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ESO Future for hardcore players
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Mitoice✭✭✭✭✭
I don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
[/quote]
@Shedox
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???2 -
Mitoice✭✭✭✭✭I can guarantee you that if WOW had the combat, graphics and lore of this game, ESO would be dead in hours, but it isnt fair to say this since blizzard has 10x the amount of developers ZOS has0
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Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can guarantee you that if WOW had the combat, graphics and lore of this game, ESO would be dead in hours, but it isnt fair to say this since blizzard has 10x the amount of developers ZOS has
If WOW had a console port, I wouldn't even be posting on these forums. And WOW's lore was good enough to make a movie trilogy.Edited by Justice31st on June 29, 2016 11:04PM"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Justice31st wrote: »I can guarantee you that if WOW had the combat, graphics and lore of this game, ESO would be dead in hours, but it isnt fair to say this since blizzard has 10x the amount of developers ZOS has
If WOW had a console port, I wouldn't even be posting on these forums. And WOW's lore was good enough to make a movie trilogy.
Don't gotta be good to make a movie.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean come on, even Runescape (a web based browser game) is more hardcore than this game. You know how long it takes to get level 99 skills legit?"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Runescape was fun.. before they changed it/killed itEdited by Daemons_Bane on June 29, 2016 11:12PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »
Yes, that is what I do not like as well - I want to do it in a stealthy way, select my targets, but let eventually those alive, which I do not have to kill to achieve my goal. But when I enter a dungeon it is often so, that most mobs are dead, I do not even have a clue sometimes, what kind of mob is in that dungeon and the quest item or location to reach is effortless. So why am I doing that dungeon at all then, if I cannot experience in a way, in which is was meant to be played?0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
Seasoned gear & Arenas, MLG, Battlegrounds, open world PvP, Better Raids, BoA gear, raid token vendors to name a few.Edited by Justice31st on June 29, 2016 11:20PM"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Justice31st wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
Seasoned gear & Arenas, MLG, Battlegrounds, open world PvP, Better Raids, BoA gear, raid token vendors to name a few.
So... Basically more PvP features.
And token vendors for raids."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
Pandas - just kidding
0 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
Seasoned gear & Arenas, MLG, Battlegrounds, open world PvP, Better Raids, BoA gear, raid token vendors to name a few.
So... Basically more PvP features.
And token vendors for raids.
More end game in general. A lot more dungeons, and raids."The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
Pandas - just kidding
But you're not wrong...
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Justice31st wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
Seasoned gear & Arenas, MLG, Battlegrounds, open world PvP, Better Raids, BoA gear, raid token vendors to name a few.
So... Basically more PvP features.
And token vendors for raids.
More end game in general. A lot more dungeons, and raids.
I think that might be, because it has a different focus. ESO is about Tamriel and we basically know what will be coming, the rest of Tamriel over time. So this is the focus of the game rather than "end game". And when you look at the empty parts of the map yet, a lot more DLCs will be about this content than about anything else. Has to, if they want to complete it before TES VI will come out. Both could co-exist, but by economical reasons, they should complete it, before TES VI will be there.0 -
Xylphan✭✭✭✭gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »Do NOT put ESO and hardcore in the same sentence. This game is for casuals and was already stated for the future by the lead developer.
It wasn't the lead developer, it was the GAME DIRECTOR... big difference. Matt Firor decides which direction the game will go, the content, etc... so for him to come out and pretty much boldly state that content is shifting to accommodate casual players... it's not just some random lead dev speaking.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Yeah, I've abandoned the game pretty much, although I still voice my opinion on here hoping they'll see reason and give us some good challenging open world content. Hardcore is dead in this game unfortunately. I'd say even "mediumcore" is going away and all that will be left is hello kitty level of difficulty. I really hope the game burns down to the ground soon enough so that it can die a decent death.
I've never understood this mentality, if you don't like the game, fine... if you quit... fine... but there are clearly MILLIONS of us that do enjoy it. But your clear negative obsession with the game just goes beyond my comprehension. So the game didn't cater to you, so now you wish it to die; I would say that ESO is not the one with the problem here.
