Is Gap Closing a Keep cheating?

Elohmrow · July 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Confirmed grappling hooks best addition to game yet

lmaoooo

raviour · July 2016

No

with no grappling hooks or ladders its cool imo, if u r getting a friend to let u in its obv cheating

Kas · July 2016

No

Imagine a new player. Imagine him never having read the forums. Imagine him seeing his gap closer not greyed out.
Of course he'd press that button!

This may be a broken part of the game, but this is not how cheating or even exploiting usually happens. It's just natural to try. In the case of ambush and dk leap, it even looks like it's intended and allowed (ofc forum users may have read that ZOS doesn't intend this to work, but those who don't read here, don't necessarily know it)

Hibbou · July 2016

Yes

70 DKs voted x)

biminirwb17_ESO · July 2016

Yes

People should read the ToS they agreed to, using an exploit is specifically mentioned entering a keep without siege is an exploit. Using an exploit may lead to a suspension of an account.

Strictly by the ToS anyone who sees this happening must report it to ZoS. I just collect screenshots

RedisSennegath · July 2016

No

Have fun while it lasts.
If ZoS really doesn't intend for it to happen they are going to fix it anyway and probably the more complaints they get from wall PEEEM J-Beam, snipe and cristal frag spammers the faster they are going to fix it. (Or at least hot-fixing it)
While it's not a intended game mechanic it's not something that absolutely breaks the game. If you can't handle a few people crit rushing into your keep you probably have bigger issues than just gapclosers being broken.

Swampfox1954 wrote: »

That's probably too much to hope for as some don't give a stuff about the campaign just AP

While it might be suprising to you some people don't give a f about either of those they just want to have some fun fights and getting inside a keep usualy offers a nice fight while the whole * Insert faction zerg* stays outside.

zuto40 · July 2016

No

nightblades should have always been allowed, theyre assassins with a literal teleport why shouldnt they be getting into keeps and causing chaos?

alkodav · July 2016

No

sieg is really boring..

seems that it's a part of game mechanics, not cheats

bitaken · July 2016

Yes

It's an exploit - which is cheating - but since everyone is doing it - everyone figures it's safe to do since they can't ban everyone.

right?

If this was an exploit to get uber loots from bosses - it would have been patched the first time someone spoke of it anywhere.

visionality · July 2016

No

It's totally valid as long as you do it in a realistic way - e.g. a DK taking flight or a NB ambushing with an enemy through a door.

It is an exploit when physics are broken - e.g. a templar passing through the grate with toppling charge.

It's poor gameplay when you use friends from other alliances to gap close in.

ToRelax · July 2016

If no walls or gates are down, it's an exploit. But it's not on the level of cheat engine use.

_Chaos · July 2016

No

ZOS knew about this and they implemented it anyways. If you're going to blame anyone, blame them.

Can anyone point me to where it says in-game that this is illegal? Most players don't have forum accounts, so if we're reporting people for exploiting, I'd hope it says somewhere in-game that this isn't allowed.

DocFrost72 · July 2016

Today's patch notes;

"Fixed an issue where charge abilities (Shield Charge, Critical Charge, etc.) were causing-

Waiting with bated breath

-your camera to clip through terrain when charging on certain slopes and hills."

...

Robbmrp · July 2016

Yes

If your fighting at a door and gap close someone running into a keep you can't avoid that. If you are gap closing up to keep walls and outpost decks then yes. That's exploiting a broken mechanic that wasn't intended to work that way. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to justify their use of exploits.

Below is an example of a definition for "Cheat". Based on that, people exploiting Gap Closers to go up levels are clearly doing it to gain an advantage over others. By definition, that is a CHEAT.

cheat
CHēt/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game

treborrealb14_ESO · July 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Personally I love doing it and its very fun wish ZOS keep it in the game.Its very entertaining to gap closer on to a group of defenders right at the same time someone hits them with counter siege and DBOS Them at the same time for a wipe.Its best addition to the game.

I dont know never did this in game But In War hammer when they added the unlock/pass door abilities for Witch Elf and Witch Hunter that was pretty fun..

Milvan · July 2016

No

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

My personal opinion: Depends on how you do it. If you have a friend on the different alliance who helps you get inside I would consider it cheating. If you get inside because the defenders stand in stupid positions and then don't manage it to kill you or knock you off the wall after you jumped them I would say it's fair gameplay.

I would say that the first example is a nasty move, but not really cheating. I agree with the second one.

Robbmrp · July 2016

Yes

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

My personal opinion: Depends on how you do it. If you have a friend on the different alliance who helps you get inside I would consider it cheating. If you get inside because the defenders stand in stupid positions and then don't manage it to kill you or knock you off the wall after you jumped them I would say it's fair gameplay.

@lolo_01b16_ESO How is that "fair gameplay" when they used a cheat exploit to get to the keep wall or outpost deck????? If it was FAIR GAMEPLAY they wouldn't have to use an exploit to get there in the first place....

If the game had siege ladders or towers no one would be complaining about it.

