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Champion point "catchup mechanic"
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Niastissa✭✭✭
I edited my post. I played from beta to the day they put CP system. And this time I did everything.I'm at 307. Take one year hatius after reach VR14. I have to grind like as a brainless to get CP, I would like to do the dailies but it take ages to reach a single CP.The higher the cap goes, the less XP is required to get the lower CPs. That is the catch-up mechanic.
For example, instead of 200.000 XP to get a CP, it will be at 199.990 ? WOW DAT catch-up mechanic.
200,000 XP is nothing. Do quests. Kill mobs as you go. Be efficient with your time. Pick up all the quests in a zone and then do them all and turn them all in at once. You'll save time and get more experience faster then if you go do one quest, go back turn it in and do another.
Go into random unexplored caves and clear them. Sometimes they even have hidden quests inside and some good materials and loot.
You went in every zone and cleared every cave, delve, dungeon. You did all the group dungeons? You did every single quest?Edited by Niastissa on July 8, 2016 1:00PM0 -
Crowzer✭✭✭I used to be a hardcore gamer at this time, so yes I clean everything.
But it was before CP system.Edited by Crowzer on July 8, 2016 1:20PM0 -
So what I'm seeing here is this:
If you have 501, you seem to think the system is fine.
If you don't, the system is problematic.
I only have 140 or 150 or something, and I don't really like the system.
I also don't understand people talking about getting 1 a day. I mean, maybe enlightenment grows the longer you're offline and I have 2 years worth of enlightenment or something (I played up to vet 10 on one and vet 3 on another toon when the game first came out). But yeah, a point a day? Like, I look at some of the people in this thread and think, wow, must be nice to have so much free time you can do all of that every day... But at the same time, no, even just playing an hour or two in the evening after work I can do better than that.
My problem is that, look, I understand it should take time to get to max level (and twist it all you want, CP is another leveling mechanic, and seeing as you can't do all the games available content until you are WELL into your CP, it acts as a barrier just as effectively), but the amount of time it takes to get to max level in this game is absurd. I've played a lot of MMOs over the years, and a few of them took a long ass time to level, but ESO beats them all, not by days, not by weeks, but by MONTHS. 1 to 50 is a little fast for the average MMO (if 50 were the level cap, which once again, it truly isn't), but CP 1 to 501 is easily twice as long as even the grindiest MMOs.
I left the game the first time because I thought the veteran grind was absurd. If I leave again, it will probably be because I left with characters well into their vet ranks, and coming back to that it STILL will take me MONTHS to reach max level. I'm sorry guys, especially if you're employed and have stuff to do... it's just too long.
Final note: I do enjoy this game, but I still firmly believe the insane grind to max "level" is really just a poor dev solution to avoiding issues with endgame content. You never get bored at max level because the average player will simply never achieve it. That's... not good.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm at 307. Take one year hatius after reach VR14, back on game a week after DB release.
And after did all DLC stories, quests, maps, POI, etc... I have to grind like as a brainless to get CP, I would like to do the dailies but it take ages to reach a single CP.
For example, instead of 200.000 XP to get a CP, the required XP will be at 199.990 ? WOW DAT catch-up mechanic.The higher the cap goes, the less XP is required to get the lower CPs. That is the catch-up mechanic.
Remember that the XP requirement goes up as you have more CP. I need about 820k XP right now to earn a Champion Point (because there's still an XP penalty when you are above cap).
So just playing normally (doing a few quests and running dungeons, with some PvP thrown in), I get a CP every 2-3 days.
Meanwhile, the person who needs 200k XP will earn 4 CP for the same amount of XP. So they are indeed catching up.The Moot Councillor2 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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Well actually instead of 200,000 it'll be 191,000, but yes. It all adds up though; this change in the cap means that new players will require 6 million less XP to reach the old cap level of 501.I'm at 307. Take one year hatius after reach VR14, back on game a week after DB release.
And after did all DLC stories, quests, maps, POI, etc... I have to grind like as a brainless to get CP, I would like to do the dailies but it take ages to reach a single CP.