But read, he plays 10+ hrs Daily and invested $$ most of us have other activities and another game or 2 to play
and what are 500$ dollar anyway - that is not a big amount of money, I have spent more in my first 6 months as a casual player.
Really?
Talk about distorted sense of reality. According to the latest census statistics, I make a lot more money than most people in the US and even I think $500 is a lot of money to spend, especially on a game. That's groceries for a month for a family of 4.
It may not be a lot for me, or for you (count yourself lucky if that's the case). But for most people in the US, $500 is not chump change.1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Justice31st wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
Seasoned gear & Arenas, MLG, Battlegrounds, open world PvP, Better Raids, BoA gear, raid token vendors to name a few.
So... Basically more PvP features.
And token vendors for raids.
More end game in general. A lot more dungeons, and raids.
Well, yeah, it's been out for twelve years. It didn't have all that at the start.
I think it released with like 10 dungeons and 3 raids.
Give ESO time to grow.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »Do NOT put ESO and hardcore in the same sentence. This game is for casuals and was already stated for the future by the lead developer.
It wasn't the lead developer, it was the GAME DIRECTOR... big difference. Matt Firor decides which direction the game will go, the content, etc... so for him to come out and pretty much boldly state that content is shifting to accommodate casual players... it's not just some random lead dev speaking.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Yeah, I've abandoned the game pretty much, although I still voice my opinion on here hoping they'll see reason and give us some good challenging open world content. Hardcore is dead in this game unfortunately. I'd say even "mediumcore" is going away and all that will be left is hello kitty level of difficulty. I really hope the game burns down to the ground soon enough so that it can die a decent death.
I've never understood this mentality, if you don't like the game, fine... if you quit... fine... but there are clearly MILLIONS of us that do enjoy it. But your clear negative obsession with the game just goes beyond my comprehension. So the game didn't cater to you, so now you wish it to die; I would say that ESO is not the one with the problem here.
But read, he plays 10+ hrs Daily and invested $$ most of us have other activities and another game or 2 to play
and what are 500$ dollar anyway - that is not a big amount of money, I have spent more in my first 6 months as a casual player.
Really?
Talk about distorted sense of reality. According to the latest census statistics, I make a lot more money than most people in the US and even I think $500 is a lot of money to spend, especially on a game. That's groceries for a month for a family of 4.
It may not be a lot for me, or for you (count yourself lucky if that's the case). But for most people in the US, $500 is not chump change.
I meant it differently - over the course of time, which that player has been playing the game, it is not that much. But I know quite a good amount of people who have spend similar amount of money on a game in about half a year or even less. Archeage is such an example, there are people who buy those RNG boxes from the cash shop for like 100-200 dollars every month - it is kind of insane, but this type of games are actually catering to this type of player - called whales. They spend thousands of dollars on a game within just a year or two. That is why I said, it is not that much.
Ah, well, I should have put it in a different way - I see that now, it sounds arrogant, but was not meant to be.Edited by Lysette on June 29, 2016 11:46PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
Seasoned gear & Arenas, MLG, Battlegrounds, open world PvP, Better Raids, BoA gear, raid token vendors to name a few.
So... Basically more PvP features.
And token vendors for raids.
More end game in general. A lot more dungeons, and raids.
Well, yeah, it's been out for twelve years. It didn't have all that at the start.
I think it released with like 10 dungeons and 3 raids.
Give ESO time to grow.
I make the same mistake, when I compare some features to EVE - 13 years of development - and I think WoW is nearly as old as well. He has played WoW for long, just like I have played EVE - of course we are convinced of that game, otherwise we would not have played it for that long - and I am still playing EVE - I make the same mistake of comparing it like he did.0 -
Mitoice✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
@ShedsHisTail
The same exact thing ive mentioned at the beginning of this thread.... objectives
in WOW
1. Token based dungeons and raids
rng can be very bad sometimes, anyone that has done and completed VMael and received a perma ring knows what im talking about.
