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Why the Hardcore Gamer Should Not Be Forgotten
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Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players....
No it wouldn't.
So many of the self-proclaimed "hardcore" players would go to the Casual server to flex their e-peens, the Hardcore server would be basically deserted.
Then you have no idea how a true hardcore players think. Perhaps that's how you think, but most Hardcore players look for challenges for bragging rights. They don't go around looking for the easiest thing to do.
And being a"hardcore", really has nothing to do with skill, but rather that the player plays the game a lot more than the average "Casual" person.Motto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.2 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You make some extreme assumptions about what the majority of players want based on how many hours per day they've played.
From the description above, it sounds like your entire concept is simply about desiring more difficult PVE content.
There are some who play lots of hours in PVP that find PVE content boring and just want to get through it as quick and easy as possible. There are also many who might play lot and then play very little for months at a time.
If there is a significant number who feel instanced dungeons are too easy, wouldn't implementing some sort of optional difficulty mode be preferable to further splitting up the population from the current 6 servers to 12?
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Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.
You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority. Sorry if that includes you, but it stands true. Deal with it. Suggesting something that won't happen is futile, and it is therefore the reason why I didn't do that. I'm addressing where and how the game remains successful, and it is not with casual players.
I highly disagree. This game is extremely successful amongst casual players.
Based on what?
Based on the fact that hundreds of thousands of casual players play this game?
Really? That's your rebuttal?
Motto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players....
No it wouldn't.
So many of the self-proclaimed "hardcore" players would go to the Casual server to flex their e-peens, the Hardcore server would be basically deserted.
Then you have no idea how a true hardcore players think. Perhaps that's how you think, but most Hardcore players look for challenges for bragging rights. They don't go around looking for the easiest thing to do.
And being a"hardcore", really has nothing to do with skill, but rather that the player plays the game a lot more than the average "Casual" person.
By your terms then I am a hardcore casual.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »
So why are casuals being catered to, instead? Is this not a conflict of interest? Even if the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones, the earning from such players couldn't possibly be more lucrative. The Hardcore are the ones keeping the game alive. The extremely easy combat system is not sating the Hardcore's desire for a challenge.
Well... if ZoS is in it for the money... then there is only one reason why "casuals" are being catered to.
Crown store items.....how many are aimed at casual/vs how many are aimed at hardcore?Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »I really think people are reading far too much into Matt Firor's comments in the E3 article. No where did he say "Hardcore players are teh lame, casuals are awesome!!!1!1" Case in point, what are we getting in the next patch?
- Two new dungeons that, if the IC dungeons are any indicator, will have very difficult veteran modes, at least to start (for the hardcore folks).
- Scaling up of all the remaining underleveled endgame activities (for the hardcore folks again).
- NO overland, one-shot, OMG faceroll carebear zone or quests (sorry casuals!).
- Character customization / race change (really everyone wants this, but the race change is for hardcore min-maxers).
Update 11 is the closest thing we've had to a hardcore-centric update since Craglorn, or maybe IC. Yet there is almost no end to the "Oh noes ZOS doesn't love me because I play every day!" rhetoric. *sigh*
What makes you think I even read the article you just mentioned? I have no idea what you're speaking of.
Okay, enlighten us. Why are you salty about the whole causal vs hardcore thing? Were you aware that the next update is mostly hardcore-friendly? What exactly is your problem?
As stated by many before me, "the game has become extremely easy". The new Gold Coast is too easy. Where did the challenge go? So I wanted to make a point what separate servers, meant for a particular player base, would look like.Motto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.0 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »I really think people are reading far too much into Matt Firor's comments in the E3 article. No where did he say "Hardcore players are teh lame, casuals are awesome!!!1!1" Case in point, what are we getting in the next patch?- Two new dungeons that, if the IC dungeons are any indicator, will have very difficult veteran modes, at least to start (for the hardcore folks).
- Scaling up of all the remaining underleveled endgame activities (for the hardcore folks again).
- NO overland, one-shot, OMG faceroll carebear zone or quests (sorry casuals!).
- Character customization / race change (really everyone wants this, but the race change is for hardcore min-maxers).
Update 11 is the closest thing we've had to a hardcore-centric update since Craglorn, or maybe IC. Yet there is almost no end to the "Oh noes ZOS doesn't love me because I play every day!" rhetoric. *sigh*
What makes you think I even read the article you just mentioned? I have no idea what you're speaking of.
