and disregard all you have to say because of your game time. Like I said, we all deserve opinions.
#MOREORBS2 -
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✭✭✭✭It was brought up as a factor nifty, not the end all be all. Your suggestion was also evaluated. And yes, you very likely would have done the same on a pve suggestion you disagreed with. Maybe ill be surprised, but im pretty sure we could quote you doing the same thing. Youve had serioudly heated pve comments before.Edited by Zheg on July 11, 2016 6:33PM1 -
sluice✭✭✭✭This thread is still ongoing? Isn't everything that has to be said on the subject, already has?
PSN: sluiceqc (NA-PS4) CP: 551+
I strictly play on Daggerfall Covenant for when it comes to PvPDaggerfall Covenant
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Aldmeri Dominion (PvE only)
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sluice - Imperial Dragonknight (0..50) R.I.P.
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Can't-Heal-Stupid - Argonian Templar (0..50)
#VMATOKENSYSTEM #TRAITCHANGE
(vMA) drop table and probability2 -
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I don't think I've said to someone before their opinion doesn't matter because they PvP. But I'll stand corrected if you can find that.It was brought up as a factor nifty, not the end all be all. Your suggestion was also evaluated. And yes, you very likely would have done the same on a pve suggestion you disagreed with. Maybe ill be surprised, but im pretty sure we could quote you doing the same thing. Youve had serioudly heated pve comments before.
Though I've most likely said l2p or something to people as a joke
I was just stating that in PvE it focuses a lot on rotations, at least end game does. When a cooldown is introduced it is highly noticeable. PvP I'd argue doesn't contain that amount of rotations because you have far too much to focus on than maximizing your DPS output. Which is why I said you should try it out to see what I am talking about with cooldowns and why this change doesn't effect PvE and why it would help PvP. Maybe now after a little bit of explaining you might agree with me to some extent that this change to balance RD is on the right path, might not be the perfect one but I personally thinking adjusting it's cooldown is the right way to balance it. Because the issue I am seeing a lot and experiencing is multiple beams at once becoming too overwhelming to the player.
I'd argue that the old way was good with RD that only 1 beam will get the damage the other beams wont, it used to be like this back in the day, until they changed it recently. Which is another reason why beam is so powerful right now in Cyrodill. But that hurt PvE a little too much. Then again, not too many templars do dps, so I'm not sure I personally liked that feature to it.Edited by Nifty2g on July 11, 2016 6:41PM#MOREORBS1 -
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Citing WoW terminology to how skills work isn't going to be the best example because ESO has a totally different combat system, safe to say they have reinvented a unique combat system which is faster paced. Sure, they invented mmo terminology but that's got nothing to do with what I said to you, you're backing up your understanding from the WoW Wiki instead of doing your own testings.
Try again, and going to the WoW wiki isn't exactly the best source to go to as majority of that doesn't apply to ESO.
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
I cant believe im telling nifty this, but its possible you should do some research as well. Im well aware of what a gcd is, it is how everyone in eso refers to it. I have NEVER seen someone in eso refer to them synonomously - typically internal cd's refer to things like SPC buffs not able to be applied again until after a certain duration. GCDs refer to animations and how soon you can recast - these can be animation cancelled, ICDs cannot. Youre welcome to google, i just did to confirm. With that said, ill clarify, the game does not have ICDs on skills, it has ICDs on item sets and GCDs on skills. You may be using different definitions, but thats on you.
icd is something that has nothing to do with the animation and with how you were using the term seemed very similar to a flat CD where you would not be able to recast jesus beam immediately after your first one was cast. Ij a game where you can spam and animstion cancel things that are far more nefarious, i maintain that would be a terrible suggestion to a skill. Youre welcome to clarify what you meant, but again, your definitions were off.
Animation canceling isn't related to cooldowns so to speak, you're just canceling the animation, no matter how perfect you animation cancel, you can't bypass a cooldown on an ability, you're still going to have to wait before you can cast it again.