Milvan · July 2016

No

Wollust wrote: »

Adds more fun, I hope it goes into the category "bug -> can't fix -> it's a feature now".

I totally agree with you.

It makes siege more dinamic, more diverse and give us more option other than "set up the siege and shot".
Really guys, the skill is doing whats suppose to be doing: bringing you closer to the target.

lolo_01b16_ESO · July 2016

Robbmrp wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

My personal opinion: Depends on how you do it. If you have a friend on the different alliance who helps you get inside I would consider it cheating. If you get inside because the defenders stand in stupid positions and then don't manage it to kill you or knock you off the wall after you jumped them I would say it's fair gameplay.

@lolo_01b16_ESO How is that "fair gameplay" when they used a cheat exploit to get to the keep wall or outpost deck????? If it was FAIR GAMEPLAY they wouldn't have to use an exploit to get there in the first place....

If the game had siege ladders or towers no one would be complaining about it.

I don't consider leaping onto a wall an exploit. It has been in the game for a very long time and in my opinion adds some nice aspect to pvp, so I consider it a feature. I'd be happy to see more keep layouts that favour different classes / builds as well as being able to chain people off a wall again as I think this would make pvp more fun.
I know there was once a mod who said it's an exploit, but mods have lied to us so many times, so why should I take them serious in this special case.

yodased · July 2016

Yes

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolomens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

Robbmrp · July 2016

Yes

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

My personal opinion: Depends on how you do it. If you have a friend on the different alliance who helps you get inside I would consider it cheating. If you get inside because the defenders stand in stupid positions and then don't manage it to kill you or knock you off the wall after you jumped them I would say it's fair gameplay.

@lolo_01b16_ESO How is that "fair gameplay" when they used a cheat exploit to get to the keep wall or outpost deck????? If it was FAIR GAMEPLAY they wouldn't have to use an exploit to get there in the first place....

If the game had siege ladders or towers no one would be complaining about it.

I don't consider leaping onto a wall an exploit. It has been in the game for a very long time and in my opinion adds some nice aspect to pvp, so I consider it a feature. I'd be happy to see more keep layouts that favour different classes / builds as well as being able to chain people off a wall again as I think this would make pvp more fun.
I know there was once a mod who said it's an exploit, but mods have lied to us so many times, so why should I take them serious in this special case.

From Zenimax themselves, this "bug" has been declared an "exploit". Just because YOU don't consider it one doesn't mean that the game designers and other players agree with you. Anyone using this EXPLOIT to get to areas of keep/outposts the game does NOT INTEND THEM TO is cheating plain and simple. They can use these gap closers all they want at ground level as that's where it's intended to be used. Everyone that uses this to get up into keeps and outposts know full well that it's a cheat mechanic and fully take advantage of that.

By the way, NO ONE would be complaining about people getting to upper levels if there were siege ladders and towers in the game.... Zenimax needs to remove the gap close issue and add in ladders and towers. Then people can legitimately get to these areas and distrupt defenses.

Here's the post from Jessica Folsom that @yodased posted.

yodased wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolomens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

Zouni · July 2016

Yes

It is a cheating tactic. The game was not designed for this type of play. Let the banishmensts begin!!!

Pomaikai · July 2016

Yes

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Confirmed grappling hooks best addition to game yet

Confirmed: A self admitted exploiter and cheater.

Who cares about your Twitch channel now that we know how you achieve what you do?

Pomaikai · July 2016

Yes

Xvorg wrote: »

It is not a cheat, it's an exploit

No, when you knowingly use an exploit for personal gain, then you violate the TOS, and that IS cheating.

FENGRUSH · July 2016

No

Pomaikai wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Confirmed grappling hooks best addition to game yet

Confirmed: A self admitted exploiter and cheater.

Who cares about your Twitch channel now that we know how you achieve what you do?

Twitch predates grappling hooks in ESO - but one can dream. Imagine if they had implemented them since release rather than in DB 2 years later. PvP may have double the pop today.

Also for reference:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163048/grappling-hooks-introduced-when-imperial-city-opens

https://youtube.com/watch?v=fFNc33OUIAM#t=2m52s

Papa_Hunt · July 2016

No "Other" option? I don't even concern myself with whether it is an exploit or not. I don't do it but I don't care if others do it. I just want gap closers to work better on normal terrain. Repeatedly misfiring on a 5% decline is not acceptable.

zuto40 · July 2016

No

Fengrush got you there guys, dont break my immersion by removing my gap closers

magictucktuck · July 2016

No

I believe it was unintended but I dont mind killing people when they come in

Pomaikai · July 2016

Yes

Then ZOS can program that skill or item into the game. Not everything put into prerelease PR makes it into a game. What you don't get to do is exploit a known bug in violation of the TOS to boost your Twitch feed subscriptions for personal and monetary gain.

And yes, if y'all don't understand this, streamers start getting shared ad revenue once they hit enough subscribers, and they also get free games and hardware from companies looking to use them as advertising vehicles.

[snip]

[edit for flame]

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

Wow