ESO Live: CP Cap Increase AND Racial Passive Changes

ADarklore · June 2016

Zinaroth wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So, I see a lot of posts about costume dying, but nothing mentioned about the fact they're going to be raising CP cap and that they are implementing racial passive changes with the next update. Both of these are MAJOR considering all the discussion threads about them... and they are mentioned in ESO Live today but nobody has brought them up yet. So... I'll be the first.

Well seeing as there's no specific information on either yet there's nothing to discuss really.

Funny, this thread has gone for four pages with nothing to discuss.

Lucius_Aelius · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

All I know is that changing the racials should be about adding things and not replacing them with other things, honestly the entire point I even made my two Argonian characters was for the swim speed (and because they look so innately badass), and if they listen to all the people complaining about that passive (which are many) they're quite likely to replace it with something else I'm afraid, and in the process deprive me of the entire point of my having an Argonian.

With every change you make to the old passives you'll *** off someone who's build depends or at least partially relies upon it to be effective, so the only way they can possibly avoid screwing anyone up is if they don't replace any of the old passives. And while the Race changes are nice, no one should need to change their Race just to make their build viable when the Races they picked (and probably are quite fond of) are viable right now, and if you like your Race you should get to keep your Race.

I liked the idea someone else had of making Racial bonuses more expansive, just add a whole bunch of new ones on top of the old and leave the old ones alone (or even buff them, I thought I heard somewhere a while back that they were thinking of increasing the racial passives' effects at some point to make them more meaningful and relevant, and if they're not doing that then they should).

What if they make it a general bonus to movement speed that applies to sprinting as well as swimming? Would you be as angry then? Change isn't always bad, though I admit im skeptical of how they are going to implement this.

When I said change I meant specifically having something we have now changed into something else such that what was there before isn't there at all anymore, technically what you're describing is an additional passive that run speed is increased in addition to swim speed. If they had both speeds increase by less as a result of having the extra perk, then that's something I wouldn't want, not so much for Argonians' sake but for all passives in general I think that's the wrong move here, lots of people's builds depend on their perks more than I depend on being able to swim fast and if they did that to Argonians I doubt they would stop there, and it would be the wrong way to do it. Add more perks, but keep the ones we have now at least as good as they already are, the only changes should be additional perks and/or the ones we already have buffed.

olsborg · June 2016

I dont mind a cp cap increase, but I am worried about gear tier increase to say, 180 cp, that would mean my hardearned vicecanon and other sets will be *** after just 3 months of use. pfff not a welcome change imo.

Mettaricana · June 2016

Hoping certaim races get love I feel bosmer fell short with a lame 3% max stam I'd like atleast a 5-10%aybe add a poisom dmg buff to make em a stam dk candidate

Nord needs some love aside drom frost resist.

Dunmer I'd love to see a 2% wep spell dmg imcrease.

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

All I know is that changing the racials should be about adding things and not replacing them with other things, honestly the entire point I even made my two Argonian characters was for the swim speed (and because they look so innately badass), and if they listen to all the people complaining about that passive (which are many) they're quite likely to replace it with something else I'm afraid, and in the process deprive me of the entire point of my having an Argonian.

With every change you make to the old passives you'll *** off someone who's build depends or at least partially relies upon it to be effective, so the only way they can possibly avoid screwing anyone up is if they don't replace any of the old passives. And while the Race changes are nice, no one should need to change their Race just to make their build viable when the Races they picked (and probably are quite fond of) are viable right now, and if you like your Race you should get to keep your Race.

I liked the idea someone else had of making Racial bonuses more expansive, just add a whole bunch of new ones on top of the old and leave the old ones alone (or even buff them, I thought I heard somewhere a while back that they were thinking of increasing the racial passives' effects at some point to make them more meaningful and relevant, and if they're not doing that then they should).

What if they make it a general bonus to movement speed that applies to sprinting as well as swimming? Would you be as angry then? Change isn't always bad, though I admit im skeptical of how they are going to implement this.

When I said change I meant specifically having something we have now changed into something else such that what was there before isn't there at all anymore, technically what you're describing is an additional passive that run speed is increased in addition to swim speed. If they had both speeds increase by less as a result of having the extra perk, then that's something I wouldn't want, not so much for Argonians' sake but for all passives in general I think that's the wrong move here, lots of people's builds depend on their perks more than I depend on being able to swim fast and if they did that to Argonians I doubt they would stop there, and it would be the wrong way to do it. Add more perks, but keep the ones we have now at least as good as they already are, the only changes should be additional perks and/or the ones we already have buffed.