For example, instead of 200.000 XP to get a CP, the required XP will be at 199.990 ? WOW DAT catch-up mechanic.The higher the cap goes, the less XP is required to get the lower CPs. That is the catch-up mechanic.Edited by Enodoc on July 8, 2016 1:54PMUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
Niastissa✭✭✭
Well actually instead of 200,000 it'll be 191,000, but yes. It all adds up though; this change in the cap means that new players will require 6 million less XP to reach the old cap level of 501.I'm at 307. Take one year hatius after reach VR14, back on game a week after DB release.
And after did all DLC stories, quests, maps, POI, etc... I have to grind like as a brainless to get CP, I would like to do the dailies but it take ages to reach a single CP.
For example, instead of 200.000 XP to get a CP, the required XP will be at 199.990 ? WOW DAT catch-up mechanic.The higher the cap goes, the less XP is required to get the lower CPs. That is the catch-up mechanic.
Plus after a year offline the enlightened amount would have been huge. I had something like 4.5 million points of experience that where enlightened when I came back.0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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Not as much as you think. Yes, Enlightenment caps at 4,800,000 XP, but that's after only twelve days, at 400,000 per day.
Plus after a year offline the enlightened amount would have been huge. I had something like 4.5 million points of experience that where enlightened when I came back.
Well actually instead of 200,000 it'll be 191,000, but yes. It all adds up though; this change in the cap means that new players will require 6 million less XP to reach the old cap level of 501.I'm at 307. Take one year hatius after reach VR14, back on game a week after DB release.
And after did all DLC stories, quests, maps, POI, etc... I have to grind like as a brainless to get CP, I would like to do the dailies but it take ages to reach a single CP.
For example, instead of 200.000 XP to get a CP, the required XP will be at 199.990 ? WOW DAT catch-up mechanic.The higher the cap goes, the less XP is required to get the lower CPs. That is the catch-up mechanic.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
Thevorpal1✭✭✭I played this game on pc and converted to ps4 just a few months into the initial cp addition and got to about 100 cp before I quit playing on the pc version.
I'm now cp 495 on the ps4 version. Just playing and not even every day. Pretty casually actually.
I think the catch mechanic is fine and the current time it takes to get to max cp is fine as well.
I could of hit max cp a long time ago if my intent was to hit cp501. It's not. I'm all about the journey, the destination is just a byproduct.
Just my opinion.Edited by Thevorpal1 on July 8, 2016 2:03PM0 -
Niastissa✭✭✭
Interesting.
Not as much as you think. Yes, Enlightenment caps at 4,800,000 XP, but that's after only twelve days, at 400,000 per day.
Plus after a year offline the enlightened amount would have been huge. I had something like 4.5 million points of experience that where enlightened when I came back.
Well actually instead of 200,000 it'll be 191,000, but yes. It all adds up though; this change in the cap means that new players will require 6 million less XP to reach the old cap level of 501.I'm at 307. Take one year hatius after reach VR14, back on game a week after DB release.
And after did all DLC stories, quests, maps, POI, etc... I have to grind like as a brainless to get CP, I would like to do the dailies but it take ages to reach a single CP.
For example, instead of 200.000 XP to get a CP, the required XP will be at 199.990 ? WOW DAT catch-up mechanic.The higher the cap goes, the less XP is required to get the lower CPs. That is the catch-up mechanic.
The nice thing is it seems like I still get the 400,000 enlightenment every day even if I do play the day.
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
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Interesting.
Not as much as you think. Yes, Enlightenment caps at 4,800,000 XP, but that's after only twelve days, at 400,000 per day.
Plus after a year offline the enlightened amount would have been huge. I had something like 4.5 million points of experience that where enlightened when I came back.
Well actually instead of 200,000 it'll be 191,000, but yes. It all adds up though; this change in the cap means that new players will require 6 million less XP to reach the old cap level of 501.I'm at 307. Take one year hatius after reach VR14, back on game a week after DB release.