2.Progression of gear and character
Every 3 months, wow gets updated with new improved gear, in pvp and pve, (tier 1, tier 2 etc) which makes you feel powerful, ive been wearing my same ol Julianos and kena set since the birth of Jesuschrist (exageration, since wrothgar, 8 months and no signs of this changing)
3. Lack of difficulty
Even with the crappy combat of wow, it gets more challenging, ESO used to be this way, but the course has been changed.
4. NO toleration to hackers and exploiters
this is killing pvp, basically all exploiters with their infinite ultimate cheat are still roaming the streets of cyro and bragging about it.
1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
@ShedoxI don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
And thats the reason why WOW has been the most played mmo, they found the formula to cater to both, casual and hardcore players alike.
Hardcore players are another group devoted to paying a lot of money on this game, it boggles my mind why their strategy is only for casual gamers.
isnt there a way thisngame can cater to both types of players???
What has WoW done differently?
When I left, the set up was essentially the same.
Easy Casual adventuring/leveling.
Casual 5-Man Dungeons
Medium Difficulty 5-Man Heroic Dungeons
Medium Difficulty Raids
High Difficulty Heroic Raids
PvP
As far as I can tell, ESO has all that. The only real difference being the size of the groups.
So, what does WoW have now that ESO doesn't?
@ShedsHisTail
The same exact thing ive mentioned at the beginning of this thread.... objectives
in WOW
1. Token based dungeons and raids
rng can be very bad sometimes, anyone that has done and completed VMael and received a perma ring knows what im talking about.
2.Progression of gear and character
Every 3 months, wow gets updated with new improved gear, in pvp and pve, (tier 1, tier 2 etc) which makes you feel powerful, ive been wearing my same ol Julianos and kena set since the birth of Jesuschrist (exageration, since wrothgar, 8 months and no signs of this changing)
3. Lack of difficulty
Even with the crappy combat of wow, it gets more challenging, ESO used to be this way, but the course has been changed.
4. NO toleration to hackers and exploiters
this is killing pvp, basically all exploiters with their infinite ultimate cheat are still roaming the streets of cyro and bragging about it.
Personally I'm not a big fan of a lot of those things.
I don't like Seasonal gear. I think it's silly just to release new stuff incrementally with higher stats but no additional requirements other than time-grinding. We're getting new loot with new DLC, if they don't fit your play style, wait for the next one or mix it up a bit. You're only limiting yourself.
Token based loot... I get that one. I understand the desire for it. RNG sucks sometimes. I think the ability to trade BoP gear amongst your group will go a long way toward alleviating some of that grind.
That said, neither of these things help out the "hardcore" crowd. In fact, they do just the opposite.
They just make it easier for casuals to compete. There's no real sense of achievement. Casual players don't have to be good, under those systems, just invest the time, collect the tokens/points, get the gear. It homogenizes the population. Don't get me wrong, I know RNG does this as well; you run the dungeon until your shiny thing drops, I get it. If there were a way to reward -skill- I'd prefer that. But token are not the solution. They just make it so everyone stops running dungeons when they get their McGuffin.
Difficulty is a relative thing and, like I said above, you're not going to see a lot of open-world difficulty. You don't in WoW either. Outside of group content, everything is easy in WoW too.
As to the cheats and hackers situation... That's not really part of this topic. I think we'd do best to avid that here. There's plenty of other threads to cry about injustice there.
Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 30, 2016 12:51AM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
FortheloveofKrist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Justice31st wrote: »
^I agree 100%. I just uninstalled ESO from my system.
Then why are you on here posting 57 times a day??? Go play a game that you like. Maybe EA is developing Trucker 2K16.
4 -
Your only hardcore hope is Pantheon: Rise Of The Fallen. They swear up and down they won't be swayed by anyone trying to alter their course. Hardcore game with strict group content.
This game started on the casual route since Champions became account wide and Veteran ranks got the axe. Still a fun game if you don't want to invest lots of time into one game.
