Gap Closer Challenge to Zenimax

Some_Guy · June 2016

Zenimax, are we still banning people who exploit, or did we give up on that? I have a screen shot with a player openly admitting to exploiting and saying that Zenimax isn't going to do anything about it. I also have a video of this exploit (using a gap closer to enter keeps and outposts through solid walls). They aren't even trying to hide it. An entire group charged into the outpost, none of the walls were down, nor was the door. I have subitted a report to Zenimax asking where they would like the video to be sent (if I had the editing skills I would post it with name edited out, so as not to "name and shame").
I invite Zenimax and any of their people to join my guild in our teamspeak and to run with us in PvP to see these exploits face-to-face. They are game breaking, and disheartening when the players can't see any response to these people who would so blatantly break Zenimax's rules.

Some_Guy · June 2016

imgur.com/Ev88FUS

Sandman929 · June 2016

There are so many NBs jumping walls that if you know you have to defend, you're better off just aiming all counter siege at your own walls before the actual siege even begins.

Mumyo · June 2016

Some_Guy wrote: »

Zenimax, are we still banning people who exploit, or did we give up on that? I have a screen shot with a player openly admitting to exploiting and saying that Zenimax isn't going to do anything about it. I also have a video of this exploit (using a gap closer to enter keeps and outposts through solid walls). They aren't even trying to hide it. An entire group charged into the outpost, none of the walls were down, nor was the door. I have subitted a report to Zenimax asking where they would like the video to be sent (if I had the editing skills I would post it with name edited out, so as not to "name and shame").
I invite Zenimax and any of their people to join my guild in our teamspeak and to run with us in PvP to see these exploits face-to-face. They are game breaking, and disheartening when the players can't see any response to these people who would so blatantly break Zenimax's rules.

You see that from a false perspective, it's not really the case that someone is trying to exploit mechanics, the charge is a simple core mechanic and is THAT broken for so long now.

There are cases where players are to blame because of abusing mechanics but this is a 100% zenimax.
A pvp coremechanic not working for almost half a year.... and now u teleport if u want it or not, in the other cases u can't even charge anything.

So if Zenimax would now start to bann people for just pushing button #1 or something like that is not the way to go.
You don't have to do weird stuff to exploit it, u just have to push the button 1 time and u fly into the enemy.
At this stage i wouldn't call that exploit anymore, we need a new word for that.

I had a break for some time now but yesterday i was fighting at an outpost and 1 guy stood on the wall, i just wanted to know what happens if i try to charge him and shwoooop, i flew on top of the outpost.

I was giggling and butchered everyone inside that outpost.
Of course it was wrong because if everyone did it, it would ruin pvp for everyone... just as zergs do.
But on the other side, there is Zenimax responsibility to fix a coremechanic and they had so much time and din't care at all.
Such a thing usually is hotfixed but not here.

Some_Guy · June 2016

There is a difference between accidentally using a broken ability and exploiting a broken ability on purpose. As seen in the image, the user knew the ability was broken and chose to exploit it anywa, even stating that they are abusing it. Abusing it. It wasn't just one accidental cast, it was an entire group, and they knew what they were doing.
I have used things that were broken before, and upon finding that they were broken I submitted a bug report, and stopped using the broken ability. I remember when the DK leap and ambush could be used to tab target guards inside a keep or outpost. I reported it has broken and avoided tab targeting guards through solid walls so as not to purposefully exploit these clearly broken abilities.
The video that I have (which I know you can't see because I don't know how to edit out the names) shows an entire raid jumping into the uppermost part of an outpost, not just in one single accidental cast, but over and over a period of time. The conversation in the image took place after this event, and the player clearly indicated that they knew they were abusing a broken ability.

