Why race change?

Ampnode · June 2016

Pay to win for changing a race, which has no impact on anyone else but the player changing it. Yeah, I'm gonna have to just disagree, to say the least. If there's a lack of diversity, then that's ZOS's fault for making all other races "inferior." It takes 6 and 1/2 hours to reach level 50, if you're going at a slow pace without XP pots. By now, the number of people wanting a race change have already, or are going to, just level up a new alt.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Unfortunately, the game changed.

It is not fair to punish people who choose a race when race didn't matter much, back when we had soft caps (oh how I miss them...). And I'm speaking as someone who does not plan on using this feature.

Oh, and race change is a thing in the game already. There is at least one NPC in this game that changes his race (a Dunmer in Greenshade). He temporarily becomes an Argonian by drinking a potion, but his objective is to become a Khajiit permanently.

No kidding, I miss soft caps as well, what I would give to go back.

I'm glad I am not alone. I think it was the most lore-accurate way to work with the racial passives. You would get a headstart if you choose a race that was naturally inclined towards a certain build, but with "work and dedication" (in gameplay terms, "the right gear and attributes"), anyone of any race could excel. I mean, Shalidor was a Nord!

What you're suggesting here is exactly the spirit of how an elder scrolls game should be. I agree with you @Abeille.

I also think @Autolycus makes good points in his post, and they mirror a lot of my feelings and concerns as well. I can see the utilitarian perspective in offering racial respecs, but my problem is the notion that ZoS profits from it. Changing race in many cases here represents a failing on their part, and it also represents a potential for abuse. All they need to do to create heavy pressure to change race is to make a particular popular race worthless (or much less valuable) and increase the value of another race. Voila, thousands of people migrate over and you can put that in the bank, not for bringing something to your customer but actually taking away. I find this sort of practice predatory, and while I'm not saying ZoS has done this yet, it is a slippery slope I really don't want them getting on.

Silver_Strider · June 2016

I have no reason to race change as I like Argonians and regardless of how bad ZOS made the passives, I will continue to play one.

I've completed every form of content this game has available with an Argonian (except vMoL but so has 95% of the population so whatever) so it isn't as though it's impossible to play them. Leaderboards mean very little to me as well as none of the Trial sets really appeal to me and are obtainable in vMoL anyway so I'll just need to try and clear that to get them, same thing with Maelstrom. (I've gotten on Leaderboards plenty of times in the past as well so it REALLY doesn't matter there either the majority of the time) The only area that I somewhat struggle in is PvP due to not dealing as much damage as other races but I get by well enough so it's not that large a deal to me either.

With how sh**ty balance is in this game and how the paradigm changes with each patch, I'd rather not deal with constantly trying to conform into a FOTM build and continue on my way.

IMO, race change isn't important. You can succeed with anything, it's just that people are either too lazy to try or are so obtuse about being competitive that they want everything advantage in the book in the hopes they can compete.

Autolycus · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Unfortunately, the game changed.

It is not fair to punish people who choose a race when race didn't matter much, back when we had soft caps (oh how I miss them...). And I'm speaking as someone who does not plan on using this feature.

Oh, and race change is a thing in the game already. There is at least one NPC in this game that changes his race (a Dunmer in Greenshade). He temporarily becomes an Argonian by drinking a potion, but his objective is to become a Khajiit permanently.

No kidding, I miss soft caps as well, what I would give to go back.

I'm glad I am not alone. I think it was the most lore-accurate way to work with the racial passives. You would get a headstart if you choose a race that was naturally inclined towards a certain build, but with "work and dedication" (in gameplay terms, "the right gear and attributes"), anyone of any race could excel. I mean, Shalidor was a Nord!

What you're suggesting here is exactly the spirit of how an elder scrolls game should be. I agree with you @Abeille.

I also think @Autolycus makes good points in his post, and they mirror a lot of my feelings and concerns as well. I can see the utilitarian perspective in offering racial respecs, but my problem is the notion that ZoS profits from it. Changing race in many cases here represents a failing on their part, and it also represents a potential for abuse. All they need to do to create heavy pressure to change race is to make a particular popular race worthless (or much less valuable) and increase the value of another race. Voila, thousands of people migrate over and you can put that in the bank, not for bringing something to your customer but actually taking away. I find this sort of practice predatory, and while I'm not saying ZoS has done this yet, it is a slippery slope I really don't want them getting on.