WOW appeals to the hardcore gamers, Final Fantasy too, i just hate WOW graphics and FF combat.
then pay and support the development of Pantheon:rise of the fallen and wait for its public beta if you wanted a true hardcore high fantasy mmo so much
before eso is even released i know its just another modern mmo with an elder scroll theme and thats enough for me to hold on until pantheon rise of the fallen , the everquest reincarnation by the original creator to release! god i can't wait!!Edited by henrycupcakerwb17_ESO on June 30, 2016 1:27AM0 -
gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »Do NOT put ESO and hardcore in the same sentence. This game is for casuals and was already stated for the future by the lead developer.
It wasn't the lead developer, it was the GAME DIRECTOR... big difference. Matt Firor decides which direction the game will go, the content, etc... so for him to come out and pretty much boldly state that content is shifting to accommodate casual players... it's not just some random lead dev speaking.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Yeah, I've abandoned the game pretty much, although I still voice my opinion on here hoping they'll see reason and give us some good challenging open world content. Hardcore is dead in this game unfortunately. I'd say even "mediumcore" is going away and all that will be left is hello kitty level of difficulty. I really hope the game burns down to the ground soon enough so that it can die a decent death.
I've never understood this mentality, if you don't like the game, fine... if you quit... fine... but there are clearly MILLIONS of us that do enjoy it. But your clear negative obsession with the game just goes beyond my comprehension. So the game didn't cater to you, so now you wish it to die; I would say that ESO is not the one with the problem here.
But read, he plays 10+ hrs Daily and invested $$ most of us have other activities and another game or 2 to play
and what are 500$ dollar anyway - that is not a big amount of money, I have spent more in my first 6 months as a casual player.
Really?
Talk about distorted sense of reality. According to the latest census statistics, I make a lot more money than most people in the US and even I think $500 is a lot of money to spend, especially on a game. That's groceries for a month for a family of 4.
It may not be a lot for me, or for you (count yourself lucky if that's the case). But for most people in the US, $500 is not chump change.
lol $500 for a month for a family of 4 for grocery shopping? 4x3x30 , thats 360 meals for $500usd and thats inhuman i think this family will probably end up getting cancer for consuming all those cheap crap drinks & food ( hormone trash meat / artificial addictive stuff / trash soda drinks )
you don't even care enough for your health to shop in whole food do you ?Edited by henrycupcakerwb17_ESO on June 30, 2016 1:34AM0 -
Kalifas✭✭✭
I agree that mmo gaming on the whole as shifted towards accessibility and easy leveling.ShedsHisTail wrote: »I've been a long time mmo player way back to everquest, and reading many of these comments really makes me regret the conclusion I have come to , and that is if you want a decent and challenging MMO, it should not be released on console and that saddens me some what mainly as I now play on console.
Any challenge is looked upon as a barrier and not some thing to over come the very fact some people don't want to group up when some thing is hard to do solo and would prefer that it is nerfed just to suit themselves instead of using what the very idea of an mmo is play with other like minded players. They may as well play a single player RPG with a difficulty slider to suit them
I will be flamed for these comments but thats the way I now have come to see it the way the game is getting easier .....
I don't know that consoles are the problem, so much as the mentality toward gaming in general has shifted.
Games, in general, tend to be easier now than they used to be. Yeah, there are outliers; your Dark Souls and Monster Hunters (which are both largely console games). As gaming has become a more mainstream hobby for more people, games have become increasingly designed to be completed by a more casual audience.
When it comes to MMOs, there's such a competitive market and a certain need to maintain a population. You can't do that by catering exclusively to that niche audience that likes challenging games; there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. So you almost have to make the bulk of your game more friendly to that casual market. You don't want your low level encounters chasing off your player base three days after they buy the game. Instead you allow for Player-controlled challenges (PvP) where the difficulty differs depending on the skill of your opponent, and you add a few more challenging elements at end game for the more dedicated crowd. The hope being that the levelling up and adventuring process will be enough to establish a fan-based in the more casual crowd so that they'll stick around and try the hard stuff.