Okay, enlighten us. Why are you salty about the whole causal vs hardcore thing? Were you aware that the next update is mostly hardcore-friendly? What exactly is your problem?
As stated by many before me, "the game has become extremely easy". The new Gold Coast is too easy. Where did the challenge go? So I wanted to make a point what separate servers, meant for a particular player base, would look like.
So again, were you aware that the next update is mostly hardcore-friendly? Does it not make sense for ZOS to cater to both crowds and maximize their profits?@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »No. One community is better than lots of little communities that cater to special interests.Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »I'm not suggesting a separation of communities. So why is that part of of the OP even being replied to?
And how is separate servers NOT a separation?
That part of the OP was quite specific, and crucial to the point that @lordrichter was making.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »It is my belief that if, Zen, were to have separate servers ... one identified for casual players and newbs, and the other for hardcore players, and constants.
Disclaimer: This thread is not to criticize why people are casuals or hardcore. It's for the purpose of making the advantages and disadvantages to ESO's survival painfully obvious. No one has to cop a plea about how they have a life and better things to do than play ESO all day, otherwise you're just making my point - you are a casual, and not much money can be made off of you. People don't normally invest heavily in to something their not going to do regularly - not to say that there are not casuals that see the occasional vanity item and grab it up immediately, but it's not common.
Casual Server: Would consist of npc damage being low and handicaps being minor for pc; and the server would be less populated. There would be a greater failure rate for clearing dungeons and trials. Purchases from the crown store would be low in numbers, because most of the casuals barely know how to use the store, regardless of its simplicity. There would also be less arguing, and less egos involved.
Among my casual playing friends, I find that they play on the average of 1 to two hours, slowly, and not everyday. I am able to get very little done with these types of players, and to be honest, it's annoying. That would be the casual server. There would be threads of casual players that are posting, complaining that the casual server is dead, and so they decided to make a new character on the hardcore server, but now they feel overwhelmed by the increased threats - can someone help them?
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players, high difficulty, high damage, heavy pvp, a greater success rate for clearing dungeons and trials, more purchases from the Crown Store, a larger server population that's not huge, but would be more filled and bustling. There would be more conflicts among clashing player personalities. Perhaps egos making some player's experience unpleasant. Nevertheless, these can be gotten around. There would still be more beneficial outlooks that the hardcore server would offer. Such an atmosphere is what keeps players coming back for more.
So why are casuals being catered to, instead? Is this not a conflict of interest? Even if the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones, the earning from such players couldn't possibly be more lucrative. The Hardcore are the ones keeping the game alive. The extremely easy combat system is not sating the Hardcore's desire for a challenge.
I'm sure, Zen, is aware of how lop-sided and devastating dividing these two player-style types would be to ESO, and so here we are sharing the Tamriel world. I just think, Zen, should be careful just how far they go with their nerfing of this non-challenging world.
What a terrible idea. This is just ..... not good.lordrichter wrote: »No. One community is better than lots of little communities that cater to special interests.
... And this ^^ is why.
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ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players....
No it wouldn't.
So many of the self-proclaimed "hardcore" players would go to the Casual server to flex their e-peens, the Hardcore server would be basically deserted.
Then you have no idea how a true hardcore players think. Perhaps that's how you think, but most Hardcore players look for challenges for bragging rights. They don't go around looking for the easiest thing to do.
And being a"hardcore", really has nothing to do with skill, but rather that the player plays the game a lot more than the average "Casual" person.
#notallhardcores
Please. If your definition of "hardcore" doesn't include the people who get their jollies rolling "scrubs" and putting it on YouTube, then that server would be even more deserted than I'd expect.
Your entire post, despite being disclaimed as not being critical of casuals, revolves around the concept that Hardcore players are better at the game than casual players. Your previous sentence "Hardcore players look for challenges and bragging rights" implies that you believe hardcores are more skilled at the game. Everything you've said contradicts your statement that being "hardcore" has nothing to do with skill.
I've never seen anyone call anyone else "hardcore;" you know that?
You never see, "Oh, man, you know Bob? Dude is hardcore." It's always self-labelling.
