Maintenance for the week of March 30:
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• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 1, 1:00PM EDT (17:00 UTC) - 5:00PM EDT (21:00 UTC)
ESO Plus Subscribers - yes everyone we do pay for things
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.Edited by Lysette on June 25, 2016 3:43PM0 -
Towerdragon✭✭✭
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
Holy cow that is crazy0 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
So you are comparing that craziness with an ESO subscription. Yeah that makes sense.Edited by clayandaudrey_ESO on June 25, 2016 3:51PM1 -
Lightninvash✭✭✭✭✭Lightninvash wrote: »This is what I believe the OP means about sub based makes more revenue. After running through the numbers(not exact but very close) I have come up with this. For the subscription based if you just did that bought no crowns you would spend around $105.00 USD (before taxes) if you spent the 6.3 aka 7 months required to sub to gain all of the dlcs and only buying the dlc. Now if you purchase the 5500 crown pack(correct me if I am wrong) last time I bought one it was $44.99(but I will just incase round it up to $50) to buy 2 sets of crown packs at $50 you will spend $100 USD and earn 11,000 crowns.
All the dlc Imperial city=2500 crowns, orisinium=3000 crowns, thieves guild=2000 crowns, and DB=2000 crowns total up to 9500 crowns. when you buy the 5500 crown pack 2x you will spend $100 USD to get all the dlc you will have 1100 crowns and have a spare 1500 crowns to use on whatever you like. When you buy a sub for 7 months(provided you don't buy anything with crowns except dlc) you will earn 10500 crowns and have a spare 1000 crowns. The sub makes you pay a little more and you get less crowns than buying the dlc outright. It also takes time.
So in that aspect yes subbing makes more money than buying the dlc outright. However, some people who buy the dlc via crowns wait for deals/sales on the crown packs. Then there are the other people who like myself want more than just the dlc and buy the crowns for them. it is all speculation as to who spends more the subscribers or the people who buy the dlc outright.
I think this is what the OP meant by eso+ members keep the game going. But then again maybe I am the only one who would actually go and calculate it all and put this together.
That calculation is wrong - a subscriber has no need to buy the DLCs - so if you compare it, you have to add that, what a non-subscriber has to pay for DLCs again because to be equal to a subscriber, he needs that same amount of crowns, which he spent on DLC to spend on other content, which the subscriber has - and it will not be cheaper then.
A non-subscriber needs actually:
9500 crowns to get the DLCs
9000 crowns to have the same spent on other things like a subscriber
so you have to compare 18500 crowns to 66€ for a 6-month sub - in a sale with 40% off those crowns would cost 70.63€ - on a sale that is - it is more even then and it does not give the non-subscriber the same, because all the exclusive extras are subscription only.
While I can see what you mean @Lysette, a subscriber does have access to the dlc. However, if the eso+ lapses they no longer have that dlc. So most of the subscribers would be smart to purchase the DLC so they wouldn't lose access to it.
The comparison wasn't about how an eso+ member has the dlc and so doesn't need to use the crowns for it. It was solely about purchasing the dlc via a subscription vs outright via crown store. If you calculate it as the subscriber has the dlc so they do not need to buy the dlc if/when the sub ends they need to purchase the crowns for the dlc and as I have shown it is cheaper to buy outright than to sub for crowns. So they would pay more for the crowns they spend on the crown store and have to buy the dlc if they decided to cancel sub. Because sometimes money can get tight in between paychecks or if you have a sick day or 2 as I'm sure most have experienced.
So sometimes keeping a constant sub can be difficult. So when it lapses you "need" the dlc to keep enjoying the things you were doing. This is why I had said it is all speculation because different people see it in other ways. Some have enough money that keeping a constant sub is no issue regardless of what happens, in that scenario they have it made so they can have the dlc and never have to worry about buying the dlcs. Some may have a lesser amount to spend per month and those people may sub for crowns so they can access the dlc and purchase them when they accumulate enough crowns.
It isn't my math that is incorrect it is the difference in how we looked at it. Which is quite fine either way you look at it we are all supporting the game and that's fine by me
EDIT: my late replies are due to being at work. I try to reply in between my work projects and other misc. things required of me at work.Edited by Lightninvash on June 25, 2016 3:54PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
So yo I ate comparing that craziness with an ESO subscription. Yeah that makes sense.