I'm more inclined to think they'll attempt to balance races like nords and argonians than strip others. At least I hope so. I'm trying to have faith but we will have to wait and see before we break out the pitchforks. But if they add passives instead of recalibrating some, that will require more skill points be invested than other classes, so that's not ideal either. Fingers crossed they'll pull it off right. We may disagree with some of Wrobel's decisions, but he's not a dumb guy. We thought he gutted Stam sorcs with the surge change but Stam sorcs are in a fairly good place.

Lucius_Aelius · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

All I know is that changing the racials should be about adding things and not replacing them with other things, honestly the entire point I even made my two Argonian characters was for the swim speed (and because they look so innately badass), and if they listen to all the people complaining about that passive (which are many) they're quite likely to replace it with something else I'm afraid, and in the process deprive me of the entire point of my having an Argonian.

With every change you make to the old passives you'll *** off someone who's build depends or at least partially relies upon it to be effective, so the only way they can possibly avoid screwing anyone up is if they don't replace any of the old passives. And while the Race changes are nice, no one should need to change their Race just to make their build viable when the Races they picked (and probably are quite fond of) are viable right now, and if you like your Race you should get to keep your Race.

I liked the idea someone else had of making Racial bonuses more expansive, just add a whole bunch of new ones on top of the old and leave the old ones alone (or even buff them, I thought I heard somewhere a while back that they were thinking of increasing the racial passives' effects at some point to make them more meaningful and relevant, and if they're not doing that then they should).

What if they make it a general bonus to movement speed that applies to sprinting as well as swimming? Would you be as angry then? Change isn't always bad, though I admit im skeptical of how they are going to implement this.

When I said change I meant specifically having something we have now changed into something else such that what was there before isn't there at all anymore, technically what you're describing is an additional passive that run speed is increased in addition to swim speed. If they had both speeds increase by less as a result of having the extra perk, then that's something I wouldn't want, not so much for Argonians' sake but for all passives in general I think that's the wrong move here, lots of people's builds depend on their perks more than I depend on being able to swim fast and if they did that to Argonians I doubt they would stop there, and it would be the wrong way to do it. Add more perks, but keep the ones we have now at least as good as they already are, the only changes should be additional perks and/or the ones we already have buffed.

I'm more inclined to think they'll attempt to balance races like nords and argonians than strip others. At least I hope so. I'm trying to have faith but we will have to wait and see before we break out the pitchforks. But if they add passives instead of recalibrating some, that will require more skill points be invested than other classes, so that's not ideal either. Fingers crossed they'll pull it off right. We may disagree with some of Wrobel's decisions, but he's not a dumb guy. We thought he gutted Stam sorcs with the surge change but Stam sorcs are in a fairly good place.

I meant add an equal number of passives to every race, any lackluster race now can get a little bit more love than the others but everyone would get something.

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

@Lucius_Aelius I'm not home to check, but does every class not have an equal number of passives? I thought the number was always the same but the quality lacked (specifically argonians and nords)

Lucius_Aelius · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Lucius_Aelius I'm not home to check, but does every class not have an equal number of passives? I thought the number was always the same but the quality lacked (specifically argonians and nords)

Yes the number is always the same, it's just the quality that's different between races, so when adding passives comes to mind I always assumed that meant adding an equal number of passives to all races with the most lackluster getting some good ones to match other races, but everything coming out of it with an overall buff and no nerfs.

And I'm not against nerfing when it's necessary, which it often is. I just don't think this case calls for it, there's no harm in having racial bonuses be significant, especially now with Race changes being introduced. If someone really wants to change their Race and get the passives they need for their build they can, but I think we should keep the old passives because many people, if not most, will want to keep their race and depend to some extent on their passives to be viable, and those people should not be forced to change their Race to find better passives when what they have now is already optimized.

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

@Lucius_Aelius I wouldn't get too exercised until we actually see what it is. I would suspect that they can make some of the lower tier races good by just tweaking existing passives. Like adding sprint speed to argonians and increasing their health passive. For nords I think they could add Magicka absorption to the resistance passive so that it absorbs a % of Magicka based in damage taken or something.