I wonder why that is."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?5 -
Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
You keep saying that, and I'm pretty sure it's still completely wrong.Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Like I stated before, the large portion of the money is not really coming from the casual players. How can that be possible?
Because crown store items are mostly cosmetic crap that provides no functional advantage, I would bet a month's salary that the vast majority of the crown store sales come from the players you would call casuals. They are the ones more likely to go nuts over a new mount or pet, and toss money at "convenience" items like the banker and stuff that gives them more out of their limited playtime.
Also, just for fun, since you seem to like arguments based on stereotypes, I can even make one for this (please note, this is for illustrative purposes only, and is not meant to be taken seriously, or to reflect my actual views):
Hardcore gamers are mostly kids and people with no jobs that live in basements and have plenty of time to play ESO all day long. Casuals are mostly adults and people with real-life responsibilities that have less time to play. Obviously, the casuals are the ones who have jobs and access to disposable income, and therefore have far more money to spend in the crown store than the kids who live in their moms' basements.
Seriously though, there's one main reason why game developers don't like to try to cater to the "hardcore" players: They are typically impossible to please.
Look at things like VMA. There's an example of content that probably less than 10% of the playerbase can even complete. Yet how many times do you see posts where someone is complaining (about VMA) that "Oh, it's such a grind. It's not even a challenge anymore. We need something new." Or if not that, things like, "The challenge is all just stupid mechanics. It's not REAL challenge, it's just lazy." Constant complaining about how "easy" something that most of the players of this game will likely never complete.
Yet look at how many people get excited when the release a cool-looking new mount? You know who the vast majority of those people are? Casuals.
Given all this, who would YOU cater to, if you wanted to make money?
LMAO -
One of my friends is actually rich in the real world, and used to play this game non-stop. His mother's basement was nowhere to be found.
I take care of my children, do my job, do volunteer work at a community center four days in a week, have two hour conversations with my wife, mow my lawn, read, write songs, watch Netflix, sleep, eat, do research on current events, and drive for a total of two hours everyday. And I play everyday, have a total of 10 characters, 5 of them are veteran ranked, 3 are maxed out. So I'm considered a hardcore player.
Oh, and in case you didn't understand all that. I live in my own house. So I'll just continue to laugh at your narrow-minded a**. And people think I stereotype -LOL.Edited by Ethromelb14_ESO on June 24, 2016 6:28PMMotto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.3 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »This thread just screams stereotype. Not all casual gamers are skillless noobs... It would also discriminate further against the players to make seperate servers like this. In fact, a simpler and less offensive way to suggest this is to request different servers of different difficulty, but I know it won't happen.
You're already taking my words out of context. I never said every casual is a newb. I'm speaking of the majority.
How the hell would you know that the "majority" of casuals are "newbs?" This is sickening elitism at its worst.
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »It is my belief that if, Zen, were to have separate servers ... one identified for casual players and newbs, and the other for hardcore players, and constants.
Disclaimer: This thread is not to criticize why people are casuals or hardcore. It's for the purpose of making the advantages and disadvantages to ESO's survival painfully obvious. No one has to cop a plea about how they have a life and better things to do than play ESO all day, otherwise you're just making my point - you are a casual, and not much money can be made off of you. People don't normally invest heavily in to something their not going to do regularly - not to say that there are not casuals that see the occasional vanity item and grab it up immediately, but it's not common.
Casual Server: Would consist of npc damage being low and handicaps being minor for pc; and the server would be less populated. There would be a greater failure rate for clearing dungeons and trials. Purchases from the crown store would be low in numbers, because most of the casuals barely know how to use the store, regardless of its simplicity. There would also be less arguing, and less egos involved.
Among my casual playing friends, I find that they play on the average of 1 to two hours, slowly, and not everyday. I am able to get very little done with these types of players, and to be honest, it's annoying. That would be the casual server. There would be threads of casual players that are posting, complaining that the casual server is dead, and so they decided to make a new character on the hardcore server, but now they feel overwhelmed by the increased threats - can someone help them?
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players, high difficulty, high damage, heavy pvp, a greater success rate for clearing dungeons and trials, more purchases from the Crown Store, a larger server population that's not huge, but would be more filled and bustling. There would be more conflicts among clashing player personalities. Perhaps egos making some player's experience unpleasant. Nevertheless, these can be gotten around. There would still be more beneficial outlooks that the hardcore server would offer. Such an atmosphere is what keeps players coming back for more.
