forzajuve212 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

By in large, Doges is correct.

However, DK was by far the best design class in terms of ability functions and synergy. For the most part, this is still readily apparent today despite so many changes to core mechanics.

RE: race choices. 7% fire dmg is just too good. Dunmer is the clear choice. Altmer a close second. Breton third. Imperial a close fourth because DK benefits from health and stam, even when magicka specced.

RE: gearing. I have basically tried everything mentioned in this thread. I have played extensively with heavy armor. I think LA is clearly much stronger without the Bracing passive. Five pieces of heavy gets you 200dmg, 8% healing, 10% HP, 5k armor, and ~450 regen. Five pieces of light gives you 20% regen, 15% cost redux, 5k pen, and 10% critical. Not even really close, TBH.

How do you feel in terms of tankabillity in your light armor setup vs your heavy armor? Do you feel like you can survive as much? I'll probably be trying 5 light eventually

DKsUnite wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

I'm gonna get a tava set made. I liked Kags on my imperial. I'm just afraid tava doesn't offer enough damage. I understand it revolves around ulti but all ults cost a good amount

Bats is on like a 20 second timer.

yodased wrote: »

I'm working on something right now which I think is going to be fun

5piece elegant
5 piece vicious death
1 piece molag Kena

Super heavy Attack bomb

Lyar09 wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

I'm gonna get a tava set made. I liked Kags on my imperial. I'm just afraid tava doesn't offer enough damage. I understand it revolves around ulti but all ults cost a good amount

Bats is on like a 20 second timer.

Interesting. I'll give tava a try

Ishammael wrote: »

forzajuve212 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

By in large, Doges is correct.

However, DK was by far the best design class in terms of ability functions and synergy. For the most part, this is still readily apparent today despite so many changes to core mechanics.

RE: race choices. 7% fire dmg is just too good. Dunmer is the clear choice. Altmer a close second. Breton third. Imperial a close fourth because DK benefits from health and stam, even when magicka specced.

RE: gearing. I have basically tried everything mentioned in this thread. I have played extensively with heavy armor. I think LA is clearly much stronger without the Bracing passive. Five pieces of heavy gets you 200dmg, 8% healing, 10% HP, 5k armor, and ~450 regen. Five pieces of light gives you 20% regen, 15% cost redux, 5k pen, and 10% critical. Not even really close, TBH.

How do you feel in terms of tankabillity in your light armor setup vs your heavy armor? Do you feel like you can survive as much? I'll probably be trying 5 light eventually

Survivability is fine. You're blocking.

If you want the numbers, here they are:

5H gets you about 18k or so armor if equipping sword and shield.

Base armor penetration on 2H is 5k (lol).
Major fracture is 5k (spammable debuff for the most part)
30 pts in armor pen is another 2k or so

That's 12k penetration with basically zero effort. Throw in 2H maul, optimized CPs. You HA build is worth 5k armor, tops. This is why DKs block -- for 60% dmg reduction -- because armor is basically worthless.

Now, if you want to make the argument for Constitution stam return, that is probably valid. However, I think the best route is to spec for Battle Roar.

Meaning, light armor Tavas and Blood spawn with Bats.

Ishammael wrote: »

forzajuve212 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

By in large, Doges is correct.

However, DK was by far the best design class in terms of ability functions and synergy. For the most part, this is still readily apparent today despite so many changes to core mechanics.

RE: race choices. 7% fire dmg is just too good. Dunmer is the clear choice. Altmer a close second. Breton third. Imperial a close fourth because DK benefits from health and stam, even when magicka specced.

RE: gearing. I have basically tried everything mentioned in this thread. I have played extensively with heavy armor. I think LA is clearly much stronger without the Bracing passive. Five pieces of heavy gets you 200dmg, 8% healing, 10% HP, 5k armor, and ~450 regen. Five pieces of light gives you 20% regen, 15% cost redux, 5k pen, and 10% critical. Not even really close, TBH.

