Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.

Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.

I thought people subscribed for the free access to dlc the free crowns and the xp boost and that the bag and dyes were new features that had nothing to do with subs until zos chose to make them sub only which just seems like an attempt to get more subscribers then anything else(like giving more stuff to current subscribers).

personally I don't subscribe but also have no interest in the craft bag or costume dyes(because to me the costumes look terrible anyway) so I don't care and am not biased either way but your post seems fairly condescending to non-subscribers so it sounds like your on a "high horse"(as you put it) as well, no offence or anything intended

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.

Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.

If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?

You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".


Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.


Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.

Transairion wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.

Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.

If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?

You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".


Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.

Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.

And therein lies the dilemma for ZOS... they WANT more subscribers... so to get more, they are increasing the incentives for subscribing. When a company does a budget every year, they have to estimate what their future revenue is... and with subscribers, they have a more solid foundation to plan for the future... and yes, the bean counters take into consideration the ebb and flow of subscriptions. However, they cannot do a very good job of creating a budget based upon complete speculation, which is what they have to do with non-subscribers. Thus, it is a better for ZOS to have more subscribers, not less... and if people want to leave the game because they don't get these incentives, then so be it; however, I, and I'm sure ZOS as well, expect a lot more people will subscribe then leave.

Transairion wrote: »

Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.

Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.

A subscriber is garunteed money to zos. For a set period of time they are garunteed a fee. A non subscriber is under no obligation to buy anything.

So... providing things that people want that can only be had while a subscription is active is a decent way to make people subscribe. If it was just thrown on the store for people to one off purchase then there is no incentive to keep paying.

Sure they get a small payment. But not say 6 times that they get from someone with a 6 month subscription who is probably buying the same amount of *** from the store over the term of thier subscription aswel as any non subscriber in the same period.

I would like there to be more incentives like the bag for subscribers. But imagine the rage born out of this sense of entitlement that is so common at the moment.

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

So I would like to explain you that many of us, non ESO subscribers, give ZOS much more money than only your subscribtion fees by purchasing a lot of crown packs. There are two models of providing financial support for the game: the subscription and the purchase of crown packs. People who spend their money on crown packs (usually much more money than ESO Plus members) also deserve some benefits cause they contribute to the development of the game even more.

This is simply not true, see the prior threads on craft bags, use the search feature. One poster broke it down. I can tell you as a subscriber I have spent over 15 a month on crowns

Lol I know that there are ESO Plus members who also buy the crown packs separately, but there are a lot of subscribers who spend their money only on the fee, but they get much more benefits than people (non subscribers) who spend more money on crowns.

Why can't we all just drop our arms and hug?

This is what I believe the OP means about sub based makes more revenue. After running through the numbers(not exact but very close) I have come up with this. For the subscription based if you just did that bought no crowns you would spend around $105.00 USD (before taxes) if you spent the 6.3 aka 7 months required to sub to gain all of the dlcs and only buying the dlc. Now if you purchase the 5500 crown pack(correct me if I am wrong) last time I bought one it was $44.99(but I will just incase round it up to $50) to buy 2 sets of crown packs at $50 you will spend $100 USD and earn 11,000 crowns.

All the dlc Imperial city=2500 crowns, orisinium=3000 crowns, thieves guild=2000 crowns, and DB=2000 crowns total up to 9500 crowns. when you buy the 5500 crown pack 2x you will spend $100 USD to get all the dlc you will have 1100 crowns and have a spare 1500 crowns to use on whatever you like. When you buy a sub for 7 months(provided you don't buy anything with crowns except dlc) you will earn 10500 crowns and have a spare 1000 crowns. The sub makes you pay a little more and you get less crowns than buying the dlc outright. It also takes time.

So in that aspect yes subbing makes more money than buying the dlc outright. However, some people who buy the dlc via crowns wait for deals/sales on the crown packs. Then there are the other people who like myself want more than just the dlc and buy the crowns for them. it is all speculation as to who spends more the subscribers or the people who buy the dlc outright.

I think this is what the OP meant by eso+ members keep the game going. But then again maybe I am the only one who would actually go and calculate it all and put this together.

Transairion wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.

Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.

If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?

You're going to have to break it down for me, since I can't find the leap of logic you took to link entitled payment for services rendered to "I am a sub and I therefore pay for everything, whorship me!".


Better analogy is if the boss fires 25% of workers, the company probably won't collapse. That's called a minority.


Subscribers aren't the majority by leaps and bounds.

There is a forum poll that says otherwise

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274601/with-new-perks-being-added-to-eso-plus-members-how-many-of-us-have-subscribed-and-why/p1

Lightninvash wrote: »

This is what I believe the OP means about sub based makes more revenue. After running through the numbers(not exact but very close) I have come up with this. For the subscription based if you just did that bought no crowns you would spend around $105.00 USD (before taxes) if you spent the 6.3 aka 7 months required to sub to gain all of the dlcs and only buying the dlc. Now if you purchase the 5500 crown pack(correct me if I am wrong) last time I bought one it was $44.99(but I will just incase round it up to $50) to buy 2 sets of crown packs at $50 you will spend $100 USD and earn 11,000 crowns.