I just showed with it, that it is not unusual at all to get exclusive premium services when you pay extra. Now tell me how many people complain in the economy class, that they cannot have the same service as business class and first class passengers. But in ESO they do, strangely enough. You get exclusive features just if you are willing to pay the price of those - period.0 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
So yo I ate comparing that craziness with an ESO subscription. Yeah that makes sense.
I just showed with it, that it is not unusual at all to get exclusive premium services when you pay extra. Now tell me how many people complain in the economy class, that they cannot have the same service as business class and first class passengers. But in ESO they do, strangely enough. You get exclusive features just if you are willing to pay the price of those - period.
But the example you showed is unusual. It is on the Extreme end of things which is where you seem to always want to take things in trying to justify eso+.
Personally I think they should have stuck to the sub model and charged 39.99 to 59.99 USD for each dlc.Edited by clayandaudrey_ESO on June 25, 2016 3:56PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightninvash wrote: »Lightninvash wrote: »This is what I believe the OP means about sub based makes more revenue. After running through the numbers(not exact but very close) I have come up with this. For the subscription based if you just did that bought no crowns you would spend around $105.00 USD (before taxes) if you spent the 6.3 aka 7 months required to sub to gain all of the dlcs and only buying the dlc. Now if you purchase the 5500 crown pack(correct me if I am wrong) last time I bought one it was $44.99(but I will just incase round it up to $50) to buy 2 sets of crown packs at $50 you will spend $100 USD and earn 11,000 crowns.
All the dlc Imperial city=2500 crowns, orisinium=3000 crowns, thieves guild=2000 crowns, and DB=2000 crowns total up to 9500 crowns. when you buy the 5500 crown pack 2x you will spend $100 USD to get all the dlc you will have 1100 crowns and have a spare 1500 crowns to use on whatever you like. When you buy a sub for 7 months(provided you don't buy anything with crowns except dlc) you will earn 10500 crowns and have a spare 1000 crowns. The sub makes you pay a little more and you get less crowns than buying the dlc outright. It also takes time.
So in that aspect yes subbing makes more money than buying the dlc outright. However, some people who buy the dlc via crowns wait for deals/sales on the crown packs. Then there are the other people who like myself want more than just the dlc and buy the crowns for them. it is all speculation as to who spends more the subscribers or the people who buy the dlc outright.
I think this is what the OP meant by eso+ members keep the game going. But then again maybe I am the only one who would actually go and calculate it all and put this together.
That calculation is wrong - a subscriber has no need to buy the DLCs - so if you compare it, you have to add that, what a non-subscriber has to pay for DLCs again because to be equal to a subscriber, he needs that same amount of crowns, which he spent on DLC to spend on other content, which the subscriber has - and it will not be cheaper then.
A non-subscriber needs actually:
9500 crowns to get the DLCs
9000 crowns to have the same spent on other things like a subscriber
so you have to compare 18500 crowns to 66€ for a 6-month sub - in a sale with 40% off those crowns would cost 70.63€ - on a sale that is - it is more even then and it does not give the non-subscriber the same, because all the exclusive extras are subscription only.
While I can see what you mean @Lysette, a subscriber does have access to the dlc. However, if the eso+ lapses they no longer have that dlc. So most of the subscribers would be smart to purchase the DLC so they wouldn't lose access to it.
The comparison wasn't about how an eso+ member has the dlc and so doesn't need to use the crowns for it. It was solely about purchasing the dlc via a subscription vs outright via crown store. If you calculate it as the subscriber has the dlc so they do not need to buy the dlc if/when the sub ends they need to purchase the crowns for the dlc and as I have shown it is cheaper to buy outright than to sub for crowns. So they would pay more for the crowns they spend on the crown store and have to buy the dlc if they decided to cancel sub. Because sometimes money can get tight in between paychecks or if you have a sick day or 2 as I'm sure most have experienced.
So sometimes keeping a constant sub can be difficult. So when it lapses you "need" the dlc to keep enjoying the things you were doing. This is why I had said it is all speculation because different people see it in other ways. Some have enough money that keeping a constant sub is no issue regardless of what happens, in that scenario they have it made so they can have the dlc and never have to worry about buying the dlcs. Some may have a lesser amount to spend per month and those people may sub for crowns so they can access the dlc and purchase them when they accumulate enough crowns.