So why are casuals being catered to, instead? Is this not a conflict of interest? Even if the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones, the earning from such players couldn't possibly be more lucrative. The Hardcore are the ones keeping the game alive. The extremely easy combat system is not sating the Hardcore's desire for a challenge.
I'm sure, Zen, is aware of how lop-sided and devastating dividing these two player-style types would be to ESO, and so here we are sharing the Tamriel world. I just think, Zen, should be careful just how far they go with their nerfing of this non-challenging world.
Pretty simple why - your perception about the relation between casual and hardcore gamers is wrong - there are by far more casual players than there would be hardcore gamers - why?- because people tend to have a life and responsibilities, they cannot play all day long or most of their spare time, because it is filled with family life and chores, which have to be done.
And those having a life are more likely to pay for a subscription, so that they have all the comfort when they can actually play. So they are more of a steady income for ZOS than hardcore gamers, which are mainly a major drain on server performance, while casuals are not. Paying customers who do rarely play are more welcome than those, who play a lot while paying relatively less in relation to what they use.Edited by Lysette on June 24, 2016 6:43PM1 -
Ethromelb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players....
No it wouldn't.
So many of the self-proclaimed "hardcore" players would go to the Casual server to flex their e-peens, the Hardcore server would be basically deserted.
Then you have no idea how a true hardcore players think. Perhaps that's how you think, but most Hardcore players look for challenges for bragging rights. They don't go around looking for the easiest thing to do.
And being a"hardcore", really has nothing to do with skill, but rather that the player plays the game a lot more than the average "Casual" person.
#notallhardcores
Please. If your definition of "hardcore" doesn't include the people who get their jollies rolling "scrubs" and putting it on YouTube, then that server would be even more deserted than I'd expect.
Your entire post, despite being disclaimed as not being critical of casuals, revolves around the concept that Hardcore players are better at the game than casual players. Your previous sentence "Hardcore players look for challenges and bragging rights" implies that you believe hardcores are more skilled at the game. Everything you've said contradicts your statement that being "hardcore" has nothing to do with skill.
I've never seen anyone call anyone else "hardcore;" you know that?
You never see, "Oh, man, you know Bob? Dude is hardcore." It's always self-labelling.
I wonder why that is.
Hardcore players ARE typically more skilled at the games they play. You can play a lot and still suck. So that possibility is still there. That would be like saying a boxer that trains everyday can't lose a boxing match, and that's just foolish thinking. I'm saying those devoted to playing working at anything - in this case, ESO - are usually rewarded with better turn of results for their knowledge of the game.
I have assisted many players with improving their characters, and have made a note of how much effort they put forth to becoming a better player. One of my friends complains or bi**ches, however you want to look at, about wiping and being the weak-link, but refuses to finish building one P because he's too busy always starting over with a new one. Is he hardcore because he plays almost every day? No. He would be hardcore if he could overcome the tough content in the game and played every day, and was capable of helping others do the same. So there is a criteria.
Those people that post on Youtube about how to make better builds and statistically record the numbers ... those are hardcore players.Motto: Make deceivers believers.
Strength of character is not a physical thing. -EWalking a mile in someone else's shoes, has nothing to do with the path taken. -E
An accusation of elitism, is an indirect recognition of one's own inferiority. -E
The best way to prove someone wrong, is to do better yourself. -E
I keep forgetting to remember to get a photographic memory.0 -
Francis_Toliver✭✭✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »It is my belief that if, Zen, were to have separate servers ... one identified for casual players and newbs, and the other for hardcore players, and constants.
Disclaimer: This thread is not to criticize why people are casuals or hardcore. It's for the purpose of making the advantages and disadvantages to ESO's survival painfully obvious. No one has to cop a plea about how they have a life and better things to do than play ESO all day, otherwise you're just making my point - you are a casual, and not much money can be made off of you. People don't normally invest heavily in to something their not going to do regularly - not to say that there are not casuals that see the occasional vanity item and grab it up immediately, but it's not common.
Casual Server: Would consist of npc damage being low and handicaps being minor for pc; and the server would be less populated. There would be a greater failure rate for clearing dungeons and trials. Purchases from the crown store would be low in numbers, because most of the casuals barely know how to use the store, regardless of its simplicity. There would also be less arguing, and less egos involved.