All the dlc Imperial city=2500 crowns, orisinium=3000 crowns, thieves guild=2000 crowns, and DB=2000 crowns total up to 9500 crowns. when you buy the 5500 crown pack 2x you will spend $100 USD to get all the dlc and have a spare 1500 crowns to use on whatever you like. When you buy a sub for 7 months(provided you don't buy anything with crowns except dlc) you will earn 10500 crowns and have a spare 1000 crowns. The sub makes you pay a little more and you get less crowns than buying the dlc outright. It also takes time.

So in that aspect yes subbing makes more money than buying the dlc outright. However, some people who buy the dlc via crowns wait for deals/sales on the crown packs. Then there are the other people who like myself want more than just the dlc and buy the crowns for them. it is all speculation as to who spends more the subscribers or the people who buy the dlc outright.

I think this is what the OP meant by eso+ members keep the game going. But then again maybe I am the only one who would actually go and calculate it all and put this together.

@Lightninvash yeah it's $39.99 usd for the 5500 crown pack, so your math still ends showing up the same way, but purchasing crowns is just slightly cheaper than you have shown.

Really, I don't think we can know who spends more money. I bet there are folks who prefer to buy dlc etc. That spend more than subscribers, but there's also subscribers like myself that sub plus buy crown packs... so some subs spend more that dlc purchasers.

You really can't get "everything" the game has to offer without paying both ways. Look at (what we know about) the style parlour. Everything I saw on there must be purchased via crowns and as a subscriber I need to spend more money on top of my sub, even though subscription is my preferred payment method. That's fine and dandy, I just figured it's interesting to mention the game does seem to want you to use both payment methods simultaneously.

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.

Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.

If your boss told you he was cutting your pay by 25% starting tomorrow, how would you react?

You suck it up and work for 25% less. If he is cutting your wage, i would wager there aren't jobs out there for you to go to

Transairion wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Funny line of thinking, when it was the whole concept of a Subscriber-only ESO that had to be scrapped for ESO to survive at all and the introduction of the Crown Store.

Don't kid yourself, subscriber payment probably makes up only 25% of ESO's revenue if even that. Crown Store is where almost all the money comes from since it's introduction.

A subscriber is garunteed money to zos. For a set period of time they are garunteed a fee. A non subscriber is under no obligation to buy anything.

So... providing things that people want that can only be had while a subscription is active is a decent way to make people subscribe. If it was just thrown on the store for people to one off purchase then there is no incentive to keep paying.

Sure they get a small payment. But not say 6 times that they get from someone with a 6 month subscription who is probably buying the same amount of *** from the store over the term of thier subscription aswel as any non subscriber in the same period.

I would like there to be more incentives like the bag for subscribers. But imagine the rage born out of this sense of entitlement that is so common at the moment.

I get what you're trying to say, but it's just not really too. Sure, Zenimax gets some money from subs but they also LOSE money because subs get free crowns... if you get free crowns, you're not BUYING crowns (unless your spending is through the roof, in which case it really doesn't matter if they're a sub or not).

A "money-smart" sub doesn't buy crowns at all, they just use their allowance to get what they want. Non-subs don't get an allowance so they pay for everything from a point of 0, which ends up basically being all profit for Zeni.


Non sub money = + for Zeni

Sub money = + for Zeni for sub free, - to Zeni for free crowns


Sub fee is reliable to track, but I don't think Zeni has to worry about Crown store suddenly having a massive decline in purchases any time soon.

you should read my previous post @Transairion about the differences between sub costs and crown store cost on buying dlc. Now it is all about just buying dlc and not about other crown items that people purchase as well as the DLC. But running the numbers just looking at the DLC the subscribers spend more money(not buying crown packs just subscribing) than people who buy the crowns outright. It is a small amount but it is still there.

But I get where everyone is coming from since this thread is full of speculation because of how can we really know that subscribers are buying additional crown packs or not. Or if the people buying the lion share of the crown packs do they sub now and then for the added perks. Though it does lead into an interesting debate to say the least.

There is a forum poll that says otherwise

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274601/with-new-perks-being-added-to-eso-plus-members-how-many-of-us-have-subscribed-and-why/p1

Sorry if I take a forum poll less than a day old and that only takes in account general discussion posters with a grain of salt.


The majority of the playerbase don't even visit the forum, let alone general discussion, they're sitting in the game. With ESO's "forum code" system where you can't even sign up on your own, I'd wager participation is even less than most MMO's forum.


But yeah, sure, ESO went Buy to Play because it had enough subs to keep existing as sub-only. Whatever helps you sleep at night...