Lord-Otto · June 2016

Wrecking Blow CC through CC immunity was also an exploit. Same with Reverberating Bash. Spamming Focused Aim to get that legendary "Dead Man Walking" kill? Exploit. Hell, even animation cancelling is strictly an exploit.
I get annoyed on my sorc when I have to chase down NBs and DKs because my people just couldn't resist shooting from walls instead of putting up siege, luring in gap closers. But ban those people because they use what the game is giving them? Well, how about we ban zergers first? Then the people who use the OP FOTM class. That's also exploiting of AoE caps and stuff.
This is ZOS's fault, they have the responsibility to fix it. Should they ban anyone for jumping into keeps, they could prepare to get their butts kicked from big brother Bethesda. Not happening.

Some_Guy · June 2016

So it's Zenimax's fault for not forcing players to play "the right way"? I guess it's their fault for allowing 3rd party applications to give god-mode, and since it's their fault and not ours, we can't be blamed for using it.
Focused Aim isn't an exploit, it's just ridiculously overpowered. Animation Canceling was addressed in an ESO live as "unintended, but welcome" and not an exploit.
Arguably, wrecking blow and reverberating bash were also ridiculously overpowered (I would certainly say they were), but were "necessary parts of a build" and players didn't have to go out of their way to exploit their overpowered abilities. Focusing upward on a player 30+ feet above you to "jump" to them with an ability not intended to do that? Not exactly the same thing. I could possibly see Dragon Leap being allowed to do that, and MAYBE Teleport Strike (because it's a "leap" and a "teleport"), but charges that are meant for ground fighting? Nah.
Either way, Zenimax will decide.

Sandman929 · June 2016

As a general rule for gamers, if someone enjoys doing something, it's NEVER an exploit. It's sort like a criminal saying "If you had better security I wouldn't have to rob you"

danno8 · June 2016

Unfortunately OP, you will find there are many people who absolve themselves of any personal responsibility for many various flimsy reasons. Such as (but not limited to):

1. "It's ZoS's job to fix everything"
2. "Others are doing it, so I have to do it too"
3. "They won't ban me so it must be fine"
4. "It's not an exploit it's a bug!" and other various semantics designed to obfuscate their true actions and intentions

Many people will cheat if they believe they can get away with it. However most people don't like to see themselves as cheaters so they will run through a list (like the one above) to feel better about themselves.

Sandman929 · June 2016

danno8 wrote: »

Unfortunately OP, you will find there are many people who absolve themselves of any personal responsibility for many various flimsy reasons. Such as (but not limited to):

1. "It's ZoS's job to fix everything"
2. "Others are doing it, so I have to do it too"
3. "They won't ban me so it must be fine"
4. "It's not an exploit it's a bug!" and other various semantics designed to obfuscate their true actions and intentions

Many people will cheat if they believe they can get away with it. However most people don't like to see themselves as cheaters so they will run through a list (like the one above) to feel better about themselves.

The levels of rationalization are always amusing though..."ban zergers" seen above is a very strange attempt to equate abusing a broken skill willfully to people moving in the same direction. Yeah, those two are the same.

Sandman929 · June 2016

"It's the mechanics! It's ZOS! I can't help it if I have to use it!"

The_Lex · June 2016

Some_Guy wrote: »

Zenimax, are we still banning people who exploit, or did we give up on that? I have a screen shot with a player openly admitting to exploiting and saying that Zenimax isn't going to do anything about it. I also have a video of this exploit (using a gap closer to enter keeps and outposts through solid walls). They aren't even trying to hide it. An entire group charged into the outpost, none of the walls were down, nor was the door. I have subitted a report to Zenimax asking where they would like the video to be sent (if I had the editing skills I would post it with name edited out, so as not to "name and shame").
I invite Zenimax and any of their people to join my guild in our teamspeak and to run with us in PvP to see these exploits face-to-face. They are game breaking, and disheartening when the players can't see any response to these people who would so blatantly break Zenimax's rules.

