With new Racial Passives to Argonian, are you creating a healer or changing your existing Templar?

PlagueMonk · June 2016

Robbmrp wrote: »

I really like the changes that they made for Agonians. I had a Sorc that I never played but these make me want to create a new ArgonianTemplar and make a straight healer of them. The healing done by 9% combined with The Ritual Mundus(all 7 divines) and new CP160 Healers Habit is going to be really hard to beat on any other class. And with only having to get to level 50 now, there's going to be a ton of these running around.

Argonian Skills
Amphibious: This passive ability has been renamed to “Resourceful.” Also, it no longer increases your swimming speed by 50%. It now increases your Max Magicka by 1/2/3%, and continues to restore 4/8/12% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina whenever you drink a potion.
Quick to Mend: This passive ability now increases your healing done by 3/6/9%, instead of increasing your healing received by 3/6/9%.
Restoration Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Amphibian.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your swimming speed by 50%.

The proposed changes pigeonhole Argonians into a healer role and CRIPPLE the non-healer Argonians because they will gain no benefit from the "big" racial ability.

It is complete and total crapola that I can only hope does not make it to live.

kalishnikov89 · July 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Going to be sad that there will be a huge influx of fake Argonians now!

Us real Argonian (and Argonian healers) were here for the lore before the passive change!

So hipster....

Lol was just about to say the same thing. Ughhh..

JimT722 · July 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

I really like the changes that they made for Agonians. I had a Sorc that I never played but these make me want to create a new ArgonianTemplar and make a straight healer of them. The healing done by 9% combined with The Ritual Mundus(all 7 divines) and new CP160 Healers Habit is going to be really hard to beat on any other class. And with only having to get to level 50 now, there's going to be a ton of these running around.

Argonian Skills
Amphibious: This passive ability has been renamed to “Resourceful.” Also, it no longer increases your swimming speed by 50%. It now increases your Max Magicka by 1/2/3%, and continues to restore 4/8/12% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina whenever you drink a potion.
Quick to Mend: This passive ability now increases your healing done by 3/6/9%, instead of increasing your healing received by 3/6/9%.
Restoration Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Amphibian.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your swimming speed by 50%.

The proposed changes pigeonhole Argonians into a healer role and CRIPPLE the non-healer Argonians because they will gain no benefit from the "big" racial ability.

It is complete and total crapola that I can only hope does not make it to live.

I don't see how this will negatively impact most argonians. Siphon nightblade dps, sap tanks, and healer builds will benefit. Seems to increase versatility to me but that's just an opinion.

LadyNalcarya · July 2016

No, I wont change to argonian, no matter how huge the buff would be. I care about my characters appearance too much and Ive always found argonians creepy (uncanny valley kind of creepy).
Besides, this particular buff is not even lore-friendly and pigeonholes the race, basically. Lore-wise it would make sense for them to be versatile, not bound to one role.

Van_0S · July 2016

Argonian passive(9%)+ powers trait(7%)+ healers habit set (8%)= 24% healing done, Very OP healers!

Jar_Ek · July 2016

My Argonian sorcerer tank and DK both just got completely gutted. So no I will not make a fotm Argonian Templar.

KochDerDamonen · July 2016

I have an argonian healer already that I was planning on changing into some other role for fun...

was >w>

Miszou · July 2016

Jar_Ek wrote: »

My Argonian sorcerer tank and DK both just got completely gutted. So no I will not make a fotm Argonian Templar.

^ THIS

Silver_Strider · July 2016

Ok, I get the frustration at constantly having the Shadowscale/Guerilla Fighter Lore ignored, I really do but at the same time, I don't feel that the removal of Healing Received is as huge a nerf as people make it out to be.