I think you really hit the head of the nail with this point. Perhaps the most controversial aspect of the proposed system is the use of real currency, rather than in-game currency. I too feel that the former could be considered predatory - after all, there are a lot of people who chose a race based on the former passives, that were subsequently changed, and not always to the liking of those players. There are a multitude of examples, but at least in this case, is it truly fair to "entice" or "force" someone into a race change as a result of developer choices, even if some of those choices are largely based on feedback from the community?

Perhaps a more universally-acceptable approach would be to have a unique questline that ultimately leads to a one-time race change. Maybe something like revisiting the Harborage, or paying a visit to Sheogorath, could ultimately lead to a lore-friendly way of changing race, and would not lay the cost on the player, but would instead be a unique aspect of the game itself. Of course, ZOS makes no additional money on this.

jello · June 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Has anyone else played other Elder Scrolls games? Why not let the important decisions such as picking your race be impactfull. Now we have the easy button race change. Come on ZOS. This game is on the way to be Pay to win. Now everyone will be High Elf for magicka and Red Guard for stam. Rip Diversity

Make better racials for the other races then. Or let race PURELY BE FOR LOOKS and let us pick the "racials".

This isnt a arcade game.

ShedsHisTail · June 2016

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Has anyone else played other Elder Scrolls games? Why not let the important decisions such as picking your race be impactfull. Now we have the easy button race change. Come on ZOS. This game is on the way to be Pay to win. Now everyone will be High Elf for magicka and Red Guard for stam. Rip Diversity

You could race change in other ES games too.
Just needed console commands.

Lord_Eomer · June 2016

This change is very damaging indeed..but let's see if they might do race passive changes/balance along with the base game patch .

PoseidonEvil · June 2016

I support this feature even though I probably won't even use it. It gives others who don't know what race they want to be a chance to figure their idea of the "perfect" build without having to make Alta and level them lol

Ravinsild · June 2016

Yeah and race changing/faction changing made WoW Pay to Win. Gotta have the Orc Bloodfury to be max DPS in PvE /eyeroll

americansteel · June 2016

because its a game, dont knock on others for wanting something you dont unless it brings imbalance like 2 specific classes!

if youre a nord or argonian in pvp prepare to struggle.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

americansteel wrote: »

because its a game, dont knock on others for wanting something you dont unless it brings imbalance like 2 specific classes!

if youre a nord or argonian in pvp prepare to struggle.

I don't pay them a sub to make certain races unfortunately weaker than others. Balance should be on their minds. I'm not sure what people are missing about this. We are paying for a service. You can argue that what I get is what I get, and you're right but if you factor in the points I've made above, should they become predatory in their practice, and manage to kill all the fun of the game with Crown Store nonsense, do you really think I'm going to continue subscribing to the game? Do you think others will stick with? A lot of MMO companies don't care. There's a reason Tod Howard didn't even want to get into the MMO game initially. He takes a lot of pride in his work, and it is as much about delivering a certain quality that the customer expects as it is about making a profit. His company is rewarded for that kind of work, and that is the kind of work that I respect. I don't expect perfection from people or businesses, but as a customer I appreciate when they TRY to bring quality to me for my money. When I work, I try to do the same for the people I work for, my customers/clients. Those people playing Argonians or Nords should not have to feel pressure to change their race simply because those races underperform. (I do think there are some good niche builds for them). The issue here is that some races should not be so universally useful while others are so niche. This is a problem that can and should be fixed and I've stated in a previous post how they could literally INSTANTLY resolve the issue. I'll restate it.

Attribute increases should be a static number defined by level. Recovery improvements should be a static number defined by level. What does this mean? This means that a Nord (with Robust trait) would have a strong static health regeneration no matter what he is doing, whether he has pushed up health recovery or health with his attribute points or not. The same goes for his health bonus. A Nord who pushes points into magic would have the same number of bonus health points as a Nord who put points into Health. This would open up the doors for a lot of build diversity and it would still leave some flavor differences. In the case of the Redguard, adrenaline rush would really only be useful on a mage if you are dual wielding/Shield/2H and happen to light attack for the regeneration and ultimate generation. I think this is the easiest solution ZoS can take that would factor in the spirit of the way Race worked and was balanced during the Overcharge era of the game.