How do you feel in terms of tankabillity in your light armor setup vs your heavy armor? Do you feel like you can survive as much? I'll probably be trying 5 light eventually

Survivability is fine. You're blocking.

If you want the numbers, here they are:

5H gets you about 18k or so armor if equipping sword and shield.

Base armor penetration on 2H is 5k (lol).
Major fracture is 5k (spammable debuff for the most part)
30 pts in armor pen is another 2k or so

That's 12k penetration with basically zero effort. Throw in 2H maul, optimized CPs. You HA build is worth 5k armor, tops. This is why DKs block -- for 60% dmg reduction -- because armor is basically worthless.

Now, if you want to make the argument for Constitution stam return, that is probably valid. However, I think the best route is to spec for Battle Roar.

Meaning, light armor Tavas and Blood spawn with Bats.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

forzajuve212 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

By in large, Doges is correct.

However, DK was by far the best design class in terms of ability functions and synergy. For the most part, this is still readily apparent today despite so many changes to core mechanics.

RE: race choices. 7% fire dmg is just too good. Dunmer is the clear choice. Altmer a close second. Breton third. Imperial a close fourth because DK benefits from health and stam, even when magicka specced.

RE: gearing. I have basically tried everything mentioned in this thread. I have played extensively with heavy armor. I think LA is clearly much stronger without the Bracing passive. Five pieces of heavy gets you 200dmg, 8% healing, 10% HP, 5k armor, and ~450 regen. Five pieces of light gives you 20% regen, 15% cost redux, 5k pen, and 10% critical. Not even really close, TBH.

How do you feel in terms of tankabillity in your light armor setup vs your heavy armor? Do you feel like you can survive as much? I'll probably be trying 5 light eventually

Survivability is fine. You're blocking.

If you want the numbers, here they are:

5H gets you about 18k or so armor if equipping sword and shield.

Base armor penetration on 2H is 5k (lol).
Major fracture is 5k (spammable debuff for the most part)
30 pts in armor pen is another 2k or so

That's 12k penetration with basically zero effort. Throw in 2H maul, optimized CPs. You HA build is worth 5k armor, tops. This is why DKs block -- for 60% dmg reduction -- because armor is basically worthless.

Now, if you want to make the argument for Constitution stam return, that is probably valid. However, I think the best route is to spec for Battle Roar.

Meaning, light armor Tavas and Blood spawn with Bats.

In LA you have no armor, period, vs pretty much anything stam. Youre lucky if you still have armor, even with a major buff active vs magicka damage.

We need to sit down and have a chat ish, someone put bad ideas into your head my man, HA is still the strongest counter to stamspammers in the game, even 10k armor (post penetration vs the strongest pen builds, considering youre going to have an armor buff active ID HOPE), is still 15% straight up miti, add block and youre taking WBs from 10k down to 2k. You will not do that with LA, nor does LA have the stam sustain needed to block that WB spam either.

Im still trying to get my head around this tava's craze. Ive tested it, its kinda trash really. Regens? on a DK? really? The ult gain isnt even all that good, its basically a major heroism buff which you can get from multiple sources already, and then just health + regen. Regen is the last thing a magidk should ever stack.

And then just kick it old school, bats, 15 seconds later pop tri or immoveable health/magicka potion, bats should be up around then when needed.

Someone in the thread mentioned 20 seconds? Hell naw, 10-15 is more realistic, even having no cost reduction (potentates) or ult generation (tavas) sets equipped.

I run heavy tavas in my most recent vid. You can see just how ultspasmic Tavas can be. Combined with shuffle and that adds some extra mitigation in terms of completely negating certain attacks with RNG.


I've been running Kags with Potentate on my AD which as you can see is still tanky, but I would have been able to last a little longer against DR if I had my Tavas on lol.

My builds are meant to be class-neutral. You can take anything I run and put it on any class and it does the same thing. Funny enough my templar supertank is the same exact build as my magidk (just breton racial difference and templar passives)

I suppose mastering a timing rotation (knowing exactly how long it takes to charge up ults currently) negates need for anything faster. When I ran a try on tavas (per my buddy Ayrene vice born's advice) i was immediately underwhelmed.