It isn't my math that is incorrect it is the difference in how we looked at it. Which is quite fine either way you look at it we are all supporting the game and that's fine by me
See, seen from my point of view, to buy the DLCs with the crowns from ESO+ is paying double for the same - seriously, if someone does not have those 50 cents per day, to continue subscribing, he should probably not play games in the first place but better get his life in order. An exception are countries of course, where the subscription price is really expensive for them.0 -
Kalifas✭✭✭
That is a cool video. I am not saying you are wrong to feel how you feel about the subscription service.
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
That video reinforces my point though. It is a one time payment and one way, just like buying a convenience pack off a DLC would be. It would reinforce the sub argument if it was 23,000 US a month.
The way that would apply now is:
The sub gets you all the major amenities but when you go broke and can't pay you no gettie those amenities any longer.
As a crown buyer you don't get to buy the best amenity and the amenities you can buy are limited and have to be repurchased like a coca cola.
Which clearly says "I love you for your wallet and don't care about your experience".
An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!0 -
CherryCake✭✭✭✭✭
✭EstelioVeleth wrote: »EstelioVeleth wrote: »Hey ESO plus subscribers, the rest of us pays for things too .......
maybe even more than you do, yet in your eyes we are still everything that is wrong with the game and dont deserve ***
Yes. In my eyes you are. ZOS have to make money to keep the game running - that's a given. You choose to validate a model that is essentially a monopolistic market of pixels and fluff, episodic content doled out slowly and in tiny doses and that has no connection whatsoever with the cost of developing and maintaining the game. It's a bottomless pit and you can be sure they're going to try and milk every single penny they can out of you with "timed exclusives" and "collector's edition DLC".
I would much rather have a mandatory fixed subscription model where you know exactly how much you're paying for the game and everyone who plays (and therefore pays) gets access to all the content, be it a zone, a dungeon, a trial or just cosmetic stuff.
How...how do you even think? If you pay lets say 200 dollars per year, and I pay 200 too, how are YOUR money spent more valid than mine? You can also unsub at any time, just like I can stop buying crowns at any time, why is your money more valuable? Maybe you subs have to get off your high horses and think that you are the only ones keeping the game up.
For each person spending $200/year in crowns, how many freeloaders are there who just play the base game and spend nothing? So if you and I are spending that much, how much of it is subsidising other players? Guess what, mandatory subs would get no freeloaders.
In addition, microtransaction-based games invariably shift the focus of development towards filling the store with as much fluff as possible. In the case of ESO, it shows. Compare Craglorn/IC (development was underway before the switch to the store model) with TG/DB (developed after said switch).
I'm not saying your money is less valid or that you're less supportive of the game. I'm saying you're validating a model that all things considered hurt the game rather than help it.
But then why not stop all of this and go back to making the game subscription based for everybody? Just like FF14. Like this its true there will always be freeloaders, but those are also the people that wont play more than a few weeks, the people that ZOS actually said they want in an interview! I doubt that people that dont just play casualy wouldnt support the game constantly with crowns as well, heck I dont even play as much as I used to, and I am still buying crowns and I dont even look out for buying them on a discount.
So ZOS...why not make this game subscription based and stop the hatred between your costumers? Or do you like seeing these things on the forums? And if you do make this game subscription based, then please at least make the game work and stop throwing people out of the servers, the lag and all the other 100 problems that dont actually give anybody any reason to sub no matter how many cosmetical things you include.I like sweetrolls and I cannot lie0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
So yo I ate comparing that craziness with an ESO subscription. Yeah that makes sense.
I just showed with it, that it is not unusual at all to get exclusive premium services when you pay extra. Now tell me how many people complain in the economy class, that they cannot have the same service as business class and first class passengers. But in ESO they do, strangely enough. You get exclusive features just if you are willing to pay the price of those - period.
But the example you showed is unusual. It is on the Extreme end of things which is where you seem to always want to take things in trying to justify eso+.
Personally I think they should have stuck to the sub model and charged 39.99 to 59.99 USD for each dlc.
Nah, if subscription only, I prefer it like it is in EVE online - all included - just cosmetic stuff is extra in the cash shop but even that can be obtained with ingame currency. EVE is maybe an exception, because even the subscription can be obtained with ingame currency. Well this is not for newbies, they cannot really get this for free - but me for example, I did not play that much, but i made nevertheless 60 plex in the last 3 month - so I have 5 years of subscription for free.Edited by Lysette on June 25, 2016 4:08PM2 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
So yo I ate comparing that craziness with an ESO subscription. Yeah that makes sense.