ZOS in PvP? I think we can all agree that ZOS will never PvP with us. You saw how badly the dev played during ESO Live, not to mention the surprised look on @Wrobel 's face at the poison damage numbers. I doubt they play the game anywhere else than their "controlled-environment" test systems.

danno8 · June 2016

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

Zenimax, are we still banning people who exploit, or did we give up on that? I have a screen shot with a player openly admitting to exploiting and saying that Zenimax isn't going to do anything about it. I also have a video of this exploit (using a gap closer to enter keeps and outposts through solid walls). They aren't even trying to hide it. An entire group charged into the outpost, none of the walls were down, nor was the door. I have subitted a report to Zenimax asking where they would like the video to be sent (if I had the editing skills I would post it with name edited out, so as not to "name and shame").
I invite Zenimax and any of their people to join my guild in our teamspeak and to run with us in PvP to see these exploits face-to-face. They are game breaking, and disheartening when the players can't see any response to these people who would so blatantly break Zenimax's rules.

ZOS in PvP? I think we can all agree that ZOS will never PvP with us. You saw how badly the dev played during ESO Live, not to mention the surprised look on @Wrobel 's face at the poison damage numbers. I doubt they play the game anywhere else than their "controlled-environment" test systems.

The "surprised look" was because the stupid death recap puts all ticks together and he probably (like 90% of the playerbase) believed it was all one big hit.

TBH poisons have hardly had any effect on most peoples gameplay.

Sandman929 · June 2016

danno8 wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

Zenimax, are we still banning people who exploit, or did we give up on that? I have a screen shot with a player openly admitting to exploiting and saying that Zenimax isn't going to do anything about it. I also have a video of this exploit (using a gap closer to enter keeps and outposts through solid walls). They aren't even trying to hide it. An entire group charged into the outpost, none of the walls were down, nor was the door. I have subitted a report to Zenimax asking where they would like the video to be sent (if I had the editing skills I would post it with name edited out, so as not to "name and shame").
I invite Zenimax and any of their people to join my guild in our teamspeak and to run with us in PvP to see these exploits face-to-face. They are game breaking, and disheartening when the players can't see any response to these people who would so blatantly break Zenimax's rules.

ZOS in PvP? I think we can all agree that ZOS will never PvP with us. You saw how badly the dev played during ESO Live, not to mention the surprised look on @Wrobel 's face at the poison damage numbers. I doubt they play the game anywhere else than their "controlled-environment" test systems.

The "surprised look" was because the stupid death recap puts all ticks together and he probably (like 90% of the playerbase) believed it was all one big hit.

TBH poisons have hardly had any effect on most peoples gameplay.

Fight starts, full stamina...0.5 seconds in, no stamina. Yeah, poisons are inconsequential.

The_Lex · June 2016

danno8 wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

Zenimax, are we still banning people who exploit, or did we give up on that? I have a screen shot with a player openly admitting to exploiting and saying that Zenimax isn't going to do anything about it. I also have a video of this exploit (using a gap closer to enter keeps and outposts through solid walls). They aren't even trying to hide it. An entire group charged into the outpost, none of the walls were down, nor was the door. I have subitted a report to Zenimax asking where they would like the video to be sent (if I had the editing skills I would post it with name edited out, so as not to "name and shame").
I invite Zenimax and any of their people to join my guild in our teamspeak and to run with us in PvP to see these exploits face-to-face. They are game breaking, and disheartening when the players can't see any response to these people who would so blatantly break Zenimax's rules.

ZOS in PvP? I think we can all agree that ZOS will never PvP with us. You saw how badly the dev played during ESO Live, not to mention the surprised look on @Wrobel 's face at the poison damage numbers. I doubt they play the game anywhere else than their "controlled-environment" test systems.

The "surprised look" was because the stupid death recap puts all ticks together and he probably (like 90% of the playerbase) believed it was all one big hit.

TBH poisons have hardly had any effect on most peoples gameplay.

Either way, it shows the combat director's general ignorance of a critical component of PvP. Ignoring @Wrobel 's obvious ignorance, the fact remains that Kyle had no clue what he was doing in PvP, which speaks volumes as to their utter lack of playing this game when it matters - against other players in primetime conditions.

hairahcas · June 2016

Bottom line is that it needs to be fixed asap.... clearly not something that is supposed to be part of the game (or is it?) You can't blame players when this defect is so obvious and only takes one press of a button. It's going to happen all the time in a big chaotic battle regardless. Everyone knows about it, yet they aren't doing anything. The only conclusion is they must want it as part of PvP?