Lose too much in the backend for a small return in one place (2k base magicka or 200+ spell damage traded for meager regens =/= good fundamental building IMO)

Compare the statout on 5kags, 4 shadowdancer, 3 magnus with the stat loadout on 5 tavas 4 shadowdancer, 3 magnus and youll see what i mean. Regens go up such a tiny amount, and immediately notice right away that spell damage and max pools follow suit. In fact both sets share the magicka regen, but you lose a full mod of max magicka and a double of spell damage to gain a single stam regen net? yeah, no.

Besides, rez speed matters, as does the magicka return if your 2vX partner goes down

I chalk it up to different outlooks on "how to build a character 101" i have a specific set of criteria I must reach, and use what I need to get there, deviation usually results in me getting mad and remaking everything again. Im pretty set in my ways haha.

Besides my main beef is this whole notion that LA magicka DK is good. Not... really. Its actually pretty bad in most cases.

Ishammael wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

forzajuve212 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

By in large, Doges is correct.

However, DK was by far the best design class in terms of ability functions and synergy. For the most part, this is still readily apparent today despite so many changes to core mechanics.

RE: race choices. 7% fire dmg is just too good. Dunmer is the clear choice. Altmer a close second. Breton third. Imperial a close fourth because DK benefits from health and stam, even when magicka specced.

RE: gearing. I have basically tried everything mentioned in this thread. I have played extensively with heavy armor. I think LA is clearly much stronger without the Bracing passive. Five pieces of heavy gets you 200dmg, 8% healing, 10% HP, 5k armor, and ~450 regen. Five pieces of light gives you 20% regen, 15% cost redux, 5k pen, and 10% critical. Not even really close, TBH.

How do you feel in terms of tankabillity in your light armor setup vs your heavy armor? Do you feel like you can survive as much? I'll probably be trying 5 light eventually

Survivability is fine. You're blocking.

If you want the numbers, here they are:

5H gets you about 18k or so armor if equipping sword and shield.

Base armor penetration on 2H is 5k (lol).
Major fracture is 5k (spammable debuff for the most part)
30 pts in armor pen is another 2k or so

That's 12k penetration with basically zero effort. Throw in 2H maul, optimized CPs. You HA build is worth 5k armor, tops. This is why DKs block -- for 60% dmg reduction -- because armor is basically worthless.

Now, if you want to make the argument for Constitution stam return, that is probably valid. However, I think the best route is to spec for Battle Roar.

Meaning, light armor Tavas and Blood spawn with Bats.

In LA you have no armor, period, vs pretty much anything stam. Youre lucky if you still have armor, even with a major buff active vs magicka damage.

We need to sit down and have a chat ish, someone put bad ideas into your head my man, HA is still the strongest counter to stamspammers in the game, even 10k armor (post penetration vs the strongest pen builds, considering youre going to have an armor buff active ID HOPE), is still 15% straight up miti, add block and youre taking WBs from 10k down to 2k. You will not do that with LA, nor does LA have the stam sustain needed to block that WB spam either.

Im still trying to get my head around this tava's craze. Ive tested it, its kinda trash really. Regens? on a DK? really? The ult gain isnt even all that good, its basically a major heroism buff which you can get from multiple sources already, and then just health + regen. Regen is the last thing a magidk should ever stack.

And then just kick it old school, bats, 15 seconds later pop tri or immoveable health/magicka potion, bats should be up around then when needed.

Someone in the thread mentioned 20 seconds? Hell naw, 10-15 is more realistic, even having no cost reduction (potentates) or ult generation (tavas) sets equipped.

If you like HA, that is cool.