I just showed with it, that it is not unusual at all to get exclusive premium services when you pay extra. Now tell me how many people complain in the economy class, that they cannot have the same service as business class and first class passengers. But in ESO they do, strangely enough. You get exclusive features just if you are willing to pay the price of those - period.
But the example you showed is unusual. It is on the Extreme end of things which is where you seem to always want to take things in trying to justify eso+.
Personally I think they should have stuck to the sub model and charged 39.99 to 59.99 USD for each dlc.
Nah, if subscription only, I prefer it like it is in EVE online - all included - just cosmetic stuff is extra in the cash shop but even that can be obtained with ingame currency. EVE is maybe an exception, because even the subscription can be obtained with ingame currency. Well this is not for newbies, they cannot really get this for free - but me for example, I did not play that much, but i made nevertheless 60 plex in the last 3 month - so I have 5 years of subscription for free.
Nah I want development money from the DLCs.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
So yo I ate comparing that craziness with an ESO subscription. Yeah that makes sense.
I just showed with it, that it is not unusual at all to get exclusive premium services when you pay extra. Now tell me how many people complain in the economy class, that they cannot have the same service as business class and first class passengers. But in ESO they do, strangely enough. You get exclusive features just if you are willing to pay the price of those - period.
But the example you showed is unusual. It is on the Extreme end of things which is where you seem to always want to take things in trying to justify eso+.
Personally I think they should have stuck to the sub model and charged 39.99 to 59.99 USD for each dlc.
Nah, if subscription only, I prefer it like it is in EVE online - all included - just cosmetic stuff is extra in the cash shop but even that can be obtained with ingame currency. EVE is maybe an exception, because even the subscription can be obtained with ingame currency. Well this is not for newbies, they cannot really get this for free - but me for example, I did not play that much, but i made nevertheless 60 plex in the last 3 month - so I have 5 years of subscription for free.
Nah I want development money from the DLCs.
Well, some other player had to buy those PLEX from CCP, so the company made the money - it is just free for me, but it was not free for that player who bought the PLEX from CCP - he has now my ingame money, and I have his plex. That is how this works. But what better purpose is there if I have to invest about a billion isk in average every day - I have to go for asset which is expensive - like PLEX. And CCP is quite well off, the CEO said at fanfest this year, that the company can pretty much guarantee now to fulfill their slogan "EVE forever".Edited by Lysette on June 25, 2016 4:19PM1 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭EstelioVeleth wrote: »Hey ESO plus subscribers, the rest of us pays for things too ....... maybe even more than you do, yet in your eyes we are still everything that is wrong with the game and dont deserve ***
Nah, you don't.0 -
CherryCake✭✭✭✭✭
✭EstelioVeleth wrote: »Hey ESO plus subscribers, the rest of us pays for things too ....... maybe even more than you do, yet in your eyes we are still everything that is wrong with the game and dont deserve ***
Nah, you don't.
Good to know, ZOS thinks the same as you as we see...
Basically you are telling me that by paying the same amount of money...your money helps the game and mine doesnt? Do you even logic?Edited by CherryCake on June 25, 2016 4:18PMI like sweetrolls and I cannot lie0 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
So yo I ate comparing that craziness with an ESO subscription. Yeah that makes sense.
I just showed with it, that it is not unusual at all to get exclusive premium services when you pay extra. Now tell me how many people complain in the economy class, that they cannot have the same service as business class and first class passengers. But in ESO they do, strangely enough. You get exclusive features just if you are willing to pay the price of those - period.
But the example you showed is unusual. It is on the Extreme end of things which is where you seem to always want to take things in trying to justify eso+.
Personally I think they should have stuck to the sub model and charged 39.99 to 59.99 USD for each dlc.
Nah, if subscription only, I prefer it like it is in EVE online - all included - just cosmetic stuff is extra in the cash shop but even that can be obtained with ingame currency. EVE is maybe an exception, because even the subscription can be obtained with ingame currency. Well this is not for newbies, they cannot really get this for free - but me for example, I did not play that much, but i made nevertheless 60 plex in the last 3 month - so I have 5 years of subscription for free.
Nah I want development money from the DLCs.
Well, some other player had to buy those PLEX from CCP, so the company made the money - it is just free for me, but it was not free for that player who bought the PLEX from CCP - he has now my ingame money, and I have his plex. That is how this works. But what better purpose is there if I have to invest about a billion isk in average every day - I have to go for asset which is expensive - like PLEX. And CCP is quite well off, the CEO said at fanfest this year, that the company can pretty much guarantee now to fulfill their slogan "EVE forever".