Some_Guy · June 2016

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

Zenimax, are we still banning people who exploit, or did we give up on that? I have a screen shot with a player openly admitting to exploiting and saying that Zenimax isn't going to do anything about it. I also have a video of this exploit (using a gap closer to enter keeps and outposts through solid walls). They aren't even trying to hide it. An entire group charged into the outpost, none of the walls were down, nor was the door. I have subitted a report to Zenimax asking where they would like the video to be sent (if I had the editing skills I would post it with name edited out, so as not to "name and shame").
I invite Zenimax and any of their people to join my guild in our teamspeak and to run with us in PvP to see these exploits face-to-face. They are game breaking, and disheartening when the players can't see any response to these people who would so blatantly break Zenimax's rules.

ZOS in PvP? I think we can all agree that ZOS will never PvP with us. You saw how badly the dev played during ESO Live, not to mention the surprised look on @Wrobel 's face at the poison damage numbers. I doubt they play the game anywhere else than their "controlled-environment" test systems.

They could throw potatoes at the players for all I care lol, I just want them to see through personal experience what it's like being on the receiving end of people exploiting, especially to the extent of an entire group (10-15, maybe more, I didn't count) all jumping 30+ feet almost directly up into an outpost from the front porch.
Maybe (and I know this is stretching optimism) if they see the frustration up close, they'll be more.... motivated (?) to do something about it before "the next content update".

The_Lex · June 2016

Some_Guy wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

Zenimax, are we still banning people who exploit, or did we give up on that? I have a screen shot with a player openly admitting to exploiting and saying that Zenimax isn't going to do anything about it. I also have a video of this exploit (using a gap closer to enter keeps and outposts through solid walls). They aren't even trying to hide it. An entire group charged into the outpost, none of the walls were down, nor was the door. I have subitted a report to Zenimax asking where they would like the video to be sent (if I had the editing skills I would post it with name edited out, so as not to "name and shame").
I invite Zenimax and any of their people to join my guild in our teamspeak and to run with us in PvP to see these exploits face-to-face. They are game breaking, and disheartening when the players can't see any response to these people who would so blatantly break Zenimax's rules.

ZOS in PvP? I think we can all agree that ZOS will never PvP with us. You saw how badly the dev played during ESO Live, not to mention the surprised look on @Wrobel 's face at the poison damage numbers. I doubt they play the game anywhere else than their "controlled-environment" test systems.

They could throw potatoes at the players for all I care lol, I just want them to see through personal experience what it's like being on the receiving end of people exploiting, especially to the extent of an entire group (10-15, maybe more, I didn't count) all jumping 30+ feet almost directly up into an outpost from the front porch.
Maybe (and I know this is stretching optimism) if they see the frustration up close, they'll be more.... motivated (?) to do something about it before "the next content update".

"We, at Zenimax, understand how frustrating this has been for some of you . . . have you seen the brand-new really cool items in the Crown Store?"

Some_Guy · June 2016

I have never needed a "lol" button more than I need it right now...

Van_0S · June 2016

Some_Guy wrote: »

I have never needed a "lol" button more than I need it right now...

Here you go

y7IJp4XUUy4HCIPM9tYgB4Qo05yxU-5F0ZNJUq3aIk03l-ig1UIJ2lgi3n3QGwf0mRs1=w300

Some_Guy · June 2016

Van_0S wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

I have never needed a "lol" button more than I need it right now...

Here you go

So much yes

vpadget9592b14_ESO · June 2016

DAOC use to have wall climbing in certain points on keep. Made it very fun defending against stealth during raids. I play a blazing Shield Templar and love the surprise when someone jumps me as I port in. Lol. But I'm sure it's not fun to squishy classes.