Wow is the pinnacle and source of most modern mmo terminology, including your different cooldown lingo. Ultima would be the only other exception because it was first. Thats a pretty solid place to confirm terminology, and there are other places that back it up that are not wow specific.
Id also disagree with what you just said. If i cast funnel health back to back, the time it takes to get the second one to fire is far less if the first is animation cancelled because you are not waiting for the full animation of the first.
You can disagree all you like but it just shows you don't understand. Refer back to the Rapid Regeneration video I posted to enlighten yourself, until you can do that with Funnel Health, there is a cooldown on it. Animations are really just for the art and to look cool, canceling the animation really has nothing to do with cooldowns, cooldowns are mostly backend programming. Not going to be able to bypass that unless you get a third party program or the developers break it.
I didn't mention it before but Spell Power Cure probably wasn't the best choice of an example because it can reproc on itself, you should have just posted this
Are you starting to understand my idea a little better now as to why it should be added?
We'll agree to disagree on the semantics. Your original suggestion sounded like a full CD given how we have different definitions for internal cds. On gcd's, i would still say that if every skill has a 1 second gcd outside of animation times, increasing it for ONE skill (as to your clarified suggestion) when there are others that are spammed far more frequently and to greater effect still demonstrates the unprecedented hatred this skill inspires. That still makes me think of the word ridiculous, because no other skill causes this much animosity, even bombard, and that should say everything that needs to be said.
As i said to kena, funnel health was a poor example because the animation is quick and fluid. Not so with breath/htd, before the breath nerfs i tested hps with animation cancelled breath spam against non cancelled. You got more healing. I have a feeling blazing spear would be another potential candidate because of the clunky animation, same for dark flare animation cancelling - though these arent ones ive tested.1 -
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No not every single skill has an cooldown of 1 second, they're all fundamentally different in their code and how the work, which is why you're experiencing different results, funnel was a fine test to do something against that has a different cooldown time.
Citing WoW terminology to how skills work isn't going to be the best example because ESO has a totally different combat system, safe to say they have reinvented a unique combat system which is faster paced. Sure, they invented mmo terminology but that's got nothing to do with what I said to you, you're backing up your understanding from the WoW Wiki instead of doing your own testings.
Try again, and going to the WoW wiki isn't exactly the best source to go to as majority of that doesn't apply to ESO.
Hold up, there is a justification, read the original post. And I'll throw in a treat as to why it's needed
And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Do you not know the definition of personal? Yes, your suggestion is both hilarious and ridiculous. There is zero justification to add an internal cooldown to only one skill in an entire combat system built on the premise that there shouldnt be internal cool downs. The fact that only that one skill is deserving of such treatment should punctuate how ridiculous the blind and hysterical hatred of the skill has become. There are skills far more worthy of an ICD in the spam heavy combat system we have, and if such an action were to be taken it would need to be done to multiple skills for consistency, and more likely the entire combat system would need to be overhauled to accomodate your nerf.
You may not want to hear that, and you may not like having it pointed out, but that is the reality.
Only one ability in the entire combat system? Seems you have no idea what exactly an ICD is, you should do some research on it, and try out some competitive PvE, it's where you learn a lot about the combat system in terms of cooldowns because it shows a lot in a rotation.
A quick example of a broken ICD/GCDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYncSkFo8U
You can spam skills as much as you want without having to stop for any period of time, every skill has it, so I don't understand why you're saying there is none and the game is built upon not having them, there are also multiple skills with longer cooldowns on them and they normally get changed around a lot in the backend without you or anyone knowing, stuff like that normally doesn't make it's way to the patch notes.
I'm saying to increase the time that RD has on it's cooldown to reduce spam at one time, seems reasonable.