Not sure why you keep talking about EVE.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »
First class gets special small perks and prioritized seating. Not their own plane with exclusive goods and infinite carry on space. And common passengers on another airplane going to a different destination with no access to exclusive goods for a premium.
There is no dilemma. There would be no 7 million players and growing if the game was sub only. They tried that song and dance and failed. Start locking more and more things behind the subscription and unless this game starts getting oodles of content, not 10 hour DLC with passives, and way more stability, well the dilemma could resurface. They expected people to subscribe the first time and that didn't pan out.Transairion wrote: »DannyLV702 wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.
Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?
You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".
Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.
Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.
And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.
I am sure people aren't asking for a free meal here. They just want to be able to buy major features as a convenience pack 20-40 bucks and have infinite access to those features. Not this vending machine that gives one time bonuses and poof, disappear. The crafting bags and infinite dyes are not minor features even though they are cosmetic or convenience. The infinite part makes them a major feature. A small perk would be 10-20 more slots for crafting or 10-20 more slots for dyes.
it is an exclusive premium feature - for those "flying first class" - to compare it with airlines - those not flying first class, will not get this service - it is that simple.
have a look at what Etihad offers - just that you get an idea what first class is likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OUUDzjFuQ
ticket price - one way - 20-23,000 US$ -. in case you do not know Etihad, it is the airline of Abu Dhabi. The residence is normally sold out on flights from and to Abu Dhabi - it is very popular. it is not just prioritized seating, you get a 3 room cabin - with separate bed room and shower, butler service, limo service to and from the airport and so on - that are not small perks.
So yo I ate comparing that craziness with an ESO subscription. Yeah that makes sense.
I just showed with it, that it is not unusual at all to get exclusive premium services when you pay extra. Now tell me how many people complain in the economy class, that they cannot have the same service as business class and first class passengers. But in ESO they do, strangely enough. You get exclusive features just if you are willing to pay the price of those - period.
But the example you showed is unusual. It is on the Extreme end of things which is where you seem to always want to take things in trying to justify eso+.
Personally I think they should have stuck to the sub model and charged 39.99 to 59.99 USD for each dlc.
Nah, if subscription only, I prefer it like it is in EVE online - all included - just cosmetic stuff is extra in the cash shop but even that can be obtained with ingame currency. EVE is maybe an exception, because even the subscription can be obtained with ingame currency. Well this is not for newbies, they cannot really get this for free - but me for example, I did not play that much, but i made nevertheless 60 plex in the last 3 month - so I have 5 years of subscription for free.
Nah I want development money from the DLCs.
Well, some other player had to buy those PLEX from CCP, so the company made the money - it is just free for me, but it was not free for that player who bought the PLEX from CCP - he has now my ingame money, and I have his plex. That is how this works. But what better purpose is there if I have to invest about a billion isk in average every day - I have to go for asset which is expensive - like PLEX. And CCP is quite well off, the CEO said at fanfest this year, that the company can pretty much guarantee now to fulfill their slogan "EVE forever".
Not sure why you keep talking about EVE.
It was part of a reply about a subscription only model compared to how it currently is in ESO - so it was somewhat on topic.Edited by Lysette on June 25, 2016 4:22PM1 -
rootimus✭✭✭✭✭The whole subscriber vs non-subscriber thing has to be one of the biggest non-issues with this game.Transairion wrote: »Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
We have Moore's Law, Sod's Law and Godwin's Law. Is there another one about forum users making up statistics and then not even standing by them by the end of the second sentence?
Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |1 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The whole subscriber vs non-subscriber thing has to be one of the biggest non-issues with this game.Transairion wrote: »Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
We have Moore's Law, Sod's Law and Godwin's Law. Is there another one about forum users making up statistics and then not even standing by them by the end of the second sentence?
The Bulls hit law?2 -
Tekyn✭✭✭I'm a subscriber, and I've always subbed during the times I'm actually playing. If I find myself not logging in for a few weeks in a row I'll unsub.