Among my casual playing friends, I find that they play on the average of 1 to two hours, slowly, and not everyday. I am able to get very little done with these types of players, and to be honest, it's annoying. That would be the casual server. There would be threads of casual players that are posting, complaining that the casual server is dead, and so they decided to make a new character on the hardcore server, but now they feel overwhelmed by the increased threats - can someone help them?
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players, high difficulty, high damage, heavy pvp, a greater success rate for clearing dungeons and trials, more purchases from the Crown Store, a larger server population that's not huge, but would be more filled and bustling. There would be more conflicts among clashing player personalities. Perhaps egos making some player's experience unpleasant. Nevertheless, these can be gotten around. There would still be more beneficial outlooks that the hardcore server would offer. Such an atmosphere is what keeps players coming back for more.
So why are casuals being catered to, instead? Is this not a conflict of interest? Even if the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones, the earning from such players couldn't possibly be more lucrative. The Hardcore are the ones keeping the game alive. The extremely easy combat system is not sating the Hardcore's desire for a challenge.
I'm sure, Zen, is aware of how lop-sided and devastating dividing these two player-style types would be to ESO, and so here we are sharing the Tamriel world. I just think, Zen, should be careful just how far they go with their nerfing of this non-challenging world.
The problem with your argument, like most emotional arguments, is it is based on multiple fallacies.
1.) that "not much money can be made" off of casual gamers.
2.) that hardcore gamers spend money on the game.
3.) that a hardcore server would be more populated.
4.) that hardcore players are "keeping the game alive".
Please show your sources for these erroneous ideas. Where do you get this data. If you can't show your sources then your statements are simply the opinion of a "hardcore" player that wants what he/she wants. The fact that you say casual gamers are too stupid to even know how to use the crown store shows that your bias is not based in fact, but in what you want.
Here is what the evidence shows. This is based on the assumption that Zenimax DOES have the data to follow who spends money on the game and how, as well as on population trends;
Hardcore/pvp gamers make up a minute percentage of the client base for ESO. They do not spend enough money on the game to make catering to them worthwhile. They are the not Keeping the game alive. They are the most likely to complain and the least likely to express appreciation for the work that the Devs do.
Casual gamers and Roleplayers spend more, have a larger population and are the future of ESO.
That is why the game developers (who have the data at hand to see these things) have focused on the things they have. Why would they produce DLC after DLC over a period of two years for the casual/roleplaying population if it were not making them money? How would they still be financially viable? Why is the number Cyrodiiil campaigns smaller while the number of "roleplaying" zones larger?
So, unless you have some viable sources for your foolish assumptions, the devs (and really the rest of us) are probably simply going to continue to think you're doing what you're doing, which is complaining because you want something that you are unlikely to get.Edited by Francis_Toliver on June 24, 2016 6:58PM10 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Francis_Toliver wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »It is my belief that if, Zen, were to have separate servers ... one identified for casual players and newbs, and the other for hardcore players, and constants.
Disclaimer: This thread is not to criticize why people are casuals or hardcore. It's for the purpose of making the advantages and disadvantages to ESO's survival painfully obvious. No one has to cop a plea about how they have a life and better things to do than play ESO all day, otherwise you're just making my point - you are a casual, and not much money can be made off of you. People don't normally invest heavily in to something their not going to do regularly - not to say that there are not casuals that see the occasional vanity item and grab it up immediately, but it's not common.
Casual Server: Would consist of npc damage being low and handicaps being minor for pc; and the server would be less populated. There would be a greater failure rate for clearing dungeons and trials. Purchases from the crown store would be low in numbers, because most of the casuals barely know how to use the store, regardless of its simplicity. There would also be less arguing, and less egos involved.
Among my casual playing friends, I find that they play on the average of 1 to two hours, slowly, and not everyday. I am able to get very little done with these types of players, and to be honest, it's annoying. That would be the casual server. There would be threads of casual players that are posting, complaining that the casual server is dead, and so they decided to make a new character on the hardcore server, but now they feel overwhelmed by the increased threats - can someone help them?