I mean, has anyone thoroughly tested the changes in PTS to decide if it's truly that big a deal?
I've tried it and have noticed 0 difference between my Stamblade, Magblade, NB Sap Tank, DK Tank or Templar in survivability, be it in solo instances like vMA, Dungeons like ICP, or Trials like vSO. I was getting healed same as always in group content where I wasn't the healer and my survivability hadn't changed, at all. The only things I really noticed was my Magblade has become much better at both solo and group instances, my Sap Tank is now my go to tank instead of my DK and my Templar has become elevated to god-tier as far as healing goes. My Stamblade and DK tank have not noticed much of a change either as their self heals remain virtually untouched in their potency and since competent healers can still keep them up without a problem, I fail to see the issue, other than lore related ones constantly being ignored.

imapogostick · July 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

Everybody that changes his/her pve healer to argonian because he/she thinks thats the new best race has no idea. No need for even more overhealing when you can have 7% more magicka to better support DD´s with Drain/Siphon/Repentance.

If you know how to run a healer you shouldn't ever run out of magic. I heal in 5 heavy with no problems for sustain and that's without the 3 percent magic bonus we're about to get

Silver_Strider · July 2016

imapogostick wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Everybody that changes his/her pve healer to argonian because he/she thinks thats the new best race has no idea. No need for even more overhealing when you can have 7% more magicka to better support DD´s with Drain/Siphon/Repentance.

If you know how to run a healer you shouldn't ever run out of magic. I heal in 5 heavy with no problems for sustain and that's without the 3 percent magic bonus we're about to get

I believe he's saying that Healers shouldn't switch to Argonians because Altmer and Bretons have 7% more magic, making their versions of Drain/Siphon/Repentance more effective than an Argonians, thus they are better at helping others sustain their resources thru those abilities.

Eshelmen · July 2016

Neh, I love my Breton MagPlar. I wouldn't change him at all. Not even his stupid looking pony tail that I picked for him.

But then again, if I did, I may pick Nord.

clocksstoppe · July 2016

My breath of life already heals anyone that's not a super health stacked tank to full. Don't see the need to switch to argonian, gonna keep my templar healer a Breton.

Leon119 · July 2016

As an imperial templar im looking forward to race change so i can be a breton or altmer ( still need to decide between those ).
Gotta get that sweet sweet sustain. More healing done isnt that important unless u can spam said heals because most of the time u end up overhealing anw

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

I think there a specific point where more healing isn't worth it, after that you need more damage and sustain.

So I still think argonians lack a lot of max magika and regen/reduced cost for them to be better than bretons or altmers as healers even with the 9% increased healing.

I think is what is unfortunate here. I see the Argonians as a tireless race. I'd have preferred they had strong regenerations to match that. I don't see them as the strongest (Nords, Orcs) or the fastest (Orcs, Bosmer) or the smartest (Dunmer, Altmer). I do see them as generally a very athletic race though and it just doesn't feel right without some recognition of that. I'm pretty sure in Morrowind the Argonian was one of the few races with a +15 to athletics and I'm pretty sure they had a bonus to Acrobatics as well.

Elsonso · July 2016

mb10 wrote: »

Going to be sad that there will be a huge influx of fake Argonians now!

Us real Argonian (and Argonian healers) were here for the lore before the passive change!

Yeah, I have had an Argonian Templar healer for a while now.

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2016

altemriel wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

I would delete my Toons before I made them into an Argonian.

Yuck!

I played argonian in Skyrim and it was super fun!!! and diving without taking care about air, that was great, I was exploring the underwater life of lakes and rivers, it was awesome. too bad I stopped playing Skyrim (because of too many mods, total freezing, unplayable) before the underwater argonian house mod came out, it was awesome!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQdr6h1k2Ic

please ZOS, would you buy that mod from the developer and incorporate it into the update of the new argonian dlc??
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_TristanK @Wrobel

I agree.

Junkogen · July 2016

JimT722 wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

I really like the changes that they made for Agonians. I had a Sorc that I never played but these make me want to create a new ArgonianTemplar and make a straight healer of them. The healing done by 9% combined with The Ritual Mundus(all 7 divines) and new CP160 Healers Habit is going to be really hard to beat on any other class. And with only having to get to level 50 now, there's going to be a ton of these running around.

Argonian Skills
Amphibious: This passive ability has been renamed to “Resourceful.” Also, it no longer increases your swimming speed by 50%. It now increases your Max Magicka by 1/2/3%, and continues to restore 4/8/12% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina whenever you drink a potion.
Quick to Mend: This passive ability now increases your healing done by 3/6/9%, instead of increasing your healing received by 3/6/9%.
Restoration Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Amphibian.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your swimming speed by 50%.