Some comments
1. Major heroism is not available to DK. Where, exactly, are you getting this buff?
2. 158/3 = 51s for Bats. How, exactly, are you getting Bats in 10s without additional ultimate regen? You're not using BS, potentate, or Tavas.
3. 5k armor pen and 10% critical from LA is worth like 600-800 spell damage, minimum.
4. Let's say you have 5k armor in heavy after penetration. In light you have 0. That's an 8% dmg difference. (You don't need to include major resolve because both setups get it) 8% dmg reduction coupled with 8% healing is really good, I agree.
5. I don't see how you can sustain in 5H with 1400 regen and no set-based cost redux (e.g. seducer, wurm)
6. If you're blocking, your armor dmg reduction is reduced by the amount of block dmg reduction because they multiply. The 8% dmg reduction compared to LA is therefore only about 3-4%. Bottom line: armor is *** in ESO.

KisoValley wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

forzajuve212 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

By in large, Doges is correct.

However, DK was by far the best design class in terms of ability functions and synergy. For the most part, this is still readily apparent today despite so many changes to core mechanics.

RE: race choices. 7% fire dmg is just too good. Dunmer is the clear choice. Altmer a close second. Breton third. Imperial a close fourth because DK benefits from health and stam, even when magicka specced.

RE: gearing. I have basically tried everything mentioned in this thread. I have played extensively with heavy armor. I think LA is clearly much stronger without the Bracing passive. Five pieces of heavy gets you 200dmg, 8% healing, 10% HP, 5k armor, and ~450 regen. Five pieces of light gives you 20% regen, 15% cost redux, 5k pen, and 10% critical. Not even really close, TBH.

How do you feel in terms of tankabillity in your light armor setup vs your heavy armor? Do you feel like you can survive as much? I'll probably be trying 5 light eventually

Survivability is fine. You're blocking.

If you want the numbers, here they are:

5H gets you about 18k or so armor if equipping sword and shield.

Base armor penetration on 2H is 5k (lol).
Major fracture is 5k (spammable debuff for the most part)
30 pts in armor pen is another 2k or so

That's 12k penetration with basically zero effort. Throw in 2H maul, optimized CPs. You HA build is worth 5k armor, tops. This is why DKs block -- for 60% dmg reduction -- because armor is basically worthless.

Now, if you want to make the argument for Constitution stam return, that is probably valid. However, I think the best route is to spec for Battle Roar.

Meaning, light armor Tavas and Blood spawn with Bats.

In LA you have no armor, period, vs pretty much anything stam. Youre lucky if you still have armor, even with a major buff active vs magicka damage.

We need to sit down and have a chat ish, someone put bad ideas into your head my man, HA is still the strongest counter to stamspammers in the game, even 10k armor (post penetration vs the strongest pen builds, considering youre going to have an armor buff active ID HOPE), is still 15% straight up miti, add block and youre taking WBs from 10k down to 2k. You will not do that with LA, nor does LA have the stam sustain needed to block that WB spam either.

Im still trying to get my head around this tava's craze. Ive tested it, its kinda trash really. Regens? on a DK? really? The ult gain isnt even all that good, its basically a major heroism buff which you can get from multiple sources already, and then just health + regen. Regen is the last thing a magidk should ever stack.

And then just kick it old school, bats, 15 seconds later pop tri or immoveable health/magicka potion, bats should be up around then when needed.

Someone in the thread mentioned 20 seconds? Hell naw, 10-15 is more realistic, even having no cost reduction (potentates) or ult generation (tavas) sets equipped.

If you like HA, that is cool.

Some comments
1. Major heroism is not available to DK. Where, exactly, are you getting this buff?
2. 158/3 = 51s for Bats. How, exactly, are you getting Bats in 10s without additional ultimate regen? You're not using BS, potentate, or Tavas.
3. 5k armor pen and 10% critical from LA is worth like 600-800 spell damage, minimum.
4. Let's say you have 5k armor in heavy after penetration. In light you have 0. That's an 8% dmg difference. (You don't need to include major resolve because both setups get it) 8% dmg reduction coupled with 8% healing is really good, I agree.
5. I don't see how you can sustain in 5H with 1400 regen and no set-based cost redux (e.g. seducer, wurm)
6. If you're blocking, your armor dmg reduction is reduced by the amount of block dmg reduction because they multiply. The 8% dmg reduction compared to LA is therefore only about 3-4%. Bottom line: armor is *** in ESO.