And after did all DLC stories, quests, maps, POI, etc... I have to grind like as a brainless to get CP, I would like to do the dailies but it take ages to reach a single CP.
For example, instead of 200.000 XP to get a CP, the required XP will be at 199.990 ? WOW DAT catch-up mechanic.The higher the cap goes, the less XP is required to get the lower CPs. That is the catch-up mechanic.
The nice thing is it seems like I still get the 400,000 enlightenment every day even if I do play the day.
Yes. You get 400k worth of enlightenment every day (up to a max of 12 days) whether you log in or not.
The Moot Councillor1 -
Kalifas✭✭✭
This game does have alot of grind. I know f2p mmos that are less grindy than this. But this don't hold a candle to FFXI. If you were a casual 1-2 hours a day it would take you a whole year to reach the max level in vanilla FFXI.mattgproctorb14_ESO wrote: »So what I'm seeing here is this:
If you have 501, you seem to think the system is fine.
If you don't, the system is problematic.
I only have 140 or 150 or something, and I don't really like the system.
I also don't understand people talking about getting 1 a day. I mean, maybe enlightenment grows the longer you're offline and I have 2 years worth of enlightenment or something (I played up to vet 10 on one and vet 3 on another toon when the game first came out). But yeah, a point a day? Like, I look at some of the people in this thread and think, wow, must be nice to have so much free time you can do all of that every day... But at the same time, no, even just playing an hour or two in the evening after work I can do better than that.
My problem is that, look, I understand it should take time to get to max level (and twist it all you want, CP is another leveling mechanic, and seeing as you can't do all the games available content until you are WELL into your CP, it acts as a barrier just as effectively), but the amount of time it takes to get to max level in this game is absurd. I've played a lot of MMOs over the years, and a few of them took a long ass time to level, but ESO beats them all, not by days, not by weeks, but by MONTHS. 1 to 50 is a little fast for the average MMO (if 50 were the level cap, which once again, it truly isn't), but CP 1 to 501 is easily twice as long as even the grindiest MMOs.
I left the game the first time because I thought the veteran grind was absurd. If I leave again, it will probably be because I left with characters well into their vet ranks, and coming back to that it STILL will take me MONTHS to reach max level. I'm sorry guys, especially if you're employed and have stuff to do... it's just too long.
Final note: I do enjoy this game, but I still firmly believe the insane grind to max "level" is really just a poor dev solution to avoiding issues with endgame content. You never get bored at max level because the average player will simply never achieve it. That's... not good.
The barrier thing is true and the purpose of CP shouldn't be a barrier, otherwise just raise the normal level cap. It's like they removed the veteran levels but in reality they didn't. The original purpose of champion points in my opinion was to give players a perpetual customization system. ZoS realized that most players are casual and capped it.
Now it is a shadow of it's former self and raising the gear cap or character cap in 20-30 increments is no longer perpetual customization but a barrier for players to play together which goes against the very foundation of what Tamriel One is trying to accomplish.
It's also a barrier in that no matter what the enlightenment is, newer players will never catch veteran players. Just imagine when a player starts two years from now and the cap is say at 700-800 or more. The incremental capping also acts like an ilevel. When the cap raises incrementally in quarterly spans, players feel this constant pressure of recycling gear over and over with minimal stat upgrades. If the cap never raises no one feels progression is worthy. If the character Champion Point cap ever gets to 3600 , no one just starting will want to face that obstacle even if enlightenment was 1000% boosted.
A Champion System like below would give incentives to players who play way more. And the casual would only be behind 501CP at most for all time but with super enlightenment in between cap increases and a gear cap that moves with the character CP cap. Grinding 501 champion points every 6-9 months would not be a big deal.One thing that their formula doesn't take into account is that regardless of what each CP cost, an extreme casual or someone just coming into the game will not want to or will not grind a big amount of XP to be able to participate in endgame. There is a belief that all the good stuff comes at endgame. What happens when the cap at some point raises to 3000 and a player first joins the game? It's the same thing levels do, if you're not the same level you can't play together.