The proposed changes pigeonhole Argonians into a healer role and CRIPPLE the non-healer Argonians because they will gain no benefit from the "big" racial ability.

It is complete and total crapola that I can only hope does not make it to live.

I don't see how this will negatively impact most argonians. Siphon nightblade dps, sap tanks, and healer builds will benefit. Seems to increase versatility to me but that's just an opinion.

In no way does the change benefit DPS or make them a DPS race.

imapogostick · July 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Everybody that changes his/her pve healer to argonian because he/she thinks thats the new best race has no idea. No need for even more overhealing when you can have 7% more magicka to better support DD´s with Drain/Siphon/Repentance.

If you know how to run a healer you shouldn't ever run out of magic. I heal in 5 heavy with no problems for sustain and that's without the 3 percent magic bonus we're about to get

I believe he's saying that Healers shouldn't switch to Argonians because Altmer and Bretons have 7% more magic, making their versions of Drain/Siphon/Repentance more effective than an Argonians, thus they are better at helping others sustain their resources thru those abilities.

Yeah I know what he meant. But those abilities can be used by the worst magic class races as a magplar at least I have no problem with it but I was talking pve and not pvp. Which makes healing different at least for me

Phinix1 · July 2016

me_ming wrote: »

Playing as a healer though, I have realized that no matter how strong you can heal (especially in PvE), there will be one-shot mechanics and unless you know how the mechanics work and avoid the damage, there is no amount of healing that can save you or your group members.

ZOS bosses be like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxkrIftgJYI

Personally, I am still stuck on where the 3% more magicka really tips the scales, if you pardon the pun. Fairly certain most serious end-game healers will keep their current race (Altmer/Breton), if for no other reason than it is more important to be able to add DPS while supporting and doing some healing than being able to simply over-heal everything which as you point out, doesn't really work to carry a bad group through mechanics in this game.

Argonian adds virtually no passive improvements to damage and sustain. For most fights the potion buff doesn't even come into play, as it is used at full health/resources at the start of the fight to buff, and the boss is dead before it is usable again.

Sure a little more heals is nice, but the little more magicka scaling your healing abilities for other races on top of the damage (elemental damage passive for Altmer) and sustain (regen on Altmer cost reduction on Breton) makes it a tough call to re-roll for any reason besides RP value.

Which I suppose is as it should be, if ZOS didn't go nuts and give like not even funny ridiculous OP racial passives to Redguards for stamina, throwing the whole concept of "vanity passives" out the window. XD

clocksstoppe · July 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Playing as a healer though, I have realized that no matter how strong you can heal (especially in PvE), there will be one-shot mechanics and unless you know how the mechanics work and avoid the damage, there is no amount of healing that can save you or your group members.

ZOS bosses be like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxkrIftgJYI

Personally, I am still stuck on where the 3% more magicka really tips the scales, if you pardon the pun. Fairly certain most serious end-game healers will keep their current race (Altmer/Breton), if for no other reason than it is more important to be able to add DPS while supporting and doing some healing than being able to simply over-heal everything which as you point out, doesn't really work to carry a bad group through mechanics in this game.

Argonian adds virtually no passive improvements to damage and zero to sustain. Sure a little more heals is nice, but the little more magicka scaling your healing abilities for other races on top of the damage (elemental damage passive for Altmer) and sustain (regen on Altmer cost reduction on Breton) makes it a tough call to re-roll for any reason besides RP value.

There is sustain. Potion passive is pretty significant. But the max Magicka bonus being small is a big deal. If it will be big enough of a deal.. we will see.

FriedEggSandwich · July 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Going to be sad that there will be a huge influx of fake Argonians now!

Us real Argonian (and Argonian healers) were here for the lore before the passive change!

So hipster....

I've had mine since shortly after launch, he was v8 before vet ranks were removed. Probably won't be playing him after the racial buff cos I can only be good at one class at a time, and I still want that to be my sorc. I guess that means I don't qualify as a real argonian templar

Pomaikai · July 2016

mb10 wrote: »

Going to be sad that there will be a huge influx of fake Argonians now!