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players, high difficulty, high damage, heavy pvp, a greater success rate for clearing dungeons and trials, more purchases from the Crown Store, a larger server population that's not huge, but would be more filled and bustling. There would be more conflicts among clashing player personalities. Perhaps egos making some player's experience unpleasant. Nevertheless, these can be gotten around. There would still be more beneficial outlooks that the hardcore server would offer. Such an atmosphere is what keeps players coming back for more.
So why are casuals being catered to, instead? Is this not a conflict of interest? Even if the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones, the earning from such players couldn't possibly be more lucrative. The Hardcore are the ones keeping the game alive. The extremely easy combat system is not sating the Hardcore's desire for a challenge.
I'm sure, Zen, is aware of how lop-sided and devastating dividing these two player-style types would be to ESO, and so here we are sharing the Tamriel world. I just think, Zen, should be careful just how far they go with their nerfing of this non-challenging world.
The problem with your argument, like most emotional arguments, is it is based on multiple fallacies.
1.) that "not much money can be made" off of casual games.
2.) that hardcore games spend money on the game.
3.) that a hard core server would be more populated.
4.) that hard core players are "keeping the game alive".
Please show your sources for these erroneous ideas. Where do you get this data. If you can't show your sources then your statements are simply the opinion of a "hardcore" player that wants what he/she wants. The fact that you say casual gamers are too stupid to even know how to use the crown store shows that your bias is not based in fact, but in what you want.
Here is what the evidence shows. This is based on the assumption that Zenimax DOES have the data to follow who spends money on the game and how as well as on population trends;
Hardcore/pvp gamers make up a minute percentage of the client base for ESO. They do not spend enough money on the game to make catering to them worthwhile. They are the not Keeping the game alive. They are the most likely to complain and the least likely to express appreciation for the work that the Devs do.
Casual gamers and Roleplayers spend more, have a larger population and are the future of ESO.
That is why the game developers (who have the data at hand to see these things) have focused on the things they have. Why would they produce DLC after DLC over a period of two years for the casual/roleplaying population if it were not making them money? How would they still be financially viable? Why is the number Cyrodiiil campaigns smaller while the number of "roleplaying" zones larger?
So, unless you have some viable sources for your foolish assumptions, the devs (and really the rest of us) are probably simply going to continue to think you're doing what you're doing, which is complaining because you want something that you are unlikely to get.
You put it by far better than I did - kudos.1 -
Kalifas✭✭✭I think a better way to do something like this would be to have 3 different versions of all content and zones in this game.
Normal:- For players who want less stress via difficulty
- For players who like the ability to solo or group but can solo about everything with some clever play
- Always on enlightenment
- Enemies do less damage and have less health, not brain fart easy but not too difficult
- For players who want more challenge but not crazy difficulty
- For players who enjoy grouping more, groups are more efficient but with very skilled play somethings are soloable
- Enlightenment works like it does now
- Works like veteran does now in terms of difficulty
Elite:- For players who want everything crazy difficult
- For players who want to group for everything, progression is impossible without groups
- Enlightenment works like it does now
- Enemies do big damage and have substantially more health
Player and gear checks when using grouping tool:
Normal:
There is no strict gear or dps checks, very easy to get groups
Veteran:
There is a mandatory minimum on gear and dps check, a little harder to get groups due to requirements
Elite:
There is a strict check, must have BiS and a high dps check, alot harder to get groups due to strict requirements
It would probably do more harm than in terms of making grouping easier. However, players would have less drama due to knowing requirements and not fueling anger due to mismatching goals.An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »Casual Server: There would be a greater failure rate for clearing dungeons and trials. Purchases from the crown store would be low in numbers, because most of the casuals barely know how to use the store, regardless of its simplicity.
Among my casual playing friends, I find that they play on the average of 1 to two hours, slowly, and not everyday. I am able to get very little done with these types of players, and to be honest, it's annoying.And being a"hardcore", really has nothing to do with skill, but rather that the player plays the game a lot more than the average "Casual" person.Hardcore players ARE typically more skilled at the games they play.One of my friends complains... about wiping and being the weak-link, but refuses to finish building one P because he's too busy always starting over with a new one. Is he hardcore because he plays almost every day? No.
You can see where I might be confused as to your point here.
So, is being "hardcore" about skill? Or time investment? A combination of both? Neither?