Lucius_Aelius · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Lucius_Aelius I wouldn't get too exercised until we actually see what it is. I would suspect that they can make some of the lower tier races good by just tweaking existing passives. Like adding sprint speed to argonians and increasing their health passive. For nords I think they could add Magicka absorption to the resistance passive so that it absorbs a % of Magicka based in damage taken or something.

I'm not worked up in the least, just stating my opinion on the matter such as it is, in case it's worth anything to other people or to ZOS when discussions are being had about what changes to make. Discussing hypotheticals can only go so far, but it at least gives ZOS an idea of their players' mindset as they do what they do, and gives players the chance to talk and find out where they all stand on the matter.

Justice31st · June 2016

ZOS is changing the racial passives again so people who min/max are forced to pay for the racial change in the crown store.

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

@Lucius_Aelius the worked up part was directed at you but the general tone of some folks. If they do screw up the passives I'll be right there yelling with everyone else, but I just can't get exercised over speculation. As scary as this sounds, we have to have faith in Wrobel...

Junkogen · June 2016

When they nerfed Argonians everyone was silent. Now all the racials are on the table and people are up in arms. Where were you then?

Travestynox · June 2016

By racial passive changes, I really hope they mean to nerf them. Racial passives really shouldn't matter as much as they currently do.
Ideally IMO there shouldn't even be racial passives that contribute to meta builds, ie to stamina, magicka or health, racial passives should rather be traits to give 'non combat' relevant bonuses.
As much as I'd like this to be the case, sadly I don't think ZOS will go this way.
But by changes I at least hope they will nerf the current percentage bonuses in order to make the current gap between the races a lot smaller.

A little off topic, but I really hope they will nerf the bonuses from CPs aswell. They contribute to a level of powercreep which is unsustainable even now, not to mention when CP cap is increased.

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

Travestynox wrote: »

By racial passive changes, I really hope they mean to nerf them. Racial passives really shouldn't matter as much as they currently do.
Ideally IMO there shouldn't even be racial passives that contribute to meta builds, ie to stamina, magicka or health, racial passives should rather be traits to give 'non combat' relevant bonuses.
As much as I'd like this to be the case, sadly I don't think ZOS will go this way.
But by changes I at least hope they will nerf the current percentage bonuses in order to make the current gap between the races a lot smaller.

A little off topic, but I really hope they will nerf the bonuses from CPs aswell. They contribute to a level of powercreep which is unsustainable even now, not to mention when CP cap is increased.

Not going to get into the CP discussion as it is agree to disagree.

But in regards to your desire to nerf the races, what about Imperials? People purchased the imperial upgrade for the sake of playing imperials, and if those passives are nerfed then people will be well within their rights to complain. If they nerf every classes passives except imperial, wouldn't that be pay to win?...

Xathonn · June 2016

I'd like to see the Argonian bonus that makes you take more incoming healing would also effect outgoing healing

Travestynox · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Travestynox wrote: »

By racial passive changes, I really hope they mean to nerf them. Racial passives really shouldn't matter as much as they currently do.
Ideally IMO there shouldn't even be racial passives that contribute to meta builds, ie to stamina, magicka or health, racial passives should rather be traits to give 'non combat' relevant bonuses.
As much as I'd like this to be the case, sadly I don't think ZOS will go this way.
But by changes I at least hope they will nerf the current percentage bonuses in order to make the current gap between the races a lot smaller.

A little off topic, but I really hope they will nerf the bonuses from CPs aswell. They contribute to a level of powercreep which is unsustainable even now, not to mention when CP cap is increased.

Not going to get into the CP discussion as it is agree to disagree.

But in regards to your desire to nerf the races, what about Imperials? People purchased the imperial upgrade for the sake of playing imperials, and if those passives are nerfed then people will be well within their rights to complain. If they nerf every classes passives except imperial, wouldn't that be pay to win?...

Fair point. But if all races were to be scaled, I dont see how players who purchased the imperial edition would have much reason to complain.
They still have their other bonuses.

I realise this is a weaker argument, but imperial racial bonuses aren't that important IMO in meta builds which are mostly about dealing damage.

Btw, I do have the imperial edition and two if my mains are imperials, both magicka users, none of them are min/max ofcourse, I chose imperial race for them because it fits my playstyle.

Arato · June 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

IMO, every character should get a free racechange if there are sweeping nerfs that ruin characters.

Along with a free namechange, some people have RP names that are only appropriate to their current race.

Travestynox · June 2016

Can't edit my post on my phone, so I'll add that if racial oassives were to be nerfed or removed, the Imperial edition could maybe get an additional (minor?) racial trait as a bonus for paying more for the game.