I'm also tempted to show you this post, Light Attacking and animations had their ICD's increased/altered
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269046/light-attacking-is-broken-and-animation-priority/p1
So please, tell me more how the game has no ICD's
I cant believe im telling nifty this, but its possible you should do some research as well. Im well aware of what a gcd is, it is how everyone in eso refers to it. I have NEVER seen someone in eso refer to them synonomously - typically internal cd's refer to things like SPC buffs not able to be applied again until after a certain duration. GCDs refer to animations and how soon you can recast - these can be animation cancelled, ICDs cannot. Youre welcome to google, i just did to confirm. With that said, ill clarify, the game does not have ICDs on skills, it has ICDs on item sets and GCDs on skills. You may be using different definitions, but thats on you.
icd is something that has nothing to do with the animation and with how you were using the term seemed very similar to a flat CD where you would not be able to recast jesus beam immediately after your first one was cast. Ij a game where you can spam and animstion cancel things that are far more nefarious, i maintain that would be a terrible suggestion to a skill. Youre welcome to clarify what you meant, but again, your definitions were off.
Animation canceling isn't related to cooldowns so to speak, you're just canceling the animation, no matter how perfect you animation cancel, you can't bypass a cooldown on an ability, you're still going to have to wait before you can cast it again.
Wow is the pinnacle and source of most modern mmo terminology, including your different cooldown lingo. Ultima would be the only other exception because it was first. Thats a pretty solid place to confirm terminology, and there are other places that back it up that are not wow specific.
Id also disagree with what you just said. If i cast funnel health back to back, the time it takes to get the second one to fire is far less if the first is animation cancelled because you are not waiting for the full animation of the first.
You can disagree all you like but it just shows you don't understand. Refer back to the Rapid Regeneration video I posted to enlighten yourself, until you can do that with Funnel Health, there is a cooldown on it. Animations are really just for the art and to look cool, canceling the animation really has nothing to do with cooldowns, cooldowns are mostly backend programming. Not going to be able to bypass that unless you get a third party program or the developers break it.
I didn't mention it before but Spell Power Cure probably wasn't the best choice of an example because it can reproc on itself, you should have just posted this
Are you starting to understand my idea a little better now as to why it should be added?
We'll agree to disagree on the semantics. Your original suggestion sounded like a full CD given how we have different definitions for internal cds. On gcd's, i would still say that if every skill has a 1 second gcd outside of animation times, increasing it for ONE skill (as to your clarified suggestion) when there are others that are spammed far more frequently and to greater effect still demonstrates the unprecedented hatred this skill inspires. That still makes me think of the word ridiculous, because no other skill causes this much animosity, even bombard, and that should say everything that needs to be said.
As i said to kena, funnel health was a poor example because the animation is quick and fluid. Not so with breath/htd, before the breath nerfs i tested hps with animation cancelled breath spam against non cancelled. You got more healing. I have a feeling blazing spear would be another potential candidate because of the clunky animation, same for dark flare animation cancelling - though these arent ones ive tested.
Animation canceling works best on non channeled and non double click abilities, you can't really do it on dark flare unless you are in melee range to hit them with a sword or a staff to light attack cancel it. You can't animation cancel beam, when you try to block and recast it, that's the current cooldown kicking in, I believe the cooldown on RD currently is .3seconds, though increasing it anywhere between .5-1 second will be niceEdited by Nifty2g on July 11, 2016 7:12PM#MOREORBS1 -
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I don't think I've said to someone before their opinion doesn't matter because they PvP. But I'll stand corrected if you can find that.It was brought up as a factor nifty, not the end all be all. Your suggestion was also evaluated. And yes, you very likely would have done the same on a pve suggestion you disagreed with. Maybe ill be surprised, but im pretty sure we could quote you doing the same thing. Youve had serioudly heated pve comments before.