Capping veteran players who play alot is enough to keep things fair. Penalizing them for playing the game more is not the right thing to do. Penalizing a newer player for just starting or playing the game less is not right. So how do you avoid both being penalized and still allow a veteran player who plays alot to keep progressing?
Allow consistent players to keep progressing as much as they want towards the Total Cap of 3600.
Every CP raise boost whoever is under the previous cap to the previous cap total.
That way Mr.Casual or newbie is never below 501 CP regardless of the complete CP total of 3600.
And Mr.Veteran Hardcore is wherever he is based on his playtime, 600, 1356, 2200, 3600, but due to a cap he never is super powerful in content compared to Mr.Casual or newbie.
Everyone gets to play together as long as both players are competent in mechanics.
Raising the gear cap in 20-30 CP increments every 3 months or longer will never keep the drive alive for a hardcore veteran to stick around. He has is his foot on the gas going 300-501 MPH and you are limiting the car to 160 MPH. 20-30 CP increments will also be hard on a casual to midcore because the gear cap is a moving goalpost that most players including the hardcore veterans feel like they cannot feel progression long enough. The casual might think they like the 160 MPH limit but that is only because he knows he cannot invest the exuberant amounts of time a veteran hardcore can. As soon as that gear cycle starts changing every quarter or so I guarantee you will see complaints in the forums. Sixth months to Nine months is a pretty good amount of time for gear to stay relevant but not feel like no new higher progression is coming.
Oh look, here comes the worries now.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/276344/future-gear-and-future-cp
Gear cap is always what the previous character CP cap ended at.SO when the 2ND Character CP raise of 1002 happens the Gear CP cap will be 501 CP. So everyone can access all content.
1ST Cap= Is currently 160, can't go back on this one
2ND Cap= 501 CP
3RD Cap= 1002 CP
4TH Cap= 1503 CP
5Th Cap= 2004 CP
6Th Cap= 2505 CP
7Th Cap= 3006 CP
Final Cap= 3600 CP
First cap is 501 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%
2ND Cap is 1002 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 501 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%
3RD Cap is 1503 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 1002 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%
4TH Cap is 2004 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 1503 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%
5TH Cap is 2505 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 2004 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%
6TH Cap is 3006 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 2505 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%
7TH Cap is 3600 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 3006 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%
That is 42 Months or 3 years and 6 months of leveling. If you think of that like levels, and each CP cap only took as long as leveling 1-50, something required to access endgame and progress. That is like leveling a class to Level 420. Who would want to level a class to Level 420 to access elder content? Unless the experience gains were phenomenal, not many. CP shouldn't feel like a chore or countless levels. It should just come naturally and swift as a side note to the actual content.An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!0 -
Potenza✭✭✭✭✭I disagree with the caps altogether. Why should we have people catch up?
Whats the point in earning cp's - you might as well just hand everyone their cps and make everyone even so everyone is the same.
A player whos been playing longer and earned more points than another should always be more powerful over them.
Just get rid of the cp system altogether and make everyone a level 50. That's what is happening anyway.0 -
Kalifas✭✭✭
The reason a catch-up mechanic was made in the first place is they want all players playing normal and veteran content together.j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »I disagree with the caps altogether. Why should we have people catch up?
Whats the point in earning cp's - you might as well just hand everyone their cps and make everyone even so everyone is the same.
A player whos been playing longer and earned more points than another should always be more powerful over them.
Just get rid of the cp system altogether and make everyone a level 50. That's what is happening anyway.
I think a player who has played longer should have more progression than a newer player. But as far as power goes, time should have no bearing on power. Power should be decided by the difficult obstacles overcome. And skill should be whatever the player is proficient at. If two players have 3600 CP, one player beats content 90% of playerbase has a hard time beating and the other can't beat that same content, his power shouldn't be equal to the other person.