That being said, to call the crafting bags just an optional perk is a gross misrepresentation of the actual in game experience. The sheer time saving that it brings is insane, not to mention all of the gold a new player will save on immediate inventory/bank upgrades. On top of that, someone with the crafting bag is automatically better off as a crafter for sheer volume of mats gathered. I've turned on autoloot for the first time since the game came out. I could feed an army with all the provisioning mats I have rolling in now. I pick up nodes I don't even need because I have a black hole to toss it all in.
If the crafting bag was available any other way I would agree with the sentiment. Doesn't need to be free, but there should most definitely be a way to unlock it separately in the crown store. Just because people aren't subbed doesn't mean they're not supporting the game through the crown store.-- Khajiit like to sneak --3 -
rootimus✭✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »The whole subscriber vs non-subscriber thing has to be one of the biggest non-issues with this game.Transairion wrote: »Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.
We have Moore's Law, Sod's Law and Godwin's Law. Is there another one about forum users making up statistics and then not even standing by them by the end of the second sentence?
The Bulls hit law?
Sir, I like the cut of your jib.Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm a subscriber, and I've always subbed during the times I'm actually playing. If I find myself not logging in for a few weeks in a row I'll unsub.
That being said, to call the crafting bags just an optional perk is a gross misrepresentation of the actual in game experience. The sheer time saving that it brings is insane, not to mention all of the gold a new player will save on immediate inventory/bank upgrades. On top of that, someone with the crafting bag is automatically better off as a crafter for sheer volume of mats gathered. I've turned on autoloot for the first time since the game came out. I could feed an army with all the provisioning mats I have rolling in now. I pick up nodes I don't even need because I have a black hole to toss it all in.
If the crafting bag was available any other way I would agree with the sentiment. Doesn't need to be free, but there should most definitely be a way to unlock it separately in the crown store. Just because people aren't subbed doesn't mean they're not supporting the game through the crown store.
Well, at least someone who can appreciate the value of the crafting bag like I do.0 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭I thought people subscribed for the free access to dlc the free crowns and the xp boost and that the bag and dyes were new features that had nothing to do with subs until zos chose to make them sub only which just seems like an attempt to get more subscribers then anything else(like giving more stuff to current subscribers).
personally I don't subscribe but also have no interest in the craft bag or costume dyes(because to me the costumes look terrible anyway) so I don't care and am not biased either way but your post seems fairly condescending to non-subscribers so it sounds like your on a "high horse"(as you put it) as well, no offence or anything intended
the xp boost is honestly ignorable, the free access to DLC is nice but if we dont pay sub then we lose it. And the crowns once again nice but they vanish quickly. But in all honesty i grow tired of these threads, people acting entitled on both ends. i think eso+ members need more perks seeing how the DLC and XP one is minimal. the crafting bag was a nice edition and the dye changes will be nice as well. If you want to redye costumes over and over then by all means be a eso+ member, if not then buy it in crowns. I do not however believe that a crafting bag should be sold in the store, i DO how ever think the cost of training manuals and expansions need to be lowered.
If you want to buy eso+ then buy it, if not then don't. Crowns and ESO+ both support the game and what most do not understand is those with ESO+ tend to buy crowns as well. heck i personally buy 100-300 a month in crowns because well, i have the income and i love the game. I have been a supporter since beta.Edited by jircris11 on June 25, 2016 4:39PMIGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer0 -
Towerdragon✭✭✭
I don't have a problem with it being unlocked in the crown store just price it accordingly 5000 to 10,000 crownsEdited by Towerdragon on June 25, 2016 4:32PM2 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pretty sure I saw that the non-subscribers could gain access to the dyes. So Im unsure what they ****ing is about. But apparently Subscribers should just flush their money down the toilet because non-subscribers dont think they deserve anything.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Towerdragon wrote: »I'm a subscriber, and I've always subbed during the times I'm actually playing. If I find myself not logging in for a few weeks in a row I'll unsub.
That being said, to call the crafting bags just an optional perk is a gross misrepresentation of the actual in game experience. The sheer time saving that it brings is insane, not to mention all of the gold a new player will save on immediate inventory/bank upgrades. On top of that, someone with the crafting bag is automatically better off as a crafter for sheer volume of mats gathered. I've turned on autoloot for the first time since the game came out. I could feed an army with all the provisioning mats I have rolling in now. I pick up nodes I don't even need because I have a black hole to toss it all in.
If the crafting bag was available any other way I would agree with the sentiment. Doesn't need to be free, but there should most definitely be a way to unlock it separately in the crown store. Just because people aren't subbed doesn't mean they're not supporting the game through the crown store.