Though I've most likely said l2p or something to people as a joke
I was just stating that in PvE it focuses a lot on rotations, at least end game does. When a cooldown is introduced it is highly noticeable. PvP I'd argue doesn't contain that amount of rotations because you have far too much to focus on than maximizing your DPS output. Which is why I said you should try it out to see what I am talking about with cooldowns and why this change doesn't effect PvE and why it would help PvP. Maybe now after a little bit of explaining you might agree with me to some extent that this change to balance RD is on the right path, might not be the perfect one but I personally thinking adjusting it's cooldown is the right way to balance it. Because the issue I am seeing a lot and experiencing is multiple beams at once becoming too overwhelming to the player.
I'd argue that the old way was good with RD that only 1 beam will get the damage the other beams wont, it used to be like this back in the day, until they changed it recently. Which is another reason why beam is so powerful right now in Cyrodill. But that hurt PvE a little too much. Then again, not too many templars do dps, so I'm not sure I personally liked that feature to it.
If snipe, wb, SA/WB, etc. All allowed you to only take damage from one source, then we can talk about going back to that bugged version of jesus beam.
I do not see how having multiple beams on you and it resulting in significant pressure or death means the skill is too strong. It means you were FF'd or outnumbered. And therein lie almost all of my points made over the past few months. There is near unanimous consensus that the skill is balanced in 1v1 and small scale, people struggle when outnumbered. I struggle against jesus beam very little compared to other things when im outnumbered, but my build is not heavily stressed by jesus beam. If i have to struggle against multiple snipe spam when im outnumbered, why the hell should other people not have to struggle against what makes their build vulnerable? Snipe has a range a templar cant even meet. And again, this only applies to outnumbered situations. The infatuation with nerfing the skill under that premise is bananas.4 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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I think it was only the execute damage of beam that didn't apply to multiple, my bad forgot to add that part in.
I don't think I've said to someone before their opinion doesn't matter because they PvP. But I'll stand corrected if you can find that.It was brought up as a factor nifty, not the end all be all. Your suggestion was also evaluated. And yes, you very likely would have done the same on a pve suggestion you disagreed with. Maybe ill be surprised, but im pretty sure we could quote you doing the same thing. Youve had serioudly heated pve comments before.
Though I've most likely said l2p or something to people as a joke
I was just stating that in PvE it focuses a lot on rotations, at least end game does. When a cooldown is introduced it is highly noticeable. PvP I'd argue doesn't contain that amount of rotations because you have far too much to focus on than maximizing your DPS output. Which is why I said you should try it out to see what I am talking about with cooldowns and why this change doesn't effect PvE and why it would help PvP. Maybe now after a little bit of explaining you might agree with me to some extent that this change to balance RD is on the right path, might not be the perfect one but I personally thinking adjusting it's cooldown is the right way to balance it. Because the issue I am seeing a lot and experiencing is multiple beams at once becoming too overwhelming to the player.
I'd argue that the old way was good with RD that only 1 beam will get the damage the other beams wont, it used to be like this back in the day, until they changed it recently. Which is another reason why beam is so powerful right now in Cyrodill. But that hurt PvE a little too much. Then again, not too many templars do dps, so I'm not sure I personally liked that feature to it.
If snipe, wb, SA/WB, etc. All allowed you to only take damage from one source, then we can talk about going back to that bugged version of jesus beam.
I do not see how having multiple beams on you and it resulting in significant pressure or death means the skill is too strong. It means you were FF'd or outnumbered. And therein lie almost all of my points made over the past few months. There is near unanimous consensus that the skill is balanced in 1v1 and small scale, people struggle when outnumbered. I struggle against jesus beam very little compared to other things when im outnumbered, but my build is not heavily stressed by jesus beam. If i have to struggle against multiple snipe spam when im outnumbered, why the hell should other people not have to struggle against what makes their build vulnerable? Snipe has a range a templar cant even meet. And again, this only applies to outnumbered situations. The infatuation with nerfing the skill under that premise is bananas.