Is it just some ethereal, amorphous concept you've dreamed up to reinforce your non-present argument for server segregation, but not really segregation, but totally segregation?
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?7 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭Francis_Toliver wrote: »Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »It is my belief that if, Zen, were to have separate servers ... one identified for casual players and newbs, and the other for hardcore players, and constants.
Disclaimer: This thread is not to criticize why people are casuals or hardcore. It's for the purpose of making the advantages and disadvantages to ESO's survival painfully obvious. No one has to cop a plea about how they have a life and better things to do than play ESO all day, otherwise you're just making my point - you are a casual, and not much money can be made off of you. People don't normally invest heavily in to something their not going to do regularly - not to say that there are not casuals that see the occasional vanity item and grab it up immediately, but it's not common.
Casual Server: Would consist of npc damage being low and handicaps being minor for pc; and the server would be less populated. There would be a greater failure rate for clearing dungeons and trials. Purchases from the crown store would be low in numbers, because most of the casuals barely know how to use the store, regardless of its simplicity. There would also be less arguing, and less egos involved.
Among my casual playing friends, I find that they play on the average of 1 to two hours, slowly, and not everyday. I am able to get very little done with these types of players, and to be honest, it's annoying. That would be the casual server. There would be threads of casual players that are posting, complaining that the casual server is dead, and so they decided to make a new character on the hardcore server, but now they feel overwhelmed by the increased threats - can someone help them?
The Hardcore server: Would be filled with experienced players, high difficulty, high damage, heavy pvp, a greater success rate for clearing dungeons and trials, more purchases from the Crown Store, a larger server population that's not huge, but would be more filled and bustling. There would be more conflicts among clashing player personalities. Perhaps egos making some player's experience unpleasant. Nevertheless, these can be gotten around. There would still be more beneficial outlooks that the hardcore server would offer. Such an atmosphere is what keeps players coming back for more.
So why are casuals being catered to, instead? Is this not a conflict of interest? Even if the casual players outnumber the hardcore ones, the earning from such players couldn't possibly be more lucrative. The Hardcore are the ones keeping the game alive. The extremely easy combat system is not sating the Hardcore's desire for a challenge.
I'm sure, Zen, is aware of how lop-sided and devastating dividing these two player-style types would be to ESO, and so here we are sharing the Tamriel world. I just think, Zen, should be careful just how far they go with their nerfing of this non-challenging world.
The problem with your argument, like most emotional arguments, is it is based on multiple fallacies.
1.) that "not much money can be made" off of casual games.
2.) that hardcore games spend money on the game.
3.) that a hard core server would be more populated.
4.) that hard core players are "keeping the game alive".
Please show your sources for these erroneous ideas. Where do you get this data. If you can't show your sources then your statements are simply the opinion of a "hardcore" player that wants what he/she wants. The fact that you say casual gamers are too stupid to even know how to use the crown store shows that your bias is not based in fact, but in what you want.
Here is what the evidence shows. This is based on the assumption that Zenimax DOES have the data to follow who spends money on the game and how as well as on population trends;
Hardcore/pvp gamers make up a minute percentage of the client base for ESO. They do not spend enough money on the game to make catering to them worthwhile. They are the not Keeping the game alive. They are the most likely to complain and the least likely to express appreciation for the work that the Devs do.
Casual gamers and Roleplayers spend more, have a larger population and are the future of ESO.
That is why the game developers (who have the data at hand to see these things) have focused on the things they have. Why would they produce DLC after DLC over a period of two years for the casual/roleplaying population if it were not making them money? How would they still be financially viable? Why is the number Cyrodiiil campaigns smaller while the number of "roleplaying" zones larger?
So, unless you have some viable sources for your foolish assumptions, the devs (and really the rest of us) are probably simply going to continue to think you're doing what you're doing, which is complaining because you want something that you are unlikely to get.
*mic drop0 -
FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wish I was more hardcore at this game so I had something better to put on my resume. As of right now I am just a casual who plays the game a lot and can still play the more difficult content.
The fact is that the so called "casuals" make up the majority of the game. Now if ZOS is smart they will cater more to these "casuals" because they help the game thrive more than the minority of "hardcore" players. Yes I believe there should be more difficult content but not all the content needs to be difficult to be fun.Edited by FLuFFyxMuFFiN on June 24, 2016 6:57PM2 -
Imhotep71✭✭✭Wildstar went the hardcore or bust route....didnt work out so well.