1 and 2:
51 seconds if you do nothing but light attack. Mountains blessing 3 ulti every 6 seconds, heroic slash 1 every 1.5 seconds, any kills you generate +20 ultimate, any undead kills (or werewolves) +29 ultimate. Major Heroism is tricky because the only accessible source most go after is mostly a stam DK thing, the last stand tree, and while I myself lack this passive, it is completely viable to chase it as a magicka DK, you just have to rely on DoTs and use your SnB attacks a little more often. 100 points to theuma and 20 into precise strikes, major heroism in execute range. That being said...

15 seconds ultimate regen in heavy combat throwing oneself into a stack of players and getting kills? Absolutely. hell without killing anyone youre down to about 25 seconds just from spamming heroic slash + igneous every few seconds with light attacks running.

3:
Ive said it before and I will say it again, relying on critical rating in cyro is laughably bad, shields, barriers, impen, transmutation, gg, i think you get that point. The spell pen is the only palpable advantage to wearing LA, but youre sacrificing 6-10k physical resistance and spell resistance to obtain that penetration. Effectively, youre glassing out, and while that may work somewhat on other glass, you try that pen build vs a heavy tank and watch it fall flat on its face. I will gladly demonstrate with ya sometime my friend.

4.
At least you see eye to eye on me in this regard, 8 percent damage redux and 8 percent healing received is serious business.

5.
You and I have ran together, fought against each other, known each other for over a year, tell me again if I have sustain problems. 1400 regen on a 40k pool seems low, granted it would be if not for DK's being regeneration machines. Lets go with an ultimate timer of.... i dunno, 30 seconds. My bats give me back 16k magicka when I cast them (literally just checked in game to be sure of this), 16k/30 = 533.33/second, which comes out to 1067 magicka recovery actual (remember thats calculated on a 2 second pulse) So my actual magicka recovery is over 2500, and thats without potions. Then you pop any magicka potion effect, increase base magicka recovery to about 1700 + a magicka instaheal of 7582 every 45 seconds, drop on continuous attack, that can go to 2k. You see where this is going? I literally dont need more than 1200-1400 to sustain long term.

For more serious math, lets look at your low-ball ultimate number of 51 seconds for bats. 1638 base recovery on Rylana Dionysis. 39,141 magicka. my bats heal for about 16k magicka every 51 seconds, I can pop a potion every 45 seconds for an additional 7582. 16000/51 = 313.7 + 7582/45 = 168.49. So 168.5 + 313.7 = 482.2 (times 2 to achieve a stat number) 964.4 + 1638 = 2602.4 magicka recovery sustained at the minimum ultimate regen rate of 3/second. This is as low as I go, assuming im globalling on potions as well, like we all do normally. (not to mention that because im accounting for being on globals with potions here, I have major intellect up full-time with alchemy passives, so my recovery is actually closer to 2800)

Add in constitution returns, returns from draw essence, and it becomes academic. Heavy Armor sustain is easy mode if you account for the fact you have to time when you use things for when you actually need them (like not blowing a potion too early)

6. 4 percent is 4 percent. Keep in mind that every little bit really adds up, especially when youre rolling a 10stack of wrath for 200 more spell damage, have 900+ constitution ticking off every 4 seconds, and are generally reducing incoming DPS to something with manageable parameters.


I wasnt trying to bag you Ish, but you know me, I am a math nerd and have been doing this for literally years, I wouldnt use something that was actually bad without knowing its limits, drawbacks, and strengths all together.

Biggest weakness of my builds? 1v1. But that might be a playstyle thing. I lack single target burst, but god help the guy that tries to actually fight me solo, he is in for a headache and a half.

Whats ur build?