SirAndy · June 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

it would ruin pvp for everyone... just as zergs do.

Are we playing the same game?

Last time i checked, this was AvAvA which by definition has zergs. They are part of the game. This isn't 1v1 PvP.

Sandman929 · June 2016

vpadget9592b14_ESO wrote: »

DAOC use to have wall climbing in certain points on keep. Made it very fun defending against stealth during raids. I play a blazing Shield Templar and love the surprise when someone jumps me as I port in. Lol. But I'm sure it's not fun to squishy classes.

I wouldn't oppose a wall scaling mechanic, with a way for a faction to be aware of it, and an adequate counter to it. But this isn't that.

Some_Guy · June 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

vpadget9592b14_ESO wrote: »

DAOC use to have wall climbing in certain points on keep. Made it very fun defending against stealth during raids. I play a blazing Shield Templar and love the surprise when someone jumps me as I port in. Lol. But I'm sure it's not fun to squishy classes.

I wouldn't oppose a wall scaling mechanic, with a way for a faction to be aware of it, and an adequate counter to it. But this isn't that.

I would also agree with that. If there were an ability designed to do that, that players were aware of. Unfortunately I fully believe people would find a way to exploit it too.
Maybe better to have a skill that forces a player down from a wall (like DK chains, but available through the Assault line, so as to be available to all classes).

silky_soft · June 2016

Who cares, Dk can do it for 2 years, no one bats an eyelid. Nb do it, everyone loses their mind.

Some_Guy · June 2016

silky_soft wrote: »

Who cares, Dk can do it for 2 years, no one bats an eyelid. Nb do it, everyone loses their mind.

DK is an ultimate and thus non-spammable, and as I said about, personally, I could see DK and NB as being able to do something LIKE this because of the description of the ability: "leap" and "teleport". Especially if it's nearly level, just across a gap (from a hill near a resource tower into the tower), but straight up 30+ feet...? Eh, I gotta go with no on that, otherwise what's the point in having walls at all?
But if we're going to be fair, I suppose either give it to them all, or to none at all.

Sandman929 · June 2016

silky_soft wrote: »

Who cares, Dk can do it for 2 years, no one bats an eyelid. Nb do it, everyone loses their mind.

I never minded the DK leap...it looked great, it looked like it made sense with the wings and all, and they jumped from roughly the same height. In my experience it was an occasional, and interesting mechanic added to siege.

Nowadays, 20 NB's show up and they're instantly inside the keep or outpost.

Minalan · July 2016

Everyone is doing it. So there's only one response. Troll them.

I got a couple of friends and setup death traps during a siege. We dropped three sets of mines down, then we lured some poor moron up by looking like a helpless newbie sorc hard casting frags. We got a long robe sorc as juicy bait, Stam guys can't resist light armor targets. They don't want to admit that the sorc class is f***ed and most are easy kills, but they still do it and laugh to themselves.

Then the poor victim hits three sets of mines, and three guys hit him with overload before he can land and react. The mines go off, they die every time.

/say Trololol enjoy the horse ride!

Waffennacht · July 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Everyone is doing it. So there's only one response. Troll them.

I got a couple of friends and setup death traps during a siege. We dropped three sets of mines down, then we lured some poor moron up by looking like a helpless newbie sorc hard casting frags. We got a long robe sorc as juicy bait, Stam guys can't resist light armor targets. They don't want to admit that the sorc class is f***ed and most are easy kills, but they still do it and laugh to themselves.

Then the poor victim hits three sets of mines, and three guys hit him with overload before he can land and react. The mines go off, they die every time.

/say Trololol enjoy the horse ride!

So much awesome

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

Well throwing this out there but my problem with gap closer is how they don't work...

Try to shield assault some one up a small foot hill invalid location.
Try to scorpion chain some one to me going down a hill target is to high/low.
Try to dragon leap off a keep and body slam onto some one invalid location yet I can jump up into a keep with it.

I just wanna body slam on players again .... that's all I cry for T~T