We are level 50 now. The current champion point implementation is imposing we are level 50 + whatever your champion point is. When all players are level 50 + the same champion points with a perfect passive system meaning risk/reward, where you can't be the master of all trades but a master of one or two trades. Then skill becomes the factor and not I played 3000 hours killing the most difficult things or the easiest things. Which leads me to think some champion points should be special and awarded for specifically doing certain things.An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!0 -
Niastissa✭✭✭I'd be willing to let them release the CP cap even though I am only at 144 right now. I figure as long as the points take longer to get I'll catch up to a point where I am viable in PVP against most people. The ones that out pace me deserve to keep going.
Lets not give out happy faces to everyone so no one has their feelings hurt. Make it fair and reasonable but no coddling.0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭mattgproctorb14_ESO wrote: »So what I'm seeing here is this:
If you have 501, you seem to think the system is fine.
If you don't, the system is problematic.
I only have 140 or 150 or something, and I don't really like the system.
I also don't understand people talking about getting 1 a day. I mean, maybe enlightenment grows the longer you're offline and I have 2 years worth of enlightenment or something (I played up to vet 10 on one and vet 3 on another toon when the game first came out). But yeah, a point a day? Like, I look at some of the people in this thread and think, wow, must be nice to have so much free time you can do all of that every day... But at the same time, no, even just playing an hour or two in the evening after work I can do better than that.
My problem is that, look, I understand it should take time to get to max level (and twist it all you want, CP is another leveling mechanic, and seeing as you can't do all the games available content until you are WELL into your CP, it acts as a barrier just as effectively), but the amount of time it takes to get to max level in this game is absurd. I've played a lot of MMOs over the years, and a few of them took a long ass time to level, but ESO beats them all, not by days, not by weeks, but by MONTHS. 1 to 50 is a little fast for the average MMO (if 50 were the level cap, which once again, it truly isn't), but CP 1 to 501 is easily twice as long as even the grindiest MMOs.
I left the game the first time because I thought the veteran grind was absurd. If I leave again, it will probably be because I left with characters well into their vet ranks, and coming back to that it STILL will take me MONTHS to reach max level. I'm sorry guys, especially if you're employed and have stuff to do... it's just too long.
Final note: I do enjoy this game, but I still firmly believe the insane grind to max "level" is really just a poor dev solution to avoiding issues with endgame content. You never get bored at max level because the average player will simply never achieve it. That's... not good.
Enlightenment builds up at a rate of 400,000 a day until a maximum of 12 days worth is stored up. Then you stop acquiring enlightenment.
So. If you say, took a break from the game for awhile, you'd have that 12 days of enlightenment stored up, That'd get you around 20 or so champion levels. Then you're at 400k of enlightenment a day which is between 1 and 2 CP a day depending on how many CP you have. For me at about 300 CP, it's about 1.5 CP a day. Once your enlightenment is consumed, it's actually a waste to continue questing because you'll get to a point where you run out of quests except repeatables in Cyrodiil and the DLC areas. Having multiple characters at 50+ can alleviate it because even if you've burned through all the quest content you'll be able to go through your enlightenment every day with dailies on multiple characters.
If you only have 1-2 characters at 50 though, then your options for continuing sources of xp after finishing all the content become few enough to not even have 400k worth of xp a day. It's worse for people who don't have DLC, because they don't have the Tip board/Marked for death repeatables. Their options are Cyrodiil, and Craglorn. Craglorn is a ghost town last I saw but the quests are tuned for group content, Cyrodiil is a PVP zone which a lot of people won't want to participate in.
So if you've been playing since launch and never stopped playing and made sure to consume your enligthenment every day and had multiple VR16's. Okay, maybe you're at 501, because you've taken a year or so to get there.
But now those people are demanding an increase to the cap, and for people who either took breaks, or more recently started playing. You're looking at a very large wall of xp that'll take a year to chew through already, and people use it as a barrier for getting groups, and it can make PVP not even worth playing because you're at such a mechanical disadvantage.
So my point is.. either the cap needs to stay as it is or make very small incremental increases like they're doing to let people take that year or so to chew through the wall of xp. Or, better catchup mechanics to reduce that year of time it takes to catchup to a matter of a few months instead.
Raising the cap substantially and leaving the catchup mechanics as they are.. won't work.0