Arthmoor · June 2016

Don't take away my swim bonus, I rather like it, useful for escaping guards by water :P

DocFrost72 · June 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

They'll probably just remove stat bonuses altogether and make all the racials like the leveling bonuses to certain weapon or armor types.

That would be flat out awful and lore-unfriendly.

Game mechanic =/= lore to me, at least. Ie, breton will always have superior magicka control in lore, but in an MMO balance is important too. Where you cannot see that my Breton has orc passives, I would argue that it doesn't touch lore.

Peekachu99 · June 2016

Xael wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

The CP cap raise is really coming, but don't get your hopes up too high - it's a very small raise.

@ZOS_KaiSchober then what is the point at all? Even raising the cap by 51 (which is the number I heard) only gives 17 per section. This is damn near worthless. We still can't have 2 lines at 100; even that would require a 99 bump minimum.

The point is to not trivialize the game even further, by allowing dos to burn through even more mechanics or to decimated other players even faster in PVP. They're giving us something over the cap, so just be happy with that. The genie is out of the bottle with CP progression and if they could reverse it, I'm sure they they would. There were far too many potential points in the first place. Looking at the whole spectrum of what was originally planned is like staring at a recipe for chaos.

jobra888 · June 2016

Why not just renaming race bonuses into something else and make them free to choose like mundus stones;

or even better split race bonuses into a fix part like eg. argonian swim speed and a magicka/stam/health bonus that is free to choose .. could be called bloodline then or sth else

and yeah .. pls no cp 180 armor tier

notimetocare · June 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

Oh great, I'll never catch that damn CP cap....

Well... you will need less so for some of your cp after the increase on cap lol

notimetocare · June 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I would like to see a complete overhaul on racial balance.

I dislike how only Khajiits and Woodelfs have the stealthy passive. Its not like thief's and assassin's did not exist in the Daggerfall Covenant and Ebonheart Pact. Not every Nord is a huge clumsy professional body builder is what im saying, you could have female nords who are very stealthy. Not every Orc is a brute either.

For a game that sponsor's the saying "play how you want to play" , it's really an understatement when you are pigeonholed into specific races for that optimal passive setup.

There should be an option to either adopt another race's passive's or select specific passives at the start of character creation (would require a complete rework of the passive system). All im asking is for arch-types before you select a race like: stealth/warrior/mage/tank/healer/potion drinker Kappa/sustained magicka/sustained stamina/etc

Clearly you do not know why racial pasives are as they are lol

notimetocare · June 2016

sAnn92 wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

The CP cap raise is really coming, but don't get your hopes up too high - it's a very small raise.

51 is just fine Kai, we don't really want to aggreviate the power creep curve until we have some kind of system that allows us to scale the content's difficulty to our needs. Like the Torment I - VI system on Diablo III

Currently... it's 1-10 and going to be up to 13 I believe

americansteel · June 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Please no nerfs to any racial passives!

Just buffs to Argonians, Nords and Orcs

Nord's are fine they don't need any buffs and I would say the same about ORcs their pretty good right now as well.Especially onna Stam Sorc Orc Stan Sorcs are like sonic on the battlefield.

speak for yourself.

by lore Nords are heavy armor greatsword wielding masters of martial arts ESO passives ignores this. Nords are warriors we need passives to reflect to reflect that

Ep1kMalware · June 2016

radiostar wrote: »

Yes, that's why they should increase gear too. Otherwise you just get too far ahead of the game.

I think they're just testing the waters to see how balance is affected.

Arato · June 2016

radiostar wrote: »

Yes, that's why they should increase gear too. Otherwise you just get too far ahead of the game.

I really hope not. as bad as VR16 gear is to make if they continue on that path it'll take thousands of materials to make each piece, not fun.

Reykice · June 2016

I hope they don`t change the races to the point where what is now best for magicka or stamina no longer applies, that is blatant pay to win and quite lame if they give breton a 5% magic damage or stuff like that.

Because that would only be done so people buy their race change pack... and its veeeery lame to add a convenience item then change the game to nudge everyone towards that item especially when its a thing like racial skills that are very much not convenience but power aka it enters in the pay to be better category.

So i hope they stay away from that... racials should never be change to be honest or IF they are it should come with a free race change for everyone. Because otherwise you are just doing it so people buy your race change token and its just a blatant cash grab.