Which is why I'll just talk about your first sentence I bolded. The skill just completely ramps up in damage as a target gets lower health, having 3 or more on you is just going to eventually result in death, doesn't really have a counter to it as right now with the cooldown it doesn't offer a lot of breathing room. Now I know I disagreed in the past but I never really tried it out and seen what it's like to do it. It's pretty toxic gameplay really. And yes I know there are more skills like this, but I don't really have any experience in those to come up with a justified change to them.
It's not as if increasing the cooldown is going to break the skill and make it useless, but those with beam on them will have a much more counter to it and actually allow them to LoS in time when they need to and properly counter it like everyone says just LoS or bash it, you'll actually have the time to do so without being overwhelmed with multiple at a time. I mean there will still be people saying nerf the overall damage and what not, but I think it'll have better counters with this change.#MOREORBS0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »I think I've been killed by RD only once since DB patch on my MagSorc. And yes, I do see ppl who spam the skill, just like every other skill in this game is spammed. To get this worked up over RD is crazy when we literally have ppl who can heal to full while on their azz with broken Maulbeth proc, Reactive armor shenanigans, out of control snares, etc.
There is counterplay here. I am more scared of a Dark Flare spammer than an RD spammer, which is to say not at all. DF has counterplay, RD has counterplay. FFS why should you not have to earn your 1vX?
Because RD is a counter to the current 1vX meta. That's why everyone here hates it.
1vX meta? Wut? I don't follow.
If you mean the meta of the game is currently 1vX, then....no that can't be what you mean. Lol solo play has been consistently nerfed for over a year and is harder now than ever.
If you mean it counters the meta within 1vX, which is stamplar, then I'll point out that Nifty and I are magicka. He's a magplar making this thread after using and benefiting from beam, and I'm a staff mageblade -- entirely opposite the "1vX meta." Jules is a stamplar, but she also plays lots of other classes. Also I feel that if she wanted to nerf the ability just to benefit her rolly polly stamplar friends, she'd simply argue to make it dodgeable. She spoke to this point earlier. Jules care to weigh in?
Overall I think your comment is misrepresenting us, and you know it.
Edited by KenaPKK on July 11, 2016 7:43PM1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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I think it was only the execute damage of beam that didn't apply to multiple, my bad forgot to add that part in.
I don't think I've said to someone before their opinion doesn't matter because they PvP. But I'll stand corrected if you can find that.It was brought up as a factor nifty, not the end all be all. Your suggestion was also evaluated. And yes, you very likely would have done the same on a pve suggestion you disagreed with. Maybe ill be surprised, but im pretty sure we could quote you doing the same thing. Youve had serioudly heated pve comments before.
Though I've most likely said l2p or something to people as a joke
I was just stating that in PvE it focuses a lot on rotations, at least end game does. When a cooldown is introduced it is highly noticeable. PvP I'd argue doesn't contain that amount of rotations because you have far too much to focus on than maximizing your DPS output. Which is why I said you should try it out to see what I am talking about with cooldowns and why this change doesn't effect PvE and why it would help PvP. Maybe now after a little bit of explaining you might agree with me to some extent that this change to balance RD is on the right path, might not be the perfect one but I personally thinking adjusting it's cooldown is the right way to balance it. Because the issue I am seeing a lot and experiencing is multiple beams at once becoming too overwhelming to the player.
I'd argue that the old way was good with RD that only 1 beam will get the damage the other beams wont, it used to be like this back in the day, until they changed it recently. Which is another reason why beam is so powerful right now in Cyrodill. But that hurt PvE a little too much. Then again, not too many templars do dps, so I'm not sure I personally liked that feature to it.
If snipe, wb, SA/WB, etc. All allowed you to only take damage from one source, then we can talk about going back to that bugged version of jesus beam.
I do not see how having multiple beams on you and it resulting in significant pressure or death means the skill is too strong. It means you were FF'd or outnumbered. And therein lie almost all of my points made over the past few months. There is near unanimous consensus that the skill is balanced in 1v1 and small scale, people struggle when outnumbered. I struggle against jesus beam very little compared to other things when im outnumbered, but my build is not heavily stressed by jesus beam. If i have to struggle against multiple snipe spam when im outnumbered, why the hell should other people not have to struggle against what makes their build vulnerable? Snipe has a range a templar cant even meet. And again, this only applies to outnumbered situations. The infatuation with nerfing the skill under that premise is bananas.