Well, at least someone who can appreciate the value of the crafting bag like I do.
I don't have a problem with it being unlocked in the crown store just price it accordingly 5000 to 10,000 crowns
I can fully agree with that.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Pretty sure I saw that the non-subscribers could gain access to the dyes. So Im unsure what they ****ing is about. But apparently Subscribers should just flush their money down the toilet because non-subscribers dont think they deserve anything.
for non-subscribers it will be a limited set of "dye stamps" with preset color schemes and they are consumables. Every change will consume one of such items.0 -
Towerdragon✭✭✭Towerdragon wrote: »I'm a subscriber, and I've always subbed during the times I'm actually playing. If I find myself not logging in for a few weeks in a row I'll unsub.
That being said, to call the crafting bags just an optional perk is a gross misrepresentation of the actual in game experience. The sheer time saving that it brings is insane, not to mention all of the gold a new player will save on immediate inventory/bank upgrades. On top of that, someone with the crafting bag is automatically better off as a crafter for sheer volume of mats gathered. I've turned on autoloot for the first time since the game came out. I could feed an army with all the provisioning mats I have rolling in now. I pick up nodes I don't even need because I have a black hole to toss it all in.
If the crafting bag was available any other way I would agree with the sentiment. Doesn't need to be free, but there should most definitely be a way to unlock it separately in the crown store. Just because people aren't subbed doesn't mean they're not supporting the game through the crown store.
Well, at least someone who can appreciate the value of the crafting bag like I do.
I don't have a problem with it being unlocked in the crown store just price it accordingly 5000 to 10,000 crowns
I can fully agree with that.
Somewhere near the higher end of that price rangeEdited by Towerdragon on June 25, 2016 4:38PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Towerdragon wrote: »Towerdragon wrote: »I'm a subscriber, and I've always subbed during the times I'm actually playing. If I find myself not logging in for a few weeks in a row I'll unsub.
That being said, to call the crafting bags just an optional perk is a gross misrepresentation of the actual in game experience. The sheer time saving that it brings is insane, not to mention all of the gold a new player will save on immediate inventory/bank upgrades. On top of that, someone with the crafting bag is automatically better off as a crafter for sheer volume of mats gathered. I've turned on autoloot for the first time since the game came out. I could feed an army with all the provisioning mats I have rolling in now. I pick up nodes I don't even need because I have a black hole to toss it all in.
If the crafting bag was available any other way I would agree with the sentiment. Doesn't need to be free, but there should most definitely be a way to unlock it separately in the crown store. Just because people aren't subbed doesn't mean they're not supporting the game through the crown store.
Well, at least someone who can appreciate the value of the crafting bag like I do.
I don't have a problem with it being unlocked in the crown store just price it accordingly 5000 to 10,000 crowns
I can fully agree with that.
Somewhere near the higher end of that price range
That would cost about the same as a 6-months sub then - what is the point in buying it then?1 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭(This comment is directed to no one in particular - the eventual use of "you" is in the general sense)
It is not about the amount of money an individual pays, although I have a hard time believing Crown Purchasers that say they spend more overall than a subscriber but still won't subscribe.
It is about having a constant income. ZOS and their investors prefer having subscribers, because it is a constant income that varies less than individual crown purchases.
Have you ever subscribed to anything? Like, say, a magazine? They usually have prizes and special edition for subscribers that are not available to that person that goes to the journal stand and buy it every month. The objective is to attract subscribers, because subscribers are the preferred costumers.
I think the fact that they keep offering more benefits to try to make more people to subscribe makes it obvious. Subscription is the desired model - they merely introduced another way to still make money out of people that do not want to subscribe, because having people who sometimes spend money in the game is still better than them not playing (and therefore not spending) at all.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.0 -
Kalifas✭✭✭
Even the meatiest DLCs Orsinium and Imperial City don't cost 5-10k crowns. A more fair price would be 2-4k crowns.Towerdragon wrote: »
I don't have a problem with it being unlocked in the crown store just price it accordingly 5000 to 10,000 crowns
But if I could access crafting bags and the infinite dye system and not have to fiddle with the crown store everytime I want to change something. I would pay that crazy amount. A continuous sub model for 12 months a year doesn't work for me because I like playing other games and I don't think any game is worth 180 dollars a year. A game would have to have 100 hours of new content every 4 months and run silky smooth with almost no bugs or performance issues to become that way for me.An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!0
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