Casuals vastly outnumber hardcore players. Its why MMOs always go this route. The casuals spend more money and generate more profit for the company.
As far as being surprised that ZOS cares about money. They are a for profit company, if they dont make money then they dont exist. They didnt make this game to make people happy.Ever dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight?0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The OP mentioned that the casual server wouldn't have open PVP he said only the hardcore server would.Your biased as hell most hardcore PVPers don't even gank people let alone go to a carebear server when most PVPers already believe 98% of PVE is already easy enough as is.So they would be on the Hard core server in this instance.There's so many reasons why the split-server idea would never actually pan out the way you are expecting, but I'll just mention the main one:
All the PvE casuals would want to play on the hardcore server to get carried, and all the PvP hardcore players would want to play on the casual server to grief and gank easy kills. It would be a mess.
As for why casuals are being catered to? They DO grossly outnumber the hardcore ones, and your view of which spends more money on crowns is likely completely backwards.1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »I wish I was more hardcore at this game so I had something better to put on my resume. As of right now I am just a casual who plays the game a lot and can still play the more difficult content.
Lucky you.
Being hardcore has nothing to do with skill, maybe.
It's all about time investment, possibly.
You're hardcore now, potentially!"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »I wish I was more hardcore at this game so I had something better to put on my resume. As of right now I am just a casual who plays the game a lot and can still play the more difficult content.
Lucky you.
Being hardcore has nothing to do with skill, maybe.
It's all about time investment, possibly.
You're hardcore now, potentially!
YAY! 1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »I wish I was more hardcore at this game so I had something better to put on my resume. As of right now I am just a casual who plays the game a lot and can still play the more difficult content.
Lucky you.
Being hardcore has nothing to do with skill, maybe.
It's all about time investment, possibly.
You're hardcore now, potentially!
YAY!
Who knows!?
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is elite with a player who has top gear and top skill and champion points - that is not a heroic deed, if he can do difficult content, that is to be expected. I would admire him, if he can do that with normal gear and courage, but not with elite gear and maxed out skill/champion points - there is nothing heroic in that.Edited by Lysette on June 24, 2016 7:02PM0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hardcore gamers are mostly kids and people with no jobs that live in basements and have plenty of time to play ESO all day long. Casuals are mostly adults and people with real-life responsibilities that have less time to play. Obviously, the casuals are the ones who have jobs and access to disposable income, and therefore have far more money to spend in the crown store than the kids who live in their moms' basements.
Nailed it!
1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Player and gear checks when using grouping tool:
Normal:
There is no strict gear or dps checks, very easy to get groups
Veteran:
There is a mandatory minimum on gear and dps check, a little harder to get groups due to requirements
Elite:
There is a strict check, must have BiS and a high dps check, alot harder to get groups due to strict requirements
It would probably do more harm than in terms of making grouping easier. However, players would have less drama due to knowing requirements and not fueling anger due to mismatching goals.
If ZOS ever instates a gear check or gear score or some other in-game metric to measure gear, or inspect another players' gear; that's the moment I cancel my sub and quit.
Dealt with enough of that *** in WoW, getting dropped from groups because my gloves weren't purple.
Of course I don't have the best gear, that's why I'm running the god damned dungeon you tools!
Gear does not make the player.
Plenty of players with crap gear who do just fine, and plenty of players with great gear who play like crap.Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 24, 2016 7:07PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?9 -
Kalifas✭✭✭In terms of investment
- Casual plays in shorts spurts, can be very skilled, picks and chooses what to learn about and usually despise grind.
- Midcore play when they want long or short, can be very skilled, picks and chooses what to learn about and the grind acceptance varies by player.
- Hardcore plays in long durations, can be very skilled, learns everything about the game, and doesn't mind grind as long as it is not over the top.
In terms of playstyle- Carebears don't care about learning or what is best, they just wanna have fun. Fun before everything else.
- Veterans care about learning fundamentals and some advanced stuff, they want to have some fun and some decent challenge.
- Elite want to learn everything about the game, the fun is the challenge, and whoever is not up to par is a detriment.
I know it's not a black and white there are different shades of grey in most people.An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!1
This discussion has been closed.