Us real Argonian (and Argonian healers) were here for the lore before the passive change!

All I read was, fap, fap, fap, fap...

JimT722 · July 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

I really like the changes that they made for Agonians. I had a Sorc that I never played but these make me want to create a new ArgonianTemplar and make a straight healer of them. The healing done by 9% combined with The Ritual Mundus(all 7 divines) and new CP160 Healers Habit is going to be really hard to beat on any other class. And with only having to get to level 50 now, there's going to be a ton of these running around.

Argonian Skills
Amphibious: This passive ability has been renamed to “Resourceful.” Also, it no longer increases your swimming speed by 50%. It now increases your Max Magicka by 1/2/3%, and continues to restore 4/8/12% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina whenever you drink a potion.
Quick to Mend: This passive ability now increases your healing done by 3/6/9%, instead of increasing your healing received by 3/6/9%.
Restoration Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Amphibian.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your swimming speed by 50%.

The proposed changes pigeonhole Argonians into a healer role and CRIPPLE the non-healer Argonians because they will gain no benefit from the "big" racial ability.

It is complete and total crapola that I can only hope does not make it to live.

I don't see how this will negatively impact most argonians. Siphon nightblade dps, sap tanks, and healer builds will benefit. Seems to increase versatility to me but that's just an opinion.

In no way does the change benefit DPS or make them a DPS race.

Never said it benefits viability of dps but argonians that are dps that use "siphon" abilities like funnel health and sap essence like my magicka nightblade will see a benefit. That's why I said siphon dps. Don't imply meaning that isn't there.

Junkogen · July 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Playing as a healer though, I have realized that no matter how strong you can heal (especially in PvE), there will be one-shot mechanics and unless you know how the mechanics work and avoid the damage, there is no amount of healing that can save you or your group members.

ZOS bosses be like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxkrIftgJYI

Personally, I am still stuck on where the 3% more magicka really tips the scales, if you pardon the pun. Fairly certain most serious end-game healers will keep their current race (Altmer/Breton), if for no other reason than it is more important to be able to add DPS while supporting and doing some healing than being able to simply over-heal everything which as you point out, doesn't really work to carry a bad group through mechanics in this game.

Argonian adds virtually no passive improvements to damage and sustain. For most fights the potion buff doesn't even come into play, as it is used at full health/resources at the start of the fight to buff, and the boss is dead before it is usable again.

Sure a little more heals is nice, but the little more magicka scaling your healing abilities for other races on top of the damage (elemental damage passive for Altmer) and sustain (regen on Altmer cost reduction on Breton) makes it a tough call to re-roll for any reason besides RP value.

Which I suppose is as it should be, if ZOS didn't go nuts and give like not even funny ridiculous OP racial passives to Redguards for stamina, throwing the whole concept of "vanity passives" out the window. XD

You make good points which I agree with. That's why I'll most likely be switching my Argonian's race. ZOS doesn't seem to understand how these passives actually work in game. They seem to think they're great and on par with Redguard and Altmer passives, but they just continually fall flat in so many ways. Hats off to the healers I guess.

Hopefully race change is reasonably priced.

Browiseth · July 2016

I think it's a bad change imo. I'd prefer to keep the healing recieved

xoduspaladin · July 2016

Already got a cool healer, so I won't make my Argonian a healer, but I will actually play around with a Siphon Nightblade build with an Argonian, that sounds like it could be fun.

Dr_Ganknstein · July 2016

Browiseth wrote: »

I think it's a bad change imo. I'd prefer to keep the healing recieved

I thought about this but if you are healing for 9% more than aren't you being healed for 9% more as well? Isn't it 9% from/for all sources?

Autolycus · July 2016

I have been an Argonian DK healer since early access. I never intended to change, and I certainly will not now

Robbmrp · July 2016

Icky wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

I think it's a bad change imo. I'd prefer to keep the healing recieved

I thought about this but if you are healing for 9% more than aren't you being healed for 9% more as well? Isn't it 9% from/for all sources?

@Icky as long as the heal your casting actually goes to you..... with this so called "smart" healing, half the time we can't even heal ourselves outside of Vigor or Ward Ally....