The days of difficult leveling are over. EQ could get away with it because no one knew any better and it was basically your only option for an MMO of it's kind (1st Person, 3D graphics, etc).
There is a competitive market, but you can be pretty successful with a niche. Just as Steve Vai is one of the premiere guitarist with a cult following and makes good dough. He will never get filthy rich though because his music isn't mainstream. Final Fantasy XI and EQ are the same, hardcore niche and have stuck around for over a decade.
Some, not many developers are realizing that a niche is ok but asking this game to become hardcore when it has clearly shifted towards the casual side is like asking for Justin Bieber to start making 80/90s Metallica music. It ain't happening.An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Smaller DLCs with the reasoning that people are playing more off and on instead of continuously is one way to put it. But the reason can as well lay bit deeper - as in it takes Bethesda longer than expected to develop their 2 new main titles and TES VI will for longer than expected not come out - and ESO has to fill the gap. Don't know if it is that way, but it could be.1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭MuddledMuppet wrote: »A lot of people in this thread remind me of people where everyone but them can see they and their partner of years should just split up and move on, instead they are stuck in a never ending cycle of complaining that their bf/gf/husband/wife/gerbil is no longer the same person they met years ago.
Things/people have capacity for change, if that change no longer suits you, it's probably more productive to give each other a hug , wish 'em the best, and move on.
Or an alternative is to stay stuck in a relationship you hate and qq endlessly about it, 'cos that works, right?
Exactly what I did I didnt like how easy everything was now so I left and am now playing a hardcore russian sandbox mmo I come here to see if there are any signs of changes id like. I guess Im like the ex that checks their exs fb lol.0 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭FortheloveofKrist wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »
^I agree 100%. I just uninstalled ESO from my system.
Then why are you on here posting 57 times a day??? Go play a game that you like. Maybe EA is developing Trucker 2K16.
Because I uninstalled my game? De de dee.Edited by Justice31st on June 30, 2016 8:54AM"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »Justice31st wrote: »Do NOT put ESO and hardcore in the same sentence. This game is for casuals and was already stated for the future by the lead developer.
It wasn't the lead developer, it was the GAME DIRECTOR... big difference. Matt Firor decides which direction the game will go, the content, etc... so for him to come out and pretty much boldly state that content is shifting to accommodate casual players... it's not just some random lead dev speaking.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Yeah, I've abandoned the game pretty much, although I still voice my opinion on here hoping they'll see reason and give us some good challenging open world content. Hardcore is dead in this game unfortunately. I'd say even "mediumcore" is going away and all that will be left is hello kitty level of difficulty. I really hope the game burns down to the ground soon enough so that it can die a decent death.
I've never understood this mentality, if you don't like the game, fine... if you quit... fine... but there are clearly MILLIONS of us that do enjoy it. But your clear negative obsession with the game just goes beyond my comprehension. So the game didn't cater to you, so now you wish it to die; I would say that ESO is not the one with the problem here.
But read, he plays 10+ hrs Daily and invested $$ most of us have other activities and another game or 2 to play
and what are 500$ dollar anyway - that is not a big amount of money, I have spent more in my first 6 months as a casual player.
Really?
Talk about distorted sense of reality. According to the latest census statistics, I make a lot more money than most people in the US and even I think $500 is a lot of money to spend, especially on a game. That's groceries for a month for a family of 4.
It may not be a lot for me, or for you (count yourself lucky if that's the case). But for most people in the US, $500 is not chump change.
lol $500 for a month for a family of 4 for grocery shopping? 4x3x30 , thats 360 meals for $500usd and thats inhuman i think this family will probably end up getting cancer for consuming all those cheap crap drinks & food ( hormone trash meat / artificial addictive stuff / trash soda drinks )
you don't even care enough for your health to shop in whole food do you ?
He might be living in a country where 500$ is a lot ?
I know here In Canada my grocery shopping is around 120-150$ every week for two...Edited by Averya_Teira on June 30, 2016 10:58AM0