Which is why I'll just talk about your first sentence I bolded. The skill just completely ramps up in damage as a target gets lower health, having 3 or more on you is just going to eventually result in death, doesn't really have a counter to it as right now with the cooldown it doesn't offer a lot of breathing room. Now I know I disagreed in the past but I never really tried it out and seen what it's like to do it. It's pretty toxic gameplay really. And yes I know there are more skills like this, but I don't really have any experience in those to come up with a justified change to them.
It's not as if increasing the cooldown is going to break the skill and make it useless, but those with beam on them will have a much more counter to it and actually allow them to LoS in time when they need to and properly counter it like everyone says just LoS or bash it, you'll actually have the time to do so without being overwhelmed with multiple at a time. I mean there will still be people saying nerf the overall damage and what not, but I think it'll have better counters with this change.
My build has far few counters to snipe spam. You say the problem is that dmg ramps up? 4 people sniping you, twice so we're in the 2 second phase where you say it ramps up, you die more often than not on a magplar. Maybe you time a dodge roll really well, you can do that about as often as a stamplar can purify those 4 beams. 4 jesus beams? I can survive that and likely die to snipes. Stam build can easily survive the snipes but dies to jesus. These are not widly different situations, snipe is just one example skill and i see it just as much if not more than jesus beam. Now compare the furor over nerfing jesus beam vs nerfing snipe. One of these things is not like the other.
For reference, during a laggy fight this weekend one person sniped me twice and i died to some other random skill that finished me off. Thst death was FAR quicker than what youd see from a typical jesus beam TTK from one person, at longer range, heal debuffs, and applies poisons. And yet we are on the 35th + nerf jesus beam thread. Maybe now you see why find this whole nerf thread circus so ridiculous.3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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You say your build has few counters to snipe spam but RD doesn't bother you, then what about the dragonknight that has no issues with snipe but has issues with RD? This is just a biased argument
I think it was only the execute damage of beam that didn't apply to multiple, my bad forgot to add that part in.
I don't think I've said to someone before their opinion doesn't matter because they PvP. But I'll stand corrected if you can find that.It was brought up as a factor nifty, not the end all be all. Your suggestion was also evaluated. And yes, you very likely would have done the same on a pve suggestion you disagreed with. Maybe ill be surprised, but im pretty sure we could quote you doing the same thing. Youve had serioudly heated pve comments before.
Though I've most likely said l2p or something to people as a joke
I was just stating that in PvE it focuses a lot on rotations, at least end game does. When a cooldown is introduced it is highly noticeable. PvP I'd argue doesn't contain that amount of rotations because you have far too much to focus on than maximizing your DPS output. Which is why I said you should try it out to see what I am talking about with cooldowns and why this change doesn't effect PvE and why it would help PvP. Maybe now after a little bit of explaining you might agree with me to some extent that this change to balance RD is on the right path, might not be the perfect one but I personally thinking adjusting it's cooldown is the right way to balance it. Because the issue I am seeing a lot and experiencing is multiple beams at once becoming too overwhelming to the player.
I'd argue that the old way was good with RD that only 1 beam will get the damage the other beams wont, it used to be like this back in the day, until they changed it recently. Which is another reason why beam is so powerful right now in Cyrodill. But that hurt PvE a little too much. Then again, not too many templars do dps, so I'm not sure I personally liked that feature to it.
If snipe, wb, SA/WB, etc. All allowed you to only take damage from one source, then we can talk about going back to that bugged version of jesus beam.
I do not see how having multiple beams on you and it resulting in significant pressure or death means the skill is too strong. It means you were FF'd or outnumbered. And therein lie almost all of my points made over the past few months. There is near unanimous consensus that the skill is balanced in 1v1 and small scale, people struggle when outnumbered. I struggle against jesus beam very little compared to other things when im outnumbered, but my build is not heavily stressed by jesus beam. If i have to struggle against multiple snipe spam when im outnumbered, why the hell should other people not have to struggle against what makes their build vulnerable? Snipe has a range a templar cant even meet. And again, this only applies to outnumbered situations. The infatuation with nerfing the skill under that premise is bananas.
Which is why I'll just talk about your first sentence I bolded. The skill just completely ramps up in damage as a target gets lower health, having 3 or more on you is just going to eventually result in death, doesn't really have a counter to it as right now with the cooldown it doesn't offer a lot of breathing room. Now I know I disagreed in the past but I never really tried it out and seen what it's like to do it. It's pretty toxic gameplay really. And yes I know there are more skills like this, but I don't really have any experience in those to come up with a justified change to them.
It's not as if increasing the cooldown is going to break the skill and make it useless, but those with beam on them will have a much more counter to it and actually allow them to LoS in time when they need to and properly counter it like everyone says just LoS or bash it, you'll actually have the time to do so without being overwhelmed with multiple at a time. I mean there will still be people saying nerf the overall damage and what not, but I think it'll have better counters with this change.
My build has far few counters to snipe spam. You say the problem is that dmg ramps up? 4 people sniping you, twice so we're in the 2 second phase where you say it ramps up, you die more often than not on a magplar. Maybe you time a dodge roll really well, you can do that about as often as a stamplar can purify those 4 beams. 4 jesus beams? I can survive that and likely die to snipes. Stam build can easily survive the snipes but dies to jesus. These are not widly different situations, snipe is just one example skill and i see it just as much if not more than jesus beam. Now compare the furor over nerfing jesus beam vs nerfing snipe. One of these things is not like the other.
For reference, during a laggy fight this weekend one person sniped me twice and i died to some other random skill that finished me off. Thst death was FAR quicker than what youd see from a typical jesus beam TTK from one person, at longer range, heal debuffs, and applies poisons. And yet we are on the 35th + nerf jesus beam thread. Maybe now you see why find this whole nerf thread circus so ridiculous.
You see, I'm not talking about scenarios, I'm talking about overall.
#MOREORBS1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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You say your build has few counters to snipe spam but RD doesn't bother you, then what about the dragonknight that has no issues with snipe but has issues with RD? This is just a biased argument
I think it was only the execute damage of beam that didn't apply to multiple, my bad forgot to add that part in.
I don't think I've said to someone before their opinion doesn't matter because they PvP. But I'll stand corrected if you can find that.It was brought up as a factor nifty, not the end all be all. Your suggestion was also evaluated. And yes, you very likely would have done the same on a pve suggestion you disagreed with. Maybe ill be surprised, but im pretty sure we could quote you doing the same thing. Youve had serioudly heated pve comments before.
Though I've most likely said l2p or something to people as a joke
I was just stating that in PvE it focuses a lot on rotations, at least end game does. When a cooldown is introduced it is highly noticeable. PvP I'd argue doesn't contain that amount of rotations because you have far too much to focus on than maximizing your DPS output. Which is why I said you should try it out to see what I am talking about with cooldowns and why this change doesn't effect PvE and why it would help PvP. Maybe now after a little bit of explaining you might agree with me to some extent that this change to balance RD is on the right path, might not be the perfect one but I personally thinking adjusting it's cooldown is the right way to balance it. Because the issue I am seeing a lot and experiencing is multiple beams at once becoming too overwhelming to the player.
I'd argue that the old way was good with RD that only 1 beam will get the damage the other beams wont, it used to be like this back in the day, until they changed it recently. Which is another reason why beam is so powerful right now in Cyrodill. But that hurt PvE a little too much. Then again, not too many templars do dps, so I'm not sure I personally liked that feature to it.
If snipe, wb, SA/WB, etc. All allowed you to only take damage from one source, then we can talk about going back to that bugged version of jesus beam.
I do not see how having multiple beams on you and it resulting in significant pressure or death means the skill is too strong. It means you were FF'd or outnumbered. And therein lie almost all of my points made over the past few months. There is near unanimous consensus that the skill is balanced in 1v1 and small scale, people struggle when outnumbered. I struggle against jesus beam very little compared to other things when im outnumbered, but my build is not heavily stressed by jesus beam. If i have to struggle against multiple snipe spam when im outnumbered, why the hell should other people not have to struggle against what makes their build vulnerable? Snipe has a range a templar cant even meet. And again, this only applies to outnumbered situations. The infatuation with nerfing the skill under that premise is bananas.
Which is why I'll just talk about your first sentence I bolded. The skill just completely ramps up in damage as a target gets lower health, having 3 or more on you is just going to eventually result in death, doesn't really have a counter to it as right now with the cooldown it doesn't offer a lot of breathing room. Now I know I disagreed in the past but I never really tried it out and seen what it's like to do it. It's pretty toxic gameplay really. And yes I know there are more skills like this, but I don't really have any experience in those to come up with a justified change to them.
It's not as if increasing the cooldown is going to break the skill and make it useless, but those with beam on them will have a much more counter to it and actually allow them to LoS in time when they need to and properly counter it like everyone says just LoS or bash it, you'll actually have the time to do so without being overwhelmed with multiple at a time. I mean there will still be people saying nerf the overall damage and what not, but I think it'll have better counters with this change.
My build has far few counters to snipe spam. You say the problem is that dmg ramps up? 4 people sniping you, twice so we're in the 2 second phase where you say it ramps up, you die more often than not on a magplar. Maybe you time a dodge roll really well, you can do that about as often as a stamplar can purify those 4 beams. 4 jesus beams? I can survive that and likely die to snipes. Stam build can easily survive the snipes but dies to jesus. These are not widly different situations, snipe is just one example skill and i see it just as much if not more than jesus beam. Now compare the furor over nerfing jesus beam vs nerfing snipe. One of these things is not like the other.
For reference, during a laggy fight this weekend one person sniped me twice and i died to some other random skill that finished me off. Thst death was FAR quicker than what youd see from a typical jesus beam TTK from one person, at longer range, heal debuffs, and applies poisons. And yet we are on the 35th + nerf jesus beam thread. Maybe now you see why find this whole nerf thread circus so ridiculous.
You see, I'm not talking about scenarios, I'm talking about overall.
Ah HAH. There we have it. The difference is that i accept my build is weak to snipe spam - particularly multiple people. I embrace that as rock/paper/scissor and the decision to have lower stats or cover more bases and have additional counters to snipe.
Im not asking for snipe to be nerfed. The DK? Not so much. There arent dozens of threads asking for snipe to be nerfed. Im talking about overall as well - the exact same situations people say jesus beam needs to be nerfed apply to snipe and other skills in outnumbered situations. No one ever wants that pointed out though. Im not going to die to someone spamming snipe on me, if im outnumbered though, and multiple people are doing it? I die just as much as these 1vX try-hards do to jesus beam.Edited by Zheg on July 11, 2016 7:48PM2 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol no.
You accept your snipe weakness, and I accept my glaring weakness to DK wings. It's a painfully hard counter to 100% reflectable funnel builds, yet I've never complained about those..
This and other RD threads have never been about RD versus specific builds. If RD were this good against specific builds that aren't equipped to deal with it but mediocre against prepared builds, then that'd be great. Part of the issue we have with RD is that most builds don't have a ready counter to it when it's used from far off or while others attack the target, and that RD doesn't actually function much less effectively against nightblades and Templars who break the beam. Those counters are irrelevant for the use cases that we described because the Templar can just reapply the beam. In practical play, it